The Snowmen – Christmas Special 2012
31 December 2012 at 10:10 #37
The episode that started this forum. There are 4 pages of comments but the latest ones start here:
So here we can now discuss the 2012 Christmas Special. The site will be a lot cleaner and more usable in the next few days.
Christmas Eve, 1892, and the falling snow is the stuff of fairy tales. When the fairytale becomes a nightmare and a chilling menace threatens Earth, an unorthodox young governess, Clara, calls on the Doctor for help. But the Doctor is in mourning, reclusive and determined not to engage in the problems of the universe. As old friends return, will the Doctor really abandon humankind, or will he fight to save the world and Christmas from the icy clutches of this mysterious menace?
31 December 2012 at 11:45 #57
- This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Craig.
- This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Craig.
- This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Craig.
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I think I am in, but I’m not sure. Since it is night in the colonies, I will check back in the morning and see if it has worked.31 December 2012 at 12:02 #59Anonymous
Jim The Fish — in da house…..31 December 2012 at 13:08 #61
Bit of a struggle with the name function, but Bluesqueakpip now squeaking.31 December 2012 at 14:05 #63
This is great. Thanks Craig. Now I can antisocially obsess over Doctor Who all the time…31 December 2012 at 15:02 #65
If I can just interject with …. Mwahahahahahahaha!!!!!
Brilliant Craig – All I can thing of to say is “PRAISE HIM”.31 December 2012 at 15:36 #67
Cheers all. Just got in from a rather long pre-New Year lunch so great to see who’s already signed up.
It’s still a work in progress, all websites are, but post-New Year I’ll get stuck into a nice design and improve the usability a bit by cleaning up the interface. Requests for features, suggestions for structure or look and feel, criticisms etc. are most welcome (although may not always be possible to do/change!)31 December 2012 at 17:27 #101
Just wanted to say thanks Craig!
Not sure if I’ll post anything, but happy to be along for the ride!31 December 2012 at 18:57 #103
I have nothing brilliant, semi-brilliant, or even coherent to say, but having lurked on the Guardian blog so long I just had to be a part of it. The post-episode postings of this group are as much fun as the show.31 December 2012 at 19:53 #105
Top work Dude. I felt the need to an ID shift. Formerly a hammer of the pedantic variety.31 December 2012 at 20:22 #107
Happy to be here and some familiar names swimming around. Thanks again Craig – this should be fun!31 December 2012 at 22:29 #109
Avatar is back (sort of). Still a work in progress. Still getting used to site, but…a working site for bonkers theorising! Hurrah! Endless thanks to Craig!
OK, will play around with avatar, and come back with all the thoughts that were stimulated by the prodigious amounts of New Year’s champagne.31 December 2012 at 22:54 #111
As someone who is travelling the slow path in 2012, may I ask how 2013 is looking for you lucky people?31 December 2012 at 23:16 #113
OK, it is New Year’s day in the colonies, and I imagine that most of the Enthusiasts and various fishes (even the fish who is not a fish but a free man) are still celebrating and drinking like…well…fish. So I will start the new year with some thoughts.
There are still some great new ideas circulating back on the Guardian blog about the Doctor remembering. Given that I think this will be a major factor in 2013, over on the Guardian blog over the past couple of weeks, I and others have played around with the idea that Clara could be a Pond. I am now willing to nail my colours to the mast and state that Clara will turn out to be the Doctor’s daughter for the following reasons:
1. It has been stated (somewhere…BBC?) that Clara will turn out to be the most important person in the Doctor’s life.
2. Under Moffat, there has been an overwhelming emphasis on “family”. Season 5: Amy, the little girl with no family, who remembers her family back into existence at her wedding. Season 6: River is revealed to be Amy’s daughter, and the Doctor marries River. The family is both revealed and expanded.
3. At Demon’s Run, just before River reveals her identity to Amy, she reveals to the Doctor who is is, but in an oblique and unstated way, by taking his hand and placing it on his cot (“I am telling you”). I believe what she is telling him is that she is the mother of his child.
4. In “Forest of the Dead” just before River dies, she whisper’s the Doctor’s name to him. He is astounded, because he would only have revealed his name at the most important of times. What could be more important that the birth of a child?
5. Back in Moffat’s two-parter “Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead” we are introduced to a little girl who turns out to be the mainframe of the computer that controls the library: CAL–Charlotte Abigal Lux. In “Asylum of the Daleks” we are introduced to a girl who turns out to be the mainframe of a Dalek. In “The Snowmen” we find out her full name is Clara Oswin Oswald–COO, or CO2, or “water”. Water, Pond, River.
6. Clara knows enough about the Doctor to know that the one word that will galvanise him into action is “pond”.
7. She spends part of the episode taking his hand and running, to which the Doctor replies something along the lines of: “Hey, I’m supposed to do that!”.
Now, if I am right, Clara is the daughter of the Doctor and River. But not necessarily the 11th Doctor. After all, River has been meeting the Doctor out of order and, if I remember correctly, she has seen the faces of all of the Doctors (ie, including those from the future).
Over on the Guardian blog, @Nathaniel Morgan made the excellent suggestion that the 50th will go back to the origins of the Doctor and his intial departure from Gallifrey, and the amazing @bluesqueakpip followed it up with:
It could also make an anniversary connection with his first companion, his granddaughter Susan. It’s now generally presumed Susan was his biological granddaughter (rather than someone he’d found when she was a baby).
If Clara turns out to be the Doctor’s daughter, then it is highly likely that she is the mother of Susan.
So, if, as I believe, Moffat always writes about family (the loss of family, the rediscovery of family in everything he has done for Who (including, if you think about it “Blink”), then we are leading up to a huge revelation about family.31 December 2012 at 23:18 #1151 January 2013 at 00:38 #117
Happy New year! I think that Blenkinsop may have it! On the full confidential for AGMGTW, Alex Kingston said something like: ‘Yes but who else was in the cot?’, whilst pulling a wry smile. Now there’s only incestual snogging to overcome… And why she keeps dying… And……1 January 2013 at 00:38 #119
I’ve just joined after several months of being a lurker.
I like the idea of Clara being related to Susan.1 January 2013 at 00:46 #121
Thanks, Craig.1 January 2013 at 02:20 #123
I’m in! After I realised I has misspelt my user name when registering.Damn hangover.
Anyone know how I can change to bobbingbird? Bobbibgbird just doesn’t quite do it for me. Craig can you help? And thanks for setting this up.
I can’t believe Blenkinsop isn’t hungover. I give you in evidence: CO2 is carbon dioxide, not water Even I know that, and I’m crap at chemistry. Other than that, a good summary, brave one. I don’t thin Clara is the Dr and River’s daughter, though. I think that’d be stretching the River story too far.
I love Nathaniel’s theory over on the Guardian site; that Clara will take us and The Doctor right back to the beginning when, as a young Dr, he steals the Tardis and runs. And that there is something he has forgotten which she will help him remember.
I watched Blink again, yesterday. By gahd it’s good.1 January 2013 at 02:22 #125
Yay! Fixed it. I am bobbingbird again!1 January 2013 at 02:54 #127
@bobbingbird. I knew there was a reason why I failed science at all levels at the end of high school. Damn! And the theory seemed so good up until that point. Oh well, back to the Kennedy theory, I suppose…
Then again, if Sherlock doesn’t know that the earth goes round the sun, why should I let inconvenient evidence get in the way of a good theory!1 January 2013 at 03:11 #129
Riffing freely on @blenkinsopthbrav
CAL – Charlotte Abigail Lux – Cal = the bringer of light. Creator of worlds. One the first day….
River/ Pond – the Elixir of life – water. The Second day…
So we need dry ground (Earth), the Sun and the stars, sea creatures and birds, animals and Man.
And on the Seventh Day he rested. Or regenerated, as the case may be. Or did some begating.1 January 2013 at 13:02 #131
As a phase shifting chemist can I just say I’m disgusted with myself for not making the CO2 reference myself?
Carbon Dioxide is one of the few materials that, when it melts, changes phases directly from solid to gas (without the undoubted stress of having to be a liquid). Such materials are said to “Sublime” or undergo “Sublimation”.
In Ian M Banks sci-fi “Culture” novels, “to sublime” is to cast of the physical form and evolve to another intellectual plane (become disembodied). Hmmmm.1 January 2013 at 13:05 #133
Ugh, my head feels like a box of broken biscuits, but Happy New Year to everyone! We are now officially in the 50th Anniversary year. Looking forward to many exciting times here and on the screen. Glad to see so many more people signed up, even some of my fellow lurkers. Talking of which, @SallySparrow is right, the discussions here are just as much fun, if not more so, than the show itself, and long may they continue.
I’m really torn between theories. I love @blenkinsopthebrave‘s theory that Clara is the Doctor’s daughter. It is a great idea which I want to be true, it would pull everything right around to the beginnings of Who, and as Nathaniel Morgan said, could lead to an origins story for the 50th. That would be fantastic and has been continually hinted at in the Eleventh’s reign in episodes such as The Big Bang (telling the young Amy how he stole a blue box) and The Doctor’s Wife (Idris blabbing out all his secrets from his past). All of that could well be all foreshadowing of an origins story.
However, I find it hard to fit that to the facts. Clara seems to be some sort of entity that we haven’t met before – a time travelling, death defying being. So I’m leaning more towards the theories regarding her as some sort of computer program version of a person (like River’s final state – obviously something Moffat is keen on) that has become part of the Tardis via download and so can appear when the Doctor needs her. He was at his lowest in the Christmas episode and suddenly she turns up and he is instantly smitten (in a non-romantic way) and starts living again.
That’s my take so far, but I await all of your fantastic musing. Some of them will turn out to be bonkers, some of them will be incredibly prescient, and some of them will be better than anything Moffat finally comes up with. You are all clever, clever people and once again, I wish you a Happy New Year.1 January 2013 at 14:09 #135Anonymous
Well, here we are. Thanks again to Craig for sorting this. It’s much appreciated.
I have to say, that much as I like it, I don’t think the Clara as the Doctor’s daughter idea is going to prove correct and tend to agree with Blenkinsop’s ideas that she’s connected to either the TARDIS or to River, or both. Something that occurred to me recently is that Claire, which I believe is another version of the name Clara, is also a computer language. Perhaps we are looking here at the post-Silence in the Library River converted to data and now somehow escaped from CAL and achieved some kind of external sentience…. (or possibly it’s the mince pies talking)1 January 2013 at 15:26 #137
I don’t really go for the Doctor’s daughter by River – I still think there was a reason Steven Moffat wanted Jenny alive. And Oswin referred to her ‘Mum’, who was having a birthday.
But I’d agree that ‘family’ is a really important theme for Moffat. So it’s quite likely Clara Oswin Oswald is somehow ‘family’.
Okay; looking back over the first episodes of this season, I note that the female voice over for two of the computers has still not been credited. That’s got to be significant; the street-cred of Who at the moment is enormous – I can’t think of any actor who wouldn’t want that credit on their CV.
So I still think those voice-overs were done by Jenna-Louise Coleman. Anyone found evidence to the contrary?
So she may be a person fractured in time. And she may also be inhabiting the TARDIS.
Regarding the computers: Oswin – Operating System WINdows. Oswald - Object-Oriented Software for the Analysis of Longitudinal Data. Clara – Claranet, a very big European ISP. So far all her ‘genuine’ names are based around computing. COO = Computer: object orientated?
Another thought: Clara and Montague are both Irish names (Clara is an Irish town) – and ‘Gallifrey’ is often mistaken for ‘somewhere in Ireland’ when Brits first hear the name. Is Clara also a Gallifreyan name, and that’s why the Doctor liked it so much?1 January 2013 at 15:40 #139
You know, when I was going on about Oswin being an artificial person, I thought I was being deeply original, but it’s only just occurred to me that I was probably just thinking about the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica who, when they died, transferred consciousness to another body.
I feel strangely inadequate now. Happy New Year everyone!1 January 2013 at 17:27 #141
Aaa, my first post in our new home. Hopefully it will work….
Re: Clara being related to the Doctor either through Jenny or River.
I think Clara kissing the Doctor puts the kibosh on that one, how could you explain it to the kiddiwinks? Some kind of universal consciousness I can go along with however especially after @bluesqueakpip‘s spot about Claranet (I knew the name Clara sounded a bit familiar in that respect).
On a slightly separate note, I was looking up 1866 to see if there was anything of significance happening (sans Dr Who) and the best I could come up with was that H G Wells was born that year. *clutches at straws*1 January 2013 at 17:36 #143
Greetings Whovians, the NYD fog permits no insights into your many inventive (and occasional bonkers) theories, but it will clear and with luck I may be able to contribute the occasional apercu. Whether or not, I will enjoy yours, and am glad this has been set up so fill the long gaps between Guardian blogs.1 January 2013 at 18:43 #145
I think Clara kissing the Doctor puts the kibosh on that one, how could you explain it to the kiddiwinks?
No, that’s relatively simple. Clara discovers the Doctor is her grandfather. And screams “Nooo! I kissed my granddad!”
The kids would laugh their socks off. Especially if the Doctor replies “I know. The last time I did that, she turned out to be my mother-in-law.”1 January 2013 at 18:55 #147
Greetings and a happy new year to you all. Is everyone in 2013 now?A brand new blog for the anniversary year – feels good (Kudos to the Keymaster). And long may it stay a troll free zone (Had a little makeover to celebrate (ie couldn’t find my other pic!))
re Clara – some slightly fuzzy alcohol-induced thoughts
Great work on all the computer refs @BluesqueakpipIt would seem likely she’s some sort of computer generation – but is there an original Clara controlling it, or is she unaware of what she is and someone/thing else is controlling her appearances? Or maybe it’s just random. Why was she shown completely uninjured after the fall? I know it’s Xmas Day teatime, but not even a token little scratch? (Or the computer refs are Moff having a tease)
Is she a timelady with a fob watch somewhere – the fob watch sending out the equivalent of SOS signal (maybe it looks for passing time lords) – otherwise you’d think the Doctor would sense “timelord” from her. That also applies if she’s “family” Evidence? No idea – it just bubbled up as a possibility!
Something to do with the TARDIS? (evidence – the way she turns up at crucial times, “run”; But she doesn’t have that multi-faceted way of not quite making sense when she talks, the way Idris did, so although I like the idea, am not convinced yet)
Is she River working on an escape from the virtual reality (which must be driving her bonkers by now)? Evidence – the way she talks, she’s clever, flirty and mysterious
Something that connects with his past on Galifrey (I like the idea of an origin story… so long as he leaves some questions (given it’s Moff I think more questions than answers are extemely likely)) (If she’s Susan’s mum that’s a problem as something must have happened to her if the Dr runs off with her as a baby (or when she’s older – no saying she couldn’t have joined as a teenager)) <hmmm – new(ish) theory developing…?!!>
“Run you clever boy” – To or from…?
Will Clara somewhere/when need rescued for real?
Do we think they’re going to tease her mystery out throughout the season, or resolve it more quickly and get on to adventures?
@Bluesqueakpip ‘s noticing re the voiceovers. I wondered them too (hadn’t noticed it wasn’t credited) but it didn’t sound like JLC
I also liked the recent theory someone came up with about a semi-sentient universe (but not in a way that we’d recognise as even semi-sentient!) that actually does care
Moffat’s methods – I think as a writer he starts with a dramatic visual or two (11 hanging on by his fingernails as out of control tardis flies over London, Dr being locked in Pandorica, Amy glooped, the staircase etc) and a mind-bending idea that knocks something you’ve taken for granted upside down (see above). He likes to drop clues early on but also red herrings. He likes to play with names, which may or may not be significant to the plot
Conclusions – no idea!!1 January 2013 at 18:59 #149
I have a slightly bonkers addition to all this.
best sit down with a glass of something methinks (or is this how this idea started…?)
If Clara is River’s daughter, I think she’s the daughter from within CAL.
Meaning that Clara is an OS (of sorts), but completely capable of sorting out Dalek’s OS’s etc.
Now, how did she gain form..? No idea (but whatever it is, its how she gains ‘form’ throughout time).
How did I come by such an outlandish idea? Well, I’ve been trying to anagram her full name (Clara Oswin Oswald), which has addled my head, and have got 2 that gave me the idea (which surely means I’m barking up the wrong timestream):
DW now L; Clara is a OS
DW now L; CAL’s OS aria
Has anyone ever spotted aria in relation to the Library/CAL story?
right, I need another drink….. (or maybe not)1 January 2013 at 19:54 #151
ok, that was a barmy idea, and prefer ScaryB’s idea that maybe she’s River out of the CAL world (oh, “CAL world” was another bit of anagramming… gawd that stuff mucks you around…).
Anyway, even though my working out is rubbish, I actually quite like “Aria” but no idea if its going anywhere!
Only things I can add are from insomnia and Wikipedia (so not gospel!):
I think Moffat was looking at other anniversaries and groupings of multiple DRs.
Clara’s birthday is the date first and 20th broadcast (the Five Doctors) went out (23rd November).
In the The Five Doctors, we are where it all began, Omega, Rasillon, Eye of Harmony, and why he stole the TARDIS and had to run… (do I remember it right that the TARDIS told him to “Run you clever boy” as he was a ‘boy’ when he stole it?).
The Eight Doctors (book) has Master, memory loss, visiting each DR incarnation to ‘remember’ and crosses into Trial of a Time Lord.
The Three Doctors has Omega, Brigadier and mention of the Yetis.
BTW was it the Great Intelligence that took over the TARDIS and exploded it/crashed it into Amy Ponds garden? I’ve probbly missed something there(!)
And for no other reason than throwing in another red fish, I came across a companion well before my time called Victoria Waterfield (water again!), who would go on to have computer experience… this isn’t massively serious, and I know its not right as the actress actually bears a resemblance to Clara which is way too much of a coincidence!
I wonder if “insomnia” is a good name for wiki for daft thoughts…?
;¬)1 January 2013 at 21:18 #153
Morning all. Reading the recent posts, leads me off in another (but related) direction. In light of the suggestions that Clara might exist in some version of the Library, how about the idea of Clara as Avatar? Not simply in the computer, or James Cameron, sense, but in the religious sense as an avatar as the representation of the divine in the real world? (Has this and below already been pointed out? If so, profuse apolgies.)
Our resident chemist, @PhaseShift, notes that CO2 possesses qualities that are sublime. The old English/old German meaning of Oswin were God’s gift, and God’s power, respectively.
Now, I am not sure I want to buy into this interpretation. It seems too far removed from the origins of the show, but I suppose it is worthwhile noting.
Off to work now. Back later.1 January 2013 at 22:20 #155
Whoops. I meant that the old meanings of both Oswin and Oswald were God’s gift and God’s power respectively.
Back to work.1 January 2013 at 22:28 #157
Sorry, can’t help myself. It also occured to me that the Great Intelligence in “The Abominable Snowmen” came from, and was banished back to, the astral plane.
Obviously, my mind is not on work.1 January 2013 at 23:47 #159
Glad to see the new blog up and running…
I’ve just been watching the episode again in a traditional hunt for clues and noticed a couple of points:
1) Mirrors – the Doctor looks into them at least twice, then mentions the ice governess is ‘mirroring’ what she sees.
2) When Clara’s bustle gets stuck in the window when she and the Doctor are trying to escape, she falls on top of him which mirrors River Song’s entrance into the Tardis in Time of Angels.
I’m wondering if #2 means that she could indeed be an incarnation of River….*lights first pipe of the new blog*2 January 2013 at 01:26 #161
Lots of discussion about Clara being computer related. In A Good Man, Colonel ‘Runaway’ talks about “The Papal Mainframe Herself”.
Hmmmm. Is Clara the Papal Mainframe made flesh?
It would fit in nicely with what has gone on before during Moffatt and Smith’s tenure.
*puts thinking cap on to further formulate theory*2 January 2013 at 03:43 #163
Lunch. Back to important things. I have been thinking about @chickenelly‘s thought that Clara might be an (re)incarnation of River. To support it, does not River say to Amy in the “Angels” something along the lines of: “Never let him see you get old. He doesn’t like it.” Therefore, (running with this idea) when River finds a way of becoming an avatar of herself in the library it is as a young women. But why? I suppose the reasoning is somewhat similar to Hugh Hefner’s choice of wives–1000 year-old man likes to be married to 26 year-old.
No, this is sounding too daft. If it is River, there has to be a really good reason for it, beyond the Hugh Hefner rationale.
But if she was his daughter (even an avatar from the library somehow) it would have a good narrative logic (ie, all my reasons above, minus the embarrassing chemistry mistake).
More thought required. Lunch break coming to an end. Damn.2 January 2013 at 04:05 #165
Hi. Wave to all. Happy New Year.
Joined yesterday but was too tired to post after a very night NYE and early NYD event.
You have all been busy generating wonderful theories while I have been recovering. I like the suggestion that Clara is Susan’s mother though I don’t think she is River. I have been hoping to revist the Susan character who was essentially forgotten. She would have outlived the lover and what would become of her then, a lone time lady on earth?I had an idea for a story based upon him rediscovering a regenerated Susan.
We don’t really know why the Doctor ran from Gallifrey and the constant reference to running could allude to that. It would be interesting to explore that in the anniversary episode. Maybe he was in danger and Susan’s grandmother (Clara) told him to run with the child, intending to follow or expecting he would return when it was safe to do so. Perhaps she was unable to accompany him but somehow managed to escape by splintering herself through the universe, to lie in wait for over fifty years, for him. There was an element of familiarity in the way she kissed him. River may not be the Doctor’s first “Wife”, though if no 1 is living he would be a bigamist. Umm. Can’t see the BBC venturing there in a children’s show so maybe that scratches out that bonkers idea. Then again this is 2013 not 1963.2 January 2013 at 10:02 #167
Hya just one thought. I noticed in the first part of the season the doctor said ‘It’s new’ or ‘this is new’ in every episode. (I think.) And two times in this episode the doctor and his friend referred to the memory snow as being ‘new.’ However, i have learned from you lot on the other blog that the Great Intelligence itself is most certainly not ‘new’- or shouldn’t be, to the doctor. And the other repeated phrase from the first half was to do with remembering. I can imagine with the anniversary Moffit will want to mix in a lot of new and old. The current Who universe has crashed, been reset, rebooted and restored as often as my computer hard drive (which is a lot). Is it really the same universe as that of his predecessors, in any sense other than if you change the handle of a broom, and then the brush, its the same broom?2 January 2013 at 11:31 #169
@Miapatrick Re rebooted universe – I think we’re meant to believe it’s pretty much the same as the old universe – but obv – much like your rebooted computer hard drive – it leaves them scope to tweak it a bit (some things won’t have survived the crash, unexpected new things may appear).
@Blenkinsopthebrave (sympathies on work – still enjoying holiday here – occasionally Scotland is almost civilised!) One reason for reinventing River could be a practical one. It’s been 5 years since SitL (which we know is the oldest she’ll get) and AK will be 50 this year, don’t know if her schedule will fit with more Dr Who. (I hope not, but it’s a thought that keeps occurring). Or a River protege as @Whisht suggested.
Re Avatars/god things – see ref above to semi-sentient universe (but not in the way we’d know it!) – I quite like this idea but can’t help thinking it will be something more “concrete”
@bobbingbird – Papal mainframe – sorry, don’t buy this one tho it’s good to explore every possibility. I think that was just a neat throwaway line.
@chickenelly – nice call on mirrors; may just be “texture” but one to look out for
@Whisht BTW was it the Great Intelligence that took over the TARDIS and exploded it/crashed it into Amy Ponds garden? I’ve probbly missed something there(!) Maybe not the actual crash, but there are a few scenes with an unseen sinister voice which is still unaccounted for. I have a suspicion the GI will make a return appearance this season, because of the fact the doctor didn’t remember it. But I’m probably wrong. Again!
More thoughts on running – it’s what the Doctor always does. “Run” has been his catch phrase for a while. So while “run” may be significant re Clara, it’s also what the Doctor does when he’s excited. “New” also suggests he’s excited and curious.
Last thoughts for now – I loved the way the Doctor was so excited when he was showing Clara round the TARDIS.2 January 2013 at 12:16 #171
Just came across this video clip on the Who website – http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0129kly – Moffat explaining that he thinks Day of the Daleks is one of who’s finest stories. It introduces Blinovitch and the Doctor’s status as a time traveller -Moff says – “a handy get out. the Doctor can interfere because he’s outside the history”
Also this one – talking about The Evil of the Daleks – http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogdrwho/articles/Day-4-Steven-Moffat-on-The-Evil-of-the-Daleks
Moffat talking about how he loves juxtaposition of the unexpected in Who, and about it being a mistake to make the daleks bigger “they’re scarier when they’re wee”. (Pity he didn’t think that before he let the design dept come up with the new paradigm daleks)
Daleks are featured heavily on the Who site at the moment – does this suggest they’ll make a return later? Is it all in the first episode? ie Oswin, realising she’s been dalekised at the end, doesn’t blow herself up but transfers herself into the dalek mainframe? (I know this isn’t a new idea, just throwing it back in the ring). Since then she’s either throwing out “avatars” to give herself an alternative existence (eternity gets boring presumably), or she’s trying to make contact with the Doctor, as the person who can give her a physical form again. Somehow. Or because she likes him. Or maybe too like River in the library.2 January 2013 at 12:20 #173
There’s an edit function!!! (at least for most recent posts)
<blows kisses @Craig >2 January 2013 at 12:57 #175Anonymous
one the ‘new’ thing. Maybe these things are new to ‘this’ Doctor, but not ‘the’ Doctor. i.e. we’re back to the idea that there are (and have been) two Doctors running about all this time…
And more generally…
I don’t think that Clara will turn out to be an incarnation of River. Quite apart from anything else it seems a wee bit disrespectful of the stellar work Alex Kingston has put in. It’s one thing to lob in a regeneration for necessity, but because an actor is getting a bit long in the tooth is quite another. Besides River’s maturity and experience is a fundamental part of her character…
Nor do I really buy the quasi-religious ideas being mooted now. I think it just runs too counter to the basic ethos of the show, which is a belief and adherence in science and reason. While I believe that Who is more of a fantasy show than it is SF based, this has always been at its core from Hartnell onwards and I think for such an element of mysticism to be introduced now would jar far too much — especially in anniversary year…2 January 2013 at 14:29 #177
Not sure if these add anything to the mix. But I couldn’t help notice both Oswin/COOs appearances have featured telepathy:
Oswin: The Daleks, they have a hive mind. Well they don’t, but they have a sort of telepathic web.
The Doctor: The pathweb, yes.
Oswin: I hacked into it. Did a master delete on all the information connected with the Doctor
And as I think @ScaryB mentioned on the G blog, Clara seemed to get a really unusually strong reaction from the telepathic snow. Maybe she is a telepath (even if she’s not fully aware of it). It would certainly explain her use of “Pond” as a key word (by sensing the term from Jenny or Vastra). Would the act of being in the TARDIS allow her to bond with its telepathic circuits?
Loving the mirroring ideas and references.
Anyway hello again to new and old faces. I’m going to have to deal with my IT issues, but I will be back on Friday to have a play with this new format. If anyone is interested I mentioned that the Eighth Doctor is back on Radio 4 Extra on this coming Monday at 6o’clock. Maybe if others (who can) are going to listen we can establish a separate thread to talk about it.
Also hope we get a few more people coming over and in as the weekend comes in!2 January 2013 at 14:47 #179
Maybe she is a telepath (even if she’s not fully aware of it).
Errmm… oh, wow.
Because Susan had/has unusually strong telepathic abilities. It was a major plot point in The Sensorites.2 January 2013 at 14:59 #181
The unaccounted for voice that said ‘Silence will fall’ is obviously Emperor Palpatine cos that’s who it sounds like.
Perhaps the Papal mainframe is Xoanan gone mad again?
Is Clara a Data Ghost manifest in ‘the Flesh’, then?
Will there ever be a ‘hard science’ explanation for the return of Rory & the Dr from unexistence & obliteration (other than wedding rings, bow ties & braces help one remember them back)?
If time becomes fixed once it’s written down, then I say….. ‘Some years later, after Dr Who’s best run ever, the new showrunner took over (once every loose end since series 5 had been explained)’.
If Paul McGann returns for the anniversary, will his Dr’s human mother be mentioned & indeed rewritten? (Or has the mystery woman from The End of Time effectively done this?)
”Now he prefers isolation to the possibility of pain’s return. Kindly choose a word to indicate your understanding of this.”
”Man.”2 January 2013 at 15:00 #183Anonymous
This is all getting very interesting….
Perhaps Clara is going to in fact be Susan. If she turns out to be say, Jenny’s daughter, and Moffatt’s reboot of the Doctor’s memory is complete by the anniversary year, then maybe what he’s aiming for is sending the show out beyond its anniversary year with a relatively baggage-free Doctor travelling with his granddaughter (all ready to meet Ian and Barbara)…
I wonder if the final shot of the anniversary year will be the TARDIS landing in a junkyard in 1963…2 January 2013 at 15:05 #185
Is WOTAN coming back? Will he say ‘Dr Who is required’ through Wi-Fi?
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