Spoilers (2)

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  • #46028
    Anonymous @

    @doctordoctorwho

    Well, you do have to live or holiday near where they happen to be acting? Whose fault is that now? 🙂

    I kid, of course    🙂

    I’m sure no-one meant to be mean and you are a lovely contributor -it’s that the last couple of days has had some difficult interactions with a couple of members and that could contribute to some shortness in people -generally members here are very nice indeed. Or at least try to be.

    I can see that knowing the cliff-hanger because you happen to have seen it would be very annoying indeed. Maybe they should have taken the cast to Slovakia where filming is extremely cheap these days. It used to be the Czech Republic but they wised up and now it’s jolly expensive doing trips there with a cast even for a few days 🙂

    Kindest, puro

     

    #46030
    DoctorDoctorWho @doctordoctorwho

    @purofilion

     

    Hey, thank you! You’re the first user today that’s made me feel welcome, and thanks for explaining why the other’s may not be so well today. 🙂

    Yeah, I believe the episode could have benefited from being filmed in Slovakia.

     

    #46033
    Anonymous @

    @doctordoctorwho well, in the pub (the Fox Inn, I think) I’ll buy you a round -or a late, if you like those   –though the typing has spelt ‘late’ I bet! What’s a “late”?    🙂

    LOL

    Yes, all has returned to normal, I think.

    Slovakia is a very pretty place indeed and unfortunately for itself it has very little specific economic strengths (unlike it’s sister, the Czech Land) which means it does rather badly in every area except tourism and film and TV. -to pub now!….

    #46037
    ichabod @ichabod

    @doctordoctorwho  Yes, we had a brief visit from some Underbridges last week (and just before, too), and I think since we take care to keep this a friendly place, we tend to let the snark out when trolls come calling — and it takes a bit to get back into our normal groove?  Anyway, I remember the shots you mention, now that you remind me, and I’m sure you’re right.  But they still have to solve the main problem, which, given that they’ve set it up as metaphorically about immigrants, can’t possibly be done by releasing a gas that will turn all the zygons inside out!

     

    #46280
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    The BBC has commissioned a new series based on Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials:

    http://variety.com/2015/tv/global/bbc-orders-philip-pullmans-his-dark-materials-1201632207/

    “His Dark Materials” is the first commission from Bad Wolf, a U.K./U.S. production company founded by former BBC executives Jane Tranter and Julie Gardner, and co-sited in South Wales and Los Angeles … The series will be executive produced by Pullman, Tranter and Gardner for Bad Wolf, Toby Emmerich and Carolyn Blackwood for New Line Cinema, and Deborah Forte for Scholastic.

    Tranter and Gardner had huge roles getting the new Doctor Who to the success it is today.   I am not knowledgeable enough about to business to know if the article is also stating who will be the showrunner.

    I have been thinking for some time that Doctor Who’s future must be about going into not just this universe but others across the multiverse, times and spaces.  It seems to me the BBC is willing to have gentle synergy between different productions, see Vikings in this season of Doctor Who.   So after Moffat finishes telling his grand story, perhaps with the fate of the Time Lords, I wonder if the next great story will be about the Doctor’s adventures across the multiverse.  This would more easily allow characters to show a range of talents, from being a hero one serial to a villain the next, or in between, as their roles change depending on which universe the Doctor is in.

    #46307
    janetteB @janetteb

    @jphamlore Read that this morning and was very excited about it. I loved the His Dark Materials books. The film was OK but Television can do a much better job of bringing out the complexity of a novel. Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell really would not have worked as a film either.

    Dr Who has had a few alternate universe stories, Flatline comes to mind. I really enjoy the multiverse idea, even if it is now essentially debunked by science. I would very definitely like to see a series where alternate universes are the key theme.

    The TV series, Fringe, utilised the concept of alternate universes well at least in the first few series. I would be more than happy if Dr Who “borrowed” some of the concepts from that which of course are not concepts that originated in or are unique to that series.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #46312
    Anonymous @

    @janetteb

    So you’ve liked Fringe? I was thinking that this series would be a good thing as a Christmas present for the whole family, if it’s marginal. We were watching Primeval which pretty awful actually!

    #46315
    janetteB @janetteb

    @purofilion Yes. I really enjoyed Fringe and it has a surprising number of Aussie actors in it, most notably Anna Torv and the wonderful John Noble, a South Australian known mostly for his role in LOTR as Denethor. It does have a lot of rather graphically gruesome stuff but it is mostly justified by the story. There were a few “avert eyes” moments but the characterisation and stories were more than worth it. Early in the days of the forum there were one or two of us who desperately hoped to see John Noble in Dr Who. I think he is firmly settled in the U.S now though.

    I am hoping to buy the DVD set of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell this Christmas. And just to keep from going off topic too badly,, I would also love Dr Who to touch upon the fairy lore which is a form of alternate universe. (Fairy lore as in pre Spenser and Shakespeare)

    (Wow just as I typed that there was a bright flash just above the screen then an almighty roll of thunder. Tropical weather here today.)

     

    #46318
    geoffers @geoffers

    blargh!! i just typed ‘doctor who’ into google, and THIS caught my &$*#ing eye, first thing…

    Doctor Who Season 9: Clara Oswald’s Exit Will ‘Shock’ & ‘Terrify’

    courtesy of “Screen Rant.” i didn’t dare click the link, for fear of further damage, but if anyone here fancies a look, just google for yourselves…

    #46464
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    I now think it is possible that what causes Clara’s death will be shown in The Zygon Inversion, because it has a co-writing credit from Moffat.  I do not believe that Moffat will allow another writer to write Clara’s death because of its importance.  This might be a turning point for the franchise similar to when Romana left the classic series, a real turning point in how companions are portrayed.

    Reading spoilers and speculation about upcoming episodes, it is not impossible for them to be after some death blow, perhaps not immediate, has been delivered to Clara.  I am intrigued in particular by the episode Face the Raven where there is a character known as Chronolock Guy.  What if the Doctor and others are not there because they are unexpectedly trapped by monsters, but the Doctor goes there on purpose to seek the assistance of this Chronolock Guy?

    #46489
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore @spud

    I’m not sure if Clara will be sent-off in this next two episodes? (I don’t even know what episode we’re on -the standalones make the series go slower I think: this method is tightly constructed and feels minimalist without destroying the quality of the script or the dense layering)

    In Ep 1-2, the hybrid was referenced by Missy but I don’t think Clara will meet a definitive end just yet -there’s still the nanotech in her brain from Ep 2 which may well, as @pedant suggests, have some permanent and unsettling affect on Clara’s brain. Who nose.

    As to casting @spud ,  I don’t think there’ve been any whispers on that front? Perhaps there should be an unveiling as rich and exciting as the one for the Doctor? Recent ‘newbies,’ however, might think that not doing that yields an elitist, patriarch- based society 😉

    Humph

     

     

    #46494
    toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond

    Knowing Moffat as we do  we have most likely already met the next companion…

     

    or not.

    #46606
    lisa @lisa

    In the upcoming episode ‘Heaven Sent” I was wondering if it could refer to something
    the Time lords sent into Clara thru the crack when they sent the new regenerations
    to the Doctor? She has been morphing into new Clara since that happened or ever since
    ‘Deep Breath”.
    Also, keep thinking there is a clue between “Death in Heaven’ and
    ‘Heaven Sent’. Maybe there is something about the Matrix (aka ‘heaven’) that
    the Doctor (who is supposed to be in this episode alone) has an idea to visit.
    Why? Well if he goes into the Matrix maybe there a way he thinks he might be able to
    access some connection with the Time Lords to get an explanation about Clara? Maybe
    there is some way to have a communications link thru it since it is their technology?
    So is Clara becoming the Time lords new hybrid weapon. That would mean the time Lords
    are making a choice to use the Davros strategy as he did in creating the hybrid know as the Daleks.
    Maybe its a weapon to hold the peace so they can come back? But I think that’s what might
    be happening to Clara, She is taking on all sorts of stuff from all kinds of alien species.
    Lots of little gifts. Dalek, Zygon even bits of the Doctor. A new kind of monster that may be
    able to look like anything like a Zygon can. A new 2.0 type version of the Valeyard? A new
    ‘adversary’ to the Doctor. That would really be an interesting shock – the word SM used.
    The anti-Clara?

    #46607
    lisa @lisa

    I saw in the trailer for this next episode that the Doctor mentions an ‘abomination’.
    I wonder if that can be a clue about an anti-Clara?

    #46609
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @lisa

    Just watched the trailer as well. I suspect the “abomination” is referring to something in that particular story alone. The trailer has the feel that it might be a sort of “puff-piece” episode, before what I suspect might be the really emotionally heavy Clara-centric episode to follow. Just a feeling.

    #46698
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Here’s my speculation for Clara’s final fate.  I believe it ties in everything Moffat has been writing about Clara from the very beginning.

    The only reason to bring something back from Gallifrey in my opinion is the innocent children, as emphasized by the Moment in Day of the Doctor where the Moment told the Doctor to count the number of children he was going to murder.

    So I am starting to wonder if Clara’s fate is to be a teacher of the Gallifreyan children who are planning to reenter this universe. I speculate the children must make a choice: Come to this universe to live one life as an ordinary human mortal or stay in Gallifrey forever, alive, but not having fully lived life.

    So we may have a fascinating symmetry: The Doctor is the bodhisattva who purposely stays behind in this universe to help others attain enlightenment, while Clara is the gatekeeper allowing some of the child angels to leave a form of heaven to be (re)born to experience the pain of this universe.

    We have now see Clara multiple times in some sort of virtual or dream reality where she is made to realize she is in some sort of unreal environment.

    So suppose the Time Lords try to take her mind by force. The usual pattern of companions leaving these days seems to be some apparent sad ending and then a later fix brokered by the Doctor to let them live happier lives. So for the first apparent end of Clara, I speculate she will be teaching a class that she thinks is composed of ordinary human children when she starts detecting little oddities that make her realize she is in some sort of fake reality. She starts trying to explore how to escape … only to get rebooted back to teaching her class.

    The fix I think will be the Doctor discovers her fate and that she cannot be brought back to existence as a normal human being, similar to Asylum of the Daleks. So the Doctor does the best he can: he breaks into Clara’s virtual reality and at least offers her the chance to die. But this time Clara, to the shock of the Time Lords, offers to freely give of herself to teach the Gallifreyan children, if she is allowed to teach them the lessons she learned while traveling with the Doctor.

    #46699
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    The Second Doctor as shown in The War Games carries this self-assembling box that can carry messages to the Time Lords. Similar message cubes appeared in the Neil Gaiman written episode The Doctor’s Wife.

    Now just suppose … that when a Time Lord dies a message cube forms that carries something of his or her essence back to the Time Lords on Gallifrey. And just suppose that to the Doctor’s shock and amazement, when Clara dies, some sort of message cube forms and flies away.

    That is why the Doctor is willing to risk all to try and follow Clara’s cube, because it is the best chance for him to both rescue Clara and find Gallifrey.

    And the betrayal occurs when the Doctor discover the Time Lords have been using him to return and intend to enslave Clara in a virtual dream reality to train themselves to go back the other direction and invade Earth.

    The solution the Doctor brokers is for only the Time Lord children, trained by now a willing Clara, are allowed to go back the other direction, to be reborn as mere mortal humans, perhaps taking the bodies of humans who have just died and have a miraculous revival.

    #46707
    Frobisher @frobisher

    I can’t get the episode Listen out of my head. I’m sure the Orson Pink loose end therein is going to be addressed at some point, and it makes most sense to tackle it with Clara still around. We have seen the following:

    * Three Mire helmets were removed by the Doctor et al in The Girl Who Died.

    * Two Mire “eternal” first aid packs, sourced from the Mire helmets, were given by the Doctor to Ashildr/Me – one was used on Ashildr/Me to bring her back to life, and the other was used on Sam Swift.

    * Although she is now functionally immortal, Ashildr/Me’s standard issue human pudding brain proved incapable of storing all the information encountered in several hundred years of life. She even seemed to forget basic, core information such as her original name and her childhood in the Viking village.

    * In Listen, the Doctor and Clara encounter a human adventurer many, many years in the future. He is called Orson Pink, bears an uncanny physical resemblance to Clara’s boyfriend, Danny Pink, and possesses a toy soldier believed to belong to Danny Pink as a child. However, he seemed to know nothing of Clara, or Danny.

    * Later, Clara was (and probably still is) distraught at the death of Danny Pink in a car crash. The full details of the crash are unknown.

    * Clara has previously exhibited very strong feelings of wanting to go back and save Danny from his death.

    * Clara has some degree of access to the TARDIS, and has been shown to be able to pilot it to some extent (e.g. in Listen and The Zygon Inversion).

    Conjecture: In the series ending two-parter, Clara somehow travels back in time trying to save Danny. Missy and/or Me may have a hand in helping her do this, against the Doctor’s wishes, of course. It is possible that, in going back in time, she actually causes the incident that killed Danny. Either way, she now has the third Mire first aid kit. She gives it to Danny, healing him. He is now functionally immortal, and goes on to become Orson Pink, forgetting Clara and his life as Danny. Clara is effectively left behind as a “mayfly”. Run, you clever boy, and remember…

    This sequence of events would prevent Dark Water and Death in Heaven from playing out as they did, among other things. What would the Doctor be forced to do to prevent such damage to the established time line? Could Cyber-Danny’s sacrifice be replaced by a sacrifice made by Clara? After all her sacrifices to save the Doctors, perhaps she will bow out sacrificing herself to save Danny?

    Just some bonkers theorising. What do you think?

     

    #46710
    Anonymous @

    @frobisher

    Well, I for one am duly impressed! What an ‘orson’ idea~

    Clara is the one causing the crash -it’s similar to Father’s Day in that Rose’s Dad was killed in a random accident but dissimilar in that, in this case, somehow going back in time (maybe even stealing the tardis?) she tries to drive toward Danny to tell him not to cross the road, only her other phone call causes him to step over the sidewalk anyway?

    There are proven to be multiple Claras (so her going back in time duplicates the ‘other’ Clara who is on the phone to Danny during Dark Water).

    After 100 or more years he forgets her? Would he not need 500+ years to forget Clara considering Ashildr’s memory broke down after several hundred years for which she resorted to detailed diarising including the creation of a new and original name?

    And yes, these events are closed or simply important events not to be re-written. Here, Kate was saved by the Brig etc….The first Osgood didn’t die ….there was no break down of the Zygon ceasefire after all and Bonnie Clara didn’t exist.

    A complete re-writing of the time line as we know it!

    Still: very, very good 🙂

    Kindest, Puro

    #46711
    Frobisher @frobisher

    @purofilion

    Ah, I must confess I had forgotten when Orson claimed to originate from in relation to Clara’s era. I thought he was from further forward in history.

    I think the events of Dark Water & Death In Heaven could stand to some extent – Missy could still Cyber-ise the dead, etc, kill an Osgood, Cyber-Brig still gets Kate out of hot water, etc. The sub-plot with Danny Pink in the after life would be lost, but would that effect the majority of events in “the real world”? I honestly can’t remember how everything related and was inter-linked. Of course, the Cyber-Danny would not exist, and so could not rebel against the programming and order the self-destruct. Cyber-Brig would be able to do that in the revised time line, perhaps?

    Of course, the child Danny Pink killed would not then be saved from, well, wherever he and Danny were at the end of the story (I’m still a little weirded out by that whole “life-after-death” thing)… unless Clara could save him somehow. Could Clara engineer a swap, her life for the boy’s, so the boy is alive once more, Danny/Orson lives forever, and she spends the rest of eternity stuck in a false reality, or after-life?

    Further bonkers theory: The “confession dial” is actually the equivalent of Gallifreyan external hard drive, and contains Missy’s after-life and all the souls within it, including Clara. The reason the Doctor sent it to Missy was that as she is the only other Gallifreyan he knows to live, only she could understand the importance of the dial, and know how to possibly access the data/souls therein. Perhaps the Doctor hoped against hope that Missy would act on his final wishes, and somehow save/protect those souls rather than use/abuse them for some nefarious scheme?

    #46715
    nerys @nerys

    Wow, @frobisher I like your ideas about Orson and what Clara might do to save Danny. Brilliant bonkerizing! Though, as @purofilion has pointed out, there are a few snags in the resulting timeline. Isn’t that always the case?

    #46718

    Question for those who know these things: would you expect shooting for the Xmas special to have wrapped by now?

    #46720

    Ah, right – look s like it started shooting first week of Sept. So principal photography should be well done by now?

    #46722
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @pedant — I’d expect the whole thing to be shot by now. Probably deep in post at this stage I would have thought. As I said on the other place, I suspect the reason they’re keeping very quiet about it is that its actual premise contains spoilers for the end of the current series

    #46723

    @jimthefish

    Yeah. That’s what I thought. What about B Unit? (as you will gather, this is leading somewhere but want to be as sure of my ground as poss).

    #46736
    Cybercat @cybercat

    Stumbled on this about Edgar Allen Poe’s poem ‘The Raven’

    Our narrator’s sorrow for his lost, perfect maiden Lenore is the driving force behind his conversation with the Raven. In turn, the Raven, even through his limited vocabulary, forces the narrator to face the reality that Lenore will return ‘nevermore,’ a fact that the narrator does not want to acknowledge. As a result, by the poem’s conclusion the Raven has the eyes ‘of a demon’s’ and its shadow hangs over the narrator’s soul. For the poem’s speaker, the Raven has moved beyond mournful, never-ending remembrance to an embodiment of evil.

    With Face The Raven coming up this seems somewhat apt..

    Poe himself meant the Raven to symbolize ‘mournful, never-ending remembrance.’

     

    #46737

    Right. So.

    Kettering, Northants. Last Sunday.

    Reported to a poster here who has the sense of urgency of a teenage guitarist and, more to the point, the photos (taps watch):

    “Filming Dr Who with Coleman, the Tardis and lots of Downton looking people”

    Further interrogation finds witnesses aren’t fans, but also not bullshitters, which raise the possibility it could have been Coleman’s body double (I assume she has one).

    Pics show Tardis, bloke in RAF-style great coat, others in period dress, and that vintage Citroen that is in every sodding thing (the owner must be minted by now). Very WWII feel (stand-in for Bletchley?)

    Possibilities:

    – Second unit for Xmas, but this is v late in the day (per @jimthefish above);

    – A reshoot for Xmas

    – Something for CiN, although again seems a bit late

    – or…..?????

    Maybe an insert scene for S10 done while Coleman is available?

     

    OMG! RAF-style greatcoat…..

    #46739
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @pedant

    OMG! RAF-style greatcoat…..

    ??

    The Blenkinsop brain is obviously in a holding pattern. Connect the dots for me.

    #46740

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Maybe it was a captain 😉 Actually, being the RAF it would be Group Captain Jack….

    (This is total speculation, obv – no evidence but a couple of phone pix which are yet to turn up *taps watch again*)

    #46745
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @pedant — sorry for the delay in replying. That pesky RL work thing getting in the way again. Could well be B-unit stuff or pick-ups for the Xmas special. I’d be surprised if it was for the actual series. I actually think it could well be CiN — when is it this year anyway?

    Not sure how I’d feel about seeing a certain Captain back in the series anyway. I felt he’d outlived his usefulness as a character for some time before his last appearance. But if it pans out, it’s definitely interesting news.

    #46747
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish

    RLwork?

    Ralph Lauren?

    Rugby League?

    Ahh, I see…Revenu Quebec

    http://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/sepf/production-transmission/

    <Blenkinsop staggers off towards cellar for a refill…>

    #46748
    nerys @nerys

    @pedant

    Actually, being the RAF it would be Group Captain Jack….

    My thoughts exactly, as soon as I read “RAF-style great coat.”

    <Nerys staggers toward fridge as Donna bellows on phone.>

    #46749
    Anonymous @

    @pedant and what is CiN?

    That’s where I’m at!

    #46750
    Anonymous @

    bugger

    It’s Children In Need innit?

    As you were

    #46757

    @purofilion

    Yep Children in Need, but it is this Friday so filming on Sunday before is leaving it terribly tight.

    #46759

    @jimthefish @purofilion

    Actually, DW usually does Comic Relief in March. Is that next year? That would make far more sensible timing. Even a 10 min slot needs a lot of post-production.

    #46761
    Anonymous @

    I think we get the CiN stuff but it’s on some combo DVD -not even sure if there was one last year with the full series 8 (with the Tardis noise, which now is a little annoying -every time I nudge it, off it goes, wheezing into the night).

    No, I don’t sleep with it  -but it’s in a bookshelf where my various must -grab books are kept.

    #46762
    Anonymous @

    Oh hang on, March?  o-right, then it wouldn’t be in any Chrimble DVDs anyway.

    The following year, perhaps.

    #46763

    @purofilion

    Children in Need = this week, Fri 13 Nov

    Comic Relief = March (but I think there was one this year and it is every two years, iirc)

    It being a school night the purveyor of the pix is presumably in bed. I will chastise him tomoz and get ’em put up.

    Am inclined to agree with @jimthefish re the idea of Cap’n Jack return – unless it was something v cool about immortality (and he was a Moff creation). BUT that’s a lot of spec about pix I can’t show you yet.

    #46764
    lisa @lisa

    http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Partying_of_the_Ways_(comic_story)

    This is a comic that came out last spring. I wondered if this can be
    factored into the Claradox? Maybe we are dealing with another duplicate
    Clara Ganger in these episodes? The Doctor makes an interesting comment.
    After the fakes leave the Doctor tells Clara that he’s making the most of
    his mistake. This hit a nerve when I read it. Did the Doctor re-create
    his Clara and is that why he called himself ‘Dr Funkinstein’?

    #46769

    @lisa

    My bet, if not a bona fide Clara/icle, would be a stalky-forehead type Dalek. It would have a certain circularity with how we first met her.

    #46771
    lisa @lisa

    How about if Clara is dead then it happened in ‘Last Christmas’? The Doctor didn’t
    save her in time from the face hugger. He said something about getting
    a second chance in the last scene. So he gave himself and Clara a second chance
    to spend more time together but she is still lying in bed dying of old age?
    Still think he created a duplicate of her or shall I say a hybrid? Which is why
    he called himself Dr. Funkenstein. That would be a bookend which SM might go with.
    But I could change my mind again cause I’ve been thinking something different every
    week 🙂 Love the puzzles!!
    Could be why nothing much has a lasting effect on her and she is also losing touch.
    Maybe her aging body cant keep a proper connection with her duplicate anymore.

    #46772
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    These hints of what is happening the final two episodes seem very disconnected.  It is as if they were in a dream …

    Because maybe that’s where they are occurring, some merger of dream and reality.  Hasn’t that been a theme such as Last Christmas?

    Let us go back to The Time of the Doctor.  There is a crack through which the Time Lords are sending their message which turns out to be asking for the Doctor to prove it is safe for them to emerge by stating his real name.  Clara appeals to the Time Lords to help the dying Doctor who is going out to face the Daleks one last time.  The Time Lords probably know if they return the Time War starts again, yet the crack might be their only chance to escape where they have been imprisoned since The Day of the Doctor.  Yet we see the crack close, energy shoots out to give the Doctor his regenerations, and then he is able to Highlander on the Daleks destroying them.

    If one looks at this with the eyes of someone who has never seen Doctor Who before, isn’t it obvious where Gallifrey is now:  The Time Lords somehow transferred themselves to the Doctor.  Perhaps or perhaps not the Time Lords then transferred themselves to somewhere on the Tardis.  The Doctor or the Tardis are the only places Gallifrey can be where the Doctor can always find it.

    Capaldi is apparently going to be the only actor in Heaven Sent.  Yet there will be a monster, the Veil.  What other face can the monster eventually have but Capaldi’s?  Where else can the action be but something inside the Doctor’s head or inside the Tardis?  How else can it be that after he gets through his perils he can somehow find Gallifrey?

    Missy wasn’t lying when she said Gallifrey was at its original coordinates, at least when the Doctor visited those coordinates.

    #46774
    lisa @lisa

    Also, could be why he saved Ashildr? She died from having something attached
    to her head like Clara did and he couldn’t bear seeing so much a reminder of
    something so similar to Clara. That would make sense why Clara doesn’t get the immortality
    chip, its too late for her. Then he says he left Ashildr the second chip cause she
    might find someone she cant bare to be without. That fits too because the Doctor was
    obviously thinking of Himself with Clara.
    Any thoughts?

    #46776
    janetteB @janetteb

    @lisa lots of thoughts too many, they are all swirling around in my head in a crazy cocktail. I do think that Doctor knows what is to become of Clara. I do think though the reason he doesn’t give Clara the immortality chip is because it is not a wise thing to give to a mortal. He questions the wisdom of giving one to Ashildr but he does so because it is the only way to revive her and her death was his fault. I don’t think immortality chips are something that the Doctor would give away lightly, even to someone whom he cares deeply about. Having given Ashildr the chip he has to give her another to make her longevity bearable. He knows the pain of out living everyone else and does not wish that upon anyone else.

    @jphamlore I rather like that theory, that Gallifrey is in the Tardis. I have always wondered if it is in  the obvious place though, the British Museum. Gallifrey is in the painting, hence the Doctor being the curator.

    Like @pedant and @jimthefish I am not so keen on the possibility of the return of Captain Jack, a character who only worked in small doses and was somewhat tarnished by Torchwood. However I am also confident that with Moffat at the helm it will work. More interesting is the suggestion that Clara was there. Makes me wonder if it is a final scene about her that will pop up in the next series. It would not surprise me as I sense that J.C.  has a good rapport with Moffat and Capaldi.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #46778
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @janetteb: Also for many of the previous companions there is a first apparent end that seems very sad, and later the Doctor somewhat patches it up.  Martha Jones was an exception because her destiny was always to go off and be an independent career woman.

    #46782
    Kharis @kharis

    I think the Veil will be a multiform who becomes his mirror.  Maybe the Veil from the Sarah Jane Smith Adventures?  Like in the Neverending Story the hardest challenge to pass through was the mirror, facing his true self.  Gallifrey I think is exactly where Missy said it was, he just didn’t see it.  Of course I’m loving the theory it’s on the Tardis; brilliant bonkers theory!

    #46788
    Carrieanne @carrieanne

    My theory at the moment is that Gallifrey will show up in the hidden pocket they end up during Face The Raven, or it may be the cliffhanger for that episode at least.  As for Clara’s ending, it really could go any of the ways we have been theorizing, or it may be something Moffat pulls out of his hat lol.

    #46794
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Big alleged spoilers for the final three episodes of Season 9:

    http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/doctor-who-series-9-finale-angry-doctor.html

    I say alleged because I simply do not know anything about this site.

    #46796
    jphamlore @jphamlore
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