S33 (7) 14 – The Name of the Doctor

[SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe]

@bluesqueakpip Sorry, I wasn’t entirely serious about that; I actually like the tagline of this place! And my (possibly needless) theory as a riff on yours! As the Doctor is in his own timestream, his memory (of Clara using the SG name) would scatter just as Clara’s did – see the Oswin nickname become a real one. He would not realise that as pre-jump version receiving post-jump information, it would just be there in his head when triggered. No?

Could it be he didn’t/doesn’t survive the jump intact? Hmm, anniversary speculation.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@satsumajoe @bluesqueakpip

I don’t see the problem. sorry.

Clara calls herself Souffle Girl in NotD. She’s been making souffles, possibly not too successfully. It’s her mum’s resipe. that’s the source memory. she jumps intothe timestream and becomes claricles. One of those claricles becomes COO in AotD and uses the memory of making souffles to her mum’s recipes as a way of building and maintaining her psychic wall.  The Dr picks up on the theme of souffles because that’s what alerted him to what was odd about Clara. So he calls her Souffle Girl because Clara originally does it in NotD. ie although AotD comes before NotD in the viewers timeline it’s clear that Clara’s influence is already there – ie this episode has been retconned by the claricle by the time we see it.

Yes?

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

 I’m still intrgiued by her rash promise (“I’ll always find you” – did she have any idea just what she was taking on?!). 

@scaryb – yes, it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because when I was doing my rewatch, I took a careful look – and Victorian Clara’s mother does look to have been played by the same actress who played Ellie Oswald, modern Clara’s mum.

So her mother wasn’t joking when she said ‘I’ll always find you’. She always does find Clara, and always does become her mother.

But how?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@bluesqueakpip

So her mother wasn’t joking when she said ‘I’ll always find you’. She always does find Clara, and always does become her mother.

That thought makes me feel very warm and happy 🙂 (ClaraPrime looks/sounds so lost when she’s in the Dr’s timestream and there’s so many of her living and dying throughout the Dr’s history)

But yes… how?

And the whole thing about Clara “blowing in on a leaf” so that those particular 2 people meet to become her parents… maybe some of the claricles become her mum in the timestream – she sets that up so she gets some protection for herself… And does it suggest anything about the reality of the one we think is ClaraPrime?

[Timeloop @timeloop]

Re Souffle Girl

I also would like it to be easy (both comming up with it seperately). I dont think that would be a sign of bad storytelling.

[misspawsintime @misspawsintime]

This has been troubling me! After several re watches of TNOTD.. the few end scenes are are very quick and fast.. I havent got the actual words down but i am sure that one of you can put that right..

But when Dr bangs his head and says something about “its not about my name its about the promise, like YOU name  and the promise!

Something implying that Clara name has a promise! Sorry its not clear as mud but maybe someone can put me right that he was referring to himself  and not as well as Clara!

 

Alos does it not seem abit strange that in the last few scenes we see our Dr “My Clara!  as she walks towards him in the timestream…? Is this the only time he has mentioned “My Clara! I realise there may be abit of emotion going on here but that scene just makes me think of a Father and Daughter would say (or a Grandparent to Grandchild”)…

Now i am out for the day so will check on on my return (the big orange blob in our sky is actually wamr and sunny today!)

And can i say that this board has given me alot of fun this week with your bonkers ideas and theories! Its taken me around a week to catch up!

 

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@misspawsintme Meow!

paraphrasing the last scene –

Dr explains that it’s not about the name you are given 9when you are born) it’s about the name you choose for yorself. When you choose your name, it’s like making a promise you must live up to. He chose the name the Doctor. He says Hurt Dr broke that promise.

Re “my Clara” – yes very paternal/familial,  ie Clara not potential lover

Aaaw 🙂

Enjoy the sun

[Whisht @whisht]

Hi @mispawsintime – I think I know what you’re getting at.

At the end, Smith says:

“The name, my real name, that is not the point.
The name I chose, is ‘The Doctor’.
The name you choose, its like, its like a promise you make.

He’s the one who broke the promise.”

Clara then faints, just as HurtDr begins to turn around.

It is a slightly strange stress on the word “you” (as in “you choose”) as if Clara has yet to choose a name, and when she does, it will be like a promise you make.

Of course, he may ‘just’ have put stress on the word for no real reason, but…. we don’t take mistakes/no real reason around here!

;¬)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@misspawsintime – yes, it’s a strange stress. And combines nicely with the Doctor’s comments to Victorian Clara: “Clara. Nice name. You should keep it.”

It’s as if, at some level, he knows ‘Clara’ is the name she’s chosen – another hint that modern Clara may not actually be ClaraPrime.

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

re: Soufflé girl- she does say at the start of the episode: I shall be soufflé girl. She’s referencing that. ‘I’m soufflé girl after all’.

In AotD, he starts off calling Oswin ‘Carmen’ because of the music she is playing. He switches to ‘Soufflé girl’ I think because although a ship crash landed and trapped, in which the inhabitant plays music is feasible, the same person cooking a recipe that depends on fresh, perishable ingredients isn’t.  But she’s not referring to that. Its just that she went in with soufflés on her mind, and it came out in her echoes.

(although it’s quite possible that AotD’s ‘soufflé girl came first, and Moffit decided to pick up the reference again.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@miapatrick

I’m not sure that people are quite getting my bonkers theory here 😀

It’s perfectly possible for people in real life to independently come up with the same nickname.

My bonkers theory, however, is that for them to do that in a script must have some significance. Especially since sticking the ‘Souffle Girl’ nickname into Journey would have been exceptionally easy – all you’d need to do is include it in the Doctor’s rant.

[Tournikate @tournikate]

Ok help.  In a rewatch of TNotD I noticed this and couldn’t reconsile it.  Sorry if its already been covered. (This is when the GI is talking to the friends and talking about how bloodsoaked the Doctors hands are (cybermen, daleks and a few others he mentions) Then he says the following.

GI says: “The Doctor lives his life in Darker hues, day upon day, and he will have our names before the end; Storm, The Beast, The Valeyard…”

?Storm? The Beast? are these names that the GI takes on (so he doesn’t die completely in the timestreams?) He’s been doing some timetraveling too and I wonder if this GI is not GI prime but a GI confetti?

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

You misheard the line, @tournikate. It is:

He will have other names before the end…

Storm we already know as one of the Doctor’s names: the Daleks called him ‘The Oncoming Storm’. The Valeyard we also already know – that was the name of the Doctor’s dark side, who appears between his twelfth and thirteenth regenerations. The Valeyard appeared in Trial of a Time Lord in Before Gap Who.

The Beast – that might be The Beast of The Impossible Planet, or a reference to the Moffat script The Beast Below. Since we’re told that the adventure starts on 10th April, I’d take it as a reference to ‘The Beast Below’, which first aired on that date.

[Tournikate @tournikate]

Ahhh Thanks @bluesqueakpip  – went back and I really did hear it wrong…well that clears up the name thing then 🙂

 

Any thoughts about if the GI that captures them is a shard or the prime though?  Does it matter to anyone but me? lol

[Timeloop @timeloop]

Has anyone here metioned that the Doctor knows all of his future because he went in his Timestream (same as reading it in a book I presume)? So he can refer to it in the past tense because to him all that is to come has already happened? Maybe enabling him to change his future (the two streams facility..[Amy])?

[WhoHar @whohar]

@timeloop

Yes, this is a good point. If the Doc has been in his own timestream – it implies both he and Clara now know the Doc’s future.

Unless he somehow didn’t look. I guess you can make a case for Clara only going into the Doc’s past as, presumably, that was what the GI was altering. Possibly the Doc was only in his own timestream at the point where he rescued Clara, although it would be a massive coincidence. I’m not sure the physics of the thing has been fully thought out and there are probably inconvenient implications. I’ll mull it over but if anyone’s got any ideas…

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@whohar @timeloop

I agree with you that the Dr being in his own timestream could lead him to know his own future (unless he doesn’t peek), except

1. He says the timestream is collapsing in on itself (which is why he has to get Clara out fast) – so presumably that means that the process of the universe healing “the scar” left by his time-travels is finished – it either fades, or heals over completely – no trace of the Dr after that? (this is the remnant of his timestream in his future, it was already decaying (after his death). Anyone out there with experience of collapsing timestreams, LOL?

2. Maybe there is no future – Clara says: “I saw all of you – 11 faces”

[WhoHar @whohar]

@scaryb

Anyone out there with experience of collapsing timestreams, LOL?

I did / will have.

Clara says: “I saw all of you – 11 faces

Yes, this backs up your theory. It resonated with me when she said it as it heavily implies either:

a) Doc 11 is the last one.

b) There is no more future, somehow.

The explanation to this conundrum will be explaned in the 50th show (confidence level = high), along with all the other loose ends (confidence level = low-medium)

[ScaryB @scaryb]

To all those who still think the Dr’s “birth” name willl be revealed in hte 50th – have another look at the episode poster –

It says exactly what we got – “His secret revealed” – it is;  he explicitly says HurtDr is his biggest secret ie his name isn’t the secret that’s revealed

AND he says his name is “The Doctor”

Actually that was just an excuse to look at the poster again 🙂 Which reminds me – lots of shattered glass/fragments in all the posters

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@whohar, @scaryb

all of you – 11 faces

As an aside, how did she know those faces were the Doctor?

I am sure the answer is blindingly obvious, but I have only had one cup of coffee this morning.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@blenkinsopthebrave

She says something like (after she’s jumped into the timestream) -she’s split into a million pieces, born, lives dies, has to find the Dr but always does and always knows it’s him. (Paraphrased, but it’s the opposite end of the day here and brain is about to close down for the night; I know, it’s shocking. I should have the whole thing memorised by now, LOL)

OTOH she missed HurtDr so maybe there’s other dark little nooks n crannies she missed.

But if there’s future Drs in there, surely she has to “fix” them as well, up to his death at Trenzalore? Definitely Moffat pointing hard in the direction of Matt being the last of the Timelords in more ways than one. Unless this is a branch-line timestream, which can be averted by reconciling with his dark side…

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@scaryb

Of course. Thanks. Now I remember (with the aid of a second coffee).

I must say, I have had a feeling for a long time that Moffat has wanted to have the last word on Doctor Who. I cannot see him killing off the show, of course, but I can see him as creating a rupture of such import that no one will be able to write Doctor Who in the same way ever again. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is planning something so big that people will talk about Doctor Who  in terms of “before Moffat” and “after Moffat”.

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

@blenkinsopthebrave

Moffat has wanted to have the last word on Doctor Who

Apparently he’s going to regenerate JFK.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@whohar

The tesalecter

Time can be rewritten. Remember Kennedy.

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

@blenkinsopthebrave

I hope they don’t bring that back in.

I think Moffat is all about leaving the past behind but doing it in a sympathetic way, so as to preserve the history. He’s a fan after all. But, from what I’ve read about him, it wouldn’t surprise me if he does something audacious to the story going forwards. The 50th would be an ideal platform for that. I’m not convinced both him and Matt Smith will stick around much after that, maybe just for another half season.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@whohar

I hope they don’t bring that back in.

Although you have moved to the colonies, I see you have yet to get the hang of colonial humour. <no smiley face, as i do not believe in them>

Actually, I think we both agree that he will do something audacious, that he is a fan, and that he will move on. I just think that he will do something in the 50th in a narrative way, that will make it impossible for future showrunners to run with the show without reference to what he has done (if that sentence makes sense).

[WhoHar @whohar]

@blenkinsopthebrave

you have yet to get the hang of colonial humour

No, I’m just a bit stupid sometimes. But, no smileys? Come on.

I just think that he will do something in the 50th in a narrative way, that will make it impossible for future showrunners to run with the show without reference to what he has done

And it’s our job to work out what he is going to do!

 

[PennyInTheAir @pennyintheair]

Hi! New here. Been reading the bonkers theories here, for a couple of episodes.

Let’s just say you’ve all made my head hurt …..but in a good way. 🙂

I’ve tried to read as much as I could, but I’m sure I’ve missed alot, so if this has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere already, I apologize.

I was rewatching ‘The Name of the Doctor’ where River asks The Doctor…

River: “I was mentally linked with Clara. If she’s really dead, then how can I still be here?”

Doctor: “OK, how?”

River: “Spoilers.”

I first thought she was simply stating the psychic link proves Clara is still alive. …until tonight (maybe).

After watching TNoTD, I rewatched Hide. Towards the end the Doctor is talking to the psychic and her great, great, and so on, granddaughter, and says…

Doctor: “That’s why the psychic link was so powerful, blood calling to blood.” Then he repeats the psychics earlier line…

Doctor: “Not everything ends, not love, not always.”

Personally, I hope that means there is a way River can come back, but that’s not the gist of this post. It’s about Clara, and her Mom. Now, I’ve never thought The Doctor or River were Clara’s parents. Or related to her in any way. But peoples observations about ‘current’ Clara’s Mom, being the same woman as ‘victorian’ Clara’s Mom, got me thinking about Clara’s story that she was never afraid of being lost, because her Mom promised she would always find her. Clara is definitely lost, and if blood does call to blood, could we see Clara’s Mom again? Will she find a way to come rescue her. Like with Amy who lost her Mom, and now has her back, will the Doctor find a way to bring Clara’s Mom back?

Now I mentioned at the beginning of that previous sentence that I never believed River was Clara’s Mom. I still don’t. But ‘my’ version of bonkers theorizing did segue to River (because of her psychic link with Clara in TNoTD, and she did follow her all the way to Trenzalore) that maybe I could be wrong. And maybe blood is calling to blood. When Clara jumped into the doctor’s timestream, maybe River (still psychically linked, followed right along with her. Keeping her company (or should I say, the claracles), as her/their Mom. (haven’t quite figured out how to make her corporeal) But I do think it’s very feasible for her to still be connected to Clara within the time stream.

Anyway, I was just trying to find an answer for Clara’s Mom saying she would always find Clara if she’s lost, and trying to make that come true.

Thank you for all the bonkers theorizing, you’ve all kept me very entertained, and slightly bonkers. 🙂

PennyInTheAir

[WhoHar @whohar]

@pennyintheair

Hello and welcome.

Good catch on the Hide “blood calling to blood” line.

My take was that River was still linked to Clara because of the teleconference, but the Spoilers comment would tend to disprove that. Unless the teleconference psychic link wouldn’t be expected to work once Clara had entered the Doc’s timestream. In that case, what would work? A blood line, or some other means TBD.

Moffat does tend to foreshadow a bit, so possibly Clara is biologically linked to River some way. I hope not, as it’s a bit of a repeat of the Amy-River story. The other option of course is that River is somehow in the Doc’s timestream herself.

Alternatively – and in a vain attempt to answer your initial question – perhaps Clara’s mum is also in the timestream and River is linked to her. Assuming the blood link holds, that would make Clara River’s granddaughter. Ahh.

[PennyInTheAir @pennyintheair]

@whohar

*shudder* I do agree with you that I’m not fond of the idea of River being Clara’s mom/or grandmother. Been there, done that with Amy and Rory.

It’s just with all these mother/daughter themes thrown out through out this second half of the series, that scene from Hide just seems to keep pulling at me.

“Blood calling to Blood”

“Not everything ends, not love, not always”

Oswin recording a message to her mom in ‘Asylum of the Daleks’ (to keep her sane)

Clara telling Angie her mom was a ‘great woman’ while trying to make a souffle in ‘The Name of the Doctor’

Clara’s mom telling her she would always find her in ‘The Rings of Akhaten’

Trading her mom’s ring for the flying scooter, and kissing it when she gets it back.

We watched the Doctor follow her parents around as she was growing up.

And that strange/magical leaf. The one that brought her parents together in the first place. That leaf, and her mom are the two most recurring theme/person in this series. Maybe more so than Jenny/Vastra/Strax combined.

Maybe the leaf is the catalyst to bring back Clara’s mom? (if she comes back at all)

I hope she does. I’ve seen more of her than I’ve seen of Clara’s supposedly living father. (he’s still alive, right?)

As to River. I think it’s possible for her to enter the doctor’s time stream, but only attached to someone else. The GI was non-coporeal and was scattered when he went through. Clara, coporeal, made it through relatively intact.

Honestly, the only other theory I have concerning River is if Clara was CAL somehow made flesh. If CAL could leave the library, she might still have some connection to River digitally/or psychically. Once they were reconnected through the teleconference link. *shrugs* Yeah, I know. Really reaching with that one. 🙂

But back to Clara’s mom. It just seems there is way too mch reference to her, not for there to be something more to it.

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

PennyInTheAir

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

The Great Intelligence. Some questions:

1. Have we seen the last of him/it? Presumably yes, as the Doctor stated he (the GI) would die if he entered the Doctor’s time-stream. Of course, neither Clara nor the Doctor suffered that fate.

2. Why did the Great Intelligence want to utterly destroy the Doctor and his impact on the universe? What was his motivation? Surely not simply revenge for being bettered by the Doctor in “The Snowmen”?

3. If the Great Intelligence was, well, intelligent, then wouldn’t he have realised that all that had to happen was that Clara would sacrifice herself by jumping into the time-stream to undo all the damage wrought by The Great Intelligence?

4. Is it just me, or does this Great Intelligence seems to be a very different kettle of fish to the one introduced in Troughton’s day with the Yeti? (My point here is that other old Who monsters/antagonists have been re-visited in a way that is true to their representation and motivation in old Who)

5. Is there a relationship between the Hurt Doctor and the Great Intelligence?  Think about it. It was only because of the GI we ended up in the Doctor’s time-stream and encountered (released?) the Hurt Doctor. Also see back to my question #2.

Now I shall go off and think about more Who-related food for the 50th party.

 

[OsakaHatter @osakahatter]

@whohar, @scaryb, @timeloop –

Likewise, I agree that being in his own timestream could allow him to see his own future (and possibly did, if we assume HurtDoctor as Twelve/Thirteen or somesuch), but I was wondering does he have any future to see?  It appears to be Eleven’s TARDIS console within the grave, the same crack in the window and Clara states that she saw all eleven versions of the Doctor.  This suggests no future beyond Eleven.

I was thinking that from the moment the GI jumps into the Doctor’s timeline, we see the timeline start changing (notably from red to blue – I took that as this reality fracturing apart – but I think the actual lines were also changing?).  The Doctor collapses and Vastra tells us his life is being re-written.  We see him fall in the Asylum.  Without Clara’s influence would there have been a regeneration then?  What about on other occasions?  Up to the moment when Clara jumped in, is it reasonable to assume the Doctor was finished inside his own tomb and therefore would have no future beyond that point?

This could explain the tomb-TARDIS being Eleven’s TARDIS (although could lead to there being two TARDIS flying around hmmm)

Clara’s actions restored the Doctor’s present (red shift changed back to blue, reality came back together, he was able to get up and start talking again) but at that point, the Doctor followed her into his own timestream.  Perhaps, if the Doctor is physically inside his own timestream, it follows he isn’t presently outside of it, and without any real world presence, still has no future to be seen?  Which could mean, that once they get out, the future is unwritten, the grave at Trenzalore gone etc.

[OsakaHatter @osakahatter]

@blenkinsopthebrave – Doubt we’ve seen the last of the GI.  I suspect that the GI shards will be around to cause mischief, purely to avenge themselves on the Doctor for reasons they can’t remember.  As you’ve pointed out, it’s hardly been the most mistreated of opponents for the Doctor, plans prevented but not really defeated as such – perhaps it now exists purely for revenge for revenge’ sake.And yes, for a ‘great’ intelligence, it didn’t seem to plan for what if’s following it’s attack on the Doctor.  No contingency planning, no contemplation of cause and effect, no logical thought processes. Perhaps this is all being co-ordinated by the British Government.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@osakahatter

Gi jumps into timestream – it turns distinctly red and Dr looks very unwell. Says he is going to reverse all the Dr’s victories into defeats. Dosn’t mean the Dr dies in these defeats, though his reputation does. We are told the GI will dies as a result of this act – he/it acknowledges this but says it will give him peace (and the Dr torment)

Clara jumps into timestream, it reverts to white, Dr recovers. Clara would die the same as the GI (and presumably a very sad and lonely death) exxcept that the Dr jumps in after her. (Getting mighty crowded in there).

As a result of the Dr jumping in, the timestream begins to “collapse in on itself” – so the Dr and ClaraPrime have to get out ASAP.

Implications –

All the previous 50 years of episodes that we have seen are the result of GI then Clara retconning. they may not be reset to exactly the way they were orignally eg explains any anomolous details (eg the Exillon daleks) in the series. May have bigger implications which may be eplored futher in 50th, series 8 or not at all!  There may be some remnants of Clara, GI still lurking about.

Although – if the timestream is collapsing then the implication is that it will just disappear – speeding up the end it was heading towards anyway (scar tissue, slowly healing and fading away).

Eleven can still travel the route that timestream took – he may be the one who dies/died at Trenzalore.

Or

Trenzalore was one of the defeats that a claracle later fixed, and the death in the “minor skirmish” didn’t take place.

@blenkinsopthebrave GI is certainly a sourpuss, but he’s also disembodied and has been for a long time  (if he was ever corporeal). Dr defeated him, that we know of, in the Snowmen, Tibet, London Underground, and again in BoSJ. Maybe he also just got pissed off at hearing (from all his databanks (“I AM information”)) just how brilliant the Dr is and ends up with a grudge bigger than the chips you’d need on each shoulder to balance out all the fishes in here

As a disembodied, non human, being he can’t comprehend, never mind predict, Clara’s very noble and brave, and ultimately emotional act of self-sacrifice (as she thinks when she jumps in)

[OsakaHatter @osakahatter]

@scaryb –

All good points, and in my scenario if all defeats turned into death then he wouldn’t have lasted long enough to reach his own grave and prompt the events that led to the GI getting access to the timestream and creating a paradox.

I think you’re right in saying it his reputation was dying, but would that manifest physically? As we see others die in the changed reality (Jenny for example) the possibility exists that some of those defeats did lead to the Doctors death (and this is suggested by the flashback to the Asylum), which would have burned through his regenerations prior to this, leaving Eleven as the last.

re. GI as a sourpuss.  The word sourpuss has always reminded me of Bagpuss.  So I now think the GI finally finds contentment by taking the form of a grumpy fat pink toy cat and his whispermen get turned into mice 🙂

[BadWulf @badwulf]

I apologise if this has been brought up before on other threads, but with all the @pennyintheair bonkers theorizing about blood calling to blood, and the heritage of Clara…

Amy and Rory are human, right?

Their daughter is Melody Pond/River Song, who must be human because her parents are human, right?

River gave her remaining regeneration energy to effectively double the doctor’s life, right?

If the doctor’s life has been doubled, and he received half of his life from a human, doesn’t that make him half human? (ducks all kinds of things being thrown)

Anyway,  it is my fervent hope that Clara remains unrelated to the Doctor, as I feel she works better as the brave human who risked herself for her friend, than as a family member.

[Anonymous @]

@badwulf – well, I’m not disagreeing with you, re the hope that Clara proves unrelated to the Doctor (in a biological sense) – because that whole Amy/Rory/River thing has been done to death (literally, in River’s case).

@PennyInTheAir too –

Over on the 50th thread (http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/the-50th-anniversary-special-part-2/page/2/#post-11203) , I’m positing – amongst other bonkers things! – that Clara might be the Doctor’s mum; or at least, influenced by the Doctor’s TimeLord mum.

There is so much still to cogitate that I hope we can keep these threads alive with the sheer force of our bonkers theorising.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Blood calling to blood

*Has awful flashback to the days of Buffy Season 5 and the number of people who just did get “The Key” despite Joss banging us over the head*

One of the oldest metaphors in literature and people still demanded a literal explanation.

Moff, too, tends not to do the literal…

[ColdSnow @coldsnow]

I think I found something in this episode that may shine some light on the future development of our beloved Doctor Who characters and the 50th anniversary episode, so just to be sure that nobody gets any unwanted spoilers :

ALERT :  POSSIBLE  SPOILER  BELOW  !!!

Proceed on your own risk …

 

Is it just me, or does it look as if when Clara is shown falling inside the time stream and the beginning and towards the end of the episode (around 1:26 min & 35:16 min) she briefly “transforms” from Jenna Louise Coleman into Billie Piper?

Does this imply that Rose aka Bad Wold created Clara to later get scattered in the time stream or is Rose one manifestation of Clara? The second possibility seems off, as Clara is always shown with here own face when she meets the different doctors. I like the first better. If Bad Wolf created Clara it would neatly tie together with the Red Riding Hood scheme Clara had going on in most of the episodes, the “Hungry like the Wolf” song in, and the other conectins between the two like the same (I believe) car that almost/did kill their fathers, the date of Ellies Oswalds death = the date of Jacky Tyler almost getting killed,  the beginning of the Doomsday episode is narrated by Rose vs the beginning of TnofD is narrated by Clara and both imply that this is episode marks the end of their story (Amy also narrated in the power of three, but without implying about her future) and probably several other things I don’t remember right now.

 

[ColdSnow @coldsnow]

@misspawsintime @whisht: Actually if I think about it Clara Oswald is her name. The name she chose was Oswin (In the Bells of St. John). And this means “friend of god” in the old germanic tongue. On the other hand it has been mentioned in a blog I read  before, that her name is an anagram for “window across all”. If you play with it using an anagrom finder and her full name (Clara Oswin Oswald)  you also get “A slow Rani was Slow” and other things. Interestingly enough you get snow and cold out of her name, where we saw her two echos associated with snowy and cold places / adversaries

[Whisht @whisht]

Hi @coldsnow – phew! Just to let you know, I don’t think your “spoiler” is really a spoiler.
It sounds much more like a bonkers theory! And that’s a good thing!

Spoilers (on this forum at least) are ‘facts’ outside of the episode, that relate to a future episode (eg Hurt being in the 50th, photos of a specific alien on set, a mate-of-a-mate who was chatting to a runner and found a photo proving that Obama will be the next Doctor etc etc).
Your thoughts sound more like what most of us get up to here – thinking about the episode, watching closely, wondering and then positing a theory (albeit bonkers!).

I’ll admit I didn’t see Clara transforming/looking like Rose, but agree there’s been Wolf mentions (see the Cold War thread and elsewhere here!). And the dates aligning – I’ll cede to your knowledge and others here who’ve been all over the numbers! There may be something in all that!

Btw – if you do have anything like I’ve described as a “spoiler” there’s a specific thread for them, so post as many of those things as you want over there. However, you sound like you’re theorising so you’re welcome on every other thread!

;¬)

In terms of anagrams – what makes you think I like anagrams??

;¬)

You can also get “sonar calls a widow” as well as many other (unlikely) anagrams!

My favourite was “DW now L; CALs OS Aria” (still waiting for mentions of Aria!!)
or
“DW saw CIA so ran lol”

or the @scaryb / @bluesqueakpip -ping
“DW is also Clara now”

;¬)

[Craig @craig Emperor]

I’ve now closed this topic and started a part 2 because of issues with the links to single posts, caused by, I’ve now discovered, database query limits.

Part 2 is here:

http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/s33-7-14-the-name-of-the-doctor-part-2/

[Author]

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