The Day of The Doctor – The 50th Anniversary Special
21 October 2013 at 09:48 #18877
Last thoughts on the trailer for now – if you pause at 0.41 – just past Tennant – check out the symbol on the pillar of rock that Matt’s standing on – looks distinctly Gallifreyan to me. As do the rather noticeably pointy rocks around him (including the Shard), and in the far distance)
(Oh and as Matt says “all my lives” I’m going back to 11 Doctors in a day 😉 )21 October 2013 at 11:15 #18878Anonymous @
thanks for your comments craig,everything is possible when moffat is writing.he recently said what if j.depp played a future version of the doctor,after that i have been thinking about hurt being a future doctor,his last regeneration who refuses to give his name or die,really die no more regenerations.if he gave his name up or died the universe would blow up,so he decides to create a never ending war moment.that would also make sence,since moffat said many times recently doctor can be evil dark,so i expect hurt to be this evil doctor,or doctor zero whith same reasons i said ,that can also work whith this theory21 October 2013 at 11:41 #18879
It would be epically helpful if you would use spaces with punctuation. Your posts reading like a kid who has been given WAY too much sugar. I try to avoid being a grammar Nazi, but seriously: show some consideration for your readers.
A single space after ALL punctuation. Capital letters at the beginning of sentences.21 October 2013 at 11:47 #18881
@scaryb and @craignixon The spidery thing could be a dual reference to the racnoss as per the tagged images, and also the spiders in the Pertwee story, Plant of the Spiders, which was what first came to my mind. Likewise the soldier, which I took to be a U.N.I.T reference but is identified as something else, (temporary break in transmission) could also be dual reference. The trailer is packed with icons and symbols. They can represent more than one thing. Maybe the face in the globe is both Susan, Clara and Sarah Jane. Or maybe that’s taking the idea too far. My partner doesn’t think it is either Susan or Sarah Jane so the jury here is well and truely divided.
I think that if that is Hurt Dr at the end facing Tennant then he is certainly not an aged Dr Eight as McGann is included in the clip. I am leaning heavily towards the @htpbdet theory of Dr Zero and Time war. This is what he has been running from all his life. Perhaps it was what Hurt Dr did to achieve peace that “was not in the name of the Doctor”. Maybe the whole non intervention rule was created by the Doctor who then ran from his own rules. I rather like that idea, the Doctor running from those who apply rules he put in place.
Janette21 October 2013 at 12:04 #18882
he is certainly not an aged Dr Eight as McGann is included in the clip
Good point. I was also wrong when I said he’s the only one with his back to us – 6 is also back facing. Agree re some objects have double reference eg the Shard/Gallifrey.
If “peace and sanity” were achieved with a kind of Beast Below solution, then later Doctors could be a bit p’d off. (And I like the idea of the Doctor running from his own rules)21 October 2013 at 12:04 #18883
Behind the scenes of the Fifty Years Trailer
21 October 2013 at 12:15 #18884CraigNixon @craignixon
Racnoss was my thought but seemed too spidery.
Reminded me most of the True form of IT in the Stephen King movie adaptation.
If it is Hurt before it could be a simple a thing of saying he’ll be facing DT/MT.
One other thing – are they the original actors?
Seems to me the Hartnell and Pertwee weren’t.
Hartnell looks like Filch (Can’t remember real name) and doesn’t Pertwee have a son who looks like him?
Could be why Troughton was only in shadow21 October 2013 at 12:29 #18885
@craignixon – I think the Hartnell was the real Hartnell – but the colourisation and upgrading to HD from black and white and 405 lines was a bit tricky. They probably had a similar problem with Troughton, which is why he’s only seen in siloh … sillou… outline.
Sean Pertwee’s an actor, yes. He has a distinct look of his dad – with modern make-up you could probably adjust things to make him look like the Third Doctor. But the shot in the crystal ball is very definitely Jon Pertwee.
I’d guess that if they could manage to get a ‘clean’ picture of the actor in the pose they needed, they CGI’d that in. If they couldn’t, or the quality just didn’t work, they used a body double. The body doubles are the Doctors we only see from behind – except for Ammo Belt Doctor; that one I’d say they don’t want to show who it is.21 October 2013 at 12:35 #18886CraigNixon @craignixon
Fair enough. Don’t know them well enough to say 100% (I also couldn’t spell sili-whatsit)21 October 2013 at 12:48 #18890Anonymous @
mister i am not a fish,english is not my first language, little understanding please,so i am not trying to hard at making the text look like a english grammar test.i am sure everbody understands what i wrote. mister fish you said it yourself you are a nerd grammar nazi21 October 2013 at 12:52 #18891Anonymous @21 October 2013 at 12:58 #18892
@d12345 – you’ve done very well by providing good theories – so don’t blow it by insulting people.
If you take a look at the Website Comments, you’ll see a very long conversation about the redesign of this site, and the impact of various styles on dyslexics. I’m one of them.
If you miss out capital letters, punctuation and spaces after full stops, you are depriving me of a very large number of ‘clues’ that I need to read you. And I can’t even put my text reader on, because it uses those ‘clues’ as well. I don’t want to sit here slowly reading and re-reading your posts out loud so I can understand what you said; if they’re over a certain length I just won’t bother. This isn’t grammar nazi-dom; it’s just a fact of life.
Punctuation is there to make reading easier; if English is not your first language then see this site as a chance to practice your Standard English on an interesting topic.21 October 2013 at 13:00 #18893Anonymous @
@d12345 – if you want to reply to someone, you really need to properly address them or they won’t see your reply.
Please refer to the Help button in the main menu at the top – it explains how to use the ‘ @ ‘ symbol as well as another option to ensure the person you’re speaking to gets your reply in their Profile -> Mentions. Look in the ‘Making a Comment’ section.
I’m always sensitive to people on our Forum for whom English is not their first language (by the way, what is your primary language?). But that having been said, punctuation is pretty much the same in most Western languages – a space after a full stop or a comma helps to separate different thoughts/sentences, and makes it easier to read and understand your posts. And new sentences begin with a capital letter.
Please avoid being abusive to other members; you were given constructive criticism by @pedant, who I’m sure said what he did because he wants to enjoy your posts as much as he enjoys everyone else’s posts.21 October 2013 at 13:05 #18895
My Uncle wanted to know whether anyone else thought that John Hurt was the policeman at the very beginning of the trailer.
He thinks it is Hurt.21 October 2013 at 13:08 #18896Anonymous @
Hiya Mini-HTPBDET(s) – please see this post –
Of course, those are the credits for the original Unearthly Child; it could be Reg Cranfield’s image CGI’d into the trailer, or it could be a new image of John Hurt …21 October 2013 at 13:20 #18898
Hi mini @htpbdet s Please pass on our regards to your uncle. I thought it was Hurt at the end but not at the beginning however I did wonder why the policeman was there. He as the only element in the trailer that didn’t quite belong. I have to rewatch the original episode now as I don’t recall a policeman in it though I assumed that opening sequence was taken from An Unearthly Child. Looking at the screen cap he certainly has a look of John Hurt but I am certain it isn’t him. Unfortunately it is too late here but I am certain that someone else will check.
Janette21 October 2013 at 13:31 #18900
Thank you Miss Shazzbot.
I am confused though.
Does this mean you think it is Hurt or that you don’t?
Uncle is certain it is not the same policeman from Unearthly Child.
He is also struck with how every Doctor and Companion is frozen in action – as if locked.
He wonders if Hurt is there playing the Policman, what is he doing? Has he just sealed the Time War with the Doctors all inside?
He is also interested that the Tom Baker image is falling – he wonders if that is a nod to the end of Genesis?
He is wondering if Hurt (whether Dr Zero or Dr 13 or whoever he is) seals the Time War one way and and because Dr 11 has gone to Trenzalore, the one place he should not, he has a chance to undo what Hurt has done and seal it a different way.
He also thinks the reflection could be Susan and wondered if it will turn out that Sarah-Jane Smith was Susan all the time under a Chameleon Arch. We were excited by that idea, but he did not seem too keen.
He is very frustrated to not be able to have access to technlogy.
Mini-HTPBDET(s)21 October 2013 at 13:47 #18901
Hi mini-HTPBDET. I certainly thought it might have been John Hurt at first glance, although studying the screen cap that @Shazzbot referred to, I’m less convinced. I’ve searched for Reg Cranfield on Google and I agree with your uncle that the new picture doesn’t seem to be him. I thought it might in fact be an image from Mark Gatiss’ forthcoming drama-doc. Certainly I thought the opening scenes could have re-used the Trotter’s Lane sets that they may well have recreated for the documentary.
Please tell your uncle we all wishing him well here.
Nick21 October 2013 at 13:48 #18902
@htpbdet (and mini-HTPBDET(s) 🙂 )
Re the policeman – I reckon (after far too much starting and stopping of youtube clips!) it’s the original policeman from An Unearthly Child – but the CGI process has given him the slightly unreal look of Hartnell. Have a look at the first few seconds of this – not just for the policeman but to see how closely the trailer patterns the very first seconds of the very first episode (including the pram). 😀
Re T Baker falling – could be ref to Genesis but could also be ref to his final fall in Logopolis.
Tell him his Doctor Zero theory is proving popular and ask him what he thinks of the Doctor taking a time-out for the last 50 years? And is now going back to whatever HurtDr did, to fix it. The whole thing looks like a frozen explosion to me.
Some of us also think the reflection could be Susan, but not certain. (Chameleon arched as S-J… hmmm)
He is very frustrated to not be able to have access to technlogy.
I feel his pain! But tell him to focus on getting better and then he can access all the tech he wants 😉21 October 2013 at 13:53 #18903
“He is wondering if Hurt (whether Dr Zero or Dr 13 or whoever he is) seals the Time War one way and and because Dr 11 has gone to Trenzalore, the one place he should not, he has a chance to undo what Hurt has done and seal it a different way.”
I think your uncle might well be right there. It is possible that the difference will be who is able to leave Gallifrey. Long ago we came up with the idea that the children and perhaps the non time lord Gallifreyan’s (assuming that there are some) will be allowed to escape as a result of Smith Doctor’s actions, and that Clara, being a nanny, will take care of the children in her various incarnations. Whew. It’s late here so I hope that makes sense.
Interesting how recently so many different theories seem to be fitting together. We will soon have our very own 50th scripted. Moffat has some stiff competition here..:)
Janette21 October 2013 at 14:01 #18904
Thank you Miss ScaryB and Miss janetteB
I will tell Uncle.
He will, I think, be interested that Miss ScaryB thinks the policemen could be Hartnell.
I forgot to mention that Unlcle wondered whether the Policeman was meant to be a Zygon copy of the Hurt Dr.
Mine HTPBDET(s)21 October 2013 at 14:04 #18905Anonymous @
@nick – neat thought there, on Mark Gatiss’s programme and how a contemporary actor could be portraying the original policeman – a still of which was used for this trailer.
Not that I want to get all … erm, is this Spelling Dalek? … on you, but @htpbdet‘s nephew claims Matt Smith as one of ‘his’ Doctors where his uncle stubbornly 😀 refuses to do so, so mini-HTPBDET(s) carries the parenthetical ‘S’ but HTPBDET doesn’t.21 October 2013 at 14:10 #18906
No no no! I don’t think the policeman’s Hartnell (although it’s a thought) – I was suggesting the CGI process used to upgrade Hartnell’s image was the same as that used on the policeman. BUT – sorry, changed my mind – I don’t think it’s the original policeman – at least not from the original footage – the ’63 one wears his chin strap much tighter (Dixon of Dock Green style!) (@Nick could be right re the footage from the documentary)
Love the idea he’s a Zygon copy – there’s a noticeable (and noted) lack of (obvious) Zygons in the trailer 😉21 October 2013 at 14:11 #18907
Dear mini-HTPBDETS (I really think it should be a capital S), I apologize for being completely unobservant on that !
Nick21 October 2013 at 14:11 #18908Anonymous @
Ooooh, @scaryb – wow. Just wow. Had a look at your clip and now I see Hartnell all over that bobby’s face! Is it the power of suggestion? Or was that something that just always ‘was there’ and no-one caught it? I know your comment was more along the lines that the policeman in the trailer doesn’t quite look ‘real’ as Hartnell also does not look ‘real’ in the trailer, and that they’re probably both the original although skewed a bit by CGI, but …
(Bought a stash of BG Who DVDs from the BBC Shop last week – which include An Unearthly Child – but due to am-dram commitments haven’t delved into them just yet.)21 October 2013 at 14:17 #18909Anonymous @
i did not pay attention,but i see you all type the text in the same manner,as if you are all writers for the new york times,this is silly to me,but i respect the opinion of most of you.i am not use to type in a such.. for me to formal way.i am the computer caveman.and i am not emberessed to admit it.my apologies to mister fish i didn t know you all write the same way.i didn t mean to insult anbody.cheers from croatia21 October 2013 at 14:30 #18910
Shazzbot, I’m sorry I don’t see any specific resemblance to Hartnell at all. I found a still image (lifted from the video I suppose) of the policeman via Google image search for Reg Cranfield (the original actor). here the difference in resemblance is much clearer to see.
It could well be Hurt in the trailer though, although I’m not entirely convinced from the still frame you posted (I found the moving image appeared closer to Hurt in impression). Regardless of the image processing they’ve done, I find it very difficult to believe its an image of Reg in the trailer.
Nick21 October 2013 at 14:32 #18911Anonymous @
@d12345 – well, since my Croatian is limited to ‘prirodna limunada’ and I imagine not many other people on this Forum speak much more Croatian than that, you would do well to abide by @bluesqueakpip‘s suggestion that you use this Forum as an opportunity to practice your English, on a topic that obviously interests you.
And you would also do well to listen to the many suggestions that you use punctuation properly, so that everyone is able to read your posts clearly. Our concerns are not about your vocabulary and grammar in English, simply that you provide spaces between sentences and capital letters to begin sentences.
I know that @pedant will be glad to hear your apologies, although calling him ‘mister fish’ when his displayed name is ‘I Am Not A Fish I Am A Free Man’ is a tad insulting **.
** uvredljiv21 October 2013 at 14:32 #18912
Is it the power of suggestion?
But what about those first few seconds though? (Unearthly Child and the trailer). At least I’m happy I know where the pram comes from now.
@nick I agree with you, I don’t think it’s from the original footage – check out the chinstrap
PS @Shazzbot – I admire your patience :-). Disingenuous comes to my mind, but I have (often!) been wrong before21 October 2013 at 14:44 #18913
mister i am not a fish,english is not my first language,
Then think of this place as an excellent venue to practise good English surrounded by people who share a common interest with you.
English, arguably more than any other language, relies on rhythm and cadence to get its message across and these rhythms and cadences are denoted by punctuation and spacing. They are the most basic foundations of communication in written English and the most important rules are:
– A capital at the beginning of each sentence
– A space after each punctuation mark
– A paragraph at the end of each complete idea.
Everything else is secondary to this – spelling, syntax and grammar are all up for grabs, but not this.
@bluesqueakpip has given a compelling reason why.
You may find the following useful
- A full stop (or period) is a break in a chain of thought – or, perhaps more precisely, the end of a single complete thought. If in doubt, use a full stop;
- A comma is a pause which, properly placed, controls the emphasis within a thought, in particular clarifying (or confusing when used wrongly) the subject and object;
- A semi-colon is a slightly longer pause – which is why it is so useful in denoting items in a list – and to my mind this is why it can be very useful for creating a dramatic effect. But, as such, it is a little like a strong herb (rosemary, say): too much and it overwhelms the meat;
- The colon pause, of course, rests somewhere between a semi-colon and a full stop: it is best used, I think, where a thought is incomplete, but a big intake of breath would be needed if speaking. It can be used as a substitute for ‘and’.
I am happy to discuss further by PM, since this place is not an English course. So long as your remain courteous.21 October 2013 at 14:46 #18914
Just awoke to find a crazy level of forensic attention being paid to the faces in the mini trailer.
Hate to say this, but I think it is simply that the CGI process enhances (and simultaneously distorts) the original TV images. So I think the policeman is BASED ON the original policeman; same with Hartnell, Baker, even Tennant (who looks rather unreal as the camera flys past him).
The only faces that come across as “real” are Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman, and it may be as simple as the fact that they were the only “real” actors used in the making of the mini trailer.
Am personally still hoping the face in the globe is Susan, but will admit it comes across as a strange CGI amalgam of Susan and Sarah Jane.
I realise this all sounds like a theory LESS insane than what is actually going on…perhaps the result of being affected by the strange air of Canadian sobriety I find myself in.21 October 2013 at 14:49 #18915
Apart from one deliberately pays homage to the other, I obviously don’t see what you do 🙂 I’ve seen a few colour pictures of Hartnell on a few of the First Doctor DVDs that really look quite similar to the clearest Hartnell image in the trailer, so I’m afraid I don’t see anything particular their either :(.
Nick21 October 2013 at 15:09 #18916
I get a certain sense that there’s meant to be a 3D trailer (and its meant to be seen that way) and I therefore wonder if the 3D to 2D conversion has also had an impact. I agree with your comment on the stylization of the images . It looks to me that they’ve certainly used CGI effects on some of the images they’ve used to give this sort of style. The globe image is a case in point. I can see a bit of Jenna, Liz and Carole in there, no doubt deliberately.
Nick21 October 2013 at 15:14 #18917
EVERYONE looks slightly waxy/unreal in the trailer. As if they are museum pieces (and remember the trailer for NotD which had Matt and Clara going through what looked like an old attic/museum with lots of Doctor artefacts). That has to be a deliberate choice (and not just about conversion of 3D/2D images, although it might have a bit to do with it as @nick pointed out). But do check out the chinstrap on the policeman, it’s definitely not the original broadcast footage.
The ONLY person who moves (and talks) is Matt.
Get well soon – I need backup! Especially someone to squee over those first few seconds of the trailer as much as I am – it’s exactly the way An Unearthly Child starts. 🙂21 October 2013 at 15:25 #18920Anonymous @
Prirodna limunada hahaha. Very good. When i say mister fish i mean that in a funny way and not insultig way. Mister fish you are right! Your discripcion of english is like i am listening to an english profesor . Languages are very different , for example we Croatians write this kind of way only in formal occasions , but i undersand what you are saying. Let as go back to our doctor. I think this 50-th episode will have nothing to do with any of companions , maybe little bit of Clara and Rose but nothing related to the plot of the story . The day of the doctor , it is going to be all about the doctor , i expect first 15-20 minutes to be alomst like his autobiography . Second important thing is doctors enemy in the 50-th epiosode . Daleks are coming , we all know that , but i am going to be very , yery , dissapointed if master does not appear .What kind of anniversary episode can you make and not put master in it . That would be uf not good not good. For me there is one interesting fact , the great inteligence appears only once before , whith the second doctor , and never after that . The master first appears with the third doctor , almost right away after g . i. dissapeared for 40 doctor who years .I think there is not many main villains who dissapeared in that way . For me this could mean that master invented the g . i. And that could be interesting . I am almost sure that J. Hurt created the “moment” of never ending war to save the universe . The only question is , is Hurt a zero doctor , a future doctor , or doctor between 8-th and 9-th , or vaylear , or … Great show , for me the only bad thing is , that in most situations the seasons do not have a main plot , main story , to many non related episodes . I am not looking for somekind of sope opera story , but a season has to have a main plot story , main villain in at least 4-5 episodes . Just my opinion. Cheers !21 October 2013 at 16:12 #18923
Languages are very different , for example we Croatians write this kind of way only in formal occasions
Yes, but this is an English language forum: our house; our rules
But more to the point, a paragraph break after “i undersand what you are saying.” would make you post MUCH easier to read.
All of the seasons of Who have an “arc” – the main plot you refer to, but serial drama usually used the “A B C plot” structure. The A plot is the season arc – the main plot. The B plot may be the main plot of a single episode but the A plot will usually be referenced at least in passing. The C plot may be light relief, but will likely also provide metaphorical commentary on the A or B plot.
Some episodes will emphasise the A plot with a small B plot, some will have a big B plot and just drop hints about the A plot.
Sometimes, just as a spacer or because someone has a reallycoolfuckingidea(tm) an individual episode will be all B plot (see Blink, for example).
And in the case of Doctor Who, at least since Moffat took over, there has been one fucking huge A plot arcing over all else.21 October 2013 at 16:26 #18926
The chinstrap on the policeman, Oswin Oswald refers to the Doctor as “the chin”… Is there the potential for s completely new bonkers “chin” theory?21 October 2013 at 16:27 #18927Anonymous @
I admire your patience
Actually, it’s the first time ‘fresh lemonade’ has garnered a laugh (‘hahaha’ from pedant’s favourite Newbie-of-the-Day). Usually, the Croatian waiter ** just brought it to me at the table unquestioningly. 😀
** Mmmm, Croatian waiters … don’t get me started … 😆
Actually, I was delighted to be reminded of my holiday in Croatia. It was the last pre-Airedale holiday I had (i.e., the last one requiring a passport and not requiring dog-friendly accommodation). Anyone who hasn’t been, I highly recommend it – especially doing as I did, island-hopping from Split to Dubrovnik in September, at the vagaries of the local boats’ erratic time schedules. Beautiful country, beautiful sea, and amazing islands (even if their countrymen haven’t been too well represented here lately).
YES YES I KNOW – Topic Dalek says ‘Ex-Cog-i-Tate!’ on whether this post should be moved to On the Sofa. 🙂21 October 2013 at 16:27 #18928
All of the seasons of Who have an “arc”
Only in AG Who. BG Who generally didn’t have a series arc. Unless you count the very loose link of the companions’ stories. And except occasionally when it did (season long or a few stories long) 😉
The great thing about Dr Who is it loves breaking its own (and everyone else’s) rules.
Scary Pedant 😉21 October 2013 at 16:31 #18929
First it was lewd remarks about London hotel room-service staff, now Croatian waiters.
What ARE they putting in the water round your way…?! (And fling some over here please!) 😉
LOL @blenkinsopthebrave‘s new Chin theory. btw I reckon your Break the 4th Wall theory might be due for a dusting off and re-examining.21 October 2013 at 17:01 #18932
Regarding the ‘John Hurt’ is the policeman thingy: the following thoughts occur. Firstly, is that what The Doctor changed his name from? He was originally called The Policeman? Or he originally was a police officer?
Secondly, is that why the TARDIS sticks resolutely to the Police Box appearance, even to the extent of keeping it as his tomb? It’s a police officer (one whose job is to keep the peace) inside the box?
Thirdly – or is this Moffat’s little joke about Inspector Spacetime?
(Okay, I’ll get me coat for ‘Thirdly’)
🙂21 October 2013 at 17:11 #1893321 October 2013 at 17:11 #18934Anonymous @
No, @bluesqueakpip – leave your coat in that jumble on the coat rack for a mo’.
That’s quite an interesting thought … Was ‘the Doctor’ not his first name? Was what the Hurt Doctor did that is so abominable to 11 (and perhaps previous incarnations) in the name of ‘upholding the law’ rather than ‘providing succor to those who need aid?’
Knowing the only thing we know now (and PLEASE correct me as I’m probably wrong!) about the Doctor scampering from Gallifrey because he was stifled by their rules – their laws – their unwavering, unsympathetic ability to watch whole civilisations, whole galaxies die, simply because they refused to help …
Could this be the moment he decided to stop being ‘The Bobby’ and become ‘The Doctor’?21 October 2013 at 17:18 #1893621 October 2013 at 17:32 #18939Anonymous @
@blenkinsopthebrave – Mrs Blenkinsop is a wise woman. 😀21 October 2013 at 17:42 #18941
@blenkinsopthebrave – that’s exactly what she wants you to think.
She’s plotting something. Be afraid.21 October 2013 at 17:50 #18943
That Policeman can’t have been played by John Hurt. He didn’t have a beard…
21 October 2013 at 18:03 #18945Anonymous @21 October 2013 at 18:17 #18946
@Shazzbot – If that’s not John Hurt playing the Policeman I’ll eat my own beard! I thought it a certainty from 1st viewing.
As for chinstraps, they’re very handy for stopping your helmet fall off. Though perhaps the Hurt Dr did everything ‘In the name of The Police-Chin’ (because that’s his moniker…)21 October 2013 at 18:26 #18948Anonymous @
@wolfweed – hope you’re low on fibre – you’re about to ingest a faceful. 🙂
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