The Faces of the Doctor

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  • #51595
    winston @winston

    @joamdalf   It is almost impossible to define the Doctor but there are some things about him that never change. He does not have a weapon, only his huge brain ,quick wit, bravado and sometimes a sonic screwdriver or sunglasses. He always seems to have a plan to right a wrong or an injustice. He can be cranky but rarely cruel or mean.When everyone runs away in fear the Doctor runs right into the action. He is quirky and silly and funny but never stupid.

    I would say watch the 50th anniversary episode to get an idea of who the Doctor is.

    #51596
    todeledo @todeledo

    The Doctor always try to fix an injustice even when he has to go against a hole society to do so. He is not someone that adapts to other people’s wishes. He can be whoever he wants to be. He loves adventures and to learn new things. Otherwise he would never know as mutch as he does. He thinks that everyone and everything is unique and fabulous. But he can get very disappointed in humanity(and other aliens) when they don’t respect life. I recommend listen, the waters of Mars and dalek.

    #51615
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @missy    To be fair, had River not firmly believed that Smith Doc was in his last possible incarnation, I think she would have guessed fairly quickly who the Doctor was. But sometimes a very strong preconception can make the truth practically impossible to see.

    @joamdalf     Personally, if I met someone who seemed clever enough but freely said a lot of things that made no sense, peered with great fascination at things that most people would consider horrific, and talked with either great enthusiasm or deep scorn about “you humans”, I would be pretty sure I was talking to the Doctor, no matter what he or she looked like!  🙂

    #51624
    Missy @missy

    @arbutus

    Oh very true. River was convinced that he would still have the MS face, not realising that “A thing” had happened.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #51626
    ichabod @ichabod

    @missy  Ah, those “things” that happen — DW spark plugs!  You don’t have to know exactly how they work, but they do keep the engine rolling onward.  A great way to avoid having the characters explaining to each other what we’ve watched them doing an episode or twelve back.

    #51628
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @missy      I loved that line. I always felt it was a nice little thumb of the nose to the fans who, between the 50th anniversary and the Matt Smith swansong, spent cartloads of energy trying to figure out how Moffat would be able to convincingly give the Doctor extra regenerations; in the end, “a thing happened”.  🙂

    #51643
    Missy @missy

    @arbutus

    Classic, isn’t it.

    I find that I’m using the word now. when asked yesterday “how di yoy do that?” I replied:

    “A thing happened.”

    Sorry, cant help myself it’s adictive. *big grin*

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #51928
    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    Help me here. The Doctor can regenerate 12 times, or there can be 12 Doctors total? What happens when we run out of regeneration’s?

    #51938
    DalekTor @dalektor

    @cedarbranchtardis

    The Doctor has a regeneration cycle. There are 13 lives per cycle.

    1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-8.5/War-9-10-10-11

    If he runs out of lives (11) then he dies for good next time.

    However, at the end of The Time of The Doctor, he was granted another cycle.

    12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24

    We’re currently on 12. That means that unless they give the Doctor more cycles, then he will continue to regenerate until he hits 24.

    #51943
    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    Thanks, appreciate that, but it sounds like Common Core math to me. LOL

    #51977
    Missy @missy

    All I care about is that he carries on regenerating.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #51979
    TheDentistOfDavros @thedentistofdavros

    Hello everyone!

    I think we may all have noticed a slight change from Peter Capaldi’s portrayal of the doctor between his debut series and series 9. Just thought we could have a discussion on whether or not you like the more funnier and light-hearted doctor from series 9 or if you preferred the darker and more serious version in series 8! They are still undeniably the same Doctor of course, but I did notice the change and wondered if anyone didn’t like it or embraced it.

    I personally thought that Peter’s doctor over both series has been brilliant but I tend to lean towards the more serious portrayal in series 8, I just thought it was wonderful to have a change after following on from Matt and David (who weren’t to similar themselves but were still probably very jokey in the same way) and was glad to have a more stricter presence in the TARDIS!

    What do you all think?

    #51986
    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    I like him a little lighter at the least. The Doctor was getting depressing, too much “inner guilt”, for lack of a better term.

     

    #51993
    Missy @missy

    @thedentistofdavros

    I find both sides of the Doctor enjoyable. there isn’t any reason why Peter can’t play it bogh ways, when/if the script calls for it.

    cheers,

    Missy

    #51997
    Anonymous @

    @thedentistofdavros

    Hello there! I actually like the Doctor the way he is now. I absolutely loved the complicated plot lines and the serious side of the Doctor this year. I didn;t really enjoy all of last year’s that much due to the ‘funny’ stories -not until the last 2 eps anyway. This year was very tragic and clever and there was ennui -that’s mum’s word. She’s yellin’ at me to type it. I better go look it up. She doesn’t tell me anything 🙂

    Thank you

    Puricle

    #52001
    TheDentistOfDavros @thedentistofdavros

    @puroandson

    I too thought that the storylines and episodes were better in series 9 than they were in series 8! But I just thought the different dynamic between him and Clara was more interesting in series 8! Of course I still loved his portrayal in series 9 but just thought it was more unpredictable in his first series!

    #52015
    ichabod @ichabod

    @puroandson  @thedentistofdavros   I liked the herky-jerky mixed pickles of S8 a lot, myself — I felt “invited into” the headlong rush of newness and confusion that both leads were trying to get past, after him left reeling by a completely unexpected new set of regenerations instead of flat-out death, and her losing her Chin boy (after everything she’d done for him!) and getting stuck with this high-strung older guy trying to find his balance.  Then in S9, their road has come together and smoothed out and they’re getting on well, but the road itself leads nowhere good . . . loved that, too.  No ennui for me . . . And wherever they go from here, I’m  happy to ride along.

    #52021
    Missy @missy

    @puroandson

    I thought ennui meant ‘boredom? If nothing else, the Doctor is never boring. *grins*

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52022
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    ennui isn’t “boredom” exactly -as a def. I also think the Doctor was experiencing a certain amount of it. 🙂

    Quite a bit, actually.

    Certain members of civilised society during the time of Trotsky and Lenin -shall we say the ‘intelligentsia” experienced ennui? As did the readers of C K Chesterton.

    #52023
    Mersey @mersey

    I love Peter Capaldi and that how he enjoys playing/being the Doctor (it’s obvious that he has much fun) but I would like to see more of this positive energy in the Doctor. I want to see the Doctor who enjoys being himself. He speaks a lot that he saves people but he failed to save major characters like Clara, Danny, Osgood, Ashildr.

    #52024
    Anonymous @

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>@dalektor</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>So, including the war Doctor and the second 10, there were 12 regenerations and 13 Doctors BEFORE Peter Capaldi. He would start the cycle as the 14th, and with 12 more regenerations, he would end as the 28th, but still in our heads he would be considered the 24th. (Sorry to state the obvious, just wanted to check that I got that right.)</p>

    #52025
    Anonymous @

    As for my opinion on CapDoc in his two seasons, this was my first time watching a new Doctor join the show in Season 8. I only started watching Doctor Who around 2011 on Netflix,  and it took a while to get caught up. With 12’s being my first live regeneration, it was hard having to get used to a new Doctor. I gave him a chance and thought he was okay in season 8, but I still missed Matt Smith.

    But by Season 9…Oh my gosh! Season 9 was amazing; Capaldi’s acting was amazing; I basically loved everything about it. Right now, I think I could say that 12 is my favorite Doctor. So, I have to say I liked him better in 9. I hope he stays for at least two more seasons.

    #52029
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @TheConsultingDoctor

    You’re right that Capaldi’s Doctor is technically the fourteenth incarnation, not the Twelfth. (twelve regenerations = 13 incarnations – Capdoc is now No. 14). But the next set of regenerations will end with No. 26, not 28. I think maybe you mistyped it, because you’re correct that that actor should be seen as the 24th.

    If, that is, the next actor is No. 13. They might suddenly start ‘counting’ the War Doctor so that the next actor can be No. 14. 🙂

    #52031
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip

    Yes, I meant 26. 😉 It’s early in the morning here.

    #52032
    Mersey @mersey

    @bluesqueakpip @TheConsultingDoctor so Christopher Eccleston is 10, David Tennant 11, Matt Smith 12, Peter Capaldi 13? No way 🙂 It’s the price of the return of the Time Lords.

    Moffat considered 9 as the one to blew up Gallifrey but he new that Ecclestone would say NO! I don’t know why he didn’t pick 8 but I guess 8 was almost a complete stranger for many younger fans (not to mention that he wasn’t the most charismatic Doctor) and of course Paul McGann is not an actor of the same calibre as John Hurt. So Moffat created the War Doctor or something like that (I’m so thankful for sparing 9!)

    #52034
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @mersey

    That’s why I now tend to refer to the post-McGann Doctor Doctors (sorry!) as the Hurt, Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi Doctors.

    I think Moffat really, really wanted Eccleston (though I do understand why Chris said ‘No’). John Hurt has said that he basically had about three weeks notice to play the War Doctor.

    I think Paul McGann could have played it; but the Eighth Doctor is the last of the Before Gap Doctors, and Day of the Doctor is really a prequel to ‘Rose’ – it’s such a terrific backstory for Eccleston’s Doctor and the subsequent shell-shocked and traumatised Tennant and Smith Doctors. Thematically, the idea that the Doctor is so traumatised by what he did, he never even acknowledges the existence of one of his own incarnations is (in my opinion) a much better idea than using either McGann or Eccleston’s Doctors. It may have been a case of happy serendipity following Chris Eccleston’s final refusal, but happy serendipity it certainly was. 🙂

    #52035
    Mersey @mersey

    @bluesqueakpip

    I said once that Paul McGann was the worst Doctor ever (I feel really guilty about that). I was wrong. It wasn’t his fault that this movie was so terrible. He was terrific in the Big Finish productions. With no doubt he was the most sensitive Doctor.

    I’ve been thinking how 10 and 11 could be so traumatized after the Day of the Doctor. If all 13 Doctors saved Gallifrey, all of them should know that they didn’t destroy it and should remember how they saved it together. At least 9, 10, and 11. Do series 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 depict alternative timeline which was rewritten? Or I missed something?

    #52036
    DalekTor @dalektor

    @mersey

    I believe that they handwaved it by saying that they don’t remember it until Eleven because of Timeline Crossing Physics or something else timey-wimey.

    #52037
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @mersey

    They don’t remember that they saved it. I did do a blog a couple of years back, which puts forward the alternative timeline theory; but it’s stated in the script of Day of the Doctor that memories can’t be retained if the time-lines are out of synch.

    In other words, you can’t remember changing your own past if remembering changing it means you’re never going to change it. 🙂

    From Day of the Doctor onwards, the Doctor should be able to remember two pasts: one where he destroyed Gallifrey, one where he just thought he did. That he does remember destroying Gallifrey is implied by his doubt about being a ‘good man’.

    @nick did a counter-argument where he put forward the idea that time was never changed; the Doctor simply thought he’d destroyed Gallifrey.

    #52038
    CedarBranchTardis @cedarbranchtardis

    Love the guitar, but does he have a sonic screwdriver? If not, he needs one. That’s as much a part of The Doctor as the TARDIS.

    #52039

    @cedarbranchtardis

    **Whistles innocently**

    #52042
    Anonymous @

    @mersey

    “and of course Paul McGann is not an actor of the same calibre as John Hurt. So Moffat created the War Doctor or something like that (I’m so thankful for sparing 9!)’

    Disagree.

    I think McGann is every bit as good as -or better- than Hurt. Withnail and I? I could name dozens; scores, even! 🙂

    Anyway, tis opinion.

     

    #52043
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Hi @puroandson

    Normally, I would agree with you every time, but…

    Sure Paul McGann has done some great stuff, really great.

    But Hurt? Where do I start and where do I stop?

    I will start with one example: his Caligula in “I Claudius”.

    Then there was “1984”, and “The Naked Civil Servant” and “Tinker, Tailor…” And, well, stuff.

    And most recently there was the M.R. James story “Whistle and I’ll Come to You”. The word “haunting” doesn’t do justice to his interpretation. It was unforgettable.

    Soooo, yes, Paul McGann has done some great stuff, but Hurt really does deserve the appellation “brilliant”.

    Cheers.
    p.s. I assume Autumn has finally arrived in Queensland, as Spring has finally made it to Ontario.

    #52044
    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    goodness, I was logged in, wrote a whole page, pressed submit and everything disappeared. It took half an hour!

    Eek.

    Anyway, I shall have to be quick and not ramble! I suspect a mod was on the loose 😉

    I do love Hurt, but I have a very big itch for young McGann (who, with age, has much more to give). I thought his Doctor was brilliant and better than Eccel. -personally.

    I loved Hurt’s Caligula. Years ago, I allowed the students at both school and uni to watch the entire series of I Claudius. The 16 year old’s were all “this is SO slow” at first and then eventually ended up bringing in MT and then lunch. This was when whole semester’s were dedicated to The Roman Empire. Wonderful.

    Yes, indeed 1984, Tinker Tailor (the more recent film dims in comparison).

    Ah, I thought Autumn was here too. But two nights ago, we still had the air con as it was 24 degrees and yet with a high of 27 by day. 85% humidity. Mushrooms and mould was happily growing in the garden.

    I know this because I shucked off drips and other attachments seeing as the poor garden, dry, half dead and colourless needed desperate TLC. Most people know I’m on quite a lot of pain relief but I do find that getting one’s hands dirty, in the soil and planting something is the best relief of all (something primal and ancient perhaps?). Certainly a feeling of achieving something and hearing people’s comments as they walk past with their dogs cheekily saying “this is looking lovely, can you come and do my garden as well?” always provides a burst of pleasure. But in terms of the ‘seasons’ this is the time to plant the Spring annuals and do some pruning: the petunias, violas and camellias as well as the phlox and pansies are colourful and I even put down tomatoes and variety of lettuces. It’s a nice feeling. I just wish the nights would get cooler.

    The Bureau mentioned that we’d get maybe a month of cold weather (basically 19 degrees during the day occasionally creeping up to 22 degrees) before the heat would erupt again.

    Two more rooms and my house will be fully air-conditioned -my feelings of guilt contributing to global warming have not dissipated, however.

    Now, I watch Whistle and I’ll come to You -I haven’t heard of it (red-faced she admits!).

    Oh yes, that’s right: I was in Canada in Feb/March many years ago and totally unprepared. I had a pair of old worn socks and sneakers. My companion insisted I head off to the local hiking store and invest in decent footwear and I felt considerably better  -though financially poorer 🙂 I imagine it must be very beautiful in the height of Spring.

    Kindest,

    Puro

    crossing fingers this will ‘submit’

    #52046
    Missy @missy

    @puroandson

    Well, it meant ‘boredom when I went to school. Ennui, also means tedium, listlessness and indifference amongst others.

    All right, schools’ over. *grins*

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52047
    Missy @missy

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I second that about Hurt. Don’t forget his Dragon in Merlin.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52048
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @puroandson     I agree totally about Paul McGann! Although, to be a bit fair here, part of my feelings about his Doctor (based on the film and even more on Big Finish) were strongly influenced by the long years of Tennant/Smith, both of whom are considerably younger than I am. I enjoyed many things about Ten and Eleven, but I sometimes found myself thinking wistfully back to a time when the Doctor was older (and sometimes even wiser!). I know that Matt Smith did an outstanding job of playing “old man in a young body”, but it is undeniable that the young body in question could actually be my son. Peter Capaldi has solved this for me, as I can now go back to finding the Doctor likeable and a bit scary at the same time, rather than thinking “Have you eaten today, young man?” or whatever.  🙂  John Hurt is of course an undeniable treasure.

    #52049
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    OMG! You’ve seen Merlin?

    #52050
    Missy @missy

    @puroandson

    I have read and listened to Whistle and I’ll come to you, but never seen it.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52056
    Missy @missy

    @theconsultingdoctor

    Not only have I seen Merlin, I bought the Box Set. Superb!

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52058
    Anonymous @

    @missy

    I think we need to leave the dictionary definitions alone for awhile 🙂

    large concepts are hard to define in a word, as it were! But having said that, PC’s doctor was often indifferent to others. To a ‘T’, imho

    *grins*

    Puro

    #52059
    Anonymous @

    @arbutus

    Oh I totally agree about McGann and Matt Smith -he was terrific as the old man in the youthful body but as you eloquently put it….one’s son. I also think the slight weirdness of the Doctor is as it should be: Tennant was undeniably human -imho and even Smith at times -which was the point. But my first and fav Dr was Pertwee -much like my father, a  bit mischievous, a little authoritarian, old-school, up tight (maybe?) and formal. And yet I adored him. He represented alien to me as did T. Baker so it would make sense that PC’s Doctor is the perfect combo (like a seafood gumbo –yes, I’ve been binging cooking shows and not the good ones either!) for me. Just me. I understand others have opinions about ennui, doctors, favourites, which chocolate is horrible and which is even more disgusting. But it’s a jolly big world and there’s plenty for each of us.

    Of course, that’s not true as the Nut across the sea wants to build a wall to keep the ‘Beaners out’. Oh boy, is this apocryphal or not?

    Still, drifting from this thread a tad 🙂

    #52060
    Missy @missy

    @puroandson

    Agreed! This forum is for fun and fun ideas. What we all agree on is we love the Doctor.

    Cheers,

    Missy

    #52063
    TheDentistOfDavros @thedentistofdavros

    @ichabod

    Sorry for a late reply but I think you summed it up and wrote that very well!

    @missy

    You should definitely give John Hurt’s whistle and I’ll come to you a watch it’s very good! @blenkinsopthebrave is right Hurt is brilliant in it!

    #52077
    ichabod @ichabod

    @mersey   I want to see the Doctor who enjoys being himself. He speaks a lot that he saves people but he failed to save major characters like Clara, Danny, Osgood, Ashildr.

    Well, to be fair, he *did* save Ashildr from death, pretty permanently it seems.  And he did end up working with revived Clara to save her and himself, in Hell Bent, and that worked out as he thought it might, so he’s not done *that* badly.  When he broods and talks about the people he’s “lost”, though it’s not ennui he’s expressing, IMO.  It’s more like being caught up in depression (not the clinical kind, the situational kind I think) about his failures and the nature of his life (being the one still alive while others fall away).  Gloom, guilt, frustration, self-doubt, fear of the future being much like the past . . .

    For contrast, Sherlock Holmes is plagued by a form of ennui — the dullness of days without a worthy challenge, the brilliant mind spinning its wheels and going to waste.  And then there’s the original ennui, the French style of ennui: the waving away of everything as stale, dull, same old/same old, god-not-this-again-what’s-the-bloody-point-of-it-all, which to me has a taint of childish petulance and self-aggrandizing flamboyance to it.  I think Goths — there are still Goths in black leather, chains, and spiky hair, yes? — confuse this with “cool” . . .

    Ah, just rambling.

     

    #52080
    Anonymous @

    @ichabod @missy

    I don’t think the Russian intelligentsia experienced petulant ennui or flamboyance -altho I understand exactly where you’re coming from. There was real and definite separation from society. I feel elements of our Doctor can claim that feeling.  But back to the Russians, there was a coercive bureaucracy, a feeling of repression and sentiments of detachment from the populace and from one’s family  -an autocracy or autocratic family entirely regulated by the state.

    Even Gallifrey didn’t possess the zemstvos that Alexander 11 instituted. The Doctor is discerning, he expresses his dislike of the sense of alienation emerging from the repressive rule of the official bureaucracy. He is a critically thinking personality (Pisarev’s phrase)  who systematically questions all traditional values in the name of social justice. From there and via some retreats and cul de sacs, we find ennui. A good article by one M. Flossman serves for argument in this revelation.

    Having said that, a number of people have written quite ‘loudly’ “no, the Doctor doesn’t experience ennui” so that’s fine: it was simply an opinion and stays that way just for me  <<-_->>

    🙂

    Kindest,

    Puro Solo.

     

    #52083
    ichabod @ichabod

    @puroandson  specifically Puro Solo:  Yeah, you get me, I know.  Thanks for that.  I left the Russians out because they seem to be a special case, also adding in a perfectly understandable and reasonable but painful attitude of frustrated idealistic rationalism, and a particularly raw and persistent tragic sense of life.  From what I’ve read, and seen in Russian films, I sometimes get the sense of an entire nation self-medicating on vodka etc. because the never-ending disappointment is just too much to bear.  It all seems more *active*, somehow, than the word “ennui” can carry — if the resultant urge to destroy self or social order of human failure to be humane dissolves itself in drink?  This is purely an outsider’s view, of course; never been there, myself.

    So I dunno; and ennuie is a good word.  It’s not the same as everything being so damn triste with the French, is it?  Related, but . . . my French isn’t good enough to parse it well, and there’s no reason to inflict it on anybody anyway.

     

    #52084
    ichabod @ichabod

    @dentistofdavros   Thanks, and I do love “Whistle”, which scared the daylights out of me for years after I first encountered it.  Will go find John Hurt’s take — is it a reading, or a teleplay?

    #52085
    Anonymous @

    @ichabod @missy

    yes, I believe “lods od vodka be dwunk” -still, the resultant anguish during the reign of various tsars and the following socialist ‘inspiration’ reveals that diction, ideas, ideals and certain words were expunged from the language and from publication: the film The Lives of Others shows ennui at its most tragic (an example from a more modern era). All autonomous organisations were closed -and this again during tsarist periods and not necessarily during the later expectations of the KGB/FSB etc.

    Any level of dissidence came with varying ennui whether it was the groups best represented by Dmitry Pisarev or the groups led by one Soviet physicist Andrei Sakharov -critical of existing institutions, they were frustrated westerners in rebellion against a decrepit authority: I feel the Doctor would grasp that concept, ennui, what with Gallifreyan ‘high’ society.

    Anyway, back to ze vodka

    <frenzied Russian dance>

    Puro

    #52086
    ichabod @ichabod

    @puroandson  Oh, I agree — you could say that he could be simply running away from the prospect of taking his expected place in that class-dominated society would be explanation enough for his escape in the Tardis.

    “The Lives of Others” is gorgeous, isn’t it.  Wonderful work.

    Maybe do the dance *before* the vodka . . . ?  Health and safety suggestion.

    ichi

     

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