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@janetteb

Not sure about tracking down the movie.  I have a DVD copy from when it was still available to purchase.

But here is the clip I was referring to.

It’s magical.

 

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@janetteb

Thanks for that news. It would, indeed, be wonderful to see them. I don’t know if you are familiar with “The Smallest Show on Earth, a lovely comedy from the 1950s about a tiny cinema struggling to survive, that starred  Margaret Rutherford And Peter Sellars, among others. There is a wonderful scene where they are watching a clip from an old silent romance while Margaret Rutherford plays the Wurlitzer. It is a magical scene. Your  story of the missing episodes evoked a similar feeling in me.

 

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what if…

Was sitting with Mrs Blenkinsop–each of us with a glass of wine, discussing alternative directions Who might have taken (eg, imagine Doctor River Song…or Doctor Ruth..). But then we started talking about show runners, andMrs Blenkinsop came up with a brilliant insight….who has managed to kill off the show? First it was John Nathan Turner. And most recently, it was Russell T. Davies.

Conclusion? Never allow someone with three names to be a show runner!

 

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@winston

Fabulous news!

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Well, I seem to have been absent for a while. Life…sometimes it gets in the way. Hello again to all (particularly @syzygy)

Was just re-watching the recent colourized   version of “The War Games”–the last Troughton story and the first that introduced the Time Lords. And what a problematic group of authoritarian guardians they are. No wonder the Doctor ran away.

The colourized version is done very well indeed. Except for the conclusion. But I will leave that for others who have seen it to comment on.

p.s. it is It is great to be back.

 

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It appears I have been MIA. Guilty as charged. Good to see the site is still thriving. Came across this (and hope it has not already been posted).

Ford Talks Cut “Doctor Who” Finale Scene

 

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Been gone a while (real life got in the way) but back with news from the BBC

BBC Remains Committed To “Doctor Who”

Of course, saying that “the TARDIS is going nowhere” lends itself to multiple readings.

 

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I have put this in the Spoiler thread as there is no news from the BBC yet.

New “Doctor Who” Could Be Five Years Off

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@winston

That was a lovely description of Canada. I moved here (from Australia) about 12 years ago, although my wife (who is Canadian) and I met and married in Australia. But after visiting here (with her) about 25 years ago, I fell in love with the place. It took a while, but we finally made it. And I cannot think of a better place to be.

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@winston, @nerys and all, just awoken from celebrating Canada Day. I was drinking a very nice red wine and wearing my very best white shirt, and therefore “showing the colours”. @whohar, you are always welcome back! As for the importance of Canada to “Doctor Who”, let’s not forget that the show was created by Sydney Newman, who was of, course, Canadian!

 

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@mraem, @ps1l0v3y0u

I am assuming Ben meant ten years ago in his own past, so the 1950s. I could not place it, but here is a likely list:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls051021435/

I was also wondering why any Hollywood movie clip would be hanging around in the BBC vault.

 

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The future of Who…

Like @whohar, I think it will be off our screens for at least two years.Perhaps more. Perhaps a lot more. RTD2 would seem to have managed what only JNT had previously achieved: to put the nail into the coffin of a well-beloved show. The fact that that it was RTD (the first iteration) who successfully revived the show makes it particularly ironic.

As for the UNIT spin-off about the Sea Devils, I suspect it go the way of Torchwood.

But actual Doctor Who?

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No spoilers, but no good news.

Davies: “Doctor Who” Fate Still Uncertain

 

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@whohar

Sorry that I missed your post on Billie Piper as the Tardis. It must have been a second glass of wine scan on my part…

But, also champion bonkerizing!

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@miapatrick

could Piper be the Tardis?

That is an inspired idea! I opens up all sorts of possibilities for how the new Doctor deals with their new found appearance, character, etc.

Champion bonkerizing!

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@whohar

Vincent and the Doctor. What a brilliant, brilliant show that was. And for all the reasons you point out. As you say , chalk and cheese compared to the current iteration.

 

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Thought I would post here, as The Winchester is supposed to be for non-Who discussion. It seems to have transgressed it original rationale.

Last  night we watched the only 3 surviving episodes of “The Dalek’s Master Plan” with the Hartnell Doctor (episodes 2, 5 and 10). The companions are Peter Purves as Steven and…Jean Marsh as Sarah Kingdom! These three episodes are the only surviving episodes to feature her as Sarah Kingdom.

Anyway, what I was struck by was how morally dark it was for what was still a children’s show in 1965. A lot of it revolves around the politics of Earth in the year 4000, and the grim death toll is not limited to the behaviour of the Daleks. There is also an appearance by an actor who would go on to play a different and very important character in subsequent Who.

Highly recommended if you can find it. We watched it on our “Lost in Time ” dvd, which is what it sounds like–surviving episodes from the days when the BBC would wipe them after screening. Not sure if they can be found elsewhere.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u

“introducing Billie Piper”

How can you introduce an actor that everyone knows from past Who?

A strange use of the word “introduce”. Seemingly, it only make sense if you read it as “introducing Billie Piper as …well, somebody or other…”

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I have been thinking (over-thinking?) about Poppy and the question of whether we are in a world of reality or not at the end.

@mudlark, the final paragraph of your most recent post was excellent (as always) and helped me clarify my questions regarding the issue. But I am still grappling with it.

Then I started thinking about how  fiction vs reality has been tackled before — by Moffat, in “Amy’s Choice”. Upper Ledworth. Was Rory really a doctor or still a nurse? Who was the Dream Lord, played by the incomparable Toby Jones? Like this finale, it was about making a choice. Amy made a choice there, and Belinda made a choice here. But Moffat seemed to carry it off with style in a concise way that was so different (and superior in my opinion) to the bloated approach of RTD2.

 

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@scaryb

Murky- do you mean top 5 since thE Gatwa Doctor, or from all of Who?

If it is from all of Who  then the top of my list would probably be the six part Troughton story-“The Web of Fear”. It was a stellar example of murky and gritty.

And–unfortunately–they don’t make them like that any more.

 

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@thane16

I liked the murky, dirty spaceships, the grim worlds, where everything seemed off kilter and cold.

@ps1lOv3y0u

I do miss the gritty old prosaic Who.

Yes! I am in agreement with both of you. I suppose we are missing the 20th century – the world we grew up in.

But at least I have my DVD collection of gritty old prosaic Who in the basement.

 

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@scaryb

Couldn’t’ help but wonder why UNIT’s defences only face one way!

Absolutely! And the scene where Kate turns the wheel and the entire top of the building tries to turn…

Of course, it gave her something to do, rather than (like her father) shouting out orders.

I should add that that scene was one of the reasons I enjoyed the episode!

 

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Well, by and large, I thought it was pretty enjoyable. I am sorry I did not get to see it at the cinema, as it had a real cinematic feel to it. As it went on-and it did go on for quite some time, I was starting to wonder if it was going to compete with Wagner’s Ring cycle in both length and operatic delivery.

There were some things I had questions about. When the Rani appeared there seemed to be an awful lot of exposition (sorry, @juniperfish). And the Rani was dispatched a trifle too early perhaps. At the end, I was really hoping the awful Conrad would get his just deserts, but he didn’t. And I was hoping that Ruby would have a strong farewell with the Doctor, but that was all saved up for Belinda. Pity. I thought Ruby’s character deserved a bit more.

Poppy. Is she a TL or not? That explanation seemed to change back and forth quite a bit. Perhaps that was RTD2 providing himself a bit of wiggle room for the future.  And I  am still confused by the whole question of time shifting just marginally.

I really liked the  appearance of Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor (even if RTD2 had done it to prepare us for another female Doctor). JW shone in her short scene.

So, overall, I thought it was a rip roaring episode that was lots of fun to watch. And if the Disney connection (and money) dries up for the next season, RTD used it up in an enjoyably spectacular way in this finale.

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My Friday prediction for tomorrow’s episode:

As “The Three Doctors” required all 3 Doctors (Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee) to defeat Omega, RTD2 decides to spend his Disney budget by finding a way to have all 15 Doctors present to defeat the Rani and banish Omega. And at the conclusion all 15 Doctors form a conga line, waving to the audience as they ascend to the own individual Tardis.

Nah…at the last minute in the writer’s room RTD2 decides that would be too subtle.

 

 

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@mudlark

Re: midges, Mrs Blenkinsop reminded me of this love poem which she used to teach back in the day, by Anthony Hecht.

 

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As we approach the final episode, I have only one wish:

That Conrad is not redeemed.

 

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@mudlark

The one thing I found slightly disorienting was when Belinda tells the Rani (after turning her head to look at the Rani): “My battle is in there, saving my daughter”. And the next shot is of Belinda holding Poppy in the gold  coloured box. It gave me the impression that Belinda was both outside the box and inside the box.

p.s. I hope your hospital appointment went smoothly. I find fare too many of them in my calendar these days.

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@whisht

“Poppy is real”

I still have this lingering feeling that Poppy might be a Timelord, crazy as that sounds. How else to explain her appearance in “Space Babies” and, briefly, in Lagos?

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A few thoughts on Poppy. The Doctor shouts out to the Rani “Poppy is real! Don’t you know what that means!?” Well, I have been trying to make sense of that. Not sure I have cracked it, and apologies if I am repeating what has already been said, but:

Did the Doctor and Belinda actually have a child? If so, is Poppy a Timelord? If so, could Poppy travel in space and time in some timey-wimey sort of way to be in “Space Babies” where she declares that she is the Captain of the ship, and also be in Lagos to direct Belinda to the barber shop?

Time for a calming cup of tea…

 

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BBC Trailer

 

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Mrs Blenkinsop and I just finished watching all four episodes. Tremendously enjoyable. Also, tremendously hokey. But was the latter necessary to ensure the former…? Somehow, I suspect it was.

What insight did it provide to the Rani’s plan to bring back Omega on Saturday? Perhaps it confirms @pufferfish‘s brilliant assessment of the current Rani as dumbass.

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@nerys

I think the appearance of the Tardis with the Jo Martin Doctor was simply an egregious mistake on the part of Chibbers. One of many.

Will hold off on a more detailed response, as the annual marathon in my town that starts and concludes about a block from where I live is coming to its conclusion, and the ones coming in last are the ones getting the loudest cheers and applause, which is as it should be.

 

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Still processing this one. In all sorts of ways we are definitely in the land of fairy tales, with a wicked witch, the seventh son of the seventh son, a baby with magical powers, etc.

Poppy is clearly of great importance. She was there in “Space Babies, she was there briefly at the end of “The Story and the Engine” and now she is here, as the child of the Doctor and Belinda. As the Doctor, his memory coming back, shouts at the Rani: “Poppy is real! Don’t you see what that means!?”

I think those are the words, but need to re-watch it.

I liked the meta element, in that the the TV show itself was woven into Conrad’s story.

However, beyond shouting back at Conrad: “I don’t accept your reality”, I think I need to think about it a bit more. So, back after the second glass of wine…

 

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@whohar, are your amazing powers of prediction the result of that very long time you once spent in the bath?

(you have to have been on this site from the time @craig set it up to make sense of the above sentence.)

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@whisht

I really hope Belinda is not ‘special’.

As do I. If you recall, the Doctor scanned her DNA, so unless he was lying through his teeth, we can hope that she is regular Belinda.

p.s. Mrs Blenkinsop and I watched the very first Who story “An Unearthly Child” last night. It was brilliant. It brought back memories for me of watching it as a nipper all those years ago. It was also a masterclass on how to captivate an audience with a minuscule budget.

 

 

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@whohar

Brilliant!

Whatever actually happens cannot be as stupendously excellent as what you have outlined.

Are you available to take up the position as the next Showrunner?

You certainly have my vote.

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I may have mentioned this book previously, but I was just reading this news today

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/billy-proctor-heart-of-the-raincoast-dies-at-90-10678357

When Mrs Blenkinsop and I first visited over 20 years ago, we were walking around the inner harbour of the main city late one evening, and heard a bubbling sound.We looked over the edge of the walkway into the water, and there was a baby seal. We decided then and there that this was where we wanted to live. It took us a while, but we finally moved here 10 years ago.

Like the baby seal, the story of Billy Proctor captures what is special about the place and why it needs to be protected.

p.s. I totally agree with Billly’s attitude to shorts…

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Came across this.

“Doctor Who” Team Plans Two More Seasons

As a lot of it is conjecture, I think this is the best place for it, as is any discussion.

 

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@whohar

I don’t think Belinda is Susan’s daughter. In last week’s episode she mentioned to the Doctor that her nan took her to visit India, so she could get a sense of her heritage. But what I find interesting about Belinda is she only ever refers to her parents. Not to friends, not to co-workers, not to relationships (let’s pass over the problematic Al). Why just the parents?

you could see where the Disney money was spent.

I confess that to thinking the large amount of money RTD2 has access to is more of a problem than an enabling factor. Could an episode involving rebels seeking revenge against the  colonialist destruction of a people’s culture and population have been done with minimal expenditure? Of course it could.

To use just one example, towards the end, the Hellian singer is given the opportunity to sing her inspiring song that was banned by the Corporation. Think of the scene in “Casablanca” with Humphrey Bogart, where the singer in the bar breaks into La Marseillaise in front of the German officers and everyone in the bar sings with her, in tears of of pride. How much did Casablanca cost to make, I wonder? Certainly not as much as this episode. Which will continue to be remembered?

 

 

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First impressions: mixed feelings on this one.

The Doctor turns vicious, Susan appears (in order to call him back from the dark place he is inhabiting?). Well, OK, I suppose.

Hellion psycho tries to murder the audience, but not the Corporation ( poor Freddie Fox is in danger of being typecast if you recall him in Slow Horses).

We are still in a Mavity world where Time Lords bi-generate. Indeed, there seem to be a lot of Time Lords milling around , when the Doctor claims he is the last of his kind.

I suppose we will have to wait for the next episode to see where all this is leading. But that means I will have to watch the appalling Conrad again.

As I say, mixed feelings.

 

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The Unholy Trinity. Well, given the new Disney connection, what about Huey, Dewey and Louie?

OK, perhaps not.

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@mudlark

A wonderfully informative reflection on the episode.

I was unaware of the connection to the story of Sheherazade, for example. Thank you.

 

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@mudlark

without being wildly OTT,

We are talking about RTD2, of course.

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Very much enjoyed my second viewing. It is, as I said after my first viewing, it is a story about forgiveness and redemption.  As the embittered archivist/storyteller says at the end, “I don’t deserve your kindness” and I am tempted to agree with him. But, as Belinda says “hurt people hurt people”. And there has to be a way of stopping that cycle.

Does it plant seeds for the theme that seems to be emerging  about fiction vs reality? Prhaps only in the sense that it highlights the importance of stories. What else is “Doctor Who” after all?

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@ps1l0v3yOu

It’s a kid show. We’re overthinking it.

But it’s not a kid’s show anymore.  The last show runner who was capable of pitching it to both kids and adults was Moffat. And that’s part of the problem. Throwing in a giant mechanical spider in outer space doesn’t mean that kids can make anymore sense of a bunch of adults telling stories and/or arguing with each other in a barber shop than than those of us on this thread.

I suspect that the problem lies, not with us overthinking it, but with RTD2 overthinking it.

As you noted above:

Then there is the child…

She was unsettling when she showed herself to Belinda and then promptly disappeared.

Why a child? What point was RTD2 trying to make? B*ggered if I know.

 

 

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Well, having decided that understanding this episode was a three pipe problem, I found a pipe and discovered that pipe tobacco is simply appaling.Nonetheless, even though my health is now irretrievably ruined, here are my reflections.

At an obvious level, it is a story about  a story about forgiveness and redemption. And it does that quite well. The interaction of the characters at the end captures that.

As to the central focus on the power (and necessity) of telling stories, I liked it, and also saw it through an RTD2 lens. what I mean by that is that when reference was mad to gods I kept thinking of goblins and trickers (which RTD2 began this series with). In old Who it was all about flesh and blood aliens (and their mechanical creations, but with RTD2 it is about goblins and tricksters.

More thoughts when the  awful effects of the three pipes where off.

p.s. Doctor Ruth?

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As Sherlock Holmes would have said: This is a three pipe problem.

Back after I have found a pipe…

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@whohar

Actually, I would be a little disappointed if Conrad turns out to be a boring anti-vaxxer.  God of Untruth sounds much more cool.

 

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@mudlark

Re: your question of what made the small child Conrad into the exremely unpleasant and exploitative adult, a different question popped into my head.  Why is no one on Earth (except the employees of UNIT) aware of the existence  of the Doctor? We have been watching this fictional show for 60 years about a population that never seems to remember the Doctor, or the carnage caused by the Daleks, the Cybermen, and upteen others. Now, 60 years later, there is a gigantic headquarters of UNIT in the center of London and yet there still seems to be a collective ignorance of  the existence of the Doctor.

Contemplating  that question makes me wonder if Conrad is not a human at all.

And also, that it is directly related to the the upcoming question of fiction v. reality.

So when Conrad says to the Doctor “I refuse to accept your reality”, that might not be an unpleasant human speaking.

Mind you, on the question of memory, I have reached that stage of life where I have trouble remembering what I had for dinner last night…

 

 

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@dwnerdfrommars

Could Conrad be a strange version of the master?

Yes, he might well be. Given his behaviour, he has all the personaliy traits. And he knew about the Tardis, having seen it de-materialize when he was spying on Ruby.

In a way, I would like him to be a strange version of the Master, just so I could see him defeated by the Doctor, given how appalling he was to Ruby.

 

 

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