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  • #10850
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Just re-watched “Vincent and the Doctor”. What a perfect episode. Everything about it works. Both Mrs Blenkinsop and I were wiping away a tear at the end. It also was perhaps the only episode in Nu Who to truly re-capture the spirit of the educational, historical episodes of Hartnell Who.

     

    #10867
    BadWulf @badwulf

    @denvaldron

    Personally, I like the notion of the Cushing Doctor as a real rather than fictional entity in the Doctor Who universe.Ergo, for these reasons, I think that my theory of the Cushing Doctor as a ‘suppressed Time Lord, under the thumb of Gallifrey and put into a Groundhog Day’ situation works better.
    This means no disrespect to you personally, or your ideas.  It’s just my take.  I hope that I have not offended.

    No offence taken! This is the place for bonkers theorising.
    I fully understand your reasoning, and you have very good reasons for disfavouring the “simulation” suggestion – in particular it doesn’t pack the emotional punch (in an RTD style way) that a groundhog day-ish entity reliving those events again and again.

    Regarding the “unreality” of a simulated doctor, based on imperfect knowledge of The Timelord, I suppose I was influenced by the Star Trek: Voyager EMH doctor – he is a simulation, but has become self-aware and has all the behaviours of a sentient entity. I still feel that a simulated Doctor based on the knowledge that the Daleks had after their earliest encounters addresses the key differences between CushingDoctor and TimelordDoctor quite parsimoniously, (of course, Dalek chronology is terribly complicated, so what “early” would have meant in that context is difficult to unravel).

    • Why is CushingDoctor human? – Because the twice that the Daleks have encountered the TimelordDoctor he has been accompanied by humans, and on one of those occasions it was on the home planet of humanity. Also, he looks like a human. If it looks like a human, quacks like a human – a fair assumption is that it is *human*!
    • Why is the interior of the Tardis so very very wrong? – because the Daleks have never seen the interior of a Tardis, and have no frame of reference other than the human technology that they have seen on Earth after their invasion.

    Finally – Why would the Daleks run training simulations? Well, because they are living beings, simply programming them with battle tactics might not be as effective as allowing them to experience it.

    #10879
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    Hello Sweeties

     

    Thanks for all your lovely comments about our classic series series, or indeed our BG series. But we have hit a fork in the road, and I thought I would crowdsource y’all. Due to a bit of editorial misunderstanding over at the Gruan, I first complied a list of 20 stories that were the most noteworthy, the ones with big conversations to have over. But when they launched the first one, it turned out the badging billed it as ‘The Greatest Episodes Ever’. It hasn’t affected the list up til now, but going forward, I had Timelash down, as an example of the very worst. I had The Happiness Patrol down as an example of the very gayest. But I can’t in all conscience bill those as The Greatest can I?

     

    (Well I would argue the case for The Happiness Patrol, but that is me)

     

    And indeed, being no great fan of Davison or the post-60s Cybermen I can’t really stand Earthshock, but it’s such a marquee story that we can’t really leave it out either. And what the bleedin’ hell does one about Colin and McGann?! Revelation Of The Daleks or The Two Doctors when we’ve already omitted The Ark In Space?! So my question is… do you think the bad ones warrant greatness if they turn out to be significant? Can we love ‘bad’ Doctor Who just the same?

     

    I am speaking as a hardline McCoy apologist here also xx

    #10882
    WhoHar @whohar

    @danmartinuk

    A tough one that. Bit surprised to see an error in the G though 🙂 You’ll see no spelling mistaeks here.

    The only way of keeping the same list (ie including the stinkers) is to change the definition of “Greatest” from “Best” to “Most Significant” – the old Thesaurus Ploy.

    Alternatively, timey-wimey the headline away by actually changing “Greatest” to “Noteworthy”

    #10883
    ScaryB @scaryb

     

    Bloomin subs!

    Any chance they can change the badging? (Including the ones already run, retconning so to speak). I’m assuming you’ve already thought of that, but sometimes it’s worth mentioning the obvious :mrgreen:

    Are you on a word limit or could you include an explantory paragraph explaining the basis for the choices?  Might stir up a bit of controversy if certain people see Timelash in “Greatest Ever” list 👿 OTOH I bet you’d also get people championing it  and proclaiming your insight.

    (I defected during most of Davison and C Baker, liked McCoy a lot so not much use on episode selection from this time)

     

    #10884
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @danmartinuk

    Well I would argue the case for The Happiness Patrol, but that is me

    Sounds a good enough reason to put it in your blog 🙂

    #10885
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @whohar @scaryb

    Alas we cannot change it. Once something’s published, it’s published. We’d all been talking at cross purposes at what ‘classic’ actually means. It would have been useful to have your ‘BG’ phrase there and then!

    #10886
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @scaryb

    Our clique of Evil Doctor Who Journalism Gays hold Helen A, Fifi and The Kandyman in the highest esteem. But it’s not just *our* show

    (it is really)

    #10889
    WhoHar @whohar

    @danmartinuk

    All you’d need to do is start the piece with something like this:

    Some of the less intelligent of you mistakenly took Greatest to mean Best when it obviously means Significant. Now we’ve cleared up that little misunderstanding, let’s have your thoughts on Timelash.

    Simples. And no one would dare argue.

    Alternatively, can you change the list?

    #10890
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @whohar

    Haha. Oh yes, of course I can change the list. I just don’t WANT to. And in the true spirit of Doctor Who fandom, this is all about ME, mwahaha

     

     

     

     

    #10892
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @danmartinuk

    Hi Dan – bit of a conundrum that one. I think you came below the line to present this as a personal voyage rather than an authoritative list, and that probably is the way to continue. The firm fan favourites just result in the usual tired clichés perhaps.

    I’ll have a think myself, because I’m mulling over some personal favourites for an entry on a blog by @htpbdet, but can I suggest something for Baker Mk 2?

    I watched his entire run (pity me) with someone for who THE Colin Baker was THE Doctor as he tried to introduce me to the delights of his run (he failed). Just do one column on “The Ultimate Foe” and talk generally about the Trial of a Timelord series. Such an intertwined series / never tried before / a flawed experiment / the potential of the Valyard, etc, and leave it at that. Sixth devotees will love it, and you get away viewing the shortest story. 😉

    I also meant to ask – will this series of “greatest episodes” continue into 2005 and beyond, or are you stopping with Eight?

    #10893
    WhoHar @whohar

    @danmartin

    Evil Doctor Who Journalism Gays

    Well then, finish the 20 Greatest list with the, er 20 greatest eps. and then start a top 20 “Doctor Who Episodes with a Gay Sub-Text” list.  The original list gets completed, you remain employed until November, you get your own mwahaha list and the resultant fallout causes the Internet to explode. Everybody lives wins.

    #10894
    Anonymous @

    @whohar – you need to say @danmartinuk ; I think DanMartin was unmasked as an imposter or something.

    #10895
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @phaseshift

    Haha, I think I actually said that on first identifying this misunderstanding! We’ve also ended up doing specific episodes rather than stories cos that is our format, which I also argued against but was talked down. But hey ho that’s just semantics.

    This is a good idea on The Ultimate Foe. If we go with it I will  of course credit you. Good old Pip and Jane.

    And yup, we’re going the whole way. Which again, I first misunderstood and presented a purely BG list. But what is nice is that, even for the kids, there’s no longer any differentiation between BG and AG is there? Everyone just looks at it as one long  story

     

    #10896
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @Shazzbot @whohar

    It’s hilarious that I got an imposter! Never felt so special…

    Now going to spend the afternoon contemplating the subtext of The Happiness Patrol 😉

    #10897
    Ana Cortes @ana-carolina-teixeira-cortes

    Hello Sweeties,
    This is the firt time i use this forum,sorry if i make some mistakes…
    Well, i have one doubt about 2 symbols .
    First is this one: http://goo.gl/z6w39
    Then this other one:http://goo.gl/La9l5
    Are they the same symbol?And someone could please tell me the exactly meaning of those two?
    Tks so much!
     

    #10899
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Hi @ana-carolina-teixeira-cortes

    And someone could please tell me the exactly meaning of those two?

    Sorry, no such thing as exact meanings on Dr Who ( 🙂 ), but I like the symbols, thanks for posting. (Someone else on this board might be able to enlighten you more. (And welcome to the forum)

    @allon-zee Thanks for the post upstream to the French site. Lots of great old clips (and full length episodes) – I could get lost in there 🙂

     

    #10900
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @danmartinuk

    Just adding my support to @phaseshift‘s comment about a list of 20 greatest DWs would likely just bring you into the same territory as everyone else. Boring! 😉   One of the nice things about the G blogs (generally) is the personal aspect of them.  And if you challenge a few perceptions with a gay subtext theme, so much the better! IMHO.

    😈

    #10903
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @danmartinuk

    If we go with it I will of course credit you.

    Hah! I’d rather you didn’t if you don’t mind. I wouldn’t want to suggest to anyone that I am selling that period! I will ask a favour though. If you get the opportunity in July, we have a “Faces of the Doctor” thread we’re trying to put down some thoughts on the various incarnations. It would be interesting to read something from someone who grew up with Sylvester. I ended his run being much more positive about him than when he started.

    On that note, we were talking about Davison this month. He quite surprised me because Tom was “a curly haired god” to my small self, but I enjoyed the Davison performance. If you want a couple of story suggestions other than Earthshock to talk about, the episode of Kinda where Tegan is trapped in “the Dark places of the inside” by the Mara is a good one. I think it’s still eerily effective. You can make a few jokes about the godawful snake as well. I always liked Enlightenment as well as it closes another definite arc in the series. You had the Guardians, Eternals that have been mentioned in passing in the new series, an unreliable companion for the first time.

    With Eight – it’s just the movie. One of those things really. Exactly the right Doctor in the wrong production. Use it as a springboard to mention his audio stuff with Big Finish and broadcast on 4xtra. Even if they are not considered TV canon, they are entertaining stories about the Doctor.

    #10906
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @danmartinuk

    Oh, another McCoy fan, great. 🙂 Even though he was about the fifth Doctor I remember, McCoy has, ever since, been ‘my’ Doctor.

    Yes, I’d go for the old ‘little-known dictionary definition’ ploy. ‘Greatest’ can also mean ‘most important’ or ‘most remarkable’ – and Timelash  certainly was quite remarkable. And The Happiness Patrol was as well – but for different reasons. Sort of an ‘exactly what was the scriptwriter smoking?’ episode.

    #10911
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @ana-carolina-teixeira-cortes

    I think they are both fan creations to be honest, and not from the show itself. The first one I recognised from Deviant art:

    http://stevenlawson.deviantart.com/art/Time-Lord-Seal-tattoo-88083418

    #10912
    Ana Cortes @ana-carolina-teixeira-cortes

    @phaseshift

     

    Yeap, i stole from there hahahahahah

    #10917
    DanMartinUK @danmartinuk

    @bluesqueakpip

    Oh silly me, we are in fact calling them the ‘Best’, which allows rather less wriggle room

    #10919
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @danmartinuk

    Best (examples of each Dr)?

    ie not necessarily their best stories, but best examples of their characters or aspects of their season or Dr Who as a whole, or particular subtexts 😉

    (Shame @htpbdet isn’t about just now – he loves the challenge of accommodating so called continuity errors, LOL)

    #10920
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @danmartinuk – yes, the billing of “The Best Doctor Who Episodes of All Time” isn’t exactly great on the wiggle room, is it? 😀

    I think the only way you could get round that one would be by starting your blog on Timelash with “In a strange way Timelash is one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time – once seen, it is never, ever, forgotten.” 🙂

    Adjust as required.

    #10921
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    OK, bonkers theories potential I’ve just come back from an OU tutorial, and apparently something weird is going on with the OU systems: peoples assignments going missing and being found in obscure slush folders, and for online tutorials,  everyone being put into separate ‘rooms’ in which they are unable to speak to anyone, or hear what anyone else says. My tutor didn’t say anything about Doctor Who but it is, as she put it, as though with all the information being uploaded, the system is developing consciousness, (and is neither a pleasant, nor helpful individual).

    So off the top of my head: The Great Intelligence is meddling, dark tardis, or the beginnings of the ‘papal mainframe’.

    (Or maybe just as my father, who was in to computers pretty near to their inception: ‘To err is human. It takes a computer to really screw up’.)

     

    #10925
    DenValdron @denvaldron

    @badwulf

    Regarding the “unreality” of a simulated doctor, based on imperfect knowledge of The Timelord, I suppose I was influenced by the Star Trek: Voyager EMH doctor – he is a simulation, but has become self-aware and has all the behaviours of a sentient entity. I still feel that a simulated Doctor based on the knowledge that the Daleks had after their earliest encounters addresses the key differences between CushingDoctor and TimelordDoctor quite parsimoniously

    So you are thinking an autonomous real world simulation (as opposed to a computer simulation sitting in a Dalek hard drive), wandering through history in its own functional mock up of a Tardis?  That seems to contradict the notion of the Doctor as a human on any level.  But again, this would share the trait with my own theory that the Doctor only ‘appears’ and ‘believes’ himself human.

    Actually, there is some precedent for that in the series –  In the Hartnell Doctor episode, ‘The Chase’  time travelling Daleks  construct a Hartnell Doctor simulation, who dukes it out with the original.  In the Smith Doctor episode, ‘Victory of the Daleks’ the Daleks construct ‘Professor Bracewell’ as both a cover story and a bomb.  So there is some precedent for the Daleks constructing a simulant, even a simulant Doctor.

    Why is CushingDoctor human? – Because the twice that the Daleks have encountered the TimelordDoctor he has been accompanied by humans, and on one of those occasions it was on the home planet of humanity. Also, he looks like a human. If it looks like a human, quacks like a human – a fair assumption is that it is *human*!

    Ahh, but between the encounters in the first adventure and the encounters in ‘Invasion Earth’ the Daleks have several times encountered the Doctor.  Tom Baker in Genesis of the Daleks, John Pertwee in Planet of the Daleks, Day of the Daleks, etc.   By the time the Daleks clearly have the technology and ability to  create a simulant Doctor and send it through time in a reproduction of the Tardis, they would clearly know that the Doctor is a time lord, has multiple incarnations, and almost certainly know what the interior of a Tardis looks like.

    Finally – Why would the Daleks run training simulations? Well, because they are living beings, simply programming them with battle tactics might not be as effective as allowing them to experience it.

    Except that the battle tactics of these encounters would be irrelevant to the super-advanced Daleks who would be the only ones capable of building and running a Cushing Doctor simulant.   Remember in the first Dalek encounter by Hartnell, these original Daleks are dependent on external power sources and can barely operate.  They’re tin cans by the standards of the later Daleks.

    #10926
    Whisht @whisht

    @miapatrick – so many students saying “I don’t know where I am”

    Thanks for this as a lovely springboard for the imagination!

    The real problem with computers, is that they do *exactly* what you say.

    #10927
    Whisht @whisht

    i know I’ll regret this but……..

    @den aldrin – I actually prefer your theory to @badwulf‘s for most of the reasons you posit. It’s elegant.

    But, there are very good reasons to run simulations of old scenarios even when they are ‘irrelevant’ to contemporary technology.

    Strategists often revisit ancient and old battles to learn why they worked. They rerun them to work out why they worked. If anything, it’s to see how the combatants dealt with luck etc. If anything it’s to teach them to be sneaky, brave, decisive, aware, resourceful – traits that are useful to any commander.

    There is also the pride/ competitive aspect: “I could have won that battle, even with their resources”

    So, two reasons you’d run simulations of old battles (I obviously rule out “fun”).

    But I still prefer your theory!

    #10928
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @miapatrick You think that’s bad? Ever tried using fOCUS? I don’t know why it’s written like that.

    I hope my assignment hasn’t been eaten.

    #10929
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @whisht– exactly. My father would go on to say that the seemingly infinite screw up capacity of computers is to do with the programing. Often, in other areas, if you make a mistake, you can see and fix it. In a computer program, like in an equation, the mistake can be hard to spot, but as the program or equation continues, the mistake is magnified. (a little like re-writing time, maybe…)

    #10930
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @satsumajoe, if you’re studying with the OU, if you have your receipt code you should be OK. She did say in future put your name and id on every page.

    What’s fOCUS? why would they even do that? (I’m in an on-going sulk because the OU forums spellchecker doesn’t acknowledge the existence of the word ‘dyspraxia’.)

    #10931
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @miapatrick – thanks for giving me a near-heart attack regarding the possibility of the OU losing my EMA – just when I thought the nightmare was over.

    But yes, I do have an email with a receipt number.

    😀

    #10932
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @miapatrick It’s a bit of software for psychology (or maybe social science in general) students. Horrible really, pretext of presenting video logs and such in ‘real’ situations – complete with bad res, sound etc. When it does work anyway! Not sure that’s valid so much now. I don’t know why they do it but it’s used in a few other bits. Didn’t know the forums had spellchecker at all! Dyspraxia is tough to get recognition for in general, I think. Not me, family.

    Phew, I do that as standard! What are you studying then? That’s you as well @bluesqueakpip!

    #10933
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @satsumajoe – just finished A363 – advanced creative writing.

    #10935
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    SatsumaJoe- re: dyspraxia, the main reason it bugs me is that it might only affect about 3% of the population but a: that’s still a lot of people, and b: I can see how it could easily be higher among OU students- people who struggled at school because their condition wasn’t understood who want to do a degree and maybe don’t have the a levels etc to get into a brick university, one of the main selling points of the OU is that it more or less starts from scratch…

    (Other than that, they’ve been lovely. Send me print-outs of audio materials, nagged me into applying for the disabled students allowance, so I got a voice recorder, some really fun software and a tutor comes to my house every week for an hour, let me take exams at home on my computer. So I’m not slagging off the OU.)

    Anyway, I’m doing A151: Introduction to Material culture, hopefully doing the level two creative writing module next.

    Take it you’re doing psychology?

    #10936
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @bluesqueakpip– yeah, I think if you have that, it’s basically their problem. You can prove you sent it.

    (On a slightly related note, I honestly thought your username was ‘Bluepipequeak’ until the first time I tried to respond to one of your comments…)

    #10941
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @miapatrick Oh, I didn’t think you were, know them to be quite good for supporting disabled students; again, based on the experiences of others, ‘classmates’ and such. And yes, plain psychology degree 🙂 Heard some good things about A215!

    #10942
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    sma mir

    Crazy Captions 2 & 3 are up on the Blog!

    #10944
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @satsumajoe– psychology degree sounds a lot more useful than the ‘humanities specialising in creative writing’ that I’m doing.

    Yes, I’m looking forward to it. Saw some negative feedback on the OU website (credit to the OU for including it- or evil mechanisms of the OU consciousness?) saying there was a lack of support compared to other creative writing courses, but I just thought, well, it’ a level two course, some people might find the transition from level one hard, and besides, it’s the kind of course a lot of people take who aren’t studying for a degree, so maybe they didn’t realise what they were signing up for. (after all, if it’s too easy, it isn’t much of an achievement.)

    #10946
    Whisht @whisht

    Hi @denvaldron,

    I was replying to you here via an iPad – there the greatest thing according to some, but I still haven’t managed to turn off the bloody auto-correct so my reply didn’t link to you.

    as I was saying to @miapatrick on another topic, computers do exactly what you tell them.

    [sigh]

    #10947
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @miapatrick – it depends very much on your tutor. I had a great tutor for A215 and loved it. It also improved my writing quite a lot. But yes, it’s hard work.

    A363 is the more difficult one – but after all, that’s third level. That was really hard work.

    #10949
    DenValdron @denvaldron

    You know, around the time of the Amicus Doctor Who movies, Peter Cushing starred in several other productions, which were distinctly Doctor Who-ish, and where he played a “Doctor” –

    * 1966’s “Island of Terror” from Planet films, he played Doctor Stanley, dealing with the menace of a new artificial life form.  Released between the two Doctor Who films.

    * 1967’s “Island of the Burning Doomed” also Planet films where he played Doctor Stone, about an alien invasion. As a bonus written by Pip and Jane Baker.  Also starring Christopher Lee.

    *1972’s “Horror Express” where he plays Doctor Wells, about a body jumping alien cave man.  Also starring Christopher Lee.

    In a lot of his movies, Cushing played Doctors, or professors or scientists.  But these stand out as being very friendly to a Cushing-Doctor pseudo canon.

     

    #10953
    DenValdron @denvaldron

    @whisht    Fair enough.  Matt Smith actually encounters a caste of Daleks with names whose job is to be creative and to do innovative things.

    #10976
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    I’ve just posted another blog by @htpbdet , this time it’s his thoughts on Pertwee. Lengthy, of course, but worth a read.

    http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/the-doctors/pertwee-the-patrician-gadget-loving-showoff/

    #10987
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Also, I’ve opened a new topic on the 50th for future ramblings etc.

    http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/the-50th-anniversary-special-part-2/

    #10993
    Anonymous @

    Hey guys, before I start I would like to say that I am a big fan of Matt Smith and all the actors who played the doctor from 1963 to now, but there is something I need to get off my chest,

    Does anybody else think that doctor who was dumbed down after Russel T Davis and the old producers left, I cant help but think that series 5 to series 7 was aimed at a younger audience than series 1 to 4, I’d like to hear what others think about this

    #10997
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @EcclestonTennant – welcome!

    “Dumbed down” is definitely the wrong phrase. I have a great admiration for Russell T as a writer, but I don’t find that Series 1 to 4 support the number of rewatches that Series 5 to 7 do – enjoyable as they are.

    Series 5 to 7 are more child-friendly. The difference is probably because Steven Moffat is writing the show, in part, with an eye on what his own two boys like. I get the impression they’re his personal ‘audience focus group’. But again, we might find this ‘child-friendly’ focus is part of the S5 to S7 arc; that the Eleventh Doctor’s story was all about the children. 🙂

     

     

    #10998
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @EcclestonTennant

    Does anybody else think that doctor who was dumbed down after Russel T Davis and the old producers left

    No, personally I don’t. That’s a brief response to a brief question.

    I’m not being unfriendly here, but just so you are aware we’ve had a few people over the last couple of weeks come in to make sweeping statements, with the occasional straw man argument bolted on for good measure. They have been ignored, as it’s a fairly obvious ploy by some to try to put the onus on others to do the work for them and generate a time consuming argument with little effort. A lot of us have been there, done that and got bored with it.

    If you think it has been dumbed down, please feel free to expand on your point in as long a post as you see fit, maybe with comparisons, etc, between the two regimes. I’d be interested to read your take and would certainly respond.

    Oh – a quick point on the 50th convention. I believe @danmartinuk who writes reviews for the Guardian will be there, and a couple of others may hope to go. Sadly – I am going to miss that one. 🙁

    I’m off for an hour but will be back later.

    #11025
    Anonymous @

    Thanks for your opinion @Bluesqueakpip & @PhaseShift

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