The Giggle

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

@ps1l0v3y0u I agree bringing Tenents 10 back as 14 was I think a situation extingency Jodie had left the show and I believe Ncuti was not available for the filming of the most of the 60th specials. Given that a showrunner handover was going to occur  they could possibly have tried to persuade Jodie to have hung on for the specials and then they could have bought back tenant as 10 in a multi doc  capacity much like the 50th anaversary episode.However that would have changed the whole dynamic of the regeneration to Ncuti IMO.as to the fututive Docs  using a Police Box Tardis we know from the Timeless Child narrative the Division hadn’t been beyond manipulating the Doctors memories, so perhaps HartnellDoc  recollection of how the Tardis became stuck in its Police Box persona is a false memory and is why a Fugitive Docs use of the police box disguise happened. Just going back to using Tenant as 14 it was hinted that timelords will reuse a regeneration look back in the 50th anniversary with Tom Bakers appearance as the CuratorDoc and his comment that occasionally a favourite face will reoccur.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@devilishrobby

I believe, but don’t quote me, that whitdoc wouldn’t boogie for anyone but Zchib. So that scenario would seem to be a non-starter. Yes! Gatwa was a busy boy last year, and they had to get the 60th anniversary thing in the can.
But think what you could do with 2 Doctors! Apart from bum around Seville shiving restauranteurs and perving up Peri. 14 can’t simply be watching the racing in the hostelries of Chiswick.

10/14 could be the darkest doctor. Good Queen Bess will attest to that! Bring it on!

And what do we actually know about The Division? They’ve been there as long as the Timelords. So they could be there in earlier Who, getting up all sorts of nefarious stuff couldn’t they? But they couldn’t wipe everybody’s brain all the time, which is how come The Universe had to go.
Actually, no has been prepared to straight-jacket me and stick me in front of TTC + T’Floox yet, so I shouldn’t really comment.

re the Ruth’s policebox tardis… was the impossible girl directing 1 & Susan to the right Death Star elevator yet another bit of Division flim flam? In Zchib’s dreams maybe.

And wherefore REG? And what exactly is the Vlinx??

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

Just re-watched The Giggle. I notice I didn’t post anything on first watching, and this is because – as an episode – it was neither remarkably good nor awful (as far as I was concerned). The plot was well acted, with great CGI sets, but it seemed a pretty run-of-the-mill action episode otherwise – it just didn’t grab me. (Btw, I never saw the Toymaker in previous series).

It was a nice if slightly cloying happy-families send-off for Fourteen with Donna’s family – but how long was that going to last, since he hasn’t actually regenerated does that mean he’s now immortal? And there are TWO doctors at the same time in the same universe (the previous 10a was of course off with Rose(1) in a separate universe). Though multi Doctors is not a new thing so I suppose that’s OK.

I was disappointed to see so little of Rose(2), when she was introduced with a fanfare in The Star Beast. I would have liked to see her in Wild Blue Yonder (yes that was strictly a two-person ep, so it would have had to leave out Donna. It would have worked exactly as well. I’m not indulging in Donna-hatred here, I’ve got over that, but we’ve seen Donna in – what – ten episodes and Rose(2) only in one, plus a tiny cameo here.

The Vlinx – where did that come from? Is this some character from OldWho or from the comics or radio (which I know nothing about)? [Paranoia mode ON:] Is this due to some Disney requirement to have at least one alien monster in every episode? [/Paranoia] I’d better stop now, there are too many stupid rumours swilling around the Internet already. The reference to ‘social media’ Internet distortions and misrepresentations was painful but apposite, it’s only got worse over the last couple of years (and that’s as political as I’m going to get).

Doctor 15 – I like him on first acquaintance, he has an infectious personality. But why doesn’t he have any trousers?

I do like it that the Tardis didn’t feel it necessary do destroy its interior this time around. Does it only do that if a Doctor regenerates inside it? (Besides, with what the new set must have cost, it was never going to redecorate this early).

On the whole, this three-episode ‘series’ had two decent episodes and one (IMO) outstanding one – Wild Blue Yonder, so a step up from recent years. Be interesting (for me) to see where the next season goes (I’ve got the DVD set on order) – you all know how it went by now, I guess.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

I assume Rose 2 will eventually be given her own arc.

The Meep was launched from a cartoon. That was fun. And cartoony!

I think everyone assumed The V’linx was from the same place. I asked the question at the time and I got no answer.

The V’linx would seem to be a neologism; either it sprang fully formed Rusty’s Mighty Brain, or you need to knock the letters together.

It’s product of technology… Vinvocci? Cyber? Dalek? Gallifreyan?

V

Link

A link to someone called V… something… presumably not lizards…

ah! Vinvocci??  No, they could never compete with the NHS… not even if Trump got back in.

It’s on the tip of my tongue…

Something… associated with the letter V…

Someone to do with The Doctor…

Or Kate, Mel… Victoria…

Obviously nothing at all to do with REG.

I give up.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u You may well be right about Rose (2). I had assumed that the final scene with 14 and the Noble family was a farewell, effectively losing track of him, the same way 10a was ‘lost’ with Rose(1) in another universe. But of course in Dr Who this is not a foregone conclusion, as we saw in these three episodes (and the preceding one), old characters come back all the time.
So that was a reckless assumption on my part.

I’ll soon find out, I’ve got the next season on order.

As for the Vlinx, it seems (from comments made in some of the DVD ‘extras’) that it is an all-new creature. Whether it will be linked back to some previous creature – we shall see.

The Vinvocci were fun. Much helped by Sinead whatever-her-name-is (Keenan, I googled) ‘s air of exasperated frustration. Wouldn’t mind seeing them back

[nerys @nerys]

“The Giggle” was a satisfying, if, for me, an overly drawn-out, conclusion to this three-parter. It was wonderful to see Wilf again at the beginning, as well as Kate Lethbridge-Stewart later on.

Did anyone else see a startling resemblance between Neil Patrick Harris’ Celestial Toymaker and Matt Smith’s Doctor? Occasionally I had to do a double-take to remind myself of which character I was watching.

The beginning of the episode, with the puppets and Doctor and Donna lost in the corridors, was genuinely creepy. It’s the first time in quite some time that I’ve felt that in a Doctor Who episode.

For me, the highlight of this concluding episode was that the Doctor got both of his wishes. The meta-crisis Doctor ended up with Rose and her family, and this Doctor ended up with Donna and her family. Best of both worlds … literally.

The bi-generation was a rather interesting way of setting up the new Doctor. But somehow that part felt very drawn-out to me. It was a different way of introducing the new Doctor, I will give them that. And I certainly liked Ncuti Gatwa. I will look forward to seeing more of him! But I guess I’m used to regenerations being fleeting events, so it was hard to wrap my head around those extended scenes of the two Doctors together.

Ah, such reverberations with what’s happening now. If only there were a solution like eradicating a giggle to make the world sane again.

[winston @winston]

@nerys  I just watched these a little while ago and I enjoyed them all. I love the Doctor and Donna combo and I was thrilled to see them together again along with Donna’s family and Unit. Donna gets her memories back and the Doctor gets his friend.

The bi-generation was certainly different and I am still fuzzy about how that works but whatever. It is just a timey-wimey thing! The 15th Doctor is great.

So much happened in these specials that they need a few watches to catch it all but the ending was worth it. The 14th Doctor is settled with a family of his own and a working Tardis, who can ask for more.

These episodes were pure escapism and we can really use that these days.

stay sane

[nerys @nerys]

@winston That’s true about the working Tardis! Though No. 14 didn’t seems so inclined to use it, did he? Still, as others have noted, the 14th Doctor is on call if needed.

There was an echo of the Whittaker Doctor in the need to search for and create a family with his companions (though I don’t think that story was told particularly well in the Chibnall era). But here it was more convincing, that, by having a family of his own, the Doctor could heal from past traumas inflicted on him.

It was fascinating to see the Celestial Toymaker’s attempts to taunt the Doctor, in front of Donna, with the marionettes of past companions and how their time with the Doctor came to an end. And yet, as much as the Toymaker tried to undermine the Doctor’s rebuttals (“Well, that’s alright, then!”), we know that what the Doctor says is true. All is not lost.

As you say, pure escapism … very much needed these days. Now I must wait for the 15th Doctor episodes to land in my library!

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Just popping back in from an extended bout of real life to say that Mrs Blenkinsop and I just re-watched (over two nights) “Wild Blue Yonder” and “The Giggle”. Of the two, we both thought “The Giggle” was the better of the two. (I realize not everyone would agree.)

I especially loved the way RTD alluded to television, and the giggle that attended its birth, as the instrument of mankind’s current insanity.

It was also obvious that the Tennant Doctor and Donna Noble are the two characters that RTD excels in writing about. Try as he might, he simply has not found a way to do justice the Gatwa Doctor.

 

[nerys @nerys]

@blenkinsopthebrave It’s interesting that, not so long ago, television was blamed for all of society’s ills. Now it’s cellphones. But I think RTD had a good point about returning to that earlier concern. Of course, it’s a bit odd when a TV show laments the damage done by television.

I wonder if the reason RTD does so well with Tennant’s Doctor and Donna is because he knows them so well. Whereas he’s just not there yet with Gatwa’s Doctor.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Having given up on rewatching the Legend of Ruby Sunday, basically because I’m not that fond of UNIT, I found returning to The Giggle a bit hard work.

A lot of it was great, good acting, well visualised, and theres no problem with 14 surviving as a shell of man. Mel… for me she will always be a desperate attempt by JNT and Grade 40 years ago to make the show wholesome again. Is that what RTD is trying to signal?

And ultimately the Toymaker just rolls over: an adjunct to the bigeneration. Also I now know the sequel… the next series… will be a bit of a curate’s egg. In particular the yawny UNIT bits seem to be a dry run for ‘Legend of Death.’

And all those ‘clues’ may or may not just be a waste of time. Because he said so. Oh!

But why Bill and Sue and 3 babbies? Why? And why Mavity? The Doctor almost recognises the change. Why does he not question the presence of The Vlinx? If one significant thing has changed, why not others? Isn’t virtual reality a game? Is the Toymaker really defeated?

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   Did you get to re-watch this as you threatened?   🙂

I just managed it.   Not a lot of comments.   The Toymaker is so annoying I want to slap him.

The Vlinx is absurd, a Disney creature?   Never satisfactorily explained.

The Toymaker talked of doubling the Doctor again and again.   Reminds me of a Farscape ep where the villain-of-the-week was on an abandoned Leviathan where he kept doubling the crew so he could sustain his supply of brains to eat.   (Anyone who thought Farscape was for kiddies because the aliens were done by Henson of Muppet fame were – sadly misled).   So he doubled the hero Crichton into two individuals who both thought they were the original.   Episode ended with the two Crichtons sitting with their favourite gun on the table between them, grimly playing Rock-Paper-Scissors – and tying, every time.   (Because of course they would).      The Ncuti-doctor and the Tennant-doctor seem to be getting on better than that, but there’s a certain awkwardness and a hint of future clashes in the scene in their Tardis.   So then Ncuti clones the Tardis  (I’d forgotten that).   Nice solution to the problem.

Don’t know if any other Who episode dealt with the issue of cloning.   Oh yes of course, the Zygon episodes.   Particularly, of course, Osgood.   Except that one Osgood was a human and the other a Zygon, and they knew which (though they weren’t telling).   How far Zygon-Osgood became humanoid by a sort of habituation over time, we don’t know.

And of course Bill, who was replicated by the puddle at the end of The Doctor Falls – which the Toymaker mentioned.

And a number of Dalek ‘skin jobs’ (a term I borrow from Battlestar Galactica), such as Darla (Asylum of the Daleks) and Tasha Lem  (The Time of the Doctor).

The final scene is kinda sappy (Disney?!) but kinda nice.   I most certainly did like it that the Doc had been giving Rose (2) the odd trip in the Tardis.    So this Doctor seems to have retired.   Will he die of old age eventually?   Does bigeneration preclude him from future regenerations?   Don’t know.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

Yes… I have started it.

This IS a harder watch than I remember first time.

1. Good points…

the sense of foreboding over the Toymaker.

The CGI… you couldn’t do that 10 years ago.

The ‘net’ madness… everyone has to be right and no-one is an expert. I have talked about ‘noises off’; it is unbearable. My impression is, never mind Gatwa, the show was targeted after that. Which means Russ is on to something.

The Toymaker… a game of two halves. We’ll see about the second half. Interesting that Russ should lead with such an over-the-top cod German pastiche. I can’t say it’s out of character; and it is still a very British thing… Mitchell and Webb, ‘thinking’ comedians, had self-aware SS officers disturbed by the skulls on their lapels… ‘Hansi! How can ve be ze gut guys?!’ Maybe he’s also touching on Rowan & Martin’s laugh in. ‘Wery interesting but shtoopid!’

He LIKES to make you uneasy.

10 and Donna just slot back together. Talented as Gibson and Gatwa are… it’s a tough act to follow.

The puppet recap… it’s almost a criticism of Moff: No-one dies!!! I’m sure Stukey Bill was meant to return in the arc. Who knows now?

 

2. ‘interesting points.’

the eight of clubs,

the V’linx… the Doctor just accepts him??

the ‘salt’ theory… it’s not a lampshade but a McGuffin placed back on the shelf; the arc doesn’t start in Wild Blue Yonder but The Star Beast.

Mel is obviously there to have perfect pitch. Lala lalalala Lah!

The satellite sub plot and its resemblance to The Archangel Network is clumsily lampshaded. ‘Oooh no! Can’t be that.’ ie that is what it is.

The gold tooth. Russ did that on his tod. A chekhov’s gun. Max Capricorn had one just like it!

The bigeneration itself. Interesting that they should reboot War Games soon after. But Tennant is now on Ice. Billie rocks up eventually. All the V clues. REG in Rogue’s scan.

 

3. Problems

UNIT… it’s like a Fam you wheel out to tone down The Doctor when he goes meta and super. (Gruff) Where are the blokes luv? Or Disney just liked the idea.

The exposition. New streaming partner maybe… no this is rushed writing. Russ writes a lot of these two series. It shows. The seasons are short. In the first run he rewrote everyone but Moff. Has Russ got a script editor as good as himself? Probably not.

The games… they are manifestly NOT games but vehicles for The Doctor’s backstory and biregeneration. First thought/best though maybe… or more rushed writing? Also this is a pattern… classic character return… underwhelms. Bad art… or VR?

 

4. Knowing what’s coming.

The Pantheon… 12 in 1. Watched Fendahl recently. From the 5th planet to Mars (see ep 4) to Earth. A being with 12 (ridiculous) components, and ‘a core’ that, once fully formed, eats life itself. Remind you of anyone?

Continuity… if not Russ going forward, then Who? Will they take all this on? Or will Piers Wenger try to turn it into a soap again?

Still need to watch the end again. Will include with ‘Church.’

 

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u     The Toymaker’s pseudo-German was really annoying at first.   I think he dropped it later in the episode (thankfully).      What made the Toymaker so hard to combat, I think, was that he didn’t have plans for world domination or any particular motive, he was just having malicious fun.

Mitchell & Webb had some classics, my favourite is ‘Brain Surgeon’, not least because it stands one convention on its head:     In most sketches, much of the humour comes from an unexpected punchline that inverts everything.   In Brain Surgeon, you know exactly what the punchline is going to be, to the point where you’d be really frustrated if it didn’t happen, yet when it does it’s still funny and immensely satisfying.

That gold tooth that was left behind when the Toymaker blinked out of existence – very reminiscent of the Master’s signet ring from Last of the Time Lords.   Which implies that he will be back, some time, somehow.

 

[nerys @nerys]

@dentarthurdent I love “Brain Surgeon”, along with many of their other sketches. We saved a handful of Mitchell & Webb videos and, when we’re looking for comedic relief, we turn to them. Other favorites include “Moon Landing” and “Homeopathic A&E”.

(Sorry, back to the episode topic.)

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent @nerys

Mitchell and Webb: Many favourites. The post apocalyptic game show, Sir Digby Chicken Caesar… most all ‘Get Me Hennimore’… just a bog standard parody of 70’s sitcoms and then one week they utterly subverted it… something to do with the Klan… I can’t remember now. It’s up there with the Shaun The Sheep when Shirley ate the Ipod, or Johnny Nice Painter from the Fast Show.

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