The Tomb of the Cybermen part 4
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This topic contains 10 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by johnnybear 2 years, 3 months ago.
2 November 2013 at 13:48 #19875
The final part. Klieg is intent on controlling the Cybermen and will stop at nothing. Can The Doctor stop both him and the Cybermen?2 November 2013 at 14:18 #19896
I found this documentary on “Tomb” which puts a lot of the story in context, both in terms of script and casting. And it features the great Christopher Frayling who I really admire. The man is just a genius.2 November 2013 at 15:10 #19905Anonymous @
@craig — that’s a terrific little docu. I think Nu-Who is missing a trick by making modern Cybermen so robotic, when the real appeal is that they tap into so many primal and literary horror tropes — from Frankenstein to Mummies and so on…2 November 2013 at 17:12 #19923PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
Note to Cybercontroller – when devising your cunning plan, if you can’t put a switch on the inside to let you get out, at least put the machinery that you are completely reliant on the same side of the door as you. Sorry – went a bit Guardian there.
It’s still a good ending I think, nicely paced. Toberman swinging the Cybercontroller above his head can revitalise memories of Johnny Weissmuller wrestling patently fake crocodiles, but that just adds to its period charm. Lovely performance from Troughton as he tantalises Klieg with visions of his greatness, only to dash them all with “So you are mad! Just wanted to check”.
The theme of the Doctor appealing to the underlying humanity of the converted controlled really starts here, with Toberman willing to sacrifice his life by closing the doors. The sentiment has been echoed a few times since with Next Doctor and Closing Time being prime examples.
Thoroughly enjoyed watching it again.
I’m guessing from the production stamp of 2011 thats one of the additional features for the remastered edition in the Regenerations box set? Very good, with some nice parallels drawn. It hadn’t occurred to me that the Scarab may have been the inspiration for the Cybermat, but I like the idea.
Nice to see Kit Pedler get a mention as well. I read a collection of essays he published when I was a teenager which were interesting reading.2 November 2013 at 18:47 #19928stevethewhistle @steve-thorp
My favourite episode of the story.
Lovely use of psychology by the Doctor, and also his hand signals to Jamie.
I hope that the Doctor is never made infallible in future stories. There is always the the fun of working out what is going to go wrong.
“When I say, ‘run’, RUN!”
😎2 November 2013 at 20:30 #19944Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
Great episode. I agree that it’s nice to see the Doctor getting things wrong however far back you go. Improvise madly and call it a plan has a long history.
It is interesting, given all the complaints about ‘the power of lurve’, to see that defeating Cybermen by using human emotions goes so far back. Also nice to see young Victoria getting a nice dig in at the Captain, after he was such a sexist git last week.
Anyone who thinks ‘The Brotherhood of Logicians’ is a good name is completely mad – the name itself is a give-away that several screws are loose. The documentary was fascinating and explained a lot of the casting – an SF take on ‘Curse of the Mummy’s tomb’.2 November 2013 at 21:40 #19954
@phaseshift Just checked my copy in the Revisitations 3 box set and, yes, you’re right. It is on there. Can’t imagine why I never got round to watching it before.
In fact, I think I’m going to watch the whole of Disc 2 now, as it seems I never have. It also has a cast and crew doc about the making, a history of the Cybermen (looking forward to that), a look at the process that turns found film back into video (I won’t know why that’s important until I watch) and, almost literally the icing on the cake, a Doctor Who themed advert for a new range of ice lollies.
And if anyone liked Christopher Frayling entertainingly spouting great fact after great fact, I would highly recommend any of his commentaries on Sergio Leone’s spaghetti westerns, although the one on the special edition of “Once Upon a Time in The West” is a masterclass on how to do a DVD commentary. Done as only a historian with a great respect for the subject could.
Like me, he loves Leone’s westerns (and Clint Eastwood movies in general). When he was knighted he chose a latin motto that roughly translates as “Go ahead punk, make my day”. He’s an academic who loves popular culture and treats it as important instead of despising it. He’d be very welcome here.2 November 2013 at 22:06 #19959PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
Thanks for that, because I’ve been meaning to UPGRADE to the Revisitations sets at some point. I have all the stories, although 3 Doctors is still a VHS, and my Robots of Death DVD has developed a fault. At the current price, it’s a bargain. I can’t say I’ve listened to any of his commentaries, but I’ve just checked my own copy of Once Upon a Time… and will give it a go. Love the story about his latin motto.4 November 2013 at 18:33 #20031BadWulf @badwulf
Just finished a contract and I now have some free time. Therefore, I thought, what better or more productive way could I spend it than in watching all four parts of TotC back-to-back.
Now, I understand that ,strictly speaking, back-to-back is not in the spirit of this week-by-week episode thread, but I do hope you’ll all forgive me!
A bit of background – I first came across the novelization of this story in the ’80s when I was 11 or 12, and loved it. I was unfamiliar with the 2nd Doctor outside of the Five Doctors story, so it was very interesting to see how he compared with the Doctor I already knew. If my memory serves, in the novel he seemed much more mischievous and avuncular than Davison’s Doctor. I suppose I only had memories of the Cybermen from Earthshock and the 5 Docs, so it didn’t seem out of place to have the post-Invasion Big Ol’ Headphones design of Cyberman on the cover – as far as I was aware, that’s what all Cybermen had ever looked like!
Disappointments – Upon viewing Tomb for the first time, I was struck by how different the set and planetscape were to my imagination. In my mind I had seen a moonscape, with a black sky full of stars, instead of the sunlit Telos daytime of the show. Also, I imagined the tomb’s entrance to be larger and the doors somehow weightier. Also, my imagination made the tomb’s interior far more impressive – dark, foreboding and ancient, as opposed to the swinging ’60s decor of the show. Also aside from the notable exception of Troughton and companions (and Viner), the performances of the actors were no match for the written versions of the characters. On screen, they seemed one-dimensional and underwritten – behaving as cardboard cutouts as opposed to realistic scholars and adventurers with understandable motivations and actions.
Positives – Troughton’s performance was awesome! Of course, @stevethewhistle – I was familiar with the catchphrase “When I say “run”, run!” from the 5 Docs – but it was great to see it in its natural habitat, so to speak. Victoria was much less wussy than I had feared, and Frazer Hines was full of great interactions with Troughton, showing how comfortable he was in the role of Jamie. I was concerned that the Cybermen themselves would be a grave disappointment, but they were better than I had expected (although not quite matching up to my imagination from the novel). The Cybercontroller was truly imposing when compared with Troughton’s diminutive stature. Also, the voices seemed much more cold and emotionless than some of the Davison era Cybermen. @jimthefish – I agree that AG Cybermen have been underwhelming – especially their brainless “Delete” catchphrase which seemed like a redundant retread of the Daleks’ chilling “Exterminate!”
@phaseshift – the appeal to the underlying humanity seemed well used – Toberman could be seen as the dramatic predecessor to Locutus of Borg.
@bluesqueakpip – The power of “lurve” defeating emotionless beings seems appropriate for a ’60s show, but to me it seems unsophisticated for 21st century drama. We’ve moved on from portraying foreigners as conniving traitors and non-white ethnicities as simple servants – perhaps we should also expect more psychological resilience from adversaries. After all, the new Cybermen no longer have the physical weakness to gold that was prevalent in the old series, so weakness continuity is not essential to the species’ character.
@craig – Thank you so much for posting the Curse of the Cybermen’s Tomb video clip – it really makes it clear what the writer was aiming for, and seeing the allusions to ancient Egypt and mummies suddenly gave the story a lot more historical resonance for me.
Conclusion – I really enjoyed the show, and the great performance by Troughton really sold it for me. It was never going to match up to my imagination – but I’m very glad to have seen it.27 November 2013 at 17:24 #21779b.s. @b-s
Hello Dr. Who fans,
This is my first post on this forum. I am looking for some information on an episode of Dr. Who. I’m including a photobucket link to a picture for your reference.
In this picture I am trying to see if the actor is the Second Dr….Patrick Troughton, that is my guess but since it is a photo of the actor’s profile I am not sure. Is this Patrick Troughton?
Also what episode might this be from which particular year (season)?
I would appreciate any information you all may be able to supply.
See this link for the photo: http://s929.photobucket.com/user/wjsiii/story/31539
Thank you kindly!
B.S.3 December 2020 at 08:11 #71207johnnybear @johnnybear
Cybermen as they should be, unlike the versions they put out a few years back! I don’t watch the show any more so no idea about any new ones!
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