The Fox Inn
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Craig 7 years, 6 months ago.
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26 April 2016 at 20:44 #51923
They had their chance to print the truth (or just stayed silent). They chose to print lies. I doubt whether there are people who care that they printed their ‘real’ truth. I don’t know why they bothered. Did they expect that people would forgive them (I doubt) or start to buy their paper again?
26 April 2016 at 21:48 #51924@mersey — I doubt it. It’s without a doubt the most shameful moment in British journalism. Even that front page doesn’t seem particularly contrite, if you ask me…
26 April 2016 at 22:53 #51926Anonymous @
awesome video ’bout Prince -laughed & laughed.
As to Hillsborough, I know some of the details @jimthefish -but, many I don’t
There’s cover-ups?
Huh?
Puro
27 April 2016 at 15:05 #51936@puroandson — not that much of a cover-up considering that everyone could see just how unjust the whole thing was. I’d recommend Jimmy McGovern’s docudrama Hillsborough or his Cracker story To Be A Somebody to anyone who wanted a bit of background….
27 April 2016 at 15:16 #51937How the papers reacted to the Hillsborough inquest verdict.
27 April 2016 at 18:01 #51940Watching live coverage of the Hillsborough vigil now. I half meant to go to that match (as a Forest supporter), but instead I was in my kitchen, just across the valley from Hillsborough, wondering what was going on, and why the football had stopped and weeping and weeping as the death toll climbed through the rest of that day. I have never understood how those lies could have been believed, so widely, and proved so persistent in the face of the evidence – testament to the prejudice against football fans, against scousers, against working class people, and the shameless determination of the powers that be to cover their own backsides at all costs. The lies are nailed now, and the 96 and survivors and families are finally vindicated, and it should never have taken 27 years. I met a couple of the family members a few years back, just after the Independent Panel had completed their deliberations, and I shook their hands and embarassingly burst into tears as I tried to explain how I admired their dignity and courage, their refusal to settle for anything less than truth and justice. Tears again now as the families come out onto the steps of St Georges Hall.
Yes, watch Jimmy McGovern’s drama. At the time people said it was too polemical, it was overstating things, it was biased. Everything in it has been vindicated since. I honestly didn’t think we would ever get to this point, I thought the prejudice was too entrenched, the vested interests too strong. But here we are.
27 April 2016 at 18:34 #51941@puroandson
Hillsborough – 96 Liverpool fans dead after catastrophic overcrowding on terraces. 15-4-89
Nutshell: due to an accident on the motorway delaying a lot of fans, and appalling police planning, the woefully inadequate turnstiles at Hillsborough (a neutral ground for the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest) were overwhelmed, causing a 5,000 person crush outside the ground, through sheer weight of numbers (not misbehaviour).
As kick-off approached an officer outside first asked for kick-off to be delayed, and when this was refused, fearing that people would be killed requested that an exit gate – Gate C – be opened to let the fans in about 8 mins before kick-off. Around 2,000 came in at a steady walk (as in unavoidable in such situations) and, quite reasonably, headed down 1-in-6 the tunnel towards the pitch side terraces. But the pens at the end of that tunnel were already overcrowded. In the same fixture in 1988 (with the same teams, by coincidence) access to this tunnel was blocked to push fans to the side entrances and the nearly empty pens there.
The match kicked off at 3.00pm. At 3:02pm, Liverpool hit the crossbar and the crowd surged forward – probably killing many people at that point and also sucking more into the crush. Fences around the pitch prevented escape onto the pitch. By about 3:04pm it was obvious to all except one person that a disaster was unfolding and at 3:06pm the match was stopped.
At 3:15pm, that one person, Match Commander David Duckenfield told Graham Kelly, chairman of the Football Association, that fans had forced open that gate. In fact it was opened on his order.
That is when the cover up started. At that time, probably about 40-50 of the fatalities could have been saved, but the response from police and emergency services was slow and uncoordinated and for too long predicted on the assumption that is was a public order problem, rather than a public safety disaster.
Over the next few days police started filtering lies about supporters assaulting police, robbing casualties, and urinating on the dead (many of the dead had, of course, involuntarily evacuated).
On 19-4-89 the Sun published the front page shown upthread. Other papers ran the story but all presented as “police claims” not “The Truth”. Only Murdoch’s The Sun did that.
26 years later, at the second inquest, Duckenfield finally apologised for the lie he told and his incompetence on the day.
This second inquest, in turn, was prompted by the findings of the 2012 Hillsborough Independent Panel, which identified that that at least 164 police statements had been tampered with to remove criticism of police conduct.
It was described as the biggest cover up in the history of UK policing.
Sports journalist David Conn has done a magnificent summary in the Guardian.
Yesterday the second inquest, after two year hearings, returned a verdict of Unlawful Killing, the original inquest’s verdict of Accidental Death having been quashed.
This morning Rupert Murdoch’s The Sun did not put the story on its front page, preferring some celebs sex life. Nor did The Times in its first edition. Every other paper led with it.
27 April 2016 at 18:52 #51942@puroandson
Don’t know it is is region-locked, but today’s front pages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-36147007
28 April 2016 at 00:04 #51946Mr @pedant
thank you
As always we, the hybrid must thank you for giving us these explanations (we ask a lot). I had no idea about this at all -none of this history at all. Mum knew about the actual disaster but not about the cover up.She did ask my uncle and he responded with expletives and you are an idiot for not knowing -maybe so . But this is interesting to finally know the truth and recognise that there is some respect for these people after all this time and some justice where it should be.
This is a really big thing -and no wonder its on the front pages of the papers. I will check ours -lying on the path somewhere right now.
@cathannabel -that was very sad and the way you wrote that I can see that it must have been terrible for you and for many others both later and those listening. What a terrible event. We don’t ever hear about that in school. It’s like its hidden or something.
Thank you.
Son
28 April 2016 at 11:57 #51947On a different note Son is doing some persuasive shite on why animals shouldn’t be in cages.
He is not allowed to use firstly, secondly, etc. Which is fine. But should he ever be confused with a really smart person one of his statements causing laughter (due to the accompanying cartoon images) was:
“Caged animals cannot feel the sun on their fluffy bodies, see the sky, smell the flowers and feel the fresh air on their sharp little beaks.”
My son, the …well…. something. Good grief.
PuroSolo (obviously)
28 April 2016 at 11:58 #51948I am against caged animals in case you thought I was a Donald Trump person.
It’s just the argument aint convincing?
28 April 2016 at 18:46 #51949@puroandson But are you against caged people? Could we cage Donald Trump, for instance? Some people in Canada have been asking if they could build a wall along our border as well, to keep Trump out.
As to Son’s persuasive essay, well, it depends upon whom he has to persuade. I’d say he gets the concept of pathos as a rhetorical tool very well! My son had to do one last year, and he wrote on why the school day should start an hour later. He included a vivid description of what he personally goes through every morning (he is so far from being a morning person nowadays that he is pretty much the Platonic archetype of The Teenager). His classmates found it very persuasive indeed, so much so that they chose him to represent the class in the school-wide oratorical competition. This was a great triumph for him as English is not one of his strongest subjects. Had metaphors or symbolism been involved, I doubt he would have done as well. 🙂
28 April 2016 at 19:21 #51951@arbutus @puroandson
But are you against caged people?
“If you treat people like prisoners of war, you should not be surprised if they act like them” – Lord Justice Taylor, on the release of the original Hillsborough Inquiry, 1990.
28 April 2016 at 19:43 #51954The joy…not!
Craig, might it be an idea for you to disable the private message function for a while? Perhaps these annoyances will get frustrated and move on to another unlucky part of the Internet.
28 April 2016 at 19:47 #51956@blenkinsopthebrave I have floated that one before and the general consensus was that it was nice to have even if it gets abused occassionally. But as the site is quiter at the mo, and we seem to have had a rash of these maybe we should shut it for a while. I’ll post in website comments to see what people think.
28 April 2016 at 21:13 #51962indeed. Son and I had quite a time discussing the Hillsborough incident yesterday. In garden we talked about why, when Son was watching the Soccer a day or so ago, that I just couldn’t.
The article in the Guardian was terrific in it’s fullness (is that a propa xpression -dunno, morphine talking this AM?) and the 12 mins movie left Son absolutely bloody speechless.
I’ll give that quote to young Son to take to his exam though they are allowed no planning notes 🙁
In the past, kids could bring in half a page of vetted notes/quotes. Now, due to cheats, they can’t. There’ll be some twit with a tiny phone feeding their google question onto paper.
Makes me miss my job, you know, throwing the duster and the chalk at them. 🙂
28 April 2016 at 21:19 #51963sorry there -missed the tag. Huh huh, that DOES sound persuasive.
Well done to your Son. Mine does OK at English and OK at Math (unlike me at that age: I discovered the joys of math at 23 or thereabouts) but he is LAZY. I gave him some points and it was “say that again?”
I said “read it yourself or Goggle it for heaven’s sake.”
“Oh later” he said. Then he went to bed. It will not be an A/B I believe. He has to learn to fall and then be one of those ppl they show on telly on the ‘bad’ channel who has a kid at 19, steals radios to fund it, then steals a car and ends up in jail being eyed by King Kong the Rapist.
OK. I’m over doing it, but still. LAZY Son.
Peeved P.
29 April 2016 at 00:13 #51967I wonder if there’s an IP pattern. Might it be worth blocking Ukraine (or wherever) for a bit?
@puroandson
Taylor used the POW imagery a fair bit in the report and the quote is from when he presented it. He had seen right through the lies of the police (hardly a surprise – he may have been a High Court Judge, but he was also a season ticket holder at Newcastle United and knew the score). There was a culture of hatred towards football fans (partly self-inflicted, to be sure) that gets right to the roots of the British class system. I’ll probably get to this in a vague ramble soon.
King Kong the Rapist
I think you mean Fisty McRapesalot (Have you watched Veronica Mars yet?)
29 April 2016 at 01:04 #51968Ah yes, The Vague ramble: excellent, my friend.
Fisty McRapesalot? ho-la boo!
No, I haven’t watched VM yet. I am currently stuck happily on House S5-6. It’s utterly ‘addicting’ -Son’s words. He says he doesn’t “get” most of what is said but loves it anyway. Meanwhile I have the script up on the laptop and then google half the plots (after the watch) in order to work it out retrospectively. 🙂
….He had seen right through the lies of the police (hardly a surprise – he may have been a High Court Judge, but he was also a season ticket holder at Newcastle United and knew the score). There was a culture of hatred towards football fans (partly self-inflicted, to be sure…
Very interesting -I’ve now read as much as possible on the matter and Son and I have had some interesting discussions about it. At his training session last night some of the “oldster” coaches actually talked about it. Son is 14 but in an under 18 group of players (all bigger and taller even than he -and he’s tall!). Not one of the children knew about the Hillsborough incident. It was good to know that someone in Australia at the Olympic club knew about this tragic situation in the ’80s.
Kindest
Puro
29 April 2016 at 05:34 #51970@puroandson (Solo) Free the gryphons! Cages are lousy under most circumstances, but a well-designed zoological garden is more for protection of animals from crazy, greedy, desperate humans than v.v.
@craig @blenkinsopthebrave — heard from “carolyn” this morning. She has fallen in love with my profile. Do I even have a profile?
29 April 2016 at 06:57 #51974Much, much too long.
Cheers,
Missy
29 April 2016 at 18:44 #51980@puroandson – and anyone else interested.
As promised, Vague Ramble: Hillsborough: truth, class and lies.
29 April 2016 at 20:39 #51982@pedant Thanks for linking. You make so many good points, not all of them limited to sport. I should probably stop being surprised at how ready people are to believe whatever line is being fed, the spin and the stereotyping, and how little interest there often is in knowing the facts of a matter.
Robert Kelsey’s words that you quote, and your own thoughts about the way in which ordinary people are manipulated by corporate and media interests into attitudes that are in nobody’s interest, resonated strongly. I have pretty much given up following major league hockey, where fan vitriol has become pretty awful, even to the extent of occasional occurrences of violence and rioting, and despite talking the talk, teams still persist in treating their players like hired thugs or battering rams. Players who spent their careers as “enforcers” are starting to die of concussion-related issues (drugs and suicide not least). We all talk about this problem in the culture, but there is still huge money in it for corporate interests, and fans still go on supporting the violence with their dollars, and being gulled into believing that disrespecting rival teams and their fans in the most unpleasant ways is acceptable. Even their own teams aren’t spared when fans aren’t happy with results. Those of us with athletic children are now seeing these attitudes starting to contaminate youth sport. Kids diss each other during team handshakes, coaches shout abuse at their own players, players are encouraged in cheap shots and borderline or outright illegal plays, and I won’t even get into the behaviour of some of the parents. All because people are being encouraged into a belief that there is always an “us versus them”, whether in sport, in business, or in the functioning of our nations and cultures.
Frustrating, incomprehensible, and so, so sad.
29 April 2016 at 22:53 #51983I have friends in Boston, so am legally obliged to be a Red Sox fan, and have a passing interest in the Celtics. But the Bruins had all but passed me by until the won the Stanley Cup.
I read about the trouble in Vancouver afterwards and gently ribbed a few Canuck chums. By God did they not like the comparison with football, but I’ve seen hooliganism and I know what it looks like.
And yes, CTE is finally being recognised as a major problem.
30 April 2016 at 00:17 #51984@pedant No, they would not have liked that. We don’t like to think that this kind of behaviour can happen here, but of course it can, and does. We have exactly the same percentage of goons and buffoons as anyplace else. And in Vancouver, we do like to think that we are all chill all the time, but it ain’t so. I get proof of this every time I drive my car.
30 April 2016 at 02:09 #51987I don’t know if anyone subscribes to The Poke ? I usually get it on Saturdays. Today’s was particularly funny. I’d link it but my head is all dicked up.
Anyway, check out The Poke: truly, lots of giggles.
Captain Obvious Signs are some of the best: such as….no, you have read and see it for yourself.
30 April 2016 at 03:39 #51989@pedant and @arbutus I remember when this terrible accident happened and how it was reported here in Canada. We were told that that it was caused by rioting fans and also told about the robbing and urinating. As told , it was a shocking event caused by bad/stupid people. Being pre-internet the newspapers and TV were my only sources and after a few weeks they stopped reporting on it . Only in the last few days have I heard the truth of what happened that day and I am angry about the lies told to everyone. I am disgusted with the people that covered up and lied about this tragedy and put the blame on the victims in order to protect their asses. Thank goodness the truth has been revealed.
30 April 2016 at 04:58 #51992@puroandson Okay, that’s 30 minutes Mr. Arbutus and I won’t get back. And I foresee more minutes going the same way in the future. I especially liked the guy getting pizza delivered while on a five-hour train trip. 🙂
30 April 2016 at 06:02 #51995LOL! Dear Miss, it’s very funny isn’t it! Mum and I love it: some she won’t let me see but others are really good. some of the texts that ppl send each other are hilarious!
one where a person says a teacher said the star is a sun? The kid goes on to say “no the star is a star and a sun is a sun. It’s like saying a tomato is a fruit when it’s not!”. Oh boy, did that make me ROFL.
dear @winston yes, I agree too. It was a terrible tragedy, what happened and then how the police statements were changed to make it look like the footy people did it all.
Thank you,
Son (puricle)
30 April 2016 at 14:06 #52005Thanks @winston – but it is worth spelling out: it was not an accident. It was unlawful killing (the jury verdict).
30 April 2016 at 15:17 #52006@puroandson
The Poke is wonderful. There are some many ’round up of funny stuff’ sites, but The Poke consistently gets the tone right.
“Do not breath under water.”
30 April 2016 at 23:59 #52013Whoo-ee I agree. There’s also “entry to sea —–>”. Cripes, you’d be in real trouble. Even the blind etc….
Indeed, on the other dreadful event: yes, no accident. Unlawful killing.
2 May 2016 at 05:53 #52053@puroandson Responding to this bit over here so as not to get modded.
I do find that getting one’s hands dirty, in the soil and planting something is the best relief of all (something primal and ancient perhaps?).
You remind me of my son when he was three, starting preschool for the first time. He instinctively dealt with his stress at the beginning by spending all his free play time at the play doh table, rolling dough and cutting it up. It suddenly became his favourite activity. I think getting tactile with things is very good for us, on the whole. I have read a lot lately about natural ways of balancing hormones, and certain types of “restful activities” tend to come up. Gardening is definitely a good one! Spring is here on the west coast, actually we have had a lot of very summery days recently, and I’m out taking another shot at making things grow. Whatever the failures, something always succeeds, and it makes me feel good just to look at the things that are flourishing.
5 May 2016 at 04:23 #52133I have just finished one of the best tv endings to a series ever. It was @pedant who mentioned “stop watching the dreck you’re viewing (and I was) and finish House”.
I just watched the last ep of S5 -unbelievable television. Fully into it. I’m amazed more people didn’t talk about it in Aus years ago.
here goes S6! Yippee.
Kindest and thanks MrP,
Puro and Son (who is home with bronchitis and watching with Puro)
5 May 2016 at 05:13 #52134@puroandson
Oh Yuk! Bronchitis, nasty. I trust son will recover quickly.
Cheers,
Missy
5 May 2016 at 13:12 #52140@arbutus Autumn here means the start of gardening season. I am eagerly awaiting the autumn rains before I start planting as I am so tired of watering. They are quite late this year. I have a few plans for the winter. I hope to remove at least one unwanted bush which is taking up far too much space and plant a couple of shrubs. I also plan on planting another fruit tree as the plum I put in last year survived the summer.
I agree re’ doing tactile things. Of late I have been helping paint miniatures for D&D. There is a near bottomless pit of things to be painted so I have plenty more of that kind of work to do between designing flyers, posters, and writing press releases. (All of which I should be doing right now.)
@puroandson
I hope son will be back on his feet soon. Bronchitis is indeed no fun at all.
Cheers
Janette.
5 May 2016 at 19:18 #52145@puroandson
Yep, those last 4 or 5 episodes really showed what you could do to manage viewer expectations – and then confound them.
5 May 2016 at 22:27 #52148@puroandson Yes! The last few episodes of that season were killer. It was actually one of the high points of the whole series for me. That finale was incredible, a sucker punch to the gut and such a great payoff for the previous five seasons of assholery that we went through. One of the many great things about that show was how the writers (and Hugh Laurie with his characterization) wouldn’t let us completely like House no matter how much we wanted to! We want to romanticize an antihero, but there was no romanticizing of House. Continue to enjoy, it’s a roller coaster.
Sorry Son is not feeling well; hang in there and enjoy the telly. 🙂
5 May 2016 at 23:14 #52151thank you re: Son. he’ll be fine! He can watch House although he spent a lot of time sleeping (what a relief after “what can I do now?” boredom)
Ah, yes, the garden: the things which don’t flourish. I was out there the other day and expletives were rolling off my tongue: about 20% of the lettuces needed to be pulled out and then people would walk past commenting politely and I’d say “no, it’s shit, and do YOU want to do it?” Fortunately I smiled back and shrugged and they didn’t think I was a sociopath. After that.
D &D Is that what I think it is?? 🙂 @janetteb?
@ichabod yes indeed gardening is great. Really. I tell myself this daily when it’s still 30 degrees in May and I am utterly confused about the seasons. Or lack of. Because we have mushrooms now. It’s like Alice in Wonderland and there IS a cat around too.
5 May 2016 at 23:15 #52152@missy and to you -thank you for your kind words.
<Puro and Son nods happily>
6 May 2016 at 08:28 #52155“What, are you gardeners? I hate gardening! What sort of a person has a power complex about flowers? It’s dictatorship for inadequates. Or to put it another way, it’s dictatorship”.
So many dicators here? Monty Don, you are so ruthless!
I don’t have my own garden, but I cultivate cacti (the only plants that can stand my poor care. I have big specimens which blossom every year with magnificent big flowers). And my favourite time of the year is early spring when plants are in a state between decay and growth.
6 May 2016 at 08:53 #52158Gardening? Is there anything worse than gardening?
Well, yes, I suppose, washing up, making beds, housework generally – oh and cooking.I do like ironing though, do I pass? *grins*
Cheers,
Missy
6 May 2016 at 08:54 #52159@puroandson
Not at all. Get well soon.
Cheers,
Missy
6 May 2016 at 15:01 #52163What’s wrong with cooking, and kind of “some cleaning house” housework? Sometimes it’s even relaxing after whole day of tired life. 😀
6 May 2016 at 23:42 #52167@pharellman What’s wrong with cooking, and kind of “some cleaning house” housework? Sometimes it’s even relaxing after whole day of tired life.
It took me many decades to give in and admit that much as I hate washing the dishes, once I’ve actually driven myself to do it, it’s a very soothing, pleasant way to spend some time.
7 May 2016 at 01:31 #52170@pharellman I think most people on this site -those of us who commented most recently on gardening and general house work actually love it (or like it, anyway). 🙂
I don’t love the sweating and the weeding but I do love literally pouring water over my head from the hose or dunking my head in the larger of the two bird baths!
I also like the vegetation which actually flourishes -some of it doesn’t because, try as I might, I am no green thumb. I know that @mudlark loves gardening, is committed to it and probably has a tremendous garden. I am <green with envy> 🙂
Also, @mudlark how are you doing after the operation? Feeling any better at all? Our wishes go with you. Hugs and all too. <*\*>
Right now there are birds outside singing- an actual melody. Now I know the heat of Summer has passed and Autumn finally come.
Kindest
PuroSolo
7 May 2016 at 02:36 #52172Spring is here in Ontario and the tulips are blooming lovely. I am an avid gardener, growing a large portion of our veggies for the year and of course flowers. I can’t get enough of them. Bees , birds and flowers…oh my! Although weeding and watering are hard jobs the result is worth it for me. My bird houses are all occupied and the seeds are sprouting in the greenhouse.Soon both the birds and I will be very busy. In the morning I will put my 7 yr old grandaughter to work planting some beans and sunflowers (her faves) if she agrees to stop squealing whenever she sees a worm.
7 May 2016 at 05:22 #52174I wouldn’t say I love housework as such, but I mostly don’t mind it. I am free to let my imagination go off where it likes and I can still claim to have been productive during my day! And like Puro, I don’t love the “sweating and weeding”, but I do love watching things grow (when they do). Every year certain things are lovely and others are duds. Right now, my old fashioned “rambling” rose bush is covered in yellow flowers, and a certain violet clematis on my patio has more blooms on it than I have seen in a long time. The daffodils were gorgeous too, during their time. On the other hand, I don’t think my lettuce or peas are going to do much this year as it has already gotten too hot for them! We have had an amazingly warm and dry spring so far this year.
@puroandson I’m glad your autumn has finally come. Such a relief for you (and the birds, too, obviously!) I hope Son’s bronchitis is getting better?
@winston My mother has a big garden at her place in Alberta, and I have fond memories of my son as a little boy, pushing around a plastic wheelbarrow filled with straw, and helping her harvest peas and raspberries. At home, I would take him with me to the garden centre and be unable to refuse to buy him all the flowering plants that appealed to him, despite the challenge of where to put them (our yard is small). There is still one pot on the patio that is “his”, and I plant the same annuals every year that he liked to plant. He is always pleased to see them. Every child should have a chance to garden.
7 May 2016 at 06:49 #52178What’s wromg with it?
Take cooking for instance. One takes the time to cook a tasty meal and it’s gone in about ten minutes? so much for creativity.As for rest, it’s boooring! Definitely NOt relaxing or mentally stimulating.
If I can listen to a talking book (which I do a lot) whilst slaving away with the duster, broom, and cleaning liquid, I can bear it.Cheers,
Missy
7 May 2016 at 06:50 #52179 -
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