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I really think RTD has given us another excellent episode, and one of the darkest in the history of  Who.
@blenkinsopthebrave

Hahaha. Seems like we didn’t agree after all!

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Okay, that was both both powerful and utterly depressing.

@blenkinsopthebrave Yes I agree, though not sure whether for the same reasons, except perhaps it’s left me slightly nonplussed too.

My feeling at end was that I’d been hit with a hammer, or two. I went with the whole social media satire but was quickly bored of it. There’s making the point that the whole world of it IS utterly tiresome and unlikeable and annoying, but doing that doesn’t lead to good drama or engagement.

Rather disappointed that it was Doctor lite again. But then I look for character and it’s the character/nature of the Doctor that I find most engaging about the show. Ruby carried 73 Yards really well but an irritating two dimensional character (even tho deliberate) can’t do that. And didn’t it take away from the effect of the double blow at the end that everyone was already loathsome? It still had impact, but it felt a bit contrived and tacked on, maybe?

One thought, tho: down in the tunnel I noticed a door with a green triangle on it, like the Playstation triangle. Maybe a suggestion that this whole thing was a game, not just an artificial world? Organic* is that me looking for a thread to tug on that might lead to the Toymaker again?

Sorry to be down on it, but it felt a bit easy somehow, and after the last two weeks’ grippers I felt pushed back into my sofa again.

*Must confess I quite like that or always gets corrected to organic!

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@juniperfish

Super thoughts! 👏

Yes to the Doctor/Mad Jack-Ap Gwilym swap, very perceptive. All the doubling and binaries now to think of, perhaps even more than appears? A kind of Upside Down, then, a Mirroring, as you say. Or perhaps things overlaid, swapped out. Mirroring retains both images, whereas this is replacement?

Also yes to Mad Jack as the spirit of Wales – though aligning Welsh rebellion and fascism could be seen as problematic! But okay, he is Mad apparently, and a fairy – are the fey evil, then? (I wish not.)

I’m a little uneasy about the scrolls though. Why RIP if the desire is to have Mad Jack back – surely there would have been something to invoke him instead? And I miss you… If that was connected to Ruby, was it a message for her? As you suggest, it could be from all those she misses, an articulation of her own thought as it were. Or it could literally be a message from the fairy circle maker to her.

I love that RTD is so determined to address the terrifying resurgence of fascism in our times through his drama.

I couldn’t agree more! That and any environmental urgency are all that matters. I worked my way through the whole of 2005 onwards just recently, having seen much of it live but also not all, and the most striking thing is how breathtakingly politicised and ballsy RTD and Moffat were. It felt like they wouldn’t have gotten away with some of it today (sadly, shamefully, frighteningly), so to see them both so far unafraid is hopeful and rallying.

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>For the first time, Ruby feels she recognizes the hiker played by Susan Twist. “Haven’t I seen you before?” or words to that effect. That also acknowledges that Ruby has previously seen Susan Twist’s face. (I know that it has been argued that while we, the audience, have seen the same face multiple times, that Ruby was never in actual eye contact in previous episodes.) This question by Ruby belies that argument. But as for what it means, or where it is leading, I no idea.

@blenkinsopthebrave

Well I think you’re right, didn’t she see the face of the ambulance in Boom?

I suppose if nothing else it means Susan Twist is a spy or a time traveller? But whether benevolent or malevolent who knows.

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@juniperfish

Great analysis.

 a time-line which leads to the bi-generation of the Fourteenth Doctor in The Giggle (a metaphor for divergence in time) 

Love that.

Also love the fairy speculation re Ruby. So maybe it’s not that her mother rejected her (that would be a human assumption) but that her mother is fey, and took a human baby in exchange for her changeling child?

In which case, who is the human baby?

The Harbinger???

But also… I noticed how deeply the Doctor gazed at Lulubelle in Church Ruby Road, as though he could see into her nature. Is she another changeling? Or given that she and baby Ruby were interchangeable for the Goblins, are they somehow interchangeable in another way too?

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Best ep so far, the balance of old timey wimey and new supernatural spot on. Dark, scary and then oooohhh, yes, we shouldn’t fear it.

Should we?

Love it, and next week looks a great contrast too.

Questioning: was Mrs Flood being disingenuous when she commented ‘nothing to do with me’?! Or  was it just that this one really wasn’t her doing (implying others events ARE)?! She’s my favourite…

Also, what’s so scary about Ruby, then? And without the Doctor, is she destined to be alone and abandoned her entire life? Which sounds familiar…

The plot’s thickening so quick the Spoon’s standing up on it’s own. Lovely!

 

 

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hmmm your avatar has recalled Stooky Sue from The Giggle for me, in relation to all three of your speculations about the return of the Doctor’s granddaughter.

@juniperfish

Coincidence?

Actually it’s Stooky Peg, from Night Terrors. But let’s face it, dolls are all cut from the same creepy bit of wood (and therefore sonic proof and likely to crop up and cause much bother).

Yes, yes and yes, those progeny are proliferating! What fun…

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Bringing my Susan/Flood musings from the Boom pages, to get things in their proper place.

Not sure about Mrs Flood (…) but I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up just being an indomitable elderly side character a la Wilf. (Unless, of course, she is the series 1 main villain — in which case, she might be Bad Wilf. Arf.)

@jimthefish

Absolutely she is the villain, there wasn’t a frisson of a guest star all the way through Whitdoc/Chibnall!

@brewski, your arguments for her not being (Twisted) Susan are logical and sound, but having just watched the ep again I’m convinced Mrs Flood’s whole performance is exactly that – and almost pantomime turn. So take nothing she says or does at face value, barring the line (delivered with edge) You take care.

Of course, evil may be in the eye of the beholder! 👹

Truthfully I’m not convinced myself she’s Susan, but she’s definitely a trickster.

Meanwhile, interested here in the ID of Ruby’s mother (or at least the woman walking away, who may not be the mother) and her shoes… Watching now I see River, albeit skinnier, maybe not the same walk. But what really struck me was that from his look and the fact he doesn’t shout out or follow her, the Doctor knows her and has deep feelings for her.

So more and more I think Ruby is his daughter.

 

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All the companions left behind, which hasn’t been properly resolved, even by Fourteen, surely? Maybe the One Who Waits isn’t just one person, and maybe there’s a big old guilt trip coming to get the Doctor, just when they think they’ve got away from all that!

Oh, all the abandoned children, presumably, too. Which would tie in with Space Babies (a phrase oft repeated in that ep, and which all the Doctor’s children would technically be) and the Dad theme in Boom.

Which would also go with the whole Toymaker/Maestro fantasy, bent reality tripping, kids make-believe feel etc? Disney on acid.

I do hope so, anyway!🤞 Surely RTD has that kind of edge and viciousness? That makes me happier with the musical elements, if I think they’re used to negotiate a black theme. That’s what musicals do best, show us our rottenness by awful contrast.

Sorry, will shut up now!

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@brewski

Oh, I remember reading your flights of fancy now! All the better for their ‘wrongness’, right? 👍 Apologies, I don’t retain anything beyond the next adventure (other than some odd detail that probably means nothing and the general mood), so I’m going to study Flood and ponder.

Also have difficulty with more than one conversation at a time so I’ll be like one of the more annoying companions 🙃 Better try to stay quiet most of the time and run when instructed!

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@mudlark @brewski

Yes, I guess CAF would be the obv choice for an older Susan, although at time of casting/planning it may not have been so clearcut or possible? It’s sometimes hard to keep a glove on the real life shenanigans and timeframes, always remembering it’s a fabrication we’re dealing with! Ahem.

I don’t think Susan Twist is Susan though. I have a feeling she’s a false herring in many ways, and that her name is the most significant thing about her – IE: there’s a twist to do with Susan. If anything, I think she may be a puppet of sorts, seeing as she’s replicated across the series in different costumes. I think you’re right that it’s going to come down to the devilry of the Toymaker and his ilk.

I’m now just thinking about Amy waiting too, so little girls, abandoned… I think angry is right. All the companions left behind, which hasn’t been properly resolved, even by Fourteen, surely? Maybe the One Who Waits isn’t just one person, and maybe there’s a big old guilt trip coming to get the Doctor, just when they think they’ve got away from all that!

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Really enjoyed Boom, and watched it live having just watched it on iPlayer. Having previously tried watching Space Babies over (and falling at the first appearance of the babies), it says everything that I want to see Boom for a third time already.

It’s thankfully reassured me about Gatwa, too, as my jury was out. I got the charisma and joy from the first few episodes but of course was waiting to see him deliver more shades. Loved his handling of the contempt he showed over Mundy’s ideas of faith. But then Moffat gifted him the words (at last). And ideas! Hallelujah!

Eyes tight shut going please, please, please open the big box of whooo. Not about going back so much as giving Gatwa the hand-me-down toys and seeing him take them apart to make new, strange delights.

 

 

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I’m going on record as saying “The One Who Waits” is Susan.  (“One day I shall come back.  Yes, I shall come back.”)  When, old man, when?!!

@brewski

I’m going to agree. All kinds of twisted things could have happened…

I’m also going to suggest that Mrs. Flood is Susan, not least for the very superficial reason that Anita Dobson looks just like the young version, and if I were going to cast someone she’d be IT!

Plus they can’t waste having a national treasure by not having her play against type as the villain?! Come on, the twinkle…

Flood being another version not of a river but an oncoming storm.

 

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@scaryb

Ohhh, good link! More grist to the Susan speculations then.

And then there’s the John Smith link too!

All this gives me great hope that things won’t be as simple as they seem on the surface of the first episodes, and that RTD hasn’t lost his playful edge.

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So if the One Who Waits is almost here, is Christmas going to happen in summer? Which would be the right kind of havoc. (Tho actually not so far from reality…)

@ps1l0v3y0u

SLC has to mean something, agreed.
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@craig

I got the exact same shot! Thanks.

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Hello everyone. Just joined but been reading a while, having needed therapy to get me through the Chibnell years, which I’ve only just caught up with.

Still thinking about the new episodes, but I have a niggle about the billboard shot at the end of TDC, where Doctor and Ruby are on the roof, just before the musical number. The board advertised a new record by “Chris Waites”.

It’s so prominent. (I took a screenshot but don’t know how to upload it, maybe someone else can wiz that?)

So there’s something about the big bad unknown ‘waiting’…? Maestro’s parting shot, “The One Who Waits is almost here.”

Shades of Bad Wolf?

 

 

 

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