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  • #14806
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @Shazzbot Unfortunately Bluesqueakpip may well see some of this as you @ mentioned her so she will have been emailed the first sentence or so of your comments. Slight wrap over the knuckles for you I’m afraid. Now, don’t do it again 😀

    And yes, that’s another thing I should look into – having the spoilers thread send no emails (although that would affect people who do want to take part – what should I do?)

    #14808
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    I usually avoid the spoiler page but in the last month or so, when there has been a dearth of anything happening, I’ve been drawn in.

    Hmmm, @htpbdet‘s insider gossip.  You know, the first I knew that Harry Melling was Troughton’s relative was when I was reading a quick puff piece possibly on the Guardian a couple of weeks ago.

    He’d fit into the profile a bit.  Not too famous but has been in Harry Potter.  However, whilst I thought he was a good child actor (better than some of the others certainly) I’ve never seen anything that he has done as an adult.  He’s also a bit young.  Not sure about Sam either.

    Me, I’d rather have Peter Capaldi.

    #14813
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @scaryb

    OK, as I was saying,

    When they do the live show on Sunday, I wonder if they build up the audience into a frenzy, pull apart the curtain, and…out comes someone no-one knows. Terrible pause as people ask: “umm, who is it?”

    Sooo…I wonder if this means it might be someone really, really well known? (at which point crowd goes wild)

     

    #14814
    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave – you have an excellent point.  The whole idea of a live ‘reveal’ does tend to favour a well-known person, and someone who will, as you say, make the crowd go wild.

    Although I have to say, the car-crash value of a hugely awkward pause on live TV does appeal to my inner sadist.  🙂

    #14817
    TardisBlue @tardisblue

    Spoilers and bonkers, who could ask for anything more?

    First, a female doctor/companion bonkers theory: Clara becomes a Time Lord (Time Lady?) after 1) going throughout the Doctor’s time stream to save him, since 2) she’d previously traveled with him in the Tardis and had absorbed just enough Tardis energy to fuel her transformation from human/Claricile to Time Lord/Lady.  The second point is important because we don’t really want the Great Intelligence (or any other nefarious entity) elevated to Time Lord status by just by jumping into timestreams.  We’d only want this to happen to people who’ve made a good enough impression on the Doctor to become a Companion, and a good enough impression on the Tardis that she doesn’t skedaddle all the way to the end of the universe trying to shake them off (Captain Jack in Utopia..

    Clara as Time Lord/Lady occurred to me tonight following a conversation with a friend.

    He had heard that the next series would include both a male and female doctor.  I’m not sure how much stock I put in having two Time Lords/Ladies as co-stars.  I’m not adverse to it, I’ve just been conditioned to having one main character in this show.  (Though I’d welcome return visits from River Song with open arms.)

    But *my* friend has a friend (in LA) who has a friend (in San Francisco) who has friends in the BBC.(in the UK, obviously;) ).  (Four degrees of Steven Moffatt?)  And my friend’s LA friend had been spot on about the incident leading to the BBC’s premature announcement that Christopher Eccleston was leaving after one series as the Doctor.***

    Over the weekend, the LA friend told me:

    1.  The next series (8 AG) will be set in Gallifrey and will explore the Doctor’s childhood and (presumably) time before he set sail as a mad man in a box.

    2.  The show has been authorized for another year, but its future on television after that is not guaranteed.

    This possible Gallifreyian series seems plausible to me.  First, I’m guessing it will be cheaper to produce.  Several of you have mentioned BBC belt-tightening and license fee financial concerns  Just like the time when the Third Doctor was exiled to earth, Gallifrey-based stories without time travel to other worlds or big battles or bigger disasters will be possible on smaller budgets.

    Also, it will allow Moffatt and the writers many more options to escape from the constraints of the present post-Time War universe.  They need not be bound by”Last of the Time Lords:” lonely, emotionally scarred, outliving his friends and companions, nearing the end of his regenerations (if the Fourth Doctor’s limit of 13 is to be believed).   I don’t think they’ll discard canon, but a change of scene plus additional Gallifreyan (sp?) characters opens up a lot of possibilities which have not been explored in AG-Who.  And I bet Moffatt et al are looking forward to this new-to-them territory.

    According to some “sources,” the next series will take on a decidedly more adult bent.  If purported leaked copies of the first script for the next doctor are to be believed, the next doctor says the “F word” when talking to Rasillon.  That word would get bleeped out here in the states, even if the show aired later in the evening after little ones are abed,  http://geek-news.mtv.com/2013/08/01/leaked-doctor-who-script-pages-confirm-peter-capaldi-as-the-new-doctor/  If there is any grain of truth in this spoiler, the cynic in me sees this apparent move (from G-rated to PG13-rated, as it were, although the MPAA ratings system is not applied to TV) as positioning Who for an upcoming movie franchise, companion-snogging, swear words and all.  I haven’t seen “The Thick of It,” but I’d be sorely disappointed if the vocabulary in the Who scripts became less gentile.

    I’m not in “the biz,” so I can’t even guess how much money would be saved if there were fewer CGI effects, less (or no) location shoots, etc.

    But … it’s easy for me to hope that

    cutting production costs with a new-nu Who aimed for adults might free up enough money for a children-friendly spin-off.  Paternostra Gang, anybody?  Just as long as BBCAmerica picks it up and broadcasts it here in the states.  (We didn’t get the Sarah Jane Adventures — so sad for those of us who were introduced to the Doctor when his Sarah traveled with him.)

    TardisBlue

    *** Re: Eccleston’s departure.  The timing of the BBC’s announcement and immediate “gee we’re sorry, Chris, that we jumped the gun without clearing it with you — or at least giving you  heads up” had always puzzled me.   The “LA friend” told me that Chris had walked off the set just before the BBC prematurely announced that he’d be leaving.   Chris never aired his grievances or discussed the incident with the media or the Whoniverse.  I’d been clueless about the atmosphere and pressure everyone was under during filming.  The information LA friend shared with me was later confirmed — when 1) someone recorded Chris’ informal comments in a Q and A with drama students, 2)passed the recording on to a Whoish blog, and 3) the blog commentators provided details putting Chris’ actions in context (claiming that his walk-out was motivated by his desire to stand up for crew members who’d been required to put in a heck of a lot of overtime) http://badwilf.co.uk/?p=820g o

    So, does that mean that LA friend’s sources have the inside track on the most reliable source of spoilers, erm, information?  I don’t know.  I just hope they don’t pull a “Miracle Day”/”Eighth Doctor” and weaken the show by attempting to make it more palatable for their view of what an American/international audience wants.

     

     

     

    #14818
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    I was finishing dinner (the colonies, remember) thinking about my previous idea that a live show revealing the next Doctor might result in a very, very, well known actor being revealed, and then I read @tardisblue‘s amazing post, and it started me thinking.

    If (if, mind) I am right and the dynamics of a live broadcast imply a very well known actor being revealed as the next Doctor, and then running with @tardisblue‘s friend-of-a-friend, of-a-friend, etc, story that season 8 is about the young Doctor before he left Galifrey (and keeping in mind Moffat, etc, saying that season 8 would send the show off in a different direction) then…who might a VERY well known actor–who only has to commit for one season–be?

    OK, I know this will sound crazy, but (given that an actor with the Hollywood profile–and huge number of projects–of Benedict Cumberbatch still commits to Sherlock) what about…Daniel Radcliffe?

    Of course, to put all the above ramblings into perspective, perhaps I will now go back and finish off the bottle of wine.

     

    #14823
    Anonymous @

    @tardisblue — very, very interesting post… but I’m highly sceptical to say the least. Who’s position as a children’s or family show is far too important for it to risk damaging it — for financial reasons if nothing else. It’s the likes of Linda Lee who are the lifeblood of the show not the older geeks like ourselves. They’re the ones who buy the merchandise in droves. I don’t think there’s any way that they’re going to risk alienating them just for sake of making the show a little more adult. That way Torchwood lies and look how that turned out.

    The Gallifrey idea is also interesting and I can see the logic of having stories anchored somewhere as they did in the Pertwee era but I think that the’d find Gallifrey too limiting, unless it was shown as extended flashbacks, I suppose. I think the multiple Doctor angle (as already mooted by @blenkinsopthebrave) could well happen though. But again putting the show on a trajectory where you remove one of its most potent symbols — the TARDIS — would, I suspect, give BBC Worldwide kittens….

    But the primary reason for my scepticism is that until now Moffatt seems to have been assiduously stripping away the burden of continuity from the show, reinstating the mystery of the Doctor and reducing it again to simply being the ‘madman in the box’, unknown by all his previous enemies. It doesn’t make sense to go to these lengths and then plan a whole season where you wallow in that continuity. And I don’t think he’s stripped away all that just so he can create his own.

    These rumours could all well be true and I don’t doubt that Moffatt is about to send the programme on a very different trajectory. But this smacks a little of fan wish fulfilment and it seems to run just that bit contrary to the trajectory that Moffatt has mapped out for the show to date.

    Still, you never know…

    #14824
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @blenkinsopthebrave.  @tardisblue

    Interesting stuff.

    While a live event does tend to suggest the new Doctor might be someone everyone knows, equally it could suggest someone no one knows and they feel the (marketing) need to set them off with a bang.

    The kind of people who will be permitted into the live audience will be those who are so excited by the change that Bluesqueakpip’s posited tin dog would raise deafening cheers. I expect.

    As to Radcliffe, well, it’s possible but he is just far too young. And he is doing another series of that show with John Hamm on Sky. I wonder, too, whether he would think it was the right move career wise?

    The one thing, @tardisblue, which gives me pause about your source and Capaldi is the leaked “script” and the F word. That word would never appear in Doctor Who when made for television in the UK because of the watershed here. It could not be broadcast til after 9.

    And while possible, I truly cannot see SM setting the show on Gallifrey for a season unless it essentially becomes “The Young Doctor Who” and I can’t really see that happening, except as a programme in the CBBC strand, like the Sarah-Jane Adventures.

    But, alas, one aspect of your source’s report does ring in accord with what my insiders indicate: Danny Cohen has said that unless Who gets better figures next year than it has over the last three, Season 8 will be the end.

    Which, if true, does get back to the idea of Helen Mirren or someone truly “stellar” for a single year…

    I still hope that the Nicola Walker rumours are right and if not then Andrew Scott or Daniel Rigby or Toby Stephens or Paul Ritter.

    #14827
    Anonymous @

    @tardisblue – your first link shows a script page which is frankly a bit unbelievable –

    DOCTOR WHO

    ‘IN THE TARDIS OF IT’

    by STEVEN MOFFAT

    Readthrough Draft

    01/08/2013

    Nice try, but you appear to have been hoodwinked by an elaborate ruse.

    #14828
    Anonymous @

    @craig

    Slight wrap over the knuckles for you I’m afraid.

    Is that cling-film?  😀

    #14830
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @htpbdet “But, alas, one aspect of your source’s report does ring in accord with what my insiders indicate: Danny Cohen has said that unless Who gets better figures next year than it has over the last three, Season 8 will be the end.”

    I would like to see those figures. How exactly is DW doing?

    #14834
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @timeloop

    I am no expert on them but don’t think they are terribly bad – just down on the Tennant averages. So I am told.

    But there are all sorts of factors – like scheduling and weather – which can affect that.

    I don’t understand why they don’t play Doctor Who over the winter period.

    #14835

    Don’t believe a word of the F word thing. Too ludicrous to be true. And the Gallifrey thing smacks of pure fanwankery.

    Also not convinced by the “this is the end” talk. Who is a very valuable property.

    But could easily see a shift to a “Silent Witness” type format of short seasons of 4 hour (two part) stories. Formats sometimes befit from being shaken up.

    #14838
    Anonymous @

    @pedant — ‘fanwankery’ was my thought too. I was just trying to be diplomatic 😉

    Also dubious about this ‘the end’ chat too. I’m thinking we will be getting ‘a rest’ soon though. And maybe it’s time actually. Definitely think a format change is probably on the cards too. I suspect a series will be cut down to between 6 and 8 episodes if nothing else and I’m good with that also. It’ll cut down on filler, Doctor-lite episodes and maybe stop the cast and crew feeling quite so frazzled…

    In terms of ratings, the last couple of series haven’t done all that badly in terms of live ratings compared to the Tennant era but they are down. However, I believe they seriously outperform them in terms of adjusted viewing and iPlayer viewings, so I don’t think that any kind of a threat based on ratings is that likely. The key threat is that Who is a seriously expensive show and that the Beeb is increasingly strapped for cash (despite the serious wonga that the show brings in via merchandising)…

    #14841
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @htpbdet Is it very hard to judge something you cannot see. Where did you see them? Does the BBC need to reveal them or something? I’d like to form an opinion.

    #14842
    TardisBlue @tardisblue

    @Shazzbot,

    Nice try, but you appear to have been hoodwinked by an elaborate ruse.

    Thank God !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad your eagle eye noticd a detail or two which my sleep-blurred eyes missed.  It’s 5 am here, ad I should hav goe to bed hours ago.

    @HTPBDET, @jimthefish, and others, I hope you all caught my skepticism (e.g., referring to (quote) “sources” (unquote), not sources; frequent use of the preposition “if,” etc.

    And I’m frankly relieved by your firm conclusion that an adult-oriented Who complete with loud bleeps (our FCC’s requiremet for dirty words) ad the shiftig of Who to a late eveig slot i the UK wouldn’t fly.

    @jimthefish, very interesting to hear how heavily The Doctor is marketed to childre in the UK.  Of course, I should have realized.  D’uh!  Fifty years, and an integral part of the culture.  I read all of your post, ad feel you have soud perspective ad isight.  FWIW, the LA fried did sy that they’d be goig back to Gallifrey to revisit the Dotor’s earlier years. And I’d sorely miss the Tardis if they were to “ground” the Doctor o Gallifrey.  (After all, I chose TardisBlue as my ame o this forum!)

    I wish I were able to respod more i depth, but I’m having major difficulties with my laptop’s keybord, ad it’s a real pai i the you know where to proof ad correct aythig I write.  I’ve given up tryig to correct the typos toight.  I’m crigig, this last part looks absolutely horrible, but I eed to get to sleep.  Maybe — if my experimet with tryig a exteral keyboard works, I’ll e able to respod more fully to your post — ad to commet o The Mutats, which I’ve bee followig d ejoying.

    @Shazzbot, your fried, of course, says “hi.”  Two degrees of separatio.  Cue earworm: “It’s a Small World After All.”

    Cross your figers that I ca get this key situatio resolved.  The uiverse is tellig me tht I eed a ew computer/laptop/otebook/woderful ew device of some sort or aother. I’m hopig that the uiverse will help my bak accout to come up with the moey for oe.

    TardisBlue

    #14843
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #14844

    That seems pretty consistent with past figures (save late Tennant), but with the mix of overnight/catch up changing radically (for obvious reasons)

    #14849
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @tardisblue

    Of course, your friend might be on the money about revisiting the Doctor’s youth on Gallifrey – but in the Anniversary Special…

    #14877
    Timeloop @timeloop

    Thanks @wolfweed ! So eight to six million viewers are considered bad @htpbdet ?

    To be honest I thought you were talking about revenue and not viewers.

     

    #14900
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    Re: the live show and the ta dah moment to reveal – a nobody.

    You know it might be possible it will be a nobody, if @htpbdet‘s  earlier rumour is correct and it is a relative of a previous incarnation.  It would fit in with the idea that the show is going to take us on a whistle stop tour of all the Doctors – and hence explain who said nobody is.

    I’ve still got my heart set on Capaldi, and now that the Thick of It has ended he might have a bit of spare time on his hands.  It is also interesting that according to the papers that he would be the same age as Hartnell when he was cast.

    Zoe Ball was filling in for Simon Mayo today on the Kermode film review show on Radio 5.  She was asked right at the beginning of the programme about the Doctor Who show but said she hadn’t a clue what would be happening.

     

    #14922
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @timeloop

    I dont have any issue with the figures; as I said above I did not think they were bad.

    The BBC is not an easy organisation to understand – but there is a hard core of creatives who think new stuff is way more important than new old stuff – I.e. completely new series rather than extension of old successful series.

    Well, unless that old series is New Tricks or anything basically apart from Doctor Who.

    It is like some creatives are horrified that it succeeds.

    #14923
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @chickenkelly

    Or it might be John Hurt….

    #14926
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #14930
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @wolfweed

    Thanks so much for that link. I am especially looking forward to “An Adventure in Space and Time”, and in some ways it has been a bit lost in all the discussion of the 50th and season 8.

    I was particularly taken by Mark Gatiss talking about his response to seeing the interior of the Tardis. I am fully expecting to blub when I see the white interior and the original console. Luckily, Mrs Blenkinsop will be on hand with tissues.

    #14932
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @htpbdet This could be a proper SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER…

    A month or so ago I read a rumour, from a source that has so far been reasonably correct about things, that Hurt had signed on for at least 4 episodes. I dismissed it, but the more I think about it, why not? Then they could have another regeneration mid-season.

    However, if everyone tunes in on Sunday and they say “The next Doctor is… (drum roll)… John Hurt” everyone will be underwhelmed. Like, duh! So who knows?

    #14935
    HTPBDET @htpbdet

    @craig

    Yes, quite.

    Who knows?

    Moffat lies – we know that.

    He wanted a surprise regeneration – we know that. Is there a way for him to have his cake and eat it too? Because if there is, I feel sure he will take it.

    🙂

    #14937

    @htpbdet

    He wanted a surprise regeneration – we know that. Is there a way for him to have his cake and eat it too? Because if there is, I feel sure he will take it.

    This. Most definitely, this.

    #15063
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    There’s a tiny possible misdirection in the latest BBC story on the website. Rankin the photographer’s tweet.

    #15069
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    And I’m back…

    As @chickenelly pointed out, sort of, Rankin (the “photographer” and bit of a twat – how he gets any work mystifies me, I can do better with a compact) has tweeted

    Just photographed the next Dr Who for tonight’s announcement. Let me know what you think of the photo? He’s going to be an ace Dr.

    Misdirection, or Rankin just being a twat again?

    #15071
    Whisht @whisht

    ah @craig – Rankin is involved in a Capaldi shoot at the mo – so has this become spoilery?
    or is it twattery misdirectionary from an admittedly twatteryy photographeryyyyy?

    or sumfin?

    to be honest though, he would be taking the next Doc’s photo regardless who it is, as he’s Rankin and kinda famous for famous portraits.

    #15072
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    My original post was supposed to contain the word hint in it. Alas predictive text combined with a tiny keyboard on my phone leaves a lot to be desired. Don’t know if Rankin is teasing or not.

    #15075
    StingRayBoy @stingrayboy

    Confirmation it’s a bloke? Or double bluff?

    #15076
    Anonymous @

    Hello @stingrayboy – thank you for posting that in the Spoilers thread.  Some people have been discussing this on the regular Forum topics but it really belongs here, until tonight’s programme has aired.

    I think the general consensus is that Rankin is a twat of the highest (lowest?) calibre, so he could have let that ‘he’ out deliberately.  Or, as you and some others have suggested, it could be part of the whole ‘Moffat lies’ syndrome … we’ll know in 3 hours or so!

    #15077
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    http://news.drwho-online.co.uk/New-Doctor-Photographed-By-Rankin-Confirmed-As-A-He.aspx

    Aneurin Barnard mentioned, but if Rankin has just photographed Capaldi & he’s telling the truth…

    #15082
    StingRayBoy @stingrayboy

    @Shazzbot No worries – didn’t want my first ever post being moderated/flamed!
    Never heard of him, so couldn’t comment on the calibre of his twatishness…

    It does seem like a schoolboy error though, which makes me think double bluff.

    2 hours 18 minutes!

    #15083
    Anonymous @

    @stingrayboy – don’t worry, we don’t bite!

    People who post one-liners like ‘the show should be cancelled because I hate Steven Moffat’ will be dealt with harshly, of course.  🙂

    But please join us on the ‘The Next Doctor’ thread – PhaseShift is going to do a liveblog of the programme (see top of page 12) and since many people are talking about how much alcohol they’re going to need to get through Bonnie Langford’s appearance, it should be fun.

    #15092
    StingRayBoy @stingrayboy

    I thought the “I don’t like it, cancel it” brigade were all banished to the Grauniad site? 😀

    I’ll be watching with phone off and internet unplugged, but I’ll be back at 7.30 to say “Not who I wanted, cancel it!” 😉

    #15894
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #16022
    theheadlessmonk @theheadlessmonk

    I would love 8th doctor to come back instead of Tennant

     

    #16396
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Hot! Hot! Hot!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/joey69r/about

    This person has a video you might want to watch…

    Remember that it’s illicit, so be careful what you say.

    Anyone else think that that last line sounded like Jimmy Savile?

    #16397
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed — that was very exciting indeed.

    How do you manage to find this stuff? 😉

    #16398
    jamfilleddonut63 @jamfilleddonut63

    **********Spoilers***********

     

    It could be the Doctors daughter, Jenny.  It was Moffat’s idea for her to live.

    #16399
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @jimthefish

    I can’t be that good a finder – The 1st version was posted on youtube 5 days ago & I managed to miss it.

    I’ve just realised how dodgy ‘illicit’ and ‘Jimmy Savile’ sound for something I’m trying not to draw attention to…

    #16408
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    I’ve gone from avoiding the spoilers thread like the plague at the end of series 7, to it being like catnip (due to the lack of much happening).

    Anyway, @wolfweed the above was a bit cryptic but I think I found what you were pointing at (a bit like a ‘skiffy’ in Eye Spy).  The viewpoint reminded me of a show I went to see at the Edinburgh Festival last week – someone rather tall sat right in front of me.  To add insult to injury he even had a hat on to cut down my view even more.

     

    #16420
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #16422
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    I don’t know what the time table for producing this strip would be, but doesn’t the storyline (or at least the bits shown)rather need more direct input from the production team than just approval given the nature of the two pages your link reproduces ? Since it seems to confirm what (most of us) thought anyway re Hurt Doctor, this is “official” and therefore so is (presumably) the rest as well (that all the Time Lords are in the Matrix and that the Matrix isn’t on Gallifrey as its destroyed) leads you to ask just where is the Matrix stored ? (In the Tardis by any chance ?)

    Since I don’t follow these, I have to ask those who know better, just how reliable is this ?

    Nick

    #16426
    Anonymous @

    @wolfweed – I deleted this from the end of your URL:  /bmi_orig_img/dw1.jpg

    #16427
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @nick   Where is the Matrix?  http://www.comicosity.com/preview-doctor-who-12/

    I’m interested in how we’ve seen Gallifrey blow up in the IDW comics twice now (the every 1st issue and now the very last).
    z

    The 1st time was before The End of Time was shown, with that story’s reveal about the time-lock. I’m not sure if the time-lock was in RTD’s mind until he had to swap the Daleks for the Time Lords when writing TEoT.

    Perhaps the explosion is Gallifrey entering the time-lock, or perhaps this is a separate incident which we’ve yet to witness on the show…?

    #16454
    Nick @nick

    @wolfweed

    From your description, am I right to assume the first explosion is different from the second and that they’re not just the same event. Thanks for the new link. Having read that, It makes me wish I’d read all of the previous ones too.

    Its hard for me to comment on the explosion itself, except that the strip states that the war-Tardis’s  are destroyed (presumably when the Doctor uses the MOMENT to enact the time-lock. I therefore suppose it makes sense that every Dalek and Timelord, ship and planet (etc) would be seen to explode as they left our universe.

    Cheers

    Nick

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