[Islek @replies]

After reading through these posts I have formed my own bonkers theory (based off of many of your theories)!

I think John Hurt’s doctor has to be an incarnation after Eleven. We are told that in the doctor’s time stream into which Clara jumps they will be all of the doctor’s past and future days (and incarnations, presumably). She says she’s seen his eleven faces, the same ones we have seen, which makes me believe that, in some way, Matt Smith’s Dr will die there at Trenzalore, because she hasn’t seen any incarnations passed him and they should be there if they exist. I at least believe this will factor in to the 50th somehow, maybe as a misdirect, and then Moffat will reverse or bypass it (no theories on how, though) so that the doctor regenerates and the show carries on. (I think it would be cool if he surprised us with a regeneration in the 50th instead of the Christmas special.)

Back to the Hurt Dr: I think the reason he’s corporeal and not a memory in the time stream is because he isn’t part of the time stream– I think he the future incarnation of the Doctor that the Doctor fears becoming but knows he will become. But I think that there is a choice: Smith’s Dr can become this man (the valeyard?) or he can die at trenzalor, and the reason the Hurt Dr is sort of just hanging out hiding in the doctor’s time stream and not getting on with things is that Matt Smith’s doctor hasn’t made the choice yet, so the Hurt Dr exists but is sort of hindered by the fact that he is only a possible future? The doctor can die at eleven and his grave will be the time stream they see, or he can live on and become the Hurt Dr, who is beyond the scope of the time stream they entered and that is why he’s not a memory in it that Clara can see. He’s just sort of lurking around it waiting to see if he’s going to happen. (I dunno, that may have gotten away from me a bit).

And I agree that the 50th is going to deal with the Time War, possibly (hopefully?) to lay it to rest, because, as much as I enjoy it, they can’t play up the lonely god thing forever. (I am an AG fan though, so it does hold more weight for me than the BG mysteries.) I agree with whomever (sorry!) said that the Doctor’s guilt is from in some way starting the time war, or some other act during it, and not ending it (because we all do know about that, and have spent time imagining it. I feel like Moffat will want to keep us on our toes).  I believe that Doctors Eight/Nine fought in the Time War but that it is the Hurt Dr who did the horrible thing that traumatizes Doctor Nine. Doctor Nine knows that he is (will be) the one who commits a terrible act because he’s seen himself do it, and he gets PTSD from the future instead of the past, which, to me, seems like it could be an interesting side effect of time travel. The Doctor isn’t really supposed to know about his future selves and actions, but it would be hard for him to avoid that information entirely: the rest of the universe doesn’t encounter him in the order of his own timeline, so when the silence or whomever talks about the things he’s done it could easily be future things he’s done. I mean, even with the precautions he and River take, she knows about future him and lets a lot slip. To me it makes sense that he has found out that his future self did/has done something terrible in the Time War and the guilt has trickled back from that (although it puts a weird spin on Ten’s brushes with megalomania). I do think that Smith’s doctor might try to refuse to regenerate, because of this.

Also, a wish and not a theory, but I think I’m in the minority: I want David Tennant to be playing his meta-crisis human Doctor. I can’t imagine why Rose would be included if they are just teaming up with past incarnations within the Doctor’s time stream (why Rose as opposed to Martha, Donna, or Wilfred), and I want to see how Rose and MCDT are getting on. It seems too limiting for them to put a past doctor together with the current one because then we’ll have to fit whatever happens to the past doctor into our idea of that doctor’s run, or he’ll have to forget or something (too much like a reset button). There are more possibilities with Rose and MCDT because they have an open future, and the emotional stakes are higher because they’re both human and can both easily die.

 

Hey, that was fun! Also exhausting.

[Islek @replies]

I am excited about an older doctor too.

I am new to this forum (and forums, generally) and have only seen AG Who.

Eccleston was my first doctor and I love him and almost everything about season 1. He is an angry and wounded person who has trouble with lightheartedness (he does play it really awkwardly). He is a dark doctor but I think Tennant is both sillier AND darker.

The 9th doctor is guarded and snarky and a little bit rude, and slowly he grows more attached to Rose, and by the end of the season he refuses to kill the daleks and the earth, and sacrifices himself for Rose without very many qualms. Then Ten appears and seems like he’s recovered quite a lot: he seems happier and more fun. He’s constantly exclaiming about how wonderful humanity is (whereas Nine just made fun of humanity), probably because of Rose. He seems to be at the stage of grief where, because he feels better, he thinks he is better. He and Rose are kind of annoying together in season two because they’re so silly they’re a little bit oblivious and it seems like he’s overcompensating. And when he is retraumatized by losing Rose he gets really dark really fast at the end of “The Runaway Bride,”  doing basically what he refused to do at the end of “The Parting of the Ways,” and what he diposes Harriet Jones for doing at the end of “The Christmas Invasion.” Then the rest of his run plays out like that: he tries so hard to do things right and to help, and he keeps messing up and losing the people he loves. He’s very vocal about his principles but by “The Waters of Mars” he throws them all out because he’s gotten so desparate and he’s so wounded still. And that doesn’t work for him either. And then he dies.

This is an article that describes it well: http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/doctor-who/21084/doctor-who-a-celebration-of-david-tennant

Matt Smith’s doctor, compared to Tennant’s doctor and Davies’ super tragic arc, does seem older, wiser and calmer to me. He’s hurt but carries it better, he’s eccentric but doesn’t seem awkward with it (like Eccleston), or bombastic and manic (like Tennant). He also does some morally ambigious things (leaving older Amy behind in “The Girl Who Waited,” leaving Solomon to die in “Dinasaurs on a Spaceship,” but he seems to have accepted this as part of his character and so he doesn’t talk about how non-violent he is like Tennant does and therefore seems less hypocritical. He knows himself a little better. Thoughts?

Also, if it wasn’t clear (it might not have been) Tennant is my favorite doctor.

Also, does anyone want to discuss “Midnight” in detail? I just rewatched it and love it!

[Author]

Posts