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@ardaraith i’m glad i’m not alone here in my hopes of keeping Smith on. I do hope it is some swicheroo (is that a word?) at the end of the “next” doctors tenure……. be that a series or a single episode.

But if it were to be a complete regeneration with no return i hope they do as good a job in casting as they did with Matt. An actor who i was rather dubious about until he opened his mouth, flicked his hair and went for it!! “GERONIMO”

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So many posts to read, and so little time. I already have several theories.

Is the Smith departure a coup?

How amazing, if the 50th and the episode in which he leaves are connected. So that he regenerates (maybe into Hurt Doctor) only for the Time Lords or some other clever SM timey wimey arc to re-write Hurt doctor and to take his regen away…….. and re-re-generate back into Smith?!

If however, i am the only person holding onto the smallest of hopes that Matt stays on, i do hope that the next regen is a male actor. I really don’t think that after 50yrs of established actors playing the role that a female doctor would work. I am in no way attempting to sound sexist, and apologize in advance if anybody takes it that way. I realize that the possibility that the doctor may regenerate into a female has already been written into the show, but i feel it would mark the end of the show.

I personally would love to see Russel Tovey take on the role.

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@bluesqueakpip

Am i right in thinking that Regenerations are a rule imposed by the Time Lords?

And as there are NO Time Lords, who is there to police the rule?

As such, does our Doctor know that he can regenerate forever, or until he doesn’t want to regenerate anymore, after all The Master chose not to regenerate. If that is the case then the writers can still write with an “end game” in mind. They simply choose which incarnation does not regenerate and write the explanation of why into there story arc.

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@Shazzbot  @ScaryBn If the Time Lords return, and indeed Gallifrey too. Then all of the things the Doctor mentions at the end of time…. The Nightmare child and all the other horrors of Gallifrey will return too. This gives great room for story telling, and Adversaries.

Just a note………… when Gallifrey falls in Teot It looks exactly like Trenzalore!

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@scaryb If the 50th changes anything about the time war (many of the people think that Hurt Doctor ended it somehow) then the Time Lords must be returning. the only way for the 50th to not return the Time Lords is for the Doctor to end it again. But surely that’s what cast Hurt Doctor out. Sooooooo

1. 50th is not about the Time War.

2. The Time Lords are returning.

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As much as i like the ideas of Clara, i’m sure that the impossible girl arc is complete. She was an ordinary girl who split in the Doctors time line. However……………..The question of who gave Clara the number is unanswered! It cannot have been River or Clara would have recognized her. So it could have been.

1. The Doctors Mother.

2. Amy.

3. Rose.

4. An Old aged Clara

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@Shazzbot

I like the thought of Clara being The Doctors Mother. She certainly has had a lot of mothering  incarnations. And if this were so, its an arc that’s been in the pipeline for a while.

With ref to the re-gens, and the Doctor approaching is final re-gens. When River gave up all her regenerations was that not a plot device to give the Doctor extra regenerations? Therefore Hurt Doctor may be a previous Outcast doctor without damaging the limited remaining re-gens to much, but he could also be the Valeyard, and still leave plenty of space before he becomes the final Doctor. But the course of the 50th may end the Valeyards existence and reboot a new path for the Doctors life. But if we end what Hurt doctor did, and IF that was something to do with the Time War……………….. Will the Time Lords be saved and become part of the show once more?

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If i may i would like to back up to 10th doctors farewell. In The end of time we saw the Time Lords return. However 2 of these (female Time Lords) did not agree with what was happening and had to cover there faces. 1 of these came to Wilfred on several occasions. Will we ever discover who this was? and if so is the 50th the place for this to be answered?

My own theory, and i’m sure many will have been discussed since the episode first aired, is that she is The Doctors Mother. As such, she would be a powerful character to bring in if she were to influence the decisions made by Hurt doctor.

Any thoughts?

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Just a thought to throw out there. It is of no great importance.

The God Complex…………… Room 11.

Was Hurt Doctor sitting in that room?!

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@Shazzbot I really hope i am right. I will be sooooo disappointed if we don’t get to learn the Doctors birth name. I appreciate that there are some people who don’t want to learn his name, so i suggest that they turn over for the last 5 minutes of the 50th 😉

I am going to plump for Chronos.

I am also convinced that we will see Number 9 in the 50th.

i am going to have to work on a whole dance number at this rate!

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@satsumajoe Petricor is the smell of the TARDIS engine i rekon

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@tournikate I have to disagree.

Once his real name became part of a story arc it HAS to be revealed, otherwise whats the point of the arc without the payoff?

10 never saying “I love you” was not an arc, just something he could never say because he loved Rose too much. If he had said it she would have stayed with him and he couldn’t bear that he may have led to the woman he loved dying. So off she went with Meta crisis 10. Now she lives with the man she loves and 10 let her go.

So im am fairly confident that the 50th will be where his name is revealed and it will all change (the game changer we have been promised by SM)

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@Shazzbot I think the chapter 11 ref was just a nod to the 11th doc will have you in tears.

im also scratching away at the significance of paintings…… whay are they significant?

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@craig Is there a forum where fans can discuss and vote for there  Episodes?

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@Shazzbot By definition all bonkers theories are bonkers so to take 1 seriously we have to seriously consider them all on the same plain. I really like he Jenny/Hurt Doctor therum!

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@Shazzbot as bonkers as that is…………… its a perfectly believable theory in the bonkers Whoniverse!! and i think not only are you the fore runner for the bonkers theory award but also…… most plausible, That is why the Doctor has kept it secret, because its his own child that caused such a terrible thing to happen. It would also mean that SM wont shorten the lifespan of the show by adding a regen, but the opposite….. extending it with a new stream of time lord lore!

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@Shazbott @whisht   He did say there may be a way back……..so of COURSE there was a way back, which can only mean he is still out there!

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@Shazzbot –

i’m still wondering if every episode this half-series has Clara Prime in it, or perhaps a Fragmented Clara in one or two.

They have already done this with Amy when she was flesh for half a series. so i hope they are not re-using an old idea!

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First off can we all agree that Matt Smith is brilliant!

1st point….. Clarence/Clara bit similar.

2nd point why was the GI trying to upload the world to wifi in the bells of st john? and here he is trying to break into the Doctors tomb!

3rd. might have been mentioned but in TbesJ what is the significance of Amy pond having written the book??

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i am now re-watching (for about the 6th time) The name of the Doctor.

i’m sure i will have some new theories as soon as its finished. 🙂

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@satsumajoe I prefer just taking bonkers theories anyway 😉

So long to wait before we find out what SM has in store for us it may just make my head explode like 1,2,3,4? TARDIS,TARDISIES, TARDII! (im going with 1 singular TARDIS)

Night all.

 

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@whisht @craig I hate spoilers and try to avoid them at all costs but have never counted trailers or “Next time” bits as such…………. until i came on here and made the mistake of mentioning a trailer…Argh. as such i am now just about the bonkers speculation in here. and lets face it, looking through this thread, there is some bonkers stuff going on 🙂

Baths overflowing with fishes!

1. Will we find out the Doctors real name?

2. Where does Hurt doc fit in?

3. What will the theme of the 50th be?

your thoughts please

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@satsumajoe they are shape shifting power mad aliens from the 4th doctor.

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@craig  Zygons??????????????  SPOILERS!!!!!!! THANKS FOR THAT!

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@bluesqueakpip

 There are only twelve incarnations. We see only twelve incarnations. If the Hurt Doctor is his future, he doesn’t get past Hurt. If the Hurt Doctor was the Time War Doctor (implied by the Doctor’s referring to him in the past tense), the Doctor never gets past the Smith Doctor.

12 regeneration’s … That’s 13 incarnations of The Doctor. so there are 2 more actors. either Hurt plus 1. or two more post Smith if Hurt is erased or not the Doctor or whatever.

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@Shazzbot –

Well, that is one theory I’m pretty sure you’re the only one to posit; so if you are right, you are welcome to dance around the room saying ‘I knew it!  I knew it!’  

i have cut and pasted that in readiness! 🙂

In the original series The Masters name is mentioned in The five Doctors. We have also more recently seen Rassilon. So i’m sure as eggs is eggs That the Doctors Name will be revealed.

I am practicing my Victory dance as i type! 😉

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I will hold on to my Theory that Hurt Doctor is in fact the Original Time Lord to take on the title of “The Doctor” and whatever he did, all be it in the name of peace and sanity wasn’t befitting of the title. As a result Hartnell Doctor stole his identity. This is the secret that will be unveiled when his name is heard. Because it is this that will threaten to undo all our Doctor has done and the Hurt Doctor will then be reveiled as The true Doctor. Our Docotr needs to now erase Hurt Doctor from the timeline. This is the a game changer such as the one er were promised.

Hurt Doctor does nothing to change the game other than loose 1 regeneration (shortening the life of the show) or if he is the next Doctor, introduce him. Neither of which “Changes everything” as SM has promised.

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@bluesqueakpip not so sure about that one. Only because every Clara we have seen has been played by Jenna louise Coleman and never anybody else. Iv also heard that she may be River Song and even CAL…………. Again different actress’ and different names. Clara has always been Clara.

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@bluesqueakpip

If everything inside the Doctor’s time stream is actually THE Doctor, how do you explain Clara’s leaf  flying around?

Or if everything is the Doctor, how do you explain CLARA? or have i missed a bonkers theory that Clara is the Doctor too?

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@Shazzbot @Bluesqueakpip-If the Doctors name isn’t the point then why do the silence not want the question to be answered?

What terrible thing has been unleashed upon the universe by opening his tomb?

answer………………………..Nothing. Yes we have seen Hurt Doctor, but that is in his time line.

I genuinely feel that the “Question” hasn’t been asked yet. I also think we are yet to see the fall of the 11th.

I am confident that the 50th will be set at Tensalor. It will be here that the question will be asked when no living thing can fail to answer and his true name will unveil some dark secret….. Darker than Hurt Doctor, this will be the fall of the 11th. I see it more as a “Fall from grace” rather than a death. It is only when his name is spoken and The Doctor confronts who he is and what he has done will the arc be complete.

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@bluesqueakpip -If that’s the case then it is a disappointing end. We already learned in A good man goes to war that his name means Mighty Warrior to the people of the Gamma Forests  and Wise man and Healer to us. So why create a story arc that has already been explained in one speech in a previous series?

The doctor lies…………………………His name IS important and yet to be heard.

 

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@scaryb

Re ideas being dragged out – the Dr’s identity has been a secret for 50 years! (or over 1000 (Gallifreyan) years, depending how you look at it). They can manage a few more 

Haha. However, when you introduce an idea as an actual story arc it becomes tiresome when it is dragged out.

As such, my initial reaction the the end of the current series was not a good one!  but after sitting down, and calming down, and taking back all the thoughts and misgivings i was having about SM i liked the Hurt Doctor reveal.

But back to arcs. The River Song arc took a little to long for my liking if i’m honest. So i would hate the whole Doctor Who? arc to become lost in its own wibbly wobbly timey wimey convoluted arc! It would be a real shame if it just became a story that was dragged on for the sake of teasing viewers. Is it not better to tease the viewer a little, maybe a series and a bit then resolve the arc and take the show in a new direction with newly discovered information about the universe? keeping it fresh and keeping the ideas coming.

Is that not more fun? That way we are continually growing with the doctor, discovering things together, and looking forward to the next mystery to come our way.

 

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@scaryb When i bought forward the idea of doctor telling Clara that he had been to the RoA before with his granddaughter, and mentioned that they called there god “Grandfather” it was pointed out by several others that i was the first to point that out.

ah well, its not about the source, its about the theories that it spawns.

I’m sure that we will Find out the Doctors real name under SM.  I don’t think it works when ideas are dragged out unnecessarily, and im sure SM has his conclusion ready.

Time will tell!

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@bluesqueakpip
I think the symbolism of Matt Smith’s Doctor continually making self-referential jokes about ‘Eleven’ is that he’s wiped the Hurt Doctor out of the continuity. The Hurt Doctor doesn’t count as ‘The Doctor’. He’s not worthy of the name. I am the Eleventh incarnation to live up to that name. I am the Eleventh Doctor.
He’s lying to himself. On screen, and in plain sight. All the time.

I LIKE THAT IDEA!

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@Shazzbot with reference your god comparisons…..( i think i may have been the first on her to draw the comparison) lets not leave out he and Donna being imortalised as gods, a whole episode “The God Complex” or better yet the Face of Boe’s legend. That he will impart his last secret to……”…The lonely God…..”

i think there is far to many references to The Doctor being a god or being made into a god or perceived as a god for there not to be some pay off eventually with these links.

I think that is what we will learn when we find out his true name.

It will bring about war because it will prove the existence of a new belief in gods and there origins…. Hence why the Silence (a religious order) want to keep it from being spoken.

 

discuss 🙂

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@janisthorns 2 possible options.

1. The whispermen were going to kill all of the Doctors friends, therefore he could not speak falsely or fail to answer.

2. (and my preference) That the question (Doctor Who?) will be asked on the fields of Trensalor in the 50th anniversary. It will be there that we learn the doctors real name, and that the person who is asking will learn of the Hurt Doctor.

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Oh yeah! i thought i missed her name on an ACTUAL leaf! Doh!

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@misspawsintime @brotherjohn @ardaraith.

 

on what leaf is Rivers name?????

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Anybody have any thoughts on Hurt Doctor maybe being the Valeyard and trying to take all of the Doctors regens from his time line to become some sort of uber Time Lord?!

not sure if i like it or not.

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@satsumajoe Iv just discovered its a fan made trailer. so spoiler averted. I try my best to avoid all Who related info for as long as i can but kind of take trailers and “next time” bits as a given. But im all about the speculation from here on out 😉

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In The fires of Pompeii Donna and The Doctor are imortalised as gods.

In The Rings of Akhaten The god is called Grandfather (Just as the Doctor was when he went there with Susan).

In The Big Bang The Doctor restarted the Universe.

In Greek Mythology Chronos is the Personification of time.

Could the Doctor be a Gallifrayan Time Lord who has been given God like stature by various cultures and therefore his name could well be Chronos.

 

 

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Shazbott

 

my apologies to all.

I shall stick to speculation 🙂

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Satsuma Joe.

my appologies….. there are no spoilers, just the Dorium speech again. its not a spoiler, its already cannon.

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Charlie Cook @shazzbot and where did it go?

im not sure that holds much water.

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Shazzbot i don’t think that The silence are forgotten at all!!

in fact if you are to watch the 50th anniversary trailer on BBC it is very heavy in The Silence.

in fact i don’t think we have seen the moment that Dorium was referring to yet.

I am sure that the 50th will take place at the fields of Trenzelor at the fall of the 11th, and not as most are theorizing in the Time War.

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@Charlie Cook and Shazzbot

what about the moment in TroA when the Doctor says ” ive been here before, years ago with my granddaughter” add to that the fact that they refer to there “god” as ‘Grandfather’ and do we have The Doctor as some early template for there god?

 

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JimTheFish

My only problem there is that we were promised a “game changer” and i don’t feel that “hey we missed a regeneration and kept it a secret” or “here’s the next Doctor”  really changes much. In fact the former will only serve to shorten the life of the show by moving the Doctor along 1 regen!

 

i do however think that if we were told “Hey, you know that guy you have been watching for 50yrs, well he is an impostor, here is the darker, war weary Doctor” that would change the game!   🙂

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“He is me. I didn’t say he was The Doctor”    for me, that is more mysterious a line.

 

Maybe when Hartnell stole the title of “The Doctor” Hurt Doctor had to take on Hartnells name.

soooooo,  “he is me” would imply he has his actual name. “i didn’t say he was The Doctor” implying Smith now carries the title.

from a writing point of view it gives S.Moffatt a whole new set of regeneration’s to play with for future series’.

He simply needs the last doctor to go to him, and ask him to follow in the example set by his predecessors and finally become The Doctor!

that there is my Bathful of fishes.

 

 

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I have a theory that nobody seems to have considered yet.

What if Hurt doctor and Smith doctor are 2 separate Time Lords?!

What if Hurt doctor took the title “The Doctor” and did something so terrible that it was not befitting of the title, and so Hartnell doctor stole his identity, so that whatever he had done was “not in the name of the Doctor”. That is why he is running, that is his secret.

That would explain why his name is so secret, because he isn’t the Time Lord that took on the title, therefore he ISN’T The true Doctor!

feel free to discuss!

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Soooooooo alot of people enjoying John Hurt as the Doctor.

i have a theory………. What if John Hurt IS The Doctor but did something so terrible that William harnells Time Lord felt he didnt deserve the title anymore and stole his identity (and him) He then Became The Doctor.

This would mean not only have we been watching an impostor to the title all these years but it opens up another 11 regens when Matt Smith bows out. Maybe he could go to Hurt in his last moments and ask him to continue the example he has set as The Doctor.

any thoughts?

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