The Dæmons part 4

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Bluesqueakpip 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #39427
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Apologies for this being a week late all. Shades of The Wicker Man this week…

    The Master has raised Azal again and this time the Dæmon is huge.

    The Master wants the Dæmon’s knowledge but Azal wants to speak to The Doctor to see if he is worthy to take over the world. Azal says that on his third appearance he may possibly destroy the planet. He then disappears again in another heat wave.

    Jo rushes to the cavern and Captain Yates goes after her.

    After a “Reverse the polarity!”, Yay, the Doctor races back to the village but the Master’s agents are after him.

    Can they stop the Master raising Azal for the third time?

    #39440
    Anonymous @

    Why is there never a quick getaway ladder when I most need one? Jo certainly can manage  – evidently the sedation has worn off!

    Thanks Craig, I must watch this tomorrow but I heard “reverse the polarity” so I’m mighty satisfied for now.

    #39445
    Anonymous @

    “you’re nattering on about tea” (“I hit him with my reticule!”)

    “you’re an idiot, Jo”

    “shuttup you silly old fool. You half witted mare”. At least I think it was ‘mare’.

    Goodness, the women are getting short shrift! Having said the Doctor is acerbic and…rude… Still, I can’t help but like him. Would anyone know if it is Pertwee riding the motorcycle? It looks mostly like it is him except for when he’s ‘shot’ off the bike at the end of a scene….

    Delgado is wonderful: cold and precise, suitably suspicious and scared of the evil he’s conjured….Arched eyebrows, wide deep brow and a resonant, cruel voice.

    Yay, for Osgood who looks confused but brainy….meanwhile Jo is scared but hoofing it out the window anyway and the local Wicca is sharply told “would you please stay here and do as you are told”. We’re hearing that a lot in the current series of Who.

    And evil Morris dancers!! We’ve quite a few local ‘chapters’ of Morris dancers here in Brisbane and at the Gold Coast. Not my thing particularly, but it’s good to see it in Who.

    In this ep, by the end, the Doctor is suitably grateful for his rescue at the hands of the crazy Morris witch burners and managed to smile and say a few kind, dry, witty phrases. Jo is terrified for the sacrificial cat (I think it is) and interferes with the Master’s plans… Good old Jo, brave and kind, like all the companions (I like the voice of Azaal: totally captivating and ‘actorrr’ terrifying. I remember hiding behind the sofa when I heard his voice late in the afternoon with my daily treat consisting of a miniature packet of smarties).

    I remember Rose in the second ep with the Tennant Doctor and how he knew that Rose wasn’t in her body as her compassion had vanished -something alien had to be possessing Rose. I think all the companions are chosen in part for their kindness and understanding: I recall Donna feeling terribly sad when she heard the captive empathic oods singing on the planet of slavery. It seems even she’s less abrasive with time as if the terrible-and wonderful -universe has an impact on all the companions in some small way. What a pity that Donna lost much of that understanding in order for her mind to be protected. How ironic.

    I fear now for Clara -and despite the positive beginning of her travels with the Doctor at the end of the Christmas episode I wonder how Orson, his soldier talisman and the statement, “travelling was in my grandparent’s history” (Listen) will eventually be explained or played out…..or if it even will….

    #39450
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @purofilion this Doctor is acerbic and rude and arrogant, but I also like him. I think there is a touch of nostalgia there for me – I remember watching re-runs in the 70’s and last year I went to The Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff and saw ‘Bessy’ on display there.

    Jo has been criticized, many of the representations of women at this time on T.V. were, generally, not necessarily a model I would like to see followed now. But, I think she is brave and up to the challenge – if a tad too ‘rescued’ for my taste. I also remember an interview I saw with Carole Ann Ford (who played the Doctor’s granddaughter, as I’m sure you all know … sorry) where she says (ad-libbing here) that she had to scream and run away from the ‘baddies’, whilst the modern versions of the companion get to run towards the scary danger. I did like her reprisal of her role in ‘The Sarah Jane Adventures’ (not all episodes of which I have watched … sorry, it’s on the list).

    Another Osgood, whom I also like (still missing the other one), and ‘reverse the polarity’, which, as far as I can recall, hasn’t let us down thus far (please let me know if I’m wrong.)

    @purofilion  do you mean Rose in the second episode with Doctor 9 and Cassandra  ‘The End of the World’ ? (If not, sorry)

     

    #39452
    Anonymous @

    @papermoon

    yep, I’m aware of the representations by women of women! 🙂 Is that it?

    And I recall the Carol Ann Ford interview -great stuff! It was Rose with Tennant on New Earth. The Cat People.  Grr.

    #39466
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    I’ve been watching but finding it actually quite hard to come up with anything new to say, it’s so familiar now.

    But can I just say that Jo is one of my all-time favourite companions and that I think this is one of her best stories. I get the ‘not exactly emancipated’ line but there’s a strength of character to Jo and a determination that it’s easy to overlook. Plus, she’s a babe.

    Have to disagree with @bluesqueakpip though. I’ve always hated the ep3 cliffhanger. Oh noes, is this the end for the Master, or will evil eventually triumph? Oh, and @purofilion, morris dancers are always evil. Always.

    Having said that, I think the real charm of this episode and the reason it’s remembered so vividly is that the actual plot is so slight that it gives us the chance to get to know the characters. It’s not accident that a lot of what’s so fondly remembered about the Brigadier comes from this story. Similarly we get to see Benton and Yates forming a friendship of sorts. And much of the Doctor’s time is spent having to actually interact with the natives — to varying degrees of success. True, he does come across as a charmless, pompous walloper — and I actually think that both Dicks and Barry Letts in their novelisations managed to project more charm into the character than Pertwee manages to convey on screen.

    But it’s quite usef;ul to rewatch Pertwee here. Because it really serves to highlight where Capaldi is going with the character. If Smith was riffing on Troughton, it’s clear that Capaldi is definitely basing part of his Doctor on this Daemons-era Doc.

    #39467
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @purofilion yes, it is. It’s interesting that the new wave of feminism was happening at this time, but it still took time for things to filter through to popular culture, as is the way.

    Oh, ok, same Cassandra, different episode.

    @jimthefish I agree about Jo. Pertwee’s Doctor has such a strong personality that he can be quite a presence in a room (the clothes help, but don’t necessarily reflect his personality), but Jo has plenty pluck of her own.

    #39471
    Anonymous @

    @papermoon

    “pluck” Oh dear. That reminds me of S1 West Wing with Josh saying to Mandy “I admire your pluck” and her response “I’m sorry, which part of me do you admire?”

    A thought.

    #39477
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @purofilion sorry if I offended you, I haven’t watched West Wing, so I’m afraid I can’t comment on it. I simply meant that I think Jo is able to hold her own with this Doctor. He may tell her to go and make the tea, and yes she does, but I think she deals well with what life as a companion to the Doctor brings her.

    Although I am a native speaker, I haven’t lived in a country in which English is the native language for some time, how did ‘pluck’ become offensive?

    #39478
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @papermoon

    how did ‘pluck’ become offensive

    I think when it started to be used in a way that suggests the person concerned isn’t terribly bright. Or, indeed, competent. But they go forth and have a go anyway…. which fits Jo beautifully, in fact. Jo is the Doctor’s plucky young assistant. She’s sort of a female equivalent of Jamie; not over-bright but with tons of courage and determination.

    And now I’m thinking of the Tennant Doctor describing Donna as ‘the plucky young girl who helps me out’, and her ‘Oy!’ back. 🙂

    #39479
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip @papermoon

    yes, Blue has described its use perfectly -for me, the word evoked a ‘feeling’ and then I heard it used in upscale telly like The West Wing (plunge in, you’ll love it -it’s political drama) whereupon I could see it had that pejorative usage  we see with Donna.

    And is there really anything wrong with it? Yes. No. Hard to say.

    Certainly you’re right, Jo is courageous, brave and not that screamy. She’s a great opposite for the sciency and rather hard Doctor.

    #39506
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @Bluesquekpip @purofilion Ah, I understand what you’re saying. For me, I tend to think of it as a little old-fashioned, if someone told me I was plucky I’d probably find it amusing.

    I know that West Wing has won a number of awards, I might give it a try.

    #39508
    Anonymous @

    @papermoon Even though English is my native English I found that it was hard to hear everything without subtitles in The West Wing. On its own it can be difficult as the characters talk very quickly. It’s quirky, funny, confrontational and poignant. But a drama, definitely.

    Yes, plucky as a term has probably changed over the years. It’s probably OK. If a teacher had labelled me ‘plucky’ in the 80s I probably would have felt thrilled! And he would have meant it in the way it was supposed to mean back then: brave, quick, having initiative and sticking to your guns (another weird expression!). Certainly Jo is plucky in all the good ways: she’s definitely got courage in spades: having a go at the Magister whilst he’s about to sacrifice the cat is very brave -and she screams and carries on a lot less than normal but I fully understand that that was the expectation for the companion back then. Everything’s changed now with Clara ‘being the doctor’ in Flatline and being ‘very very good’ at it. Also, she cares “so I don’t have to” says the Capaldi Doctor. I think Pertwee and Capaldi are quite similar -but the warmth in the latter outweighs the former.

    #39509
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @purofilion I do find how language changes over time rather interesting, I did literature and linguistics at uni which helped to found this interest.

    the role of the companions these days is very different from the past, but I think the BG companions deserve credit. I agree that Capaldi’s Doctor is similar Pertwee’s, but I also think there’s a few of the other BG Doctor’s in him. I also see bits of Tom Baker’s Doctor and McCoy’s too.

    #39513
    Anonymous @

    @papermoon linguistics is fascinating isn’t it? One can get lost for hours in the search for hidden meanings and semantics as well as the new ways of interpreting literature -always very controversial. Yes, I can see Pertwee in Capaldi’s Doctor but then the latter has a warmth I didn’t always notice in the aristocratic and superior Pertwee!  Tom Baker’s mischievous nature is definitely there but I never watched much McCoy so I can’t comment, though I think others see a definite comparison with our current man

    #39557
    PaperMoon @papermoon

    @purofilion it is a very interesting subject, not just semantics but also other areas within the field. When I studied it at uni, we didn’t really apply it to works of literature per se, it was more about the development and use of the language both in the past and also currently. I agree that Pertwee’s and Capaldi’s Doctor also differ in terms of how they express their emotions. It will be interesting to see of we get any Venusian aikido, lol.

    #39558
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @purofilion – it is definitely Pertwee riding the bike – he was apparently keen on any type of vehicle and would go for motorbike rides round the countryside when they were waiting for the crew to set up. Unbelievably, given that no-one now would dream of letting their leading man do such a dangerous stunt, he does take the tumble off the bike.

    Katy Manning also threw herself out of the car in Ep. 3.

    I think it’s a sacrificial chicken. Grown up me invariably spots that Azal’s tights are a bit wrinkly (according to the commentary, the hooves were also a nightmare to walk in). But yeah, small me was behind the door in the hallway, never mind the sofa.

    One of my favourite bits in The Day of The Doctor was when ‘we’re both reversing the polarity’ turned into: ‘We’re confusing the polarity.’

    @jimthefish

    I think that even though the plot is slight, this story is noticeably free of padding. People may be racing around in circles, but they have a reason to do it. They don’t just get captured, they get captured because the Master wants them captured, or because they foolishly try and rescue a chicken, or they’re zooming to the heat shield because Osgood can’t manage Nobel-winning physics and needs detailed instructions.

    The handily placed ladder is, however, a bit embarrassing. Apparently that was because Katy Manning took one look at the height of the roof (with her glasses on) and said ‘you are joking‘. Sensible girl. 😉

    #39610
    janetteB @janetteb

    Finally caught up with this episode. I thought it well paced, with notes of Monty Python and Children of the Stones both of which came later of course.

    After all my speculation regarding Osgood’s name it is rather humbling to find out that she is simply the offspring or relative of a former UNIT scientist. She even inherited the glasses. I was clearly deficient in Who lore, something that Moffat can very definitely not be accused of.

    Jo and Yates take Dr Who hide skill to a whole new level, though maybe they were obscured by the lighting.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #39614
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @janetteb
    There were several jokes on the commentary about Jo and Mike’s amazing hiding skills, with Katy Manning especially saying how beautifully lit she was. 😉

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