The Day of The Doctor – The 50th Anniversary Special

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  • #20177

    I’ll chuck something else into the mix (btw @timeloop, this may explain my attitude a tad):

    In another place I wrote:

    The trouble with SciFi fans is that they have a terrible habit of focussing on the Sci at the expense of the Fi, in practical terms meaning an over-obsession with plotting and puzzle solving at the expense of character and theme.

    Moffat’s plotting is actually very tight indeed (and anyone who denies this is simply not paying attention). But it is not his primary thing. Like Joss Whedon (most likely because of Whedon) Moffat is al about the emotional narrative and thrust – in writely terms, the theme – and the plot is there is serve this, not the other way round.

    Moffat’s theme has been all about the existential loneliness of the Doctor, echoed in so many ways:

    “Are you my mummy?”

    “Such a lonely little boy. Lonely then and lonelier now! How can you bear it?”

    John Smith’s brutal rejection by  Joan;

    Only one living person knowing his true name….

    And the entire Amy Pond arc (I am truly sad that I won’t get the chance to talk @htpbdet around on this: it speaks to me at a very personal level).

    When he lost Amy he wallowed in his loneliness. I think he has come to view it as his Just Punishment.

    Don’t look for big plot points about Moments, or Sonics or Keys or Eyes (although I suspect a lot of fan service will be present and correct (for some values of correct)): look for them in the Doctor’s need to atone and a desperate desire to end his loneliness.

    #20178
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @timeloop Sorry if I was appearing to diss your theory – definitely no offence intended. (People do it to mine all the time). And we can all get a bit fanboy/girl at times (cos it’s fun) 😉  While my 50/900 years in a day incorporates a frozen moment, it’s not (necessarily) the Moment that you were talking about. And please note that most of my theories are usually wrong!

    @phaseshift – I’d forgotten your hippocratic oath theory – good to dig it out again

    I do think it looks like Matt is being set up as the last, who dies at Trenzalore. But also like  that HurtDr could be the last Dr, who is also Dr Zero in a circular/cyclical rebirth sort of thing. Haha re your resolution of the regeneration limit – he just regenerates – no explanation provided.

    @jimthefish

    The Big Bad behind the Silence et al could be Omega in league with the Quarks and the Trods, using a super-weapon built from The Moment, The Hand of Omega and the Key to Time and it will only be by reviving past incarnations and housing them in the final incarnation of Susan that disaster can be averted.

    That’s nearly as bonkers as @whohar‘s  Zygon assassin and is possibly equal with @wolfweed‘s “The hatstand dunnit” (nice hatstand btw)

    @fatmaninabox @blenkinsopthebrave Re the communal wishing really really hard to bring back Canton – just tell me when you want to start!

    Whadja mean tongue in cheek? Theories are serious matters!

    #20189
    Whisht @whisht

    erm – have we had this (variant of the) bonkers theory?

    Can HurtDr be Dr Zero because he is actually Doctor Who where “Who” is simply his surname (shortened from the very long silly Gallifreyan).

    He was actually a beloved and brilliant Gallifreyan (I was going to say “Man” as in Human but that would be even madder!). He was heroic, a humanitarian (sic), pacifist, generous etc etc*. He was honoured and beloved by Gallifreyan society and culture. Our Doctor took his name as a mark of respect. What our Doctor does, he does in his (HurtDr’s) name.

    But then HurtDr did something terrible, something shameful “out of peace and sanity” that our Doctor doesn’t think lives up to the name the progenitor made for himself.

    HurtDr was our Doctor’s hero. And he broke his hearts.

    *and if he was all this and a peadeatrician then Bluesqueakpip et al will be squeeing even higher!

    #20190
    Whisht @whisht

    And if the above is true (as if) then we will have either TennantDr or SmithDr march HurtDr into his ‘scar’ to be imprisoned. He will lock the scar (as it allows travel to so many crucial points in time) with his name and the whole thing guarded by The Silence (a morally dubious choice if ever there was one).

    And when Clara says “oh so that’s who…” when reading the History of the Time War, she’s actually saying “oh so that’s ‘Who'” as in “oh, so that’s the heroic guy that then did something terrible”. Yet she hasn’t met/seen HurtDr yet. So when she sees him in the scar she faints as she’s in a paradox.

    So how did she recognise him before she’d entered the scar? Could she be suffering an echo from a future Claricle..?

    #20191
    Whisht @whisht

    oh, and actually I mainly agree with Phaseshift’s last post but especially point 2!

    Can’t create a problem that massive for the future! Broken window etc – that’s Matt’s Tardis so a bloody nightmare to move on from over the next year let alone years!

    #20200
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Hmmm… well, I’ve finally got space to remember my properly bonkers theories about the 50th. So:

    There are Twelve Doctors; we’ll discover that the life of the Doctor runs through a metaphorical clock-face. From Doctor Zero/Doctor Twelve who makes the First Doctor (Hartnell), then round again to the Eleventh Hour (the Smith Doctor). The life of the Doctor is an eternal circle; this is the Eleventh Hour. And Doctor Twelve is also Doctor Zero; it’s whatever he does that makes ‘The Doctor’.  The clock hits Twelve – and resets to One.

    Rather like @blenkinsopthebrave, I think that Moffat’s planning to break out of the loop. Whatever’s coming is going to be a very thorough game-changer. It will also be something we couldn’t possibly have imagined, but which will make perfect sense in retrospect.

    But – is it Hurt who’s Prisoner Zero, or is it our Doctor Formerly Known As Eleven? I think most of us would agree that if the loop goes to its normal pattern, Eleven dies at Trenzalore. As @whisht says, that’s Matt’s TARDIS that’s the tomb.

    So: nailing my colours to the mast – the last Fifty years have been a giant loopy thing. Its end creates its beginning; it’s an eternal circle.

    Second bonkers theory: the existential loneliness of The Doctor (thanks @pedant) is going to be destroyed. Not by bringing back The Time Lords, but by the Doctor no longer being Last of His Kind. This tends to suggest, to me, that Eleven is the real Doctor Zero; he’s the one who re-starts the Race Formerly Known As TimeLords. Either literally (via a baby with River) or metaphorically (by finding some way to rescue the children).

    If there’s a Doctor/River baby, it’ll probably turn up for the Christmas Special. Thank Moffat there’s a Nanny. 😉

    Fourth Wall theory: the Seventh Series of AG Who has been a quick metaphorical tour through the highlights of the last fifty years, ably abetted by the Production Team (codename –  Clara). Metaphorically speaking, we’ve just hit the rebirth of the show (i.e. our Welsh Clara is busy trying to get ‘Rose’ made).

    But if ‘Rose’ hadn’t got an audience, that would have been it. So I agree with people who think we’ve got some kind of ‘Tinkerbell’ moment. Without an audience, the Doctor will die. That’s why the hashtag is #savetheday.

     

     

     

    #20203
    ScaryB @scaryb

    For @bluesqueakpip‘s theory:

     

    Thinking back on our Moffat retrospective viewing –

    Families have a key place in his world  – what an Xmas episode that could be – a new Doctor, and a new baby to travel with – or a whole school of kids on the TARDIS (teasing, honest!)

    #20208
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip. That is truly brilliant. You have captured a lot of what I was groping for in a really elegant way. But what you are saying goes way beyond my paltry thoughts.

    I just watched “The Eleventh Hour” again (as one does) and it would be so easy to see it as the birth of a new cycle of Doctors.

    The Hurt Doctor? More and more I now believe he is between 8 and 9–however long that “life” lasted.

    But there is something else. Perhaps (like the 6th room on the 1st floor of Amy’s house) it is in the corner of my eye and I haven’t noticed it yet. Time to sleep on it.

    #20210
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip

    Sorry, I meant to be more effusive in my enthusiasm for your theory – it is truly brilliant! I did reference it (but much less clearly) in my earlier summary.  (And “Thank Moffat there’s a Nanny” made me fall off the sofa 😆 )

    A little to add – if Prisoner Zero proves to be significant – I won’t be disappointed if we don’t go back there, but I’ll be delighted if we do – then he has to be HurtDr.  He’s the one that Eleven is psychologically “burying” and refusing to investigate further. He chases away the guards who are after Zero – without checking what Zero’s situation is.  OK, he’s in post regeneration fruitcake-mode, but it’s still very unDoctorish.

    What if the cracks in time were caused by Eleven’s mental block around Hurt breaking down… as a resut of jumping into his own timestream scar?  Which allowed him to get the brief glimpse of Prisoner Zero/Hurt in Eleventh Hour which reminded him of his dark secret, which caused the mental barriers to start breaking down and caused the cracks in time…?!

    *Goes off to rummage in the discarded theories pile for the one about the Doctor really being on the psychiatrist’s sofa*

    (and I blame @blenkinsopthebrave for this, for his “corner of your eye” comment)

    #20211
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Any thoughts on  where/when the 50th will be set? (Probably easier than what/why/how)

    I’m guessing

    Where: Gallifrey, Earth, and a quick nip round the universe, just cause they can

    When : past, present (2013 (4th wall potential?)*), 51st century

    Plus a Day of the Daleks type time paradox which will either confirm or negate Blinovitch’s thing about crossing/changing your own timeline. Maybe HurtDr is the one who can do the changing of Matt’s timeline to avoid Matt’s death at Trenzalore, if he is not in direct line of succession so to speak – Matt saying that he isn’t identified as Doctor. And Hurt redeems himself in the process. (There has to be redemption for Hurt’s character – it’s about facing up to, and accepting/forgiving your own past failures and failings, so you can move on, renewed)

     

    *4th wall potential – Anyone seen the animated film the Illusionist? (thinking of the scene where he walks into the cinema… brilliantly done)

    #20215
    Anonymous @

    Jeez, I’m away a few days and all the best theories have already been taken!  🙁

    @blenkinsopthebrave – I like this very, very much (below).  And it’s a beautiful tie-in to Troughton’s famous speech to Victoria in Tomb of the Cybermen.  AG Who viewers will get the Amy/Rory analogy, and BG Who viewers the Doc 2 analogy:

    I have not entirely given up the idea that the previous Doctors (“our lives”) will fade in such a way that we will never again be able to revisit them (somewhat like Amy and Rory in New York), and only “exist” as long as we remember and believe in them.

    Also, this from you (below).  I’ve said before that I think the whole ‘last of my kind’ business is such an AG-specific trope, and which has led directly to The Lonely God problem (@Nick).  I don’t want to see Time Lords every week, but then they weren’t seen every week (barring Romana as a companion) in BG Who.  But the odd relative causing problems that our Doctor has to sort out, the way an embarrassing uncle needs to be shepherded out of the party occasionally?  I still like that idea.

    I think the Time Lock will be broken and the Doctor will no longer be the last of his kind.

    @pedant – this, I also have been wondering about:

    The Master has been conspicuous by his absence in the run-up

    @jimthefish – what I also believe:

    The Zygons will have next to nothing to do with the main trajectory of the story. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re the adventure that Doc 10 and Rose are having/just finishing off when Smith and Clara gatecrash their party

    I’m with @scaryb and @bluesqueakpip on their ’50/900 years in a day’ and ‘all a closed loop’ theories.  Not least because it fits with what Moffat has said about (in effect) re-booting the entire show and taking it in a totally new direction.

    @janetteb – I agree with you, that Clara is not the Doctor’s daughter.

    And all theories about progeny with River … erm, she’s bits of data in The Library’s datacore.  Granted, 11 was able to grab her by the arm in TNotD, but without making the littlees have to cover their eyes, it takes a fair bit more than arm-grabbing to make a gal pregnant … 😆

    @phaseshift – wouldn’t it be marvellous if the regeneration limit were simply ignored as you suggest?!  There’s been so much contradicting information about it over the years, anyway.

    And finally, yes, the fact that Clara has been a child-minder in at least two of her incarnations that we’ve seen (and a bar waitress in another, which could be seen as a kind of child-minding  🙂  ) is, to my mind, excruciatingly important.  But whose child(ren) will she be minding in the 50th and beyond … Capaldi’s Doctor?  Will his regeneration be some kind of re-set and she, with her knowledge of the Doctor through falling in his timestream, make her the dominant one in the Tardis?

    #20216

    @Shazzbot

    And all theories about progeny with River … erm, she’s bits of data in The Library’s datacore.

    Yes – now she is. But it wasn’t always so and you do not need the DVD mini-sodes to grasp that Doc and River had many off-screen times together. And if River’s arch comment at the the end TNotD meant anything, it was that whatever happened had already happened.

    And Amy and Rory manage to breed despite a bunk bed 😉

    #20218
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    And all theories about progeny with River … erm, she’s bits of data in The Library’s datacore.

    @shazzbot – this is a story about time travel. 😀

    We met River long before her parents err… met. It’s entirely possible that we could meet her offspring long after she herself is dead. It’d certainly explain all those hints about ‘love doesn’t die’.

    Moffat’s just given us the perfect explanation (well, perfect for bonkers theorists) why River might choose to hide her child from its father. The GI infected the whole of the Doctor’s time-stream from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. If the Doctor had another child, I suspect he’d consider that one of his ‘great victories’; he’d try and turn it into a defeat. River, of all people, isn’t going to allow a child to be used as a weapon in the battle between the GI and Clara.

    So any child from River’s ‘being alive’ period would be hidden from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. Which is why I’m starting to wonder whether the Smith Doctor’s final Christmas story is going to be a nativity play. 😆

     

    #20221
    Anonymous @

    @pedant @bluesqueakpip – I’m with you both on the time traveller possibilities that the Doctor isn’t restricted to creating progeny with a datacore River.

    On the other hand, though … Have we seen any scenes with River which in hindsight might make us think (OK, ‘bonkersly theorise’  🙂  ) that she was aware of the child she had with the Doctor?  I’ve always seen their (well, her) flirtatiousness as part of the relationship arc which happens well before the dreary nappy-changing, arguing about who’s getting up this time in the middle of the night, sleep-deprived parenting stage.

    And the River in the telepathic phone conference with the Paternoster Gang and Clara … she didn’t play (or wasn’t asked to play) the scene as if she was aware that Clara was related to her.

    @blenkinsopthebrave asked us to nail our colours to the mast, so on this point, I’m standing firm.  (and will happily spread good-quality mustard on my lovely bowler hat when [inevitably] proved wrong)

     

    #20222
    ScaryB @scaryb

    On Clara (or someone else) as River’s daughter – my fave is that it’s Capaldi’s kid – who knows what she’s been up to with him while we have to wait patiently on the slow path!

    @bluesqueakpip

    starting to wonder whether the Smith Doctor’s final Christmas story is going to be a nativity play

    which also ties in with your “Twelfth Night” scenario/possible title

    I’ve been thinking on those lines myself (largely due to your 12th Night)… trinities, the birth theory etc to make parallels with… not to mention Angels for a twist/threat/joke 😯

     

    #20224
    DickieGarvey @dickiegarvey

    I have seen an interview with moffet where he has stated that he is done with the weeping angles so would be very surprised if they showed up in the 50th or the christmas special

    Zygons will apper to have a minor part then it will be expanded near the end IMO

     

    #20225
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @scaryb – well, if it is ‘Twelfth Night’, the Doctor and River will have twins. One boy, one girl. The boy and the girl either won’t know about each other, or will both think the other dead.

    Clara as Viola? Playing the concealed ‘Cesario’ to the Doctor’s ‘Duke Orsino’. And then – since mistaken identity runs throughout Twelfth Night – I’m going to go for Matt Smith with new haircut playing the boy ‘Sebastian’ as well as The Doctor.

    ::looks around nervously::

    We did say bonkers theories, didn’t we? 🙂

     

     

    #20227
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    she didn’t play (or wasn’t asked to play) the scene as if she was aware that Clara was related to her.

    @Shazzbot – I looked for the relevant Moffat quote on The Doctor/River/Clara – and here it is.

    the show will make “some mileage” out of the love-triangle between the three but “not in the ways you’ll think”.

    I agree that River doesn’t play the scene as if she knows Clara is related to her; however it has been carefully established that River is just as good an actress as Alex Kingston. 😉 There’s also the matter of the psychic link, which links River, Clara and the Doctor.

    In the conference call scene, River’s obviously offended or in pain when Clara doesn’t know who she is. We’ll have to wait and see whether she was simply offended that the Doctor doesn’t even mention her, or couldn’t hide her pain that her own daughter had absolutely no idea who ‘River Song’ was – not even whether she was a man or a woman.

    #20228
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip – well think of all the doubles, dopplegangers, duplicates, mirrorings, echoes and whatnots we’ve had throughout Eleven’s run… not to mention Zygons about to be thrown in the mix (as @dickiegarvey just reminded us) –  I’m not knocking anything out at this stage, least of all twins!

    Where did the Moffat quote come from – I missed that interview, I think.

    (And keep theorising – you’re on fire this morning 😀 )

    #20229
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @scaryb – it was in Entertainment Weekly, but that particular quote was noted on Blogtor Who

    Incidentally, I’ve just noticed that Clara incorporates some of the letters in Cesario/Viola. Probably one of those total coincidences. But then, that would be applying the Blue Boringers. 🙂

     

    #20233
    Anonymous @

    @pufferfish – I just noticed this that you posted last May in The Name of the Doctor thread:

    Besides, for all we know the History of the Time War book could name him as Mr. Song – especially if it was written by the wife.

    he he he.

    Which kinda ties in with this current speculation on River-Doctor progeny.  I’ve always imagined that in an actual partnership of the two, River would definitely be in charge.  😀  And the Doctor would be left holding the baby …

    I’m still feeling a bit warm toward my idea that a Clara / Capaldi Tardis would have the former ‘in charge’.  I originally thought that might be because of her adventures in his timestream, but with such a strong mother (assuming River is her mother @bluesqueakpip) it might simply be her genetic fabulousness …

    #20236
    DickieGarvey @dickiegarvey

    moffat quote was from an interview with nerd cubed on youtube

    have tried linking but no posts 🙁

     

    #20239
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip @Shazzbot

    BSP’s theory (and my 50/900) could also tie in with the title –

    The Day of the Doctor ie his ONE day – he’s lived all his other lives (while this day is frozen, or he comes back to the same time he left), but he has to come back to this 1 day to sort out whatever it is that went wrong in this single day or there will be no more Doctors – which is why this Day has to be Saved. Or saved like a computer programme? Databases? Uploaded to the Matrix so he can be born again with new set of regenerations? (Don’t like that one 🙁 )

    Day of the Doctor could also refer to the more traditional meaning of the day he comes through – TimeLord triumphant

    @Shazzbot

    And the Doctor would be left holding the baby …

    Hence the cradle in the TARDIS 😉  Nice one.

     

    PS Cesario/Viola = Carla (same letters tho) *dyslexics! 🙄 😉 *

    #20252
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @dickiegarvey – Nerd Cubed interview is here

    #20254
    DickieGarvey @dickiegarvey

    thank you for linking it just wouldnt work at all for me

    I guess  most of u had seen that interview

    the save the day bit is confusing me i guess all will become clear with the minisodes at CiN ans stuff, i feel its more linked to that than to the 50th directly

    #20258
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip “Twelfth Night”, twins…it gets better and better!

    Let’s face it, there is a child of River and the Doctor out there.

    The child was born before “Silence in the Library”, but to a Doctor subsequent to 10. “River, you know my name. You whispered my name in my ear. There’s only one way I would ever tell anyone my name. There’s only one time I could.”

    I also think that it is highly likely that the child was born to a Doctor subsequent to 11. In “A Good Man goes to War” when River takes his hand and places it on the cot: “I am telling you.” I think that from that point he knows he has/will have a child, but he does not know who it is.

    @bluesqueakpip The Christmas story as a nativity play–brilliant. Or…possibly…the arc about Capaldi’s Doctor that will play out over the course of season 8.

     

    #20298
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    some fab ideas above which I’ll come back to, but just wanted to jot down a few guesses about the anniversary special before the trailer comes along and warps my mind again!

    – the Hurt Doctor will be redeemed. But he won’t gain a number. He’s from a closed timeline. This may foreshadow the doctor’s entire line ending by looping back to the beginning – this version of the doctors timeline is ending at Doc 11, at trenzalore (900 years in one day theory, can’t remember who’s it was but you’ve convinced me!)

    – The episodes will be more about beginnings than endings, so I think the start of the time war will feature more than the end. The HurtDoctor’s failing   will be to do with participation, rather than with the ending of the war. That said, I don’t think the war will feature largely.

    – We’ll see why the Doctor left Gallifrey. We may also see that he’s gone through this loop of leaving, living for hundreds of years and returning before.

    – The time lock won’t be removed, although there may be a reset so far back in the doctors history that the time war has never happened, the time lords have not had chance to become who we know them to be etc.

    – bit of a long shot this, but I don’t think we’re going to get D10 and Rose together immediately, I think they’re going to join the story at separate times.

    – Clara will fill Susan’s role in helping the Doc flee Gallifrey but she won’t be Susan. Her backstory may involve Ellie being a rescued child of Gallifrey though – but that will be for next year, not the special.)

    Apologies for typos, my phone is proving less than useful!

    #20304
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @all Woah, we really got the whole bonkers theorizing started again, didn’t we?

    So much input, I am delighted.

    First of all: @jimthefish @nick @pedant @scaryb Thanks for reassuring me, felt all warm and fuzzy 😉

    @jimthefish Thanks for that very detailed reply! But can you please explain to me what a continuity porn is to you? (As you said here: “A plot that hinged on decades-old continuity porn would go down like a lead balloon, I think…”)
    It might be me… but is porn really the right word? Is there a context for that word I have missed out so far? My best guess right now would be that some fans would get off on continuity?…? Thanks for the laugh! And looking forward to your explanation.

    RE: Knowledge that must never be spoken – Anyone has found something that could potentially fit the description?

    @phaseshift “5. I will be wrong again. In the roulette wheel of plot points, the house (SM) always wins.„ Nice analogy

    @wolfweed Nice hatstand indeed.

    @pedant I agree that the Doctor came to terms with loneliness as his punishment. His desire to end his loneliness is there, but I don’t think it is desperate. He would go through more trouble finding people. I would imagine him acting like a hyper attentive dog.

    @scaryb Yes, most of the things we came up with will be wrong.
    But it would be SO great if we could hit something bulls-eye. I felt like that when I figured out that we are not discovering the secret but the grave a few hours before TNOTD was broadcasted and was actually right.
    The more ideas we have the more probable it is that we dig out SOMEthing. I have tried “If I were Steven Moffat, what would I like to do?” – just a blank mind. What about you? If you were Steven Moffat, what would be a really important outcome for you?
    Well now I can think of one thing: 11’s death. But that is not helpful.

    I am with @bluesqueakpip on everything concerning River’s child. Especially the explanation why River would keep (presumably) her of of the way. River’s reaction doesn’t say anything as the Doctor taught her quite a bit. The Doctor lies. And so does River. Has to. Time-traveler 😉

    “In the conference call scene, River’s obviously offended or in pain when Clara doesn’t know who she is. We’ll have to wait and see whether she was simply offended that the Doctor doesn’t even mention her, or couldn’t hide her pain that her own daughter had absolutely no idea who ‘River Song’ was – not even whether she was a man or a woman.” Rings very true and probable in my ears.

    @scaryb Somehow I like that 12 is the father (in this very far-fetched theory – would change the story quite a bit and might move it away from a family program). I also like the idea in general that he reserves some days for his future self. For when he is sad, alone, desperate or really needs help. He did go back to Amy and Rory after he lost them in that cube story.
    He might have gone to to the singing towers just before he had to regenerate himself.

    @Shazzbot “Which kinda ties in with this current speculation on River-Doctor progeny. I’ve always imagined that in an actual partnership of the two, River would definitely be in charge. And the Doctor would be left holding the baby … ” I can so see that! But he would also enjoy that immensely.

    @blenkinsopthebrave That makes so much sense to me. It would also explain that the Doctor said “but you and me” and made kissing noises and was quite contempt. He wouldn’t get that from her name on the cot, would he? Why else was it important how he looked? Looking amazing for the child of your friends? He’d “better be”?
    Darn it, it will all turn out for nothing and just wishful thinking. But I am delighted that River snatched a prime spot in theorizing for now ;D

    Cheers,

    Timeloop

     

    #20336
    Whisht @whisht

    So, HurtDr is “The Doctor” in terms of being the heroic figure our doctor took his name from.

    HurtDr did something terrible (not killing all the TLs – that was our Doctor), though possibly linked (eg HrtDr gave the Daleks the weapon, our Doctor locked the TLs in Time so they couldn’t escape it).

    HurtDr is hated by rest of Universe and our Doctor hid him in his scar (our Doctor is compassionate not hateful) – (ive adapted my “marching into the scar” image).
    HurtDr will be redeemed/ forgiven.

    Past episodes will be interwoven (screeching bloody tyres!).

    Clara saw HurtDr in the book from a future memory and so faints on seeing him.

    She sees all 11 as he’s not one of them.

    None of the above will happen BUT we will have an “I am Spartacus” moment in real time due to the simulcast (and it will involve Zygons as well as 3 Doctors).

    Oh, and did I mention none of the above will happen!

    #20339
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @timeloop (thanks for long post) Re continuity porn (copyright @jimthefish)

    My best guess right now would be that some fans would get off on continuity?

    Haha – I’d say that’s a bang-on description 😉 (You have much to learn, little Timeloop, not all fans are as reasonable as we are in this forum. There are fans… and then there are Dr Who Fans 😈 )

    The more ideas we have the more probable it is that we dig out SOMEthing.

    You would think so, but you’d be surprised at how low our hit rate is, even with the mighty hive mind that is the DWF 🙂 (Which is great, and why bonkers theorising thrives. Just remember to forget them all when the actual episode starts!)

     

    #20341
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Been thinking a bit more about comments upstream about the psychic link between River/Clara…AND the Doctor (who says he can “always see” River.

    What if there’s another reason for that, other than the proposed family connection?

    What if our Doctor is already just a programme in a database somewhere – as River is? His challenge is to work out what and where he is, and escape?  (too Matrix?)

    Oh, and I quite liked @dickiegarvey‘s suggestion that the Zygons will be seemingly dealt with early – but then come back much later, and with a vengeance? (I seem to remember from they did something similar in their first appearance. Not saying they’ll be the Big Bad (who might in fact be the Doctor himself (as Hurt) – they’ve been flagged up too much in advance for that (unless it’s a double bluff (LOL) ) but they could provide a crucial plot twist.

    #20367
    Anonymous @

    @timeloop and @scaryb — am afraid I can in no way take credit for ‘continuity porn’. It’s a long-standing expression I think and I have no idea who first coined it.

    But I take it to mean references that are just put in there for the gratification of the fans and which often adversely affects the quality of the plots/alienates the casual viewer. (See Attack of the Cybermen in the first instance).

    However, in this case it looks from the trailer as if @timeloop was absolutely spot on and I suspect that I may have to directing scraping, abject apologies in their direction on the 24th…

    #20372
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @jimthefish RE continuity porn Good to know!

    IF my theory turns out to be true I will be ecstatic for days, weeks or even months!

    @scaryb Bonkers theorizing would be boring when you don’t really try to crack something before the episode is shown. Why would you want to forget something you spend weeks pondering about?

     

    #20373
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @timeloop – I think @scaryb is referring to advice I once gave. Don’t fall too in love with your own theories; I’ve seen too many fans hit the roof because the author didn’t write their story, the one they’d written in their own heads.

    Because authors and scriptwriters aren’t going to write the story we want. They’re going to write the story they want.

    So when the show starts, you have to firmly tell yourself that your theories are wonderful – but they’re all wrong. Then watch the story Steven Moffat wants to tell.

    Of course, if it turns out that you got some of it right, you are then allowed to (metaphorically) bounce around the Internet yelling ‘I told you so!’

    #20374
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @timeloop

    Why would you want to forget something you spend weeks pondering about?

    Because when you’re wrong it tends to induce feelings of ARSE* that the actual show isn’t panning out the same as your treasured theory. And the joy of Doctor Who speculation for many is when Moffat comes up with something which makes perfect sense in retrospect, but that you never thought of and which totally trumps everything you did think of!

    The joy of bonkers theorising (for me) is in following the trails of theories which can sometimes lead (through portals – watery and otherwise) into the most  delightful, esoteric alternative universes and encompass things like ancient Egyptian/Greek/Norse and other mythologies, philosphies and history. I remember a deep discussion about identity, “self” and ethics resulting from the Almost People story. And Freud (but I think the proponent of that one has thankfully dematerialised hehe).  And sometimes just silly bonkersness. it’s not always just about the show!

    (But yes, you are entirely entitled to shout “YESSSS!” if you actually do get something right. Warning – this may lead you to being ejected from the cinema and drowned in the hatred of neighbouring fans (of the ARSE type) who didn’t think of it. 😀 )

    *ARSE – A Raging Sense of Entitlement (when you think you know better than the current showrunner/team)

    #20375
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Hi Fives @bluesqueakpip 😉

    #20378
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @scaryb @bluesqueakpip Well done you two! =)

    I see what you mean. ARSE is really dangerous and contagious. Thanks. I will take a step back and watch it through unbiased eyes. Well, I will try.

    And my theory is just one way to fill Moffats framework. It doesn’t work alone. I really get the point of you two =)

    #20391
    KelseaChelsea @sirkelseachelsea

    I am so here for Rose looking like a hot mess with Bad Wolf brilliance in her.

    #20392
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @sirkelseachelsea

    That’s nice.
    I don’t mean to be rude, but are you quite certain you posted that on the right Doctor Who site?

    #20413
    Anonymous @

    The Day of the Doctor is probably going to be the best Dr Who episode ever, the trailer that I saw today I was amazing effects and looks very well made. I think the plot will be that the 10th Doctor and Rose get sent into the era with the 11th doctor  and Clara, and maybe the John Hurt Doctor is trying to ask help or something from th 10th and the 11th doctor, and the 10 and 11 are trying to act that the uknown Doctor is him. Maybe my something like this could come up in the episode. Anyway I am so exited for the 50th special on November 23rd.

    #20414
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip @phaseshift – it’s the weekend again.  Glorious, fabulous weekend.  Thank goodness there’s a new series of MasterChef: The Professionals.  😆

    #20433
    Anonymous @

    hello fellow whovians i have been reading this forum site for about a week and i have just loved everyones theories and thoughts on this episode my theory is quite simmiler to everyone elses in fact it takes aspects from everyonees and just mingles them up firstly the thing that stands out the most for me is in the pandorica opens there is a portrait which shows three tardis crashing into each other and as everyone has said there are no mistakes or coinciedes in moffats world so what i believe is that the three doctors will all crash there tardis together this also points to hurt being between the 8-9th doctor because for him to have to have the tardis he would have to of been in the doctors regen cycle.

    i also be lieve he is the docotor who ends the time war by using thhe momment

    i do however wish to see the timelords be brought back as i am an ag child i never got to live through the bg epsiodes and would find the timelords intresting and believe they could add a new diemension to the show

    i think also that clara is river song from the past because as we know she can regenerate also other spolierly tthings from the trailer point to this as well

    i would love/hate this episode to be continued into christmas hate because ive been waiting so pateintly since the name of the doctor love because i just dont think 70 mins is long enough for a story of this mangnitude and i also think smith dying/regenerating  after a story like this is just waste full

     

    anyways those are my ideas keep up the good work guys your soo intresting !!!

    #20434
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    I really am baffled by this Clara situation…

    #20436
    Anonymous @

    Ive just seen the second trailer of the 50th and its better than the first one.

    #20437
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @tennantmarsters2013

    I have edited your post above. Can you discuss what happens in the Trailer on the Trailer blog please.

    http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/sidrat/the-trailer-discuss-it-here/

    Thanks.

    #20439
    Anonymous @

    sorry i did try and keep it as non trailier as possible

     

    #20443
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @2ndand11th I noticed. Thanks for that. It was @tennantmarsters2013 that didn’t.

    #20444
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    Sorry @craig i got confused between the different threads lol I’m following both …long long day!!

    #20446
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @tennantmarsters2013 No probs, I’m a bit confused how this is going to work myself over the next couple of weeks.

    I’d rather discuss the trailer freely but some people are real spoilerphobes.

    #20447
    Tennantmarsters2013 @tennantmarsters2013

    Completely understandable Hun…

     

    ok ok away from the trailer…is Moffat actually lying when he said he has been lying these past months about any other doctor involvement barr smith hurt and tennant…

    aide note I will be gutted if jack isn’t in the 50th though

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