The Faces of the Doctor

[Mersey @mersey]

@ichabod That’s my chief argument against 12. You can expect that 2000 years old man will be more stoic in the face of death and loss. If you deal with people you have to be prepared for them passing. I thought he figured it out. But it seems that he’s less mature than some of his human companions. Maybe he should take a lesson from Adelaide Brooke. What a creepy episode it was!

@puroandson mentioned Pertwee, the bit mischievous, little authoritarian, old-school Doctor. And I would like 12 to be like that, but he’s in constant depression and I deal with depression in my closest family and I don’t want my favourite hero to be depressed too. I have it every day. So that’s not really entertaining for me. I would like to see in the Doctor a bit of this positive energy which Peter Capaldi has.

[Mersey @mersey]

@bluesqueakpip this is a very serious lecture. Thanks for the link. I will read it very carefully.

[CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis]

When I watch The Doctor, there is always a wide range of emotions. When beloved characters leave, it always leave me sad, but I don’t want “depression”. When The Doctor stays “gloomy” for several episodes, yep, depression, pretty much. And I miss the “old” TARDIS where everything looked like it was patched together with baling wire, a oppressor to duct tape and Superglue. the new TARDIS looks like a carnival ride or carousel.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@mersey  That’s my chief argument against 12. You can expect that 2000 years old man will be more stoic in the face of death and loss

Yes; but then, I wouldn’t care about the character.  He’d be just another standard comic-book superhero — save ’em, lose ’em, all in a day’s work, and all forgotten by next week’s issue or episode — unless deaths become occasions for stories about revenge, and then it’s *all* about rage and revenge.  Once the villains are accounted for, on to the next action adventure.  Loss only figures as a short-lived motive for violence (or a long-lived one, ie the deaths of Bruce Wayne’s parents).  Mourning is in short supply, which renders these “heroes” as shallow as puddles.  One keynote of human identity is that we are time-binding creatures: we think, and feel, about out pasts; we think and feel about our futures.  Remembering past losses and mourning them, brooding about them, or just feeling melancholy about them, gives fictional people human reality that we can connect with.

That the Doctor keeps his sensitivity about death even after seeing so much of it (let alone enduring a form of it himself when he regenerates) makes him “real” as a character and makes us care about him, IMO.  But of course too much of that can slow the story down too much.  What S8-S9 did was to attack that problem by putting him through the emotional costs of many deaths in his past and some in his present, and then *wiping his memory* of the most recent, most painful one — Clara’s death, revival, and departure — so that he *can* move on more lightly in S10, with a lighter, more comfortable emotional balance.

That was Moffat clearing the decks for a rebound of optimism, hope, and lighter humor — think of the Doctor lying in the snow in “Husbands”, saying “I haven’t laughed like that for a long time.”  Or, “Oh.  My.  God.  It’s bigger — on the inside!”  He’s ready for more laughter now, I think, having gone through a justified period of depression of his own instead of just swerving around it, and coming out the other side more like his old self.  My bet is, you’ll like S10’s Doctor #12 much better.  I’m ready for some cheer, myself — because it will have been earned.  They pushed to an extreme of gloom, anxiety, and grief in order to bounce back to purge those feelings for a new start with a brighter outlook.

@cedarbranchtardis   the new TARDIS looks like a carnival ride or carousel.

It is pretty spiffed up and shiny for an old model with faulty circuits, I agree.  I hope we’ll get some dents and scratches in the future, but I suppose she’s doing her housekeeping better now that she’s actually manifested as a human person, at least for a bit, so restorative body work as we go along is to be expected.

 

[TheDentistOfDavros @thedentistofdavros]

@ichabod

John Hurt’s Whistle and I’ll come to you is a teleplay (and a very good one!)

I’m sure that there’s lots of other readings and teleplays of this story out there but this is definitely one of the best! It has been quite heavily adapted but is still great! There is a 1960s teleplay as well that I have seen which is quite good and you can buy that with the new John Hurt version if you buy a box set called A Ghost Story for Christmas by BFI

[Missy @missy]

I much prefer Gin and Tonic – care to join me?

Cheers,

Missy

[Mersey @mersey]

@ichabod

It seems that we have completely different expectations. That’s completely understandable.

For me there’s nothing wrong in another standard comic-book superhero — save ’em, lose ’em, all in a day’s work, and all forgotten by next week’s issue or episode (nicely said). I think that has been the story of the Doctor for the last 50 years.Yes, Doctor has his issues (Amy’s choice, The God complex) but his state of mind was never a subject of any season.

That the Doctor keeps his sensitivity about death even after seeing so much of it (let alone enduring a form of it himself when he regenerates) makes him “real” as a character and makes us care about him.

I don’t think the opposition of sensivity in this case is insensivity but understanding. And there’s another thing which completely pissede me of. The Doctor who was friends with so many people, saved so many and lost so many, couldn’t understand that people mourned the death of their fellow crew members (famous cards in Under the Lake). Sensitivity is not the word which describes him in this scene. For many people that was very funny, I felt rather disappointed.

Seasons 8 and 9 was the story of over 2000 years old man who need to grow up. Doctor lost his authority. And that’s what he was for me. The Authority.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@mersey   The Authority.  We do indeed see him differently!  I’ve generally found him to be too quirky to be that, and also a bit too alien (on and off).  To me, he swings between being on our wave-length and being — not; it’s like an extreme shift of focus, I think.  Close in and fully engaged with us, his understanding is triggered.  When his mind switches to the analysis/action polarity, which is at least half engaged with information, alternatives, puzzles etc., and particularly under time pressure, his understanding gets stretched too thin and may dim out for a while.  To me, that’s part of the intriguing complexity of his nature as a TL.  So that didn’t trouble me, maybe because I do something similar but on a human scale and shot full of holes, under those circumstances.

Reminds me of something similar, but funny too.  An old friend of my sisters came to visit, semi-retired surgeon.  He’s a lovely guy, European, warm and emotional and very easy to get right back in the groove with, even after several decades being out of touch with each other.  He wanted to cook dinner for us (my sister and me), a somewhat complicated dish, and within two minutes my sister and I were transformed into what we realized later had been two nurses in an operating room (my kitchen), where he was instantly Captain Picard, giving firm, calm orders for — a bowl; a larger spoon; a collander, etc. — without once looking at either of us, all his thoughts clearly absorbed in the process he was engaged in.  Then we sat down to a truly delicious meal, and he was again his smat, genial social self, playing music to entertain us after our meal.

When some circuits are full on, others are shouldered into the background until appropriate again; I see that as natural, in accomplished people called upon to bring their sharpest game to a project, and accustomed to both modes and shades between.  But I do see your point, of course; strokes and folks.

 

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@ichabod    That’s a lovely anecdote and very illustrative. I think that the Doctor has moved back and forth between authority and anti hero. Capaldi’s Doctor, it seems to me, can be both. We have access to his inner workings in a way that BG audiences didn’t, and Clara of course has seen his vulnerable side, but I would think that the other people he has come across in his travels of Series 8 and 9 would see him much differently. Although even they question him, because nowadays, I don’t suppose audiences would be content with even one-off characters who said nothing but, “Yes, Doctor”, and ran to do his bidding. Anyway, I almost feel that CapDoc shows up strongest when he is challenged. He can use a few well-chosen, acerbic words to put them in their place!

[ichabod @ichabod]

@arbutus   CapDoc shows up strongest when he is challenged. He can use a few well-chosen, acerbic words to put them in their place!

Yes — but you have to be careful, or you get people whining that the Doctor isn’t supposed to be “mean” to his companion, let alone to be seen to be “putting down” a female companion.  It’s a tricky line to walk, and I wouldn’t want to be the one in charge of any of that . . .

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@ichabod    I was thinking more of the one off “companions” like Journey Blue, or even recurring characters such as Kate Stewart. But even companions, really, in the BG days, were often snarked at or given an earful by the Doctor on occasion. Almost every BG Doc did it at some point, particularly with certain companions. Even Nine let Rose have it on a few occasions. I think the extreme affection and protectiveness that the Doctor had for Amy and Clara, who have been the Doctor’s only Companions in a long while, has caused us to forget what many of the previous relationships were actually like.

I rather like the idea of Bill’s relationship with the Doctor starting off a bit less warm and fuzzy. It would be rather fun, in fact, if they didn’t really like each other at first, and the growth of respect and affection could be a journey rather than something instant. In any case, just seeing a new face with the Doctor will be refreshing as it has been a long time.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@arbutus  I rather like the idea of Bill’s relationship with the Doctor starting off a bit less warm and fuzzy. It would be rather fun, in fact

I’d be happy with that too.

[Mersey @mersey]

@ichabod

Please, reveal me the secret, when exactly 12th was a) sympathetic, b) empathic 🙂 Besides, his focus on a task and lack of emotional response is not a problem for me. 4th was not very emotional, and rather absent but watching him you were sure that he had the best interest of everyone (except villains) at his heart. The same 9th. And they’re my favourites. I think it’s the fact that they’ve tried so many different personality traits on 12th that’s he’s walking emotional chaos.

[Anonymous @]

@mersey

I’ll give it a go:

“He loves her” in the last episode of 2015 (sympathy and empathy) when Clara is held by her boyfriend and she says her goodbyes. The words are the Doctors whilst he’s speaking to Missy.

Also in the penultimate episode, the Dr takes her to ‘hell’ as  it were, to find her boyfriend despite her throwing away his keys and “betraying” him. He loves her. This is sympathy and empathy.

His biggest moment of empathy could be in this past season when he was trying to help the poor zygon before he suicided. I believe they were in a mall? The guy was terrified and the Doctor understood. Completely.

I could count dozens more 🙂

[Mersey @mersey]

@puroandson

Oh, I’m sorry, I forgot to mention that, I don’t count Clara because he loved her enormously like no other  Doctor before loved any other companion. But as I said he’s very chaotic in his emotions.  Two and a half season and I don’t know what kind of Doctor he is. Don’t get me wrong. I adore Peter Capaldi. He has such positives vibes and I just want Doctor to be more positive, more successful and happier. Life is enough miserable to watch how a guy with a time machine can’t save his beloved. How we, ordinary people can not be doomed?

I bet you think that what I write is complete nonsense so that’s enough for me for now.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@mersey   @puroandson      Interesting discussion!

I think that if you view the Doctor through the lens of his past, you find a person who has more often than not tended to a positive, enthusiastic, somewhat wide-eyed view of the cosmos. But like all of us, there are times and situations in life during which one is sometimes sidetracked. The Doctor has clearly gone through phases of being more negative, more anxious, more sad, more sober.

I could imagine that regeneration might be accompanied by a massive hormonal shift, necessary to all that rebuilding of cells and molecules. Imagine the shift that would be caused by an entirely new injection of thirteen more lifetimes’ worth of regeneration energy! I think of my teenage son, an essentially happy-go-lucky personality who has at times struggled through periods of gloom and negativity as he has made his way through puberty; then I look at myself, now currently through the euphemistically-named “change of life”, another basically cheerful person fighting every day the tendency to be cranky and snarky! When I look at Series 8 through this lens, I almost think that CapDoc was going at it from both ends… gloomy, negative, cranky, irritable, and feeling massively superior to those around him! In Series 9, he had come out the other side of his hormonal fluctuations and settled back into the mature, experienced, but essentially positive character that is who he really is.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@mersey  Please, reveal me the secret, when exactly 12th was a) sympathetic, b) empathic

[First, I’m not always sure I’ve got what you mean to say exactly right, but I never think of it as nonsense.]

Second: off the top of my head: of the dinosaur; “Look what I did to her!”  The Doctor’s face after whassername, the woman who takes others’ appearance at will, dies — it’s a few seconds, but he’s clearly horrified and sorry.  The break in his voice at the end of MotOE, “I couldn’t save Moorehouse.  I couldn’t save Quell.”  Flatline: “Sometimes the wrong people survive.”  His manner with the child Davros on the battlefield — took his hand, for god’s sake, to reassure him!  The softening of the voice to deliver the translation of the baby’s crying in Girl.  The biggie, though, ” . . . more screams than anyone could count!”  That whole speech us about the sufferings of the dying in war — it’s not his own screams that haunt him.  It’s theirs.

Anyway, lots; and yes, his emotions/distancing are in a pretty wild tarantella in S8, “chaotic” as you say, reflecting (IMO) the chaos of his newly-regenerated mind and hearts.  You could consider S9 a drive right through that developing sympathy/empathy for others to the extreme of obsession’s negative pole: you lose feelings for any others *except* the One who is your obsession, and that makes you destructive and callous in your actions, as we see.  He’s regained some balance, and steadier feelings with it, but then obsession narrows his focus again and he cares nothing for anyone’s pain but Clara’s.

By the end of S9, as I see it, the Doctor sees this, and reacts against it (“Look what I did, for fear of losing you”).  “Never be cruel or cowardly, and never give up” becomes “Never be cruel or cowardly, and if you are, always make amends.”  The difference is a measure of his growth: the old version is all about the Doctor — *his* actions, *his* personal honor and strength demonstrated by his actions to himself and the world.  The substitution of “always make amends” suddenly puts the people affected by his actions right up there in prime time, as those who must be honored as having the right to judge his behavior toward them: if the behavior has been a failure of his own ideals, amends are owed to them more than to his own self-regard or his own reputation.

Who is he thinking of?  In the context of the immediate situation, Donna, and Clara as her stand-in, the person he was about to treat as he treated Donna.  A huge change, I’d say, and a statement of empathy with others on the level of principle.  It’s a place that S8 and S9 have been driving him — and on the basis of that insight (that when others are involved, they’re really there too and their subjectivity is as real as his own), I think now he *can* be that happier, less broody and snarky and more confident Doctor I sure am also ready for in S10.

 

 

 

[Anonymous @]

@mersey

no, I don’t think it’s nonsense at all and I know where you’re coming from.

I do however think he’s a completely complicated man. For me the essence of happiness and goodness comes from the other darker side. Through the darkness, the sad eyes, the old eyes and the gloom, we have one thing to focus on: and that’s hope. Without hope there’s despair.

I don’t think Moffat has entirely driven us to that yet -and won’t have that opportunity. Certainly the Doctor’s ‘night’ on Darillium with his wife showed us that hope and brilliance -for me it shone, and the Doctor shone, like a diamond.

Even his constant picking away “like a bird” whilst stuck in the Torture Chamber showed the Doctor has hope -his predicaments are there for us all to see; with that in mind we know he is capable of compassion, empathy and of love.

In nearly every episode I sensed that in the background

Kindest,

Puro Solo.

[winston @winston]

@puroandson @mersey and @ichabod    I always see the past Doctors and all their memories when I look into 12s face and see his reactions to situations around him , so I feel that all those emotions are inside him battling to appear. But how does he show them ,who is he?

The Doctor doesn’t know who he is when he regenerates “Am I a good man?” asks 12.   Doc 10  says “I literally don’t know who I am.”  and 11 tells Amelia “I don’t know yet, I’m still cooking” so he needs time to figure out what kind of a man he is or will be. CapDoc had an even stranger regen leaving him confused and then hurt by Clara’s first reactions, and when she did accept that he was the Doctor it was because 11 asked her to.My point finally is that Clara knows that 11 is in there and she met 10 and the war Doctor so she knows they are also part of him and that he is a good man. Clara sets about to help him know himself right up to her final message “Be a Doctor”

I feel that he proved himself to be a kind compassionate man capable of deep feelings of love and hate. He is also old and young and fun and serious all at the same time. I look forward to the next series.

[Missy @missy]

@puroandson

I agree, and I like the Doctor just the way he is.

@mersey

You forget Rose and DT’s Doctor. He loved her, but gave her his clone. also, I don’t think you wrote nonsense.

I shall read the above later, my head is swimming right now.

ttfn

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@puroandson  Oh, thanks for the suicidal zygon scene — forgot that one!  It certainly belongs in our catalog of CapDoc’s sympathy and empathy.  And of course there are those moments when he recoils from his own softer feelings into harshness as a way of avoiding being overwhelmed, best example in Dark Water, after “Do you think I care for you so little” — she’s about to melt into a puddle of miserable, self-loathing goop, and he turns his back to get a grip on his own feelings and then turns back and starts snapping at her — to get them *both* firmed up for an assault on “Heaven” to look for Danny.  I know, that’s about Clara, but it’s not that far from taking child Davros’s hand on the battlefield.

@arbutus  Love the idea of a teenaged sort of hormonal storm knocking the Doctor for six after that totally unexpected regen!  Perfect!  And it works perfectly with the all-or-nothing commitment to Clara, too — a version of the hormonal teen’s headlong romance above and beyond all things, gallant knight to beautiful damsel (but it’s *now*, so she’s brave and capable, too).  Lovely.  That’s our extravagant space-strider, isn’t it?  Sometimes, anyway.

[DoctorDani @doctordani]

Interesting discussion here. I think the thing with Twelve is that whilst he doesn’t wear his heart on his sleeve, it’s very much a case of still waters run deep. He doesn’t reveal his empathy in obvious ways, but it’s very much there. Look at the way he slowly grinds down Bonnie during his big speech in ‘The Zygon Inversion’. Everything he says comes from knowing what it’s like to commit genocide and not wanting anybody else to feel that kind of crushing guilt. Even someone who’s ostensibly his enemy. In stark contrast, lovable, cuddly Eleven could be off-handedly cruel at times, which I think I betrayed something much darker in him. He was awful to Rory when he told him Amy wasn’t more important than all of creation, and then he treated River terribly when he refused to trust her and later told her she brought shame on him shortly before they married. In fact, he was pretty horrible to her most of the time, even though he knew she was ultimately going to sacrifice herself for him.

I’m totally with @ichabod though. I do think we’ll see a changed Doctor in S10 as a result of what happened with Clara and because he’ll have spent 24 years with his wife (has he ever spent that much linear time with someone?). To be honest, I think we already saw it in that short clip of Bill. Without whining, he immediately grabbed her hand when the Dalek was approaching. He seemed more grounded, more connected, if not any less exasperated.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@doctordani     I agree. It would also be impossible to experience what the Doctor went through in Heaven Sent without lasting impact! I like the idea that the Christmas episode is like a punctuation mark to the finale of S9. A purification (in Heaven Sent) followed by catharsis (the battles fought with others and self in Hell Bent), and then a healing, as he rediscovers River and gets that glorious 24 years. When next we meet the Doctor (with Bill), he is a fully recovered and grounded individual once again. (I hope he keeps that lovely crankiness, as to me, it is a critical part of 12’s personality.)

[DoctorDani @doctordani]

@arbutus I just think it stands to reason that he’d at least be a little different. After all, River goes to the Library knowing with certainty that The Doctor a. loves her and b. that he’ll turn up whenever she asks him to. She’s also changed enough to sacrifice herself without giving it a second thought after verging on begging him to re-write history just before he does the ’24 years’ reveal at the end of THORS.

[ichabod @ichabod]

@arbutus  I suspect that with the anxieties and frustrations of S8 and S9 burned through and put away, maybe we’ll see a bit more of the sharp edge, but in S10 it will be directed outwardly, not a matter of painful self-interrogation, so — more snarky comedy, less angst and bitterness, will go nicely with a more confident and optimistic CapDoc and still give Capaldi chances to exercise his Malcolm Tucker side.

Well, one can hope.

[Missy @missy]

On can certainly hope @ichabod and if it’s written by Moffat, Peter Capaldi will do it justice.

Ttfn

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy   That he will, and I’ll be there, with bells on, to watch!

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod

See you there then, I’ll bring the snacks. *grins*

ttfn

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy  I have extra bells, too, in case yours have been mislaid during this long wait . . .

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod Ta muchly, I accept the offer, as my pair are jangling on Sherlock.

ttfn

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy   Ah, belled the cat, did you?  Watch out, he’s a clever one!

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod

Miaow.

ttfn

Missy

[Mersey @mersey]

Misery, loss and death are always good entertaintment. As long as they don’t concern you. But maybe I shouldn’t express my opinion as now I’m probably not a ‘model spectator’ in Umberto Eco’s words.

[TimeyWimey @tabitha27]

You see the thing is Every time the Doctor regenerates he does not just change his face he becomes a completely different man, his feelings change. This is shown best with Rose as when she is with 9 they are best friends but when he regenerates he becomes a younger man with different tastes and then develops the feeling of love for Rose. So when the Doctor regenerates it is like he has just passed his title and memories on to his Son from his deathbed as he is about to become a new person not at all as he was before!

[Missy @missy]

@tabitha27

True. I mean look at thr difference between 9-10-11 and now 12.  All the latter liked ahug, but this Doctor, doesn’t.

He’s very different from the first three.

Missy

[winston @winston]

@tabitha27   welcome to the site!   I am sure you will like it here. I think the doctor keeps his memories and his past feelings when he regenerates. The 12th Doctor still loves and misses Amy but she is gone so he moves on and 11 still misses and feels guilty about Rose but she is settled with her own Doctor so he moves on without her. When the 10th Doctor met Sarah Jane again he not only still loved her but he felt guilty about the way he left her but he hates goodbyes. The Doctor takes a lot of guilt with him when he regens. I think that when the 10th gets deeper feelings for Rose that it is more a natural process than the Doctor having differant feelings than the 9th.So I think the Doctor does change in many ways but he still has  feelings for those he met in his previous regenerations. Whew, that was long winded.

[Anonymous @]

@tabitha27 I echo welcomes to you by others. I’m sure you’ll love it here as we do.

@mersey no, no, you ARE a model spectator – I understand totally how you felt about the Zygon episodes as well as the more miserable aspects of the show last year where there was a really intense element of it. This particular face of the Doctor isn’t sweet or just mischievous – he doesn’t banter, his heart by the end of the Zygon two parter is well and truly stripped down , raw but shown nonetheless, so I think after coming to terms with his losses (and he’s had an eternity of loss) the next season will show a lighter, clearer Doctor with grief healed. Certainly Mersey, I can empathise with your sentiments about the past seasons. I surely hope there’ll be less sadness and more successful adventured for the Doctor and his new companion in 2017.

kindest, PuroSolo

PS last phrase should read ” more successful adventures for the Doctor”

darn this ‘think pad’ I need a new laptop which I can rename. My dearly departed was named Stellar . I need some new ideas for laptop names. 🙂

[Missy @missy]

PuroSolo

My computer is a tower, not a lap top. I also have this need to give inanimate objects names, instead of constantly saying “my computer.”

So everyone, meet REX.

Missy

 

[SeverusOswald @severusoswald]

My favourites have always been Smith and Tennant, but I also like Baker, Troughton, Capaldi and Pertwee.

[Missy @missy]

When I was asked a while back, who my favourite Doctor was, I didn’t have one. Christopher, David, Matt – I liked all three for different reasons. than along came Peter Capaldi and everything changed. to me He IS the Doctor.

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy   I know the feeling; although I’m one of the mob that was charmed and delighted by Tom Baker.  The rest I could take or leave, until Peter Capaldi came on the scene.  Holy moly, I was a gone goose in no time — though I’d checked out TToI (once we knew he was the oncoming Doctor), so I was pleasantly anticipating interesting work from him because of that (to tell the truth, I’d completely forgotten his performance in “Local Hero” — it had made no lasting impression).

Then, “Deep Breath”, and *wallop*!   Done for.

I was talking with a friend about this lately, and realized that I’ve always been struck — in a positive way — by a certain sort of aquiline male face.  She suggested that this is because I’ve somehow fixed on that template as an indicator of unusual intelligence (Sherlock Holmes, for instance, as originally described and as played most memorably by Basil Rathbone).  Freeman Dyson is perhaps a real-world example of the type, boiled down to a 92 year old little man with a gnomish, twinkling look as well as a truly formidable nose (and, sure enough, intellect).

Huh.  Life is — odd.

 

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod: I had to smile. Interest raised it’s head when swinging from a tree. the Doctor informed the coachman that he was speaking to the horse!  What did for me, was the beginning of the second episode, when HE greeted Clara with coffee, saying that he’d been distracted – for two weeks?

I have always preferred men with high cheekbones and a build thin to slender.  Never cared for muscles   and there are quite a few at the moment. Benedict Cumberbatch, Eddie Redmayne, Lee Ingleby, Ben whishaw, David Tennent. Colin Morgan, Peter Capaldi, love that shape face. It’s interesting that the really good looking actors seem to coarsen with age, ( remember Tony Curtis?) and yet  the lanky horsey ones become more atttraactive. I find PC very attractive now – very. *grins*

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy   the really good looking actors seem to coarsen with age

Yes, but then the standard of male “really good looks” in the US is always been (I think) a sort of square-jawed face, like Rock Hudson, Burt Lancaster, Clark Gable, Brando, Matt Dillon, et al, and that tends to soften and squash out laterally with age, as musculature succumbs to gravity and additional fat (although nowadays, sometimes the men get serious about exercise — and plastic surgery? — and ditch the fat, at least for a while; Mark Ruffalo did this recently, but is starting to flatten down again now).  Tony Curtis was a good example — and you can see it taking hold now with our prime recent (IMO) example of “really good looking”, George Clooney.

I never, even in my teens, cared much for those guys (I square-ish face, myself, from my mom’s Austrian/Jewish forebears, now in its own squashy phase; maybe for me opposites do attract?).  I’m drawn to more eccentric looks, most on the long, bony model — Guy Rolfe, Conrad Veidt, Gary Cooper, Jimmie Stewart, John Turturo (now that he’s lost that buck-toothed goofy boy look), the guy who starred in “Psycho” (his name just flew out of my head), the Brit starring in “The Limey” (another blanked name) who was boringly beautiful but has become very striking with age, and of course Peter Capaldi.  Definitely Peter Capaldi . . .

I’ve always liked an older face, in both men and women — “lived in”, as they say, with lines of character to show for it, rather than a blank but pretty slate.  Your list of goodies is a bit to young still for my taste, but most of them will age out very nicely.

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod

The Limey” (another blanked name) who was boringly beautiful but has become very striking with age, and of course Peter Capaldi.  Definitely Peter Capaldi . . .

Oh, most definitely. Loved the reference to  the tattoo of his name on a womans’ back- a very beautiful woman – his wife.

I did have a “thing” for Timothy Dalton” once – wrong shaped face, but slender frame.

My list are of actors with that shaped face and slim build, was an example of what attracts me to them, as long as they can act too. I much prefer forty onwards, when age has begun marking out the years.

Missy

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy  Got it — Terrence Stamp!  In “The Limey”, and that thing with Matt Damon, I think, running about chased by a bunch of future bureaucrats through lots of doorway from one street to halfway across the park or something . . . He’s got this weird, sort of dried up beautiful old gangster look to him now.  Stamp, not Damon.

Timothy Dalton — did you see him in the series “Penny Dreadful”?  Nice beard, looked really good on him.

There was a discussion someplace — ?? — about Cumberbatch being the Doctor at some point — I’d just seen “Dr. Strange”, as had most of the discussants — some enthusiastically pro, most not.  Not, I would say.  He’s got the build, and the long-ish face, but it’s like plastic — maybe he just needs to age out a bit, as he’s still quite a young man.

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod: I haven’t seen this film, so cannot judge. No, I haven’t seen Timothy Dalton in Penny Dreadful. the last thing I him in was Doctor who and he still looked good.

Was there a discussion about Doctor Strange? Blimey, I missed it. Most of the reviews I read – most, not all – thought he was well cast as the Doctor , as do I. he certainly looks good with that goatee and can, in my opinion, play just about anyone he has that sort of face. Marvel comics are not my ‘thing’ but I made an exception this time and enjoyed it.

However, I must admit to being biassed. I’m a firm  admirer of Benedict. Alan Turing, Van Gogh, Sherlock. Hamlet, Richard lll, Parades End, ecetera, etcetera. Still, you can’t please everyone. *grins*

Missy

 

 

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy  “Parades End” was pretty good; I just watched the BBC version of “A Dance to the Music of Time”, and right now another series (on Acorntv) from a novel I’d never heard of, “The Camomile Lawn”, all about a sweet and pleasant England blown to smithereens by war.

I put a critical comment about “Strange” on the movies discussion — I enjoyed the beginning, but as it never got any deeper below the “action” surface (with its light but glossy polish of Asian martial arts spiritualism), I got bored, so it felt too long.  I liked the cloak, of course.  Who wouldn’t like the cloak?!  Cumberbatch — not yet, for me.  He needs another decade and a half, at least.  I prefer them marked a bit by Time and experience (well, why not?  I am, and so are most of my friends!).

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod;

At last! I couldn’t get on to the forum – again! Hence my absence.

Quite understandable, but it isn’t that I ‘fancy’  ( as the doctor would say) BC or the others, just am drawn to their build and shape of their face.

Though I’d clear that up. *grins*

Missy.

 

[ichabod @ichabod]

@missy  — Yep; the meaning, I guess, of this one or that one is my type — or *not* my type.

[Missy @missy]

@ichabod;

Spotonski!

I missed out Laurence Fox  – Lewis – and Shaun Evans – Endevour.

Oh, those high cheekbones.

Missy

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