The Time of the Doctor – the 2013 Christmas Special

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@phaseshift – yes. And we don’t know context – the actual episode might have number-to-be-determined Smith’s Doctor previously asking Clara to not call him her boyfriend, because everyone thinks he’s her boyfriend and he’s not.

So he’s then doing the most deeply inappropriate thing you can imagine on purpose. 😉

[janetteB @janetteb]

Have finally found time to read through this thread, (many more to go..) I agree with @Shazzbot that the Doctor and Clara have now safely left the time line. The special may involve a return to it, or events that flow from it. I don’t think the events of tdotd (shift key not working) took place within the time line. I liked @thommck‘s theory that the silence are escaped time lords. I also liked @juniperfish‘s baby in the crib idea. Clara did suggest she was a “time child” being born behind a clock, in the Snowmen. I have always wanted that story to have some significance. I have not had time to think of any wild bonkers theories and think this time I will just sit back and enjoy what enfolds. (that might change once I get the xmas cards done, the workshop I’ve been asked to give sorted and the picnic which I am hosting organised, not the mention the convention which I’m supposed to be planning. Thank goodness I don’t have areal job.)

cheers

Janette

 

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p01mzt54    (New images from official advent Calendar)

Country Channel Day Time
United Kingdom BBC1 Christmas Day 7:30pm GMT
Germany FOX Christmas Day 9:35pm CET
Latin/South America BBC HD Christmas Day 2:00pm CST *
Canada SPACE Christmas Day 8:00pm EST
United States BBC America Christmas Day 9:00pm EST
Australia ABC1 Boxing Day 7:30pm AEST
South Africa BBC Entertainment time tbc SAST **
Scandinavia/Poland BBC Entertainment 29th December 7:00pm CET
* time reported on the BBC HD website (may well be 3:00pm in reality – also repeated on BBC Entertainment at 7:00/8:00pm)
** time to be confirmed, BBC Entertainment currently has a “Programme to be Confirmed” slot for 11:30am
PRIME in New Zealand is expected to announce the time of broadcast next week.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Ooh, a wooden Cyberman. And the Sonic ‘doesn’t do wood’.

[Magnetite @magnetite]

@wolfweed @Bluesqeakpip

That wooden Cyberman is pretty amazing. Even if it isn’t real wood but some sort of resin (I’m no expert), it still must be one of the best props in the series. The bit in the middle of its chest isn’t wood though, so the Sonic might have some use 😉

And from the broadcast times, it looks as if TTotD might have a pretty huge audience worldwide too.

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

Some of the new images are tantalizing! The two-stream, multi-personality Doctor theory could be hinted at! (If this is saying too much, please remove)

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@ardaraith I haven’t seen them, but I will do a double-fishy two bow-ties dance of joy if dark Eleven (Valeyard) vs Eleven comes to fruition.

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

@juniperfish – speaking of cots……

Have you seen the new pics released by BBC America? Baby!!

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@ardaraith What?!?!?! Is that the new picture?? Link?? God, I am supposed to sleep X_x!

[Timeloop @timeloop]

@ardaraith Oh, you are bad. I wanna look, but I don’t want to look. Im going to ned. Nighty-night.

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

@timeloop – I do apologise.   I presume since these have been released, it’s acceptable to link here.

 

[Anonymous @]

in order to welcome Dr Capaldi, I wanted to put in a few lines from The Thick of It that aren’t too rude but which I personally love: (waaay off topic but hey, it’s Christmas?)

• she’s a knitted scarf
• he’s so dense that light bends
• I have a to-do list longer than a Leonard Cohen song
• more on my plate than a spinster at a wedding
• I just need a mammal with a head
• PFI stands for Pretty F***** Embarrassing if you’re sloppy with the details
• You’re so back bench you’ve fallen off
• You’re the Omni-shambles: from bean to cup you f*** up
• you’re the one with egg on your face you over-easy slop!
• OK, Yoko Ono and the two remaining Beatles
• I’m everywhere, I am the egg man
• If you say anything, I’ll make you stay here and rehearse saying nothing
• I’ve had muggings that have lasted longer

all copyright to The Thick of It and productions….:)

[The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman]

@purofilion here’s some of my favourites

How dare you call me a bully. I’m so much worse then that.

You’re not even Manchester’s top Malcolm Tucker tribute band.

Climb the mountain of conflict? You sound like a nazi Julie Andrews.

[The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman]

@ardaraith
Children’s drawings? Oh no, don’t tell me the girl from Fear Her is coming back.

[Anonymous @]

@thekrynoidman (love that avatar); no the pictures are more or less terrifying 🙂

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@ardaraith – I can’t see a baby. I can see the Dr’s cot. I can see a Smiler in a booth. It’s like a ‘Smith Dr’ visual episode guide!

As for the other pix – Punch & Judyness is back (with a Monoid twist)! Yay!

 

Bonkers theory: What if it turns out Matt Smith’s tenure was all a dream & he wakes up in the shower as Tennant (a la Bobby in Dallas)?

 

[Anonymous @]

I don’t know if this is a theory.  But the next time there are many Doctors will John Hurt come back?  Patrick Troughton came back with Colin Baker for The Two Doctors.   So maybe for the 55th special we will see John Hurt, David Tennant, Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi?  If Peter Capaldi doesn’t last 5 years then there will be another one after him, and it will be another Five Doctors special.  Just a thought.

@wolfweed

I don’t know about showers but what if Peter Capaldi has memory flashbacks to The War Doctor?  What if the Christmas regeneration starts to look like John Hurt before it settles on Peter Capaldi?  I think we could see many faces in the regeneration before it ends because The Doctor has many faces he might want to try on until he decides that the Roman he met with Donna is the right one.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

Great post, @TheFerret.

I especially like your face change ideas.

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@wolfweed and @ardaraith – I’m wondering about Anthony. I’ve been wondering about Anthony for quite a bit; ever since they publicly announced his existence by releasing the storyboard, but chose not to film it.

I mean Anthony Brian Williams, the adopted son of Amy and Rory Williams. Those are very much the sort of pictures you’d expect from a kid brought up by Amy and Rory – possibly with visits from River – and primed with bedtime stories about The Doctor.

It could just be a nice little call-back to the Ponds, at the end of Matt’s run. ‘We’re all just stories in the end’?

Or it could be that there was another reason beyond the thematic that they had to drop that scene – namely, Anthony is more important than just being a coda to the Pond-Williams story.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

@bluesqueakpip – Tony, Tony, Tony….. Well I expect some kind of nod to the Ponds.

(Tony Brian Williams) – TBW – Is an acronym for ‘Time-Bandwidth Product’… & also ‘To Be Watched’…….

(Anthony Brian Williams) ABW is an acronym for ‘Available Bandwidth’… & also ‘All best wishes’…….

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@wolfweed – alas, I think it’s just a combination of the Pond naming traditions – Augustus, Amelia, Anthony – with the Williams family (middle name is the paternal grandparent’s).

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

Notice the Silent in the frieze…

Also, see the Smith Dr meet the Slitheen…….

[Anonymous @]

@TheFerret – damn, you stole my one and only theory.  😀  I spent the last 4 hours ostensibly doing real work, and mucked up a few lines of code in the process because I was wondering what I really want to see in the Christmas Special.

All I could think of was very similar to your post.  I agree with you, I want to see a regeneration sequence that takes longer than we’ve seen before, and passes briefly over many possible faces.  (I thought we might see the elder Tom Baker in the mix, too, based on his surprise cameo in The Day of the Doctor.)  It’s unlikely that Moffat would do anything like the Comic Relief special and have potential new bodies/faces walking and talking for a few minutes between re-regenerations.  But there has been a lot of speculation on how SM will resolve Peter Capaldi the actor being The Twelfth Doctor without at least a nod toward PC’s previous acting work in the DW world.

So you and I are now two votes (and with @wolfweed perhaps three?) for an elongated and interesting regeneration sequence in The Time of the Doctor.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@wolfweed – he’s already met the Slitheen when The Pandorica Opened.
🙂

[Yeah, I had to look it up as well. But I think they hauled every usable alien-costume out for that episode.]

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@ardaraith The Doctor’s cot is certainly prominent… I’m calling it – “Dr. Who and the Storks of Time”.

@wolfweed “What if it turns out Matt Smith’s tenure was all a dream & he wakes up in the shower with Tennant”

Get thee and thy fan fiction to the Fan Creativity thread! What do you mean, it’s me?

That scenario would make a lot of fans happy, to be honest 🙂

[Craig @craig Emperor]

The BBC has issued an official trailer. Don’t click if you don’t want to know anything at all (Not much in it, but maybe a couple of things could be seen as revealing).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01n75m9

Do we need a thread for discussion of the trailer? I know we did it for the 50th but it did seem like we were creating multiple threads to try and cater to everyone, when the only way to really stay spoiler free is to avoid the internet.

Your thoughts are most welcome.

[Juniperfish @juniperfish]

@craig – Trailers are always the grey area between Spoilers and Speculation threads – the third time-stream!

I vacillate as to whether I engage with them – wibbley-wobbley and unhelpful I know.

Why not have a trailers thread, as it’s Christmas 🙂

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

That trailer seems quite spoofy to me; very over-the-top (or does it just remind me of an American ‘action’ film?). I will keep my hope in Moffat.  After the deliciousness that was the 50th, my fingers (and bow-ties) are crossed that the Christmas Special will be just as happy-making.

@juniperfish – Doctor Who and the Storks of Time!  Babies for all!

[Craig @craig Emperor]

@juniperfish @ardaraith and everyone else.

I have taken the third time-stream. As Juniperfish says, it IS Christmas.

New blog set up for discussion of the trailer, and any other trailers that appear in the next couple of weeks (with the usual protection built in on the Activity streams).

http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/trailers/trailers-the-christmas-special-2013/

We now have two Christmas threads (three if you count the spoilers thread) but what can you do? We try 😀

[ardaraith @ardaraith]

@craig, might you move my comment #22662?  It does reference action *in* the trailer.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/The-Time-of-the-Doctor-The-Interviews

[Rob @rob]

@wolfweed

Could be a Weeping Angel in the snow or it could be a frozen in time citizen of Pompeii ??? One who reminds the Doctor of someone as he regenerates ???

Back to the coffee pot then 😉

[Anonymous @]

@rob – what if it’s not an angel or, at least, a ‘proper’ one?

Bonkers thought – in TToA/FaS, Amy began to turn to stone (or thought she was) and then there was The Mayor of New x 15 York (New Earth) who had that disease that was turning him to stone.

Could this be the petrified form of The Doctor’s saviour?

Any more coffee in that pot? I think I need some 😉

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Re: the figure in the snow.

What happens at the end of The Pandorica Opens? The universe ends, the stars go out and – silence falls. Even the music stops mid-beat.

Then in The Big Bang we see those stone ‘echo figures’ – after images of races that never existed. So that might be a stone ‘echo figure’ that we see after silence has fallen.

[Rob @rob]

@fatmaninabox

Always coffee in the pot for members of this forum 😀

I think it’s possible that the figure in the snow isn’t an actual angel but hey I’m usually bonkers and wrong hahah

Am trying to figure out how the new face is chosen and not getting there yet, good job I’m not the show runner lol

[Craig @craig Emperor]

I rewatched Fires of Pompeii today, as you do on a wet Sunday when you should be Christmas shopping.

In that, the Sisterhood, and anyone else who has been taking in the volcanic air are gradually turned to stone.

Just saying…

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Was looking at the promo poster again and you know how everyone has been saying the face in the flames is peter Capaldi I was thinking it could just as easily bee an image of McGann. Yes I know it’s a bit wild and may be my tablet just making the image grainy when I try and expand it but it does look as much like McGann as Capaldi. On the other hand when Matt finally regenerates wouldn’t it be nice if as a further nod to the 50th year anniversary they cycle his features through all the known faces of the doctor before settling on Capadi’s. They did someting similar I think between either the TBaker/Davidson or the Davidson/CBaker except it was past companions that flashed by.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

Under the category of “Loose Ends We Would Like to See Tied”, there is the question of how Clara got the Doctor’s phone number. I’m not sure if this question will ever be answered at this point. I don’t need answers to everything, but this one bugs me, because it is such a great big black X in the middle of the script: “Who gave you this number?” “The woman in the shop.” Surely there was meant to be an answer, but I’m not sure how that reveal would fit into what we now know (or think we know) about “The Time of the Doctor”.

Thinking about this a little, I asked myself, who has the phone number of the TARDIS, anyway? Not the Doctor’s mobile, but the actual, physical TARDIS phone? Apparently Winston Churchill has/had it (time travel and tenses). And since “The Day of the Doctor”, we know that UNIT has it. So, could the “woman in the shop” have been Kate Stewart? There is a suggestion in “The Day of the Doctor” that Clara and Kate have met before, although Clara doesn’t remember it due to memory wipe.

I’m not sure how this would actually work, although it probably makes as much sense as it being Rose from an alternate universe or Rose from the past. Could one of the Claricles have somehow met Kate in the past and instructed her to share the number with Clara Oswald when they meet? I suppose that it is more likely to have been River, who presumably would have had the TARDIS phone number, although that brings up the question of why Clara didn’t recognize River when she met her in “The Name of the Doctor”?

Agh. This is why I don’t generally do bonkers theorizing, it make my head ache and still doesn’t make any sense!

[toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond]

maybe it was a normal tech support number and a normal woman in a normal shop.
maybe the TARDIS redirected Clara’s call because it was time for The Doctor to find Her and defeat the GI.
Churchhill got transfered to River in Stormcage in the 51st century

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@arbutus – Clara’s nannying job was in the same neck of the woods as the Sarah Jane Adventures.

I think ‘the woman in the shop’ was a little shout-out to Elisabeth Clara Sladen – that while her actress may have passed on, Sarah Jane herself is still alive and still helping the Doctor.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Somehow or other, there has to be a reference to the sonic  in the skeleton’s hand. @pedant said something about that. Damned if I can remember.

[Anonymous @]

Article in the Guardian about the BFI Southbank showing of the Christmas special:

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/dec/19/doctor-who-christmas-matt-smith-peter-capaldi?commentpage=1

For non UK members, that’s the British Film Institute.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

What they’ve screened the Xmas special and didn’t invite me !!!!!! We’ll the audience better not say anything… Oh and for the ladies there’s supposed to be smith nudity if I’m reading the article right I bet it will just be a bare chest knowing what a tease the grand Moff can be as he says it’s appropriate for teatime tv

[FiveFaces @fivefaces]

@arbutus I agree: the woman in the shop is one plot-point that I’d really like to see tied up. I have three pet theories here, in ascending order of preference: i) Sally Sparrow; ii) the time lady from the End of Time (who seems mysteriously able to project herself out of the Time Lock/Stasis); and iii) The Moment (as Rose/Bad Wolf). I do hope we get an answer to this in the Special.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

@fivefaces well if the guardian article about the BFI screening is correct it indicates a lot of “loose”ends will be resolved in the Xmas special and with the beginning of a new reign about to begin I suppose it is an appropriate time. In some respects I think TDOTD began that by putting to rest the doctors involvement in the time war and laying foundations for what is to come. It also seemed looking back on it indicated that what we think is set may not be, that being the doctor death at Trenzalore shouldn’t be taken as a given. If the doctor can change the fate of gallifrey surely he can change his own fate.

Ouch now I have a headache and I’m not at all sure that came out as I intended, but hey feel free to comment that’s what forums are for.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@devilishrobby

to be smith nudity if I’m reading the article right I bet it will just be a bare chest knowing what a tease the grand Moff can be as he says it’s appropriate for teatime tv

Ahhh. I still remember The Lodger and “Bollockgate” – all those internet discussions about whether you could see Mr. Smiths “man vegetables” in his shower scene. Some people were obsessed!

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

Oh well, time for some last minute speculation/hopes for the Christmas special. Final pieces of speculation for Matt Smith! Sob.

It’s been a fun period no doubt, and lots of stuff to ponder and think about. Back on the G, in the series 6 threads, we kind of rejoiced over the curtailment of the God Doctor a bit, and some hopes for a kind of rebirth.

I think SMs reign has been one of redefinition, to a certain extent. I think the Daleks were the first to feel it, and with the exception of a redesign that was probably a bit OTT, their other appearances in cameo and in Asylum make me think that he’s taken them out of the trap of “too powerful, yet always lose in a final, final, yes-we-really mean-final-this-time-battle”. The last two skirmishes have been score draws really. No final ever battle ad nauseum. I like it.

Day of the Doctor has really paved a route out of the “Last of the Time Lords” angst thing, in a novel way. Same result, but there is hope within him.

So what I’d really like for Christmas is for Matt to be the “last” Doctor. Yep, number 13. I said on the DotD thread that would take it past the Valeyard “end point” and then onto new pastures as he gets past the 13 lives “rule”. I know some people seem to anticipate him going on a quest to free Gallifrey and the Time Lords who, in their natural generosity (snigger), will hand him a new set, but for me that’s not the Doctor. Oh, he’ll complain about the end when it comes, and is in no hurry to jump the queue, but actually seek it an extension? I doubt it somehow. It would put him with the crazy people.

So it would be brilliant if he came to the end, suddenly regenerated and didn’t know why it happened. A new mystery to unravel, and one that may be in the past. He’s often gone up against seekers of immortality and been exposed to whatever they’re after. Maybe it rubbed off? Maybe he’ll never quite know if he can regenerate? Nothing to be taken for granted. Lots of jeopardy. Lots of uncertainty, which is why the Myth of the Doctor continues. All that, that is rebirth.

So yeah, I’d like that for Christmas.

Oh, and:

• Explosions,

• Jokes,
• Sad bits,

• A roller-coaster ride of epic proportions.

I’m taking the last four as odds-on certainties.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@phaseshift – of course there’ll be explosions. Everything’s better with explosions. 🙂

I dunno whether they’re going to put him as ‘no. 13’ somehow, but I’ll continue to go with my ‘meta-arc’ theory that Matt Smith is the last of the Classic Doctors. We’ve recapped the classic series and Day of The Doctor has recapped the moment just before the 2005 series opens; the destruction of Gallifrey. Time of The Doctor should therefore take us to ‘Rose’; not just a new Doctor but a whole new beginning. A new circuit of the clock-dial.

In fact, Day of the Doctor didn’t just recap the destruction, it rebooted it. Gallifrey isn’t destroyed; Gallifrey is now a fairy-tale kingdom frozen in time, waiting for the Doctor/’prince’ to fight his way through and reawaken it.

Which means the Doctor’s story is one of ‘Voyage and Return’. We’ve spent the first fifty years watching the ‘Classic’ Doctors run away from Gallifrey; now we’re watching our new set of Doctors run towards it. 🙂

That’s a huge conceptual shift, and it reflects the huge shift from the Before Gap series to the big(ish) budget After Gap Series.

I agree with PhaseShift that while the Doctor is going to ‘not go gently into that good night’, he’s not someone who wants immortality. There is, however, now one reason that he might well seek a new set of regenerations – the thought that he’s the only person who can find and release Gallifrey. That’s a much more mature reason; instead of wanting immortality for himself, he wants other people to live. They, however, can only live if he does…

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@bluesqueakpip

Gallifrey is now a fairy-tale kingdom frozen in time, waiting for the Doctor/’prince’ to fight his way through and reawaken it.

That is a lovely way of expressing it. And yes, I think that is precisely what season 8, 9, 10, etc, will be.

I also agree with @phaseshift that the Time Lords won’t grant The Doctor a new set of regenerations because of their generosity. Rather, (and here I think the theories of @phaseshift and @bluesqueakpip can be reconciled) they might well grant him a new set of regenerations because of their self-interest. They need The Doctor, as he is the only one who can re-awaken their fairy-tale kingdom.

I am reminded of that other fabulous show from 1963, Jason and the Argonauts, where the gods on Olympus grant Jason powers, so that he can achieve their ends. They are ultimately selfish and capricious, allowing some to live and some to die, but, as Zeus says at one point, they, as gods, will only live as long as there are those out there who believe in them, So they intervene occasionally in order to keep the beliefs of mortals alive. But the motive is self-interest.

Similarly, the Time Lords might well grant the Doctor (and I agree with @phaseshift …the 13th Doctor) more regenerations in order that he can live to ensure that they might live.

Hmm. Might well be time to stick Jason and the Argonauts into the DVD player on this cold Sunday afternoon. A star turn by Patrick Troughton as the sinner condemned by the gods to be harassed by harpies, and some really excellent duelling skeletons!

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

@blenkinsopthebrave,@phaseshift and @bluesqueakpip I have read your posts with great interest.I agree having David Bradley “reprise” his role as the Hartnell doctor would be an incredible nice touch, especially if they are going to revise or break the 12 regeneration rule it would be interesting if they could “involve” the first doctor in the resolution being alpha to omega so to speak. Although I have my doubts that this legend will turn out to be a previous incarnation of the doctor it is more likely to be some high profile actor that they are referring to ie like they used Derek Jacoby as an incarnation of the Master.

On the matter of the regeneration rule there is one possible solution that could work without breaking the rule if the sisterhood of Karn were somehow involved this thought was prompted when I re-watched TNOTD minisode and a comment about immortality that the sisterhood has and the fact that they have raised timelord science to its pinicle.

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