[PennyInTheAir @replies]

Hi @peargrins 🙂

It does seem Moffat likes leaves lately. If there is a connection between the embroidered leaf, and Clara’s leaf,  maybe it means there is a chance we will see River again someday. (crosses fingers)

Peargrins: Maybe Moffat just likes leaves

Who knows? Maybe the leaves are a metaphor for the companions. The Doctor is the tree. When he is leafless (traveling alone), he seems cold, empty, joyless. When he has companions with him, he’s  more boisterous, adventuresome. He’s  just more alive.

Like the changing of the seasons, the Doctor (tree)  is always there, stalwart and true. Alone in winter (leafless/companionless), he’s barren and cold. In spring (a companion joins him on his adventures), he’s lush and green, youthful again. In summer (the companion grows and matures from traveling with the doctor). In fall (the companion leaves, either of their own volition; Martha. Or a less happy circumstance; Donna.) Then it’s back to winter where we wait for the cycle to begin again.

Or, sometimes maybe a leaf really is just a leaf. 🙂

PennyInTheAir

 

[PennyInTheAir @replies]

Okay, I’m scrapping two theories (one about Clara and her Mom. And the other about a regenerating leaf) and merging them together to try and answer @timeloop question on how the Doctor and Clara escape the timestream. (I got way to complex with that leaf theory. Simplier is always better. 🙂 )

As @Shazzbot reminded us, the Doctor says to Clara…

Doctor: “I’m sending you something. Not from my past, but from yours. This is you, Clara. Everything you were, or will be. You blew into the world on this leaf. Hold tight. It will take you home.”

It’s that simple. The leaf guides them out of the time stream.

The Doctor said in tNotD that he believed he was the most traveled Time Lord in history. (para-phrasing) The Doctor has traveled so much within his lifetime, and his time line, there is probably no one place and time he can focus on to jump out to.

Clara on the other hand has a single short life time, and a single person she can focus on. Her Mom. (which brings me back to my Clara/Mom theory). Blood calls to blood. The leaf first belonged to Clara’s Mom, before it belonged to Clara. Her Mom states emphatically she will always find her when she is lost.

I think the Doctor will encourage Clara to focus on the leaf, to find their way out. She will think of her Mom, and either see her through a crack in the time stream and follow it out to a time when Ellie is still alive. Or, it will bring them to present day beside Ellie’s grave.

And that’s my bonkers theory for this thursday.

PennyInTheAir

(Still doesn’t explain how a leaf that got eaten by grandfather is still in one piece. But I’m still working on that. 🙂 )

 

[PennyInTheAir @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave

Party pooper? Not at all. Sometimes the easiest explaination is the best. For example; the iconic sound of the Tardis being because the Doctor leaves the brakes on. Brillant! 🙂

Maybe the easiest answer to get past the 12 regenerations problem is ‘the Doctor lies’. Not saying that’s the best answer, but it would be the simpliest.

@scaryb

Would love to hear a leaf joke. Unless it’s a Ryan Leaf joke. San Diego Chargers fans, like the Doctor, like to hide their worst mistakes inside the time stream. 🙁

@whisht

A regenerating leaf might have been a step too far even for ‘bonkers’ theorizing. But I do believe that there are still things left unanswered in the show. Like you mentioned, the woman in the shop. Angies new phone courtesy of the Tardis. The Doctor disappearing in the marketplace. Things that stuck out as possibly significant.

As to the leaf theory…

I still am leaning towards a future version of the Doctor sending Clara the leaf inside his time stream. As to what order he traveled back into time (if he does), maybe he sends the leaf to Clara inside the time stream ‘before’ Clara feeds the leaf to grandfather. Maybe the leaf needed to pick up a little extra tardis/doctor time energy to be powerful enough to defeat grandfather. It might also explain why the leaf looks so different in that scene.

Anyway, it seems that the concensus of the posters here believe the 50th will be a stand alone, and won’t answer too many other things from these earlier episodes. So if I come up with anything more bonkers then I already have, I’ll post it in TNotD thread.

Thanks for reading. 🙂

 

PennyInTheAir

 

 

 

[PennyInTheAir @replies]

Hi,

I was posting in the TNotD thread about Clara’s mom when @shazzbot mentioned more theories being made over here. I hope it’s okay to come here and add to the list?

I got distracted from my Clara and her mom theory when I made the mistake of mentioning ‘the leaf’. My mind kind of turned left, and kept on going. This is what it came up with.

 

Leaf Theory:

 

The Doctor sends Clara her leaf when she is lost in the time stream. (Not the present version of the Doctor we see jump into the time stream). So the voice telling Clara he is sending her the leaf is from the future.

At some point, still in the time stream, or after escaping it, the Doctor realizes that a future version of him self sent Clara the leaf.

The leaf, being connected to a combination of the Doctors time stream, and the Tardis (where the time stream is entombed) is now imbued with regenerative powers. (stemming from being in close contact with all the regenerated versions of the Doctor).

The Doctor realizing the significance of this leaf then starts popping back through time so that at some point he can send Clara, and himself the leaf in the time stream.

The Doctor goes back in time to Clara’s parents’ first meeting, (when the leaf blew into the dad’s face).  (Now, this part isn’t strictly necessary, as long as the ‘time stream leaf’ finds its way into Clara’s book before TBoSJ) So future Doctor could have brought about Clara’s parents meeting, or simply substituted the TS leaf at any point before TBoSJ, where present Doctor tastes it and gets suspicious.

Future Doctor then goes to TRoA to distract past Doctor, so that Clara can meet the Queen of Years. (Where the Doctor disappeared in the marketplace). Clara later feeds the leaf to grandfather, and the Doctor and Clara leave to go home. After they leave, future Doctor shows up at the spot where Clara fed the leaf to grandfather, and watches the leaf regenerate. Picks it up, and heads back to the future (The Name of the Doctor) where he can send the leaf back into the time stream.

At this point I’m not quite sure of the significance of the leaf. Does it somehow help the Doctor and Clara to escape? Or with those regenerative powers, (along with the ‘infinite potential/possibilities’ which the leaf represents), could the Doctor use the leaf to grant himself infinite regenerations?

This ‘bonkers theorizing’ might just be addictive. 🙂

 

PennyInTheAir

 

[PennyInTheAir @replies]

@whohar

*shudder* I do agree with you that I’m not fond of the idea of River being Clara’s mom/or grandmother. Been there, done that with Amy and Rory.

It’s just with all these mother/daughter themes thrown out through out this second half of the series, that scene from Hide just seems to keep pulling at me.

“Blood calling to Blood”

“Not everything ends, not love, not always”

Oswin recording a message to her mom in ‘Asylum of the Daleks’ (to keep her sane)

Clara telling Angie her mom was a ‘great woman’ while trying to make a souffle in ‘The Name of the Doctor’

Clara’s mom telling her she would always find her in ‘The Rings of Akhaten’

Trading her mom’s ring for the flying scooter, and kissing it when she gets it back.

We watched the Doctor follow her parents around as she was growing up.

And that strange/magical leaf. The one that brought her parents together in the first place. That leaf, and her mom are the two most recurring theme/person in this series. Maybe more so than Jenny/Vastra/Strax combined.

Maybe the leaf is the catalyst to bring back Clara’s mom? (if she comes back at all)

I hope she does. I’ve seen more of her than I’ve seen of Clara’s supposedly living father. (he’s still alive, right?)

As to River. I think it’s possible for her to enter the doctor’s time stream, but only attached to someone else. The GI was non-coporeal and was scattered when he went through. Clara, coporeal, made it through relatively intact.

Honestly, the only other theory I have concerning River is if Clara was CAL somehow made flesh. If CAL could leave the library, she might still have some connection to River digitally/or psychically. Once they were reconnected through the teleconference link. *shrugs* Yeah, I know. Really reaching with that one. 🙂

But back to Clara’s mom. It just seems there is way too mch reference to her, not for there to be something more to it.

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

PennyInTheAir

 

[PennyInTheAir @replies]

Hi! New here. Been reading the bonkers theories here, for a couple of episodes.

Let’s just say you’ve all made my head hurt …..but in a good way. 🙂

I’ve tried to read as much as I could, but I’m sure I’ve missed alot, so if this has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere already, I apologize.

I was rewatching ‘The Name of the Doctor’ where River asks The Doctor…

River: “I was mentally linked with Clara. If she’s really dead, then how can I still be here?”

Doctor: “OK, how?”

River: “Spoilers.”

I first thought she was simply stating the psychic link proves Clara is still alive. …until tonight (maybe).

After watching TNoTD, I rewatched Hide. Towards the end the Doctor is talking to the psychic and her great, great, and so on, granddaughter, and says…

Doctor: “That’s why the psychic link was so powerful, blood calling to blood.” Then he repeats the psychics earlier line…

Doctor: “Not everything ends, not love, not always.”

Personally, I hope that means there is a way River can come back, but that’s not the gist of this post. It’s about Clara, and her Mom. Now, I’ve never thought The Doctor or River were Clara’s parents. Or related to her in any way. But peoples observations about ‘current’ Clara’s Mom, being the same woman as ‘victorian’ Clara’s Mom, got me thinking about Clara’s story that she was never afraid of being lost, because her Mom promised she would always find her. Clara is definitely lost, and if blood does call to blood, could we see Clara’s Mom again? Will she find a way to come rescue her. Like with Amy who lost her Mom, and now has her back, will the Doctor find a way to bring Clara’s Mom back?

Now I mentioned at the beginning of that previous sentence that I never believed River was Clara’s Mom. I still don’t. But ‘my’ version of bonkers theorizing did segue to River (because of her psychic link with Clara in TNoTD, and she did follow her all the way to Trenzalore) that maybe I could be wrong. And maybe blood is calling to blood. When Clara jumped into the doctor’s timestream, maybe River (still psychically linked, followed right along with her. Keeping her company (or should I say, the claracles), as her/their Mom. (haven’t quite figured out how to make her corporeal) But I do think it’s very feasible for her to still be connected to Clara within the time stream.

Anyway, I was just trying to find an answer for Clara’s Mom saying she would always find Clara if she’s lost, and trying to make that come true.

Thank you for all the bonkers theorizing, you’ve all kept me very entertained, and slightly bonkers. 🙂

PennyInTheAir

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