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22 May 2013 at 23:45 #10437
Are we talking about a FAQ page for bonkers theories that are still current?
Uh, when I did this last time (long time ago, when JK Rowling hadn’t finished the Harry Potter series; there were a LOT of bonkers theories) – basically what we did was create a page to:
- categorise the main theory heading: Hurt Doctor, Trenzalore, continuity, Clara, etc.
- We listed these headings with an internal link to each section (within the web page), so you could jump straight to the section you wanted.
- Then we gave a one line description of each theory with a link to the original post
Once people were directed to the original post, they could follow the thread through. If there were important posts later on, we’d add links to those.
Dunno if that’s any help…
22 May 2013 at 22:21 #10410@jimthefish – you missed out The Technicolor Time Machine!
A very funny novel about a failed movie director employed by a studio which is about to go bankrupt. Thing is, he knows this mad professor who’s invented a time machine – so he manages to persuade the studio head that they can use the time machine to make a blockbuster historical drama about the Vikings…
22 May 2013 at 14:56 #10347@budinacup – Hi and welcome
Yes, it has been suggested. The problem with the theory that Hartnell nicked the title of ‘The Doctor’ is that the Eleventh Doctor quite firmly says:
He’s me. There’s nobody here but me – that’s the point.
Admittedly he’s saying that to Clara at the time. š So your bonkers theory (all theories here are officially as bonkers as a bathful of fishes) needs to account for the Eleventh claiming Hurt Doctor as ‘me’.
22 May 2013 at 11:46 #10337Maybe, to continueĀ @bluesqueakpipās meta refs theme (I think Iām getting obsessed with this, LOL), the dark Dr represents all the authorised and unauthorised spinoffs ā TV movie(??), BAFs, fanfic etc etc)
I would take the moment when Clara splintered into a thousand lives as the authorised and unauthorised spinoffs š She’s basically the production team, making sure the Doctor survives all his adventures. And during the Interregnum, that ‘team’ was split up – but it kept on saving the Doctor.
Our dark Doctor is (I hope) the pre-production stage of Nu Who – the bit where RTD decides that he’s got to kill off the Time Lords before he can bring the Doctor back. That’s partly why I’m going for ‘a missing Doctor between Eight and Nine’ – the Hurt Doctor would then represent the missing backstory; the Time War and genocide that we’ve been told about but never saw.
Now, if we’re really going to go seriously meta-mad, the next point will be a new Doctor who has the ghost of the Classic Series hanging around, peering over their shoulder. Until the regenerated Nu-Who finally becomes the real, the current ‘Doctor Who’.
Lots of ‘ghosts’ in this part of the series. Maybe Matt Smith isn’t in the Christmas Special as Dark Doctor? Maybe he’s playing The Ghost of Doctors Past?
š
22 May 2013 at 01:07 #10315I’ve just got the ‘no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer’ part of the prophecy.
- The Great Intelligence: never alive in the first place.
- Jenny: temporarily dead.
- River Song: definitely dead.
- The Doctor: standing in front of his own tomb – he’s a ‘ghost’.
- Clara: being … whatever Clara is.
They might as well have said: “Can anyone here who isn’t dead please put their hand up?”
(I think only Madame Vastra makes it through the entire episode alive)
š
22 May 2013 at 00:47 #10313I think the Silence are going to be very confusedā¦!
@scaryb – not half as confused as I was after writing that post! š
22 May 2013 at 00:05 #10309Hmmm… well, if Uncle Tom Cobbley and all can get inside the Doctor’s timestream if they visit his tomb…
At the moment, if the Doctor had died before Trenzalore, that would’ve meant no one was able to get inside his timestream. He got cremated at Lake Silencio. No tomb.
So either the Silence are a mirror to the Hurt Doctor – doing terrible things for what they believe is a good reason – or they know that, in going into his own time-stream, the Doctor is about to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat which means that Silence will Fall.
21 May 2013 at 21:53 #10263Iād still like to know why that regeneration caused so much chaos in the TARDIS.
@jimthefish – all may become apparent at the 50th, but my current guess is that – since the John Hurt Doctor – the Doctors have been considerably more scared of regeneration than they used to be. They now know, deep in their bones, that what comes out of a regeneration might not be ‘The Doctor’.
21 May 2013 at 16:09 #10215Ā Fragmented Clara changed something in the past so the Doctor now barely recalls the GI.Ā And that appears to be a not-good thing.
@Shazzbot More likely the GI changed something, and whatever Clara changed back meant that the Doctor barely realised he’d been fighting the GI during the Yeti’s in the Underground – because if she didn’t change that memory, it would disrupt the time-line even further.
@satsumajoe – they picked that particular reference very carefully indeed – the Doctor’s meeting with the Great Intelligence in the Underground was also his first meeting with one Colonel Alastair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart. It’s one adventure he’s unlikely to ever forget.
21 May 2013 at 14:01 #10198Oh, and we may now know part of the reason for the Tenth’s shock on learning that River knows his name: if the Gallfreyan custom is that the name that locks your tomb is the birth-name, not the use-name – he knows he trusted River enough to make sure he was buried properly.
He told an archaeologist the password to one of the most famous tombs in the universe. š
21 May 2013 at 13:19 #10185He dies there in a future battle and we donāt know when that will be or what regeneration he will be on.
@thommck: it’s kind of a ‘wait until the 50th’ discussion – but I’d point out that Trenzalore has been very specifically described in previous episodes as
The Fall of the Eleventh
And the TARDIS monument still has the crack in the window that it just got from crashing onto Trenzalore.
So I’m gonna say that – to go along with my ‘Clara is the Doctor’ bonkers theory – Eleven is the last of the Classic Doctors. That’s the real reason Clara is the Impossible Girl; she’s the Doctor who is never supposed to happen; the regeneration that will never be born.
We’re in the Eleventh Hour. And time can be changed. š
21 May 2013 at 13:05 #10183@phaseshift – any allegations that the Whispermen are a ripoff of the Gentlemen can only be made if the poster hasn’t watched Hush for years. The Gentlemen a) steal people’s voices b) float above the ground c) don’t talk at all, let alone in rhyming couplets (the creepy rhyme is sung by a little girl) c) physically rip people’s hearts out to collect them and d) are wearing the costume of a modern undertaker, not Victorian dress.
21 May 2013 at 12:39 #10173My understanding of a āfixed pointā is that it has to be fixed for the desirable future to happen. If itās changed, a different future happens.Ā
@scaryb – not what we were shown in The Wedding of River Song; what we were shown there was that, if a fixed point is changed, the resulting changes are so huge that Time itself starts to collapse. Change a fixed point and there is NO future.
Whereas changing the Doctor’s past is indeed the It’s a Wonderful Life scenario. There’ll be a future – it’ll just be a terrible future.
The Doctor’s an agent of change – he is not, in himself, a fixed point.
21 May 2013 at 12:33 #10171meaning the GI & Clara-Splitz were always around.
No. I honestly don’t see how they can be always around. We’ve already seen that they weren’t always around, because we’ve already seen two versions of the same events.
We see Clara-mirror first in Asylum. We see Dalek survivors from Exillon. We KNOW there were no Dalek survivors from Exillon; that’s canon. But now that Clara’s here – there are.
We see Clara-mirror next in The Snowmen (though frankly, I’m still pretty convinced JLC’s been doing most of the uncredited computer voice-overs in S7.1). We KNOW the Doctor has met the Great Intelligence before – but he doesn’t remember one of his most important adventures. We were also told how Sexy left her door open for the Doctor – but now he gets persuaded into the TARDIS by Clara. No wonder Sexy doesn’t like Clara; she’s subtly changed the relationship with her ‘thief’.
So time is being changed from our continuity. The continuity of the last 50 years no longer applies.
As to the other questions: I’d say Clara repairs the damage done by the GI to the Doctor’s timeline, and that the Doctor’s timeline was only supposed to reach to last Saturday. There are only Eleven Doctors (and John Hurt, Doctor Zero). The Eleventh Doctor was supposed to die at Trenzalore – it was the ‘Fall of the Eleventh’. And they didn’t just mean a falling TARDIS, or a regeneration. It was where the Doctor finally fell.
Which makes the John Hurt Doctor a past Doctor.
21 May 2013 at 10:22 #10160given Old Sexy said she chose him, that would imply a change from tDW or Clara is linked to the Tardis somehow.
@WhoHarGiven that Moffat both scripted this episode and script-edited Gaiman’s episode, I’d presume that the TARDIS scene was included here to show us that the battles between the GI and Clara changed continuity. It no longer exists; even the continuity of S6 has been changed. We have now seen on-screen continuity be changed.
@davemorris316 – you may be correct that you can’t change time in our physics, but this is the Whoniverse. If you like, our physics isn’t up to the standards of the Time Lords. The most basic law of Time Lord physics is:
Time can be changed.
While there are certain fixed points in the Doctor’s life, points where changing them will cause the breakdown of time itself, most of his life isn’t a fixed point. How do we know that? Ā Because the GI (an external force) could change the history of his life. Clara (who may be an internal force) could then repair it – but sometimes she had to change what originally happened to get things back to what should have happened.
In some cases we’ll have watched the repairs (Dragonfire). In other cases (The Doctor’s Wife) we were told the original version – and it’s now changed. In still other cases (Asylum of the Daleks) we watched the original (no Daleks survived Exillon in Death to the Daleks) and then saw the change (Clara is present in Asylum, and Dalek survivors of Exillon are also present).
21 May 2013 at 09:51 #10157but Susan coining the acronym is canon
@lula and @Shazzbot – ever since we found out that the Time Lords also call them tardis’s, I’ve presumed that Susan made up the acronym in English. She invented the English language name for a TARDIS. The acronym only makes sense in English anyway.
So the name of the Doctor’s ship is the TARDIS – and when people speak Gallifreyan we hear their name for their time machines translated as ‘tardis’. Because that’s what the English word means: the word ‘tardis’ in the Oxford English Dictionary means:
1a time machine.
2a building or container that is larger inside than it appears to be from outside.
21 May 2013 at 09:39 #10156Or maybe it was a continuity error.
@mtgradwell – or maybe the Eleventh is the Final Doctor. š
His introduction is in an episode entitled ‘The Eleventh Hour’. He’s Eleven, yes, and this is his ‘hour’. But The Eleventh Hour is also the last possible moment to avert disaster.
Eleven is the last of the Classic Doctors. Unless they manage to pull off an ‘eleventh hour’ re-boot.
20 May 2013 at 22:42 #10118Only trouble is, Clara seems toĀ be assumingĀ the Doctor isĀ kind of herĀ boyfriend at theĀ moment.
@juniperfish – well, putting it with my ‘Clara is the Doctor’ theory, when you’re between relationships (which both Clara and the Doctor are), you do tend to end up spending … err… rather a lot of, shall we say, quality timeĀ with yourself. š³
I’d get me coat, except that the evidence is that this is precisely the sort of joke Steven Moffat’s evil mind would enjoy. š
20 May 2013 at 22:31 #10116Ā knows him from his own past?Ā Iād wager the latter
So would I, because back in Amy’s Choice we saw the Dream Lord – a manifestation of the Dark Doctor. To date, everything that Leadworth – sorry, Upper Leadworth – dream predicted has come true.
John Hurt’s Dark Doctor is so tightly locked away in the Doctor’s head, he can only come out in dreams. Or when part of his brain has been taken over by something like the Cyberplanner?
20 May 2013 at 15:53 #10043@Shazzbot – oh, yeah, he’s trying to make a joke. But there’s a truth behind the joke; he never gets to retire. Heck, he can’t even take two kids and his girlfriend on a day out without it turning into a death-defying battle against the Cybermen.
Children have been a theme throughout Steven Moffat’s tenure; if you remember, in Journey Clara is taken by the TARDIS to see – an empty cradle. And an Encyclopedia Gallifreya where the words we can hear suggest she’s just knocked over the section on children.
Who is ever going to replace The Doctor? He’s the Last of the Time Lords. Sherlock Holmes, Moffat cheekily reminds us, got Ā to retire. But without The Doctor, the stars will go out.
And he didn’t start out this way. Before the Time War, he had back up. Now there’s just him.
20 May 2013 at 15:00 #10028@Shazzbot – no, because in this story, facing his own death, he comments
Always thought, maybe I’d retire. Take up watercolours, or beekeeping or something.
And later in the episode he’s referred to as ‘the old man’.
Back in Cold War the Professor (who’s the Doctor’s mirror for that story) says:
It’s a young man’s game, all this dashing about.
I think we are getting to the end of this cycle of the Doctor’s life; he’s old, he feels old, he’s a widower and he’s starting to think vaguely about retirement. Did retire, in fact, in The Snowmen – but Madame Vastra, Jenny and Strax knew it was for the wrong reasons, so they managed to pull him out of it.
Because he can’t retire. He has a duty. ‘The Doctor’ is a promise. And there are no children to hand the name onto, no-one who can take on the name of ‘The Doctor’.
He killed them all.
20 May 2013 at 14:47 #10023@Shazzbot – and now we know why the Doctor ‘doesn’t like endings’.
He never gets the one he really wants:
and they lived happily ever after.
20 May 2013 at 14:30 #10015She doesnāt seem to care about him very much
@fivefaces – if she moved down to London to go to university and he’s still working up in Blackpool; it’s not that she doesn’t care about him very much, it’s just that most of her contact with him will be on the phone.
And she can phone him from the TARDIS – if you’re living four hours drive away from Dad, travelling to another galaxy in a ship that can get you back to Blackpool in ten minutes isn’t that big a deal.
They used the phone call to show that Clara and her Dad are still in contact, but the implication is that he’s told her to live her life, go to new places, do what your Mum always wanted you to do. Don’t stay at home just to look after your Dad.
20 May 2013 at 14:20 #10011Ā is really a ClaraFragment rather than ClaraPrime as I had thoughtĀ
@badwulf – no. We see little Clara’s mother, and it’s the same actress who plays Ellie Ravenwood Oswald in Rings. Plus, this little Clara Oswald has a heavy Lancashire accent, as does her mum.
But I do wonder if Clara Prime is … Clara Prime. She’s certainly the Clara who jumps into the time-stream – but she was already imprinted with ‘save the Doctor’ before she did that.
Very wibbly-wobbly.
20 May 2013 at 14:11 #10009Iām guessing that the question of āwho is Clara?ā has now, to all intents and purposes, been wrapped up
@fivefaces: Don’t think so. I was wondering if it was just me – unwilling to abandon a bonkers theory. But then my brother (who watches the show quite happily, but isn’t a Whovian) asked me what I thought of Saturday’s ending, because he felt that Clara’s story had just ended on a cliffhanger.
So I think we’ve been watching Part One (Part Two being the 50th Anniversary Special), and Part One wraps up why Clara is the Impossible Girl. The question of who the Impossible Girl really is: well, that’s for the 50th.
20 May 2013 at 11:19 #9987Also Ecclestone appears to have been approached to take part and McGann was a bit vague about his participation or non-participation in the 50th.
@chickenelly – I wonder if they both filmed regeneration sequences? McGann never got a regeneration ‘out’ and Eccleston never got a regeneration ‘in’. If we’re going to place Hurt’s Doctor correctly, it would be nice to have a short scene where, say, the McGann Doctor gets fatally injured and regenerates into Hurt, and then – at the end of the story – Hurt regenerates into Eccleston.
I don’t think Eccleston wants to reprise the part, but he might have been willing to do his regeneration ‘in’.
20 May 2013 at 09:51 #9975@whohar – good call, though in my defence things did get a little bruising over there. There were a couple of moments when I had to delete the post I was about to send.
š
20 May 2013 at 00:39 #9942@scaryb – funnily enough, I’ve just replied to asgill about Genesis of the Daleks. Which he thinks is a “in a completely different league to anything since 2005: it’s a masterpiece of intrigue and dramatic tension played at the level of high quality theatre.”
I’d agree that Michael Wisher was damn good as Davros, but if he thinks the whole thing is high quality theatre, he obviously doesn’t get to see really high quality theatre. :- D
And in fact, Genesis is one of those stories that went up in people’s appreciation because of repeats and video. It wasn’t that well liked at the time; a fan favourite rather than an audience favourite.
19 May 2013 at 23:33 #9929Now that you mention it, is this why Clara had to become āthe generalā in NiS?Ā So the audience had a chance to see her in charge, making decisions and taking control?Ā And is this what the āyouāre the boss / Iām the bossā business was in CH?
@Shazzbot: I certainly did wonder – very much. She was playing what would normally be the Doctor’s role. Taking charge of the fight.
I think the ‘I’m the boss’ was a little joke; the writers are, after all, supposed to be the ones in charge of The Doctor – not the other way round. š
19 May 2013 at 23:02 #9923@rema – Sara Jane Adventures. Female lead who was in her fifties, and one of CBBC’s most popular programmes. It had an audience of both boys and girls.
I would expect the suits to be deeply nervous; if Clara is the Doctor that’s why JLC is being carefully introduced long in advance of any regeneration. I would be deeply nervous; we know there’s a section of fandom who would be very loudly against a female Doctor.
But the reason most of your little girls don’t bring in Doctor Who lunch boxes and toys is very simple; they know they can’t be the Doctor. Even in the show, Amy knew she couldn’t be the Doctor – she had Rory dress up as the Doctor, even though, in personality, Amy is a much closer match. Rory, you see, was a boy.
For SJA they had the female lead, and two boys (and another girl) as the sidekicks. It wasn’t a big problem. The only reason it’s currently a problem is that the Classic Doctors were all male, and it takes a bit of imagination to realise that there’s no real reason an alien can’t regenerate as female. Given the way gender roles have changed within my lifetime, I would imagine that we’d probably be wondering what all the fuss was about within a year or two of the first female Doctor Ā (providing she’s a good enough actress).
Strax probably wouldn’t even realise the Doctor’s gender had changed. š
19 May 2013 at 22:47 #9917@davemorris316 – yay, another convert to ‘Clara is the Doctor’. Good spots.
Yes, that she’s his future is a fully established bonkers theory. That’s why she can survive his timeline. Whether she is actually ‘him’ – that is, this Clara, Clara Prime has physical continuity with him – or whether the Clara we know is not Clara Prime at all, but an echo of his future self – remains to be seen.
One thing I’d point out is that Clara’s ‘Impossible Girl’ status does not explain why Jenna Louise Coleman and Matt Smith are often mirroring each other physically. It’s particularly noticeable in the Crimson Horror.
The other is that the audience is encouraged to believe that River is jealous of Clara because Madame Vastra and Jenny assume that she will be. But we don’t see River being jealous; we do see her being uncomfortable – and we also see her trying to establish where Clara is in her timeline; the question about ‘the Doctor must have talked about me’ is designed to see if Clara has yet reached the point in her timeline where she knows perfectly well who River is.
19 May 2013 at 16:41 #9844Oh, yes, I’m fairly sure Hurt is the Time War Doctor. Especially given the number of times in this part of the series that Eleven (still calling him that – after all, it’s what he calls himself) goes for ‘the nuclear option’. The Mutally Assured Destruction option. And then there’s Mrs Gillyflower – the ‘mirror Doctor’ who was ‘the wrong hands’.
This is the Doctor who changed the madcap wanderer into an ex-soldier.
19 May 2013 at 14:16 #9816NOTHING needs to be canon any more
@scaryb – indeed. We’ve just seen canon blown apart. It didn’t happen that way in the Original Show? There weren’t any Dalek Survivors of Exxilon? Well, there are now. The GI and/or Clara rewrote it.
This is Moffat’s gift to the future producers; canon is now whatever they want it to be.
Dunno about ‘Clara Prime’ (not my idea, btw – don’t know who suggested that) – but I think we should now start calling the Production Team ‘Clara’ for short. š
19 May 2013 at 09:19 #9728@inigo – while I’d love to give some ‘Clara has extra knowledge’ answer, I suspect it’s simply because Clara doesn’t believe in ghosts. And for someone who’s dead, River is being quite chatty.
š
19 May 2013 at 09:17 #9727is Smith the last or is it just her favourite design?
Smith is the last; the Eleventh Doctor quite clearly said that the timeline was his past, present and future – but we saw twelve and only twelve incarnations. If the clocks in The Eleventh Hour aren’t red herrings, the Doctor only gets to Twelve.
And then resets to ‘1’.
The Eleventh is also the only incarnation to date to have expressed a wish to retire to the incarnation of his scriptwriters.
š
19 May 2013 at 08:43 #9722Why is he presented as āThe Doctorā ?
1. Because ‘John Hurt appearing as Bluntwin Hootwhistle’ would have the entire audience going ‘Huh? Who’s Bluntwin Hootwhistle?’
2. Because ‘John Hurt appearing as The Person Formerly Known As And To Be Known Again As The Doctor’ would have needed very tiny type on the credits and his agent wouldn’t allow it.
3. More seriously: because the only person who doesn’t see the John Hurt incarnation as ‘The Doctor’ is The Doctor himself.
š
19 May 2013 at 08:36 #9719Occurred to me overnight that Clara may be Moffat’s answer to all the ‘Mary Sue’ complaints about River Song.
Because Clara is what a (well-written) Mary Sue looks like.
Female, check
Talented in an implausibly wide number of areas, check.
No personality beyond that amazing awesomeness, check.
Highly persuasive, check.
The Doctor is overwhelmed with admiration for her wit, courage and beauty (though he won’t admit it), check.
Smarter than the main character, check.
Keeps rescuing the main character, check.
Has an especially close relationship with the central character – check. She’s his damn writer.
Oh, and finally: inserted herself into the story.
š
19 May 2013 at 01:08 #9682@phaseshift. Nope. Actually, part of my post will be riffing off your idea that little Amelia represents us; the Children Who Waited.
19 May 2013 at 00:47 #9679@craig or @phaseshift – could someone enable my username to make a blog post? I’d like to post something on The Eleventh Hour. Thanks
19 May 2013 at 00:44 #9677I kind of hope bluesqueakpipās musings on why thatās wrong are true though.
So do I; remember this was the first part of this episode.
We finally got the two-parter we’ve been begging for all series: and now we’ve got to wait six months for Part Two.Ā Oh, well, at least Part Two is ninety minutes long. š
18 May 2013 at 23:50 #9670Just realised: William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton, Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, Peter Davison, Richard Hurndall (as the First), Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Paul McGann, Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant, Matt Smith – and now John Hurt.
(And I did that from memory. Phew!)
John Hurt will be the thirteenth actor to take the role of ‘The Doctor’ in the official television continuity. So they’ve cast him as ‘The Unlucky Doctor’. š
18 May 2013 at 23:19 #9663@juniperfish – Clara’s definitely not ordinary, is she? I mean, beyond leaping into time streams. And River does seem to have an ‘it’s you’ reaction; as if she still knows certain spoilers.
18 May 2013 at 23:09 #9661@satsumajoe – yeah, that’s another funny thing. The Doctor has never (until this episode) mentioned River since the beginning of The Snowmen – and later says that it hurts too much for him to acknowledge her existence.
So when did he tell Clara about her? It wasn’t on-screen.
Clara could have been politely lying, of course, (probably was) but then she says ‘I never realised you were a woman’. Later she’s talking to the Doctor as if he’s never told her about River. ‘So who was she? The lady with the funny name and the space hair.’
So Clara associates the name ‘Professor Song’ with someone of the opposite sex to her.
18 May 2013 at 22:53 #9657@topperofgallifrey – most people, I think. And welcome!
18 May 2013 at 22:52 #9655So, are we temporarily dubbing John Hurt The Nth Doctor?
18 May 2013 at 22:21 #9645So – I reckon the bonkers theory that Clara is a double bluff is still a goer. In fact, even my bonkers theory that Clara is a future Doctor is still a goer. š
Of course, all this could be caused by her ‘impossible’ nature leaking back into the Original Clara but:
If you are still entertaining the idea that you are an exception to this rule, ask yourself one question: what is his name.
Clara knows the Doctor’s birth name. The TARDIS made sure she knows it. Why? She has no need to know it. But the TARDIS sees her as ‘an exception to this rule’.
The telepathic circuits are awakening memories you shouldn’t even have.
But she has them. Hidden – but she remembers everything about Journey ttCotT. The TARDIS also made sure she saw the History of the Time War.
And then River says:
If she’s really dead, how can I still be here?
There are two people throughout who always see and hear the dead River. One is Clara, the other is the Doctor.
Both the Doctor and Clara can survive going into the Doctor’s own time-stream.
And finally:
There’s only me here. That’s the point.
š
18 May 2013 at 20:34 #9597@craig – even if Hurt is technically The Ninth Doctor – whatever he did led to later Doctors considering him ‘Not The Doctor’.
So, yeah, he’s the Zero Doctor. Not-Ninth or Before The First? Six months to wait before we find out. Ā šĀ
18 May 2013 at 20:23 #9590Ā Has there only been 11 different incarnations of The Doctor?
@morbius: Well, we just discovered that the answer to that is a big, fat ‘No’.
Ah, that was the game-changer. Okay, Mr Moffat, you didn’t quite lie. Eleven isn’t Eleven. Has never been Eleven. (And Nine and Ten weren’t Nine and Ten, either). Ā Which means the game has changed – he’s Twelve. And in The Eleventh Hour, when the clock finally gets to 12, right at the end of the episode – it resets to 1.
18 May 2013 at 20:06 #9580why lie about reviling his name when didnāt get told it
@dtrex – his name is ‘The Doctor’. That’s the name he chose. That’s his true name. The story isn’t about revealing the birth name of Ā ‘The Doctor’ Ā – it’s about the importance of being able to live up to The Name of The Doctor.
So, is the John Hurt Doctor @juniperfish‘s Ā ‘Dark Doctor’? š
18 May 2013 at 19:51 #9566Well, that was fun (though a couple of cherished bonkers theories hit the dust). It feels like it needs a rewatch.
So John Hurt’s the Doctor? Well, that’s great, awesome, every superlative ever – but I wouldn’t rate it as a ‘game-changer’. Unless Eleven is only the Eleventh ‘Doctor’? Which ‘life’ is he on really? Twelve? Or Thirteen?
And why was the Great Intelligence saying that his future is still dark and horrible. And we got the Valeyard!
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