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3 July 2024 at 20:04 #76689
Just to add to the politics chat. I don’t see a coalition in the offing and think it’s pretty certain that Starmer has got it in the bag. Here in Scotland, I’m not so sure. I’m hoping for an SNP resurgence or for them to at least see off the threat of the buffoons and time-servers in SLAB.
But really, I think the last word should go to 12.
16 June 2024 at 20:15 #76332That figure at the console looks very like Harriet Arbinger to me (am I the only one less than impressed by UNIT’s recruitment screening process? Next we’ll find out that Dave Ross and Maurice Aster are also working there.)
And orange cloaks … lots of suggestiveness there. Prydonian chapter of the Academy and wasn’t the Timeless Child clad in orange. (Also the Doc has worn rather a lot of orange this series.) And Horus/Osiris being the Sun God would suggest that his people might wear sun-like orange. (Or they could just be masons, I suppose.)
16 June 2024 at 20:08 #76330Hello all. Sorry I’ve been AWOL the past week or so — the continued craziness of this general election has been keeping me from the truly important matters … like this. That said, I didn’t really have much to say about Rogue, except that I loved it a lot. Nice to have another Captain Jack figure in the mix — particularly one this time who is remotely likeable and can actually act.
The Sutekh reveal was really rather satisfying even if I didn’t find myself massively surprised. Given the mythic turn of this series, it could only have been him really (although as a friend pointed out, Azal would also have worked nicely.) Quite liked the way that RTD worked in the allusions to The Satan Pit, especially with both villains being voiced by Gabriel Woolf. I wonder if he had that in mind all along.
In general though, a gripping episode although a little bit of an identikit RTD first part of a finale. Quite reminiscent of both Army of Ghosts and End of Time I. And going by that track record, I reckon we’ll see an epic battle and then the sacrifice of a main character being exiled to an unreachable dimension (Ruby presumably). Other predictions, Ruby is going to be her own mother somehow or that hood will drop to reveal Carole Anne Ford (all those Susan references have been too loaded with significance to merely be trolling surely.)
I shall also feel rather short-changed if we don’t get any bandage-wrapped Servo Robots in the finale.
5 June 2024 at 12:21 #76071Not much to add to all that’s been written above except that I thought it was another cracker and at the very least should be applauded for having a bit more confidence and righteous anger that I don’t think Chibs managed to muster. I was at first a bit dubious about the ep, feeling it was a bit Black Mirror-lite and going for rather easy targets but once I realised where RTD was really going with it that it really became another piece of really quite ground-breaking Who…
27 May 2024 at 14:31 #75912First of all, sorry to hear about your troubles, @devilishrobby, and glad to hear that you’re on the mend now. Get well soon.
In terms of the episode, a bit late to this party so I’ve really nothing to add the insightful comments above so will just say that this was another absolute corker — RTD’s best Who episode in my opinion. As others have said, there’s lots of echoes of previous episodes in here — the pub scenes had the same paranoic chamber scene vibe as Midnight and the second half of the episode definitely went down a Turn Left (not to mention Years and Years vibe). But there was also an almost Moffat-era feeling to some of it as well. Once we got to the Old Ruby stuff, I was reminded a little of Last Christmas.
I’d also definitely agree there seems to be an alternate timelines theme emerging and I’ll be very interested in seeing where that goes. Could it be that it’s a consequence of the bi-generation? Put it this way, I wouldn’t be massively surprised if 14 made an appearance at the finale.
The only other thing I’d say is that the NMDs’ moaning about ratings and the imminent death of the show are way, way off (aren’t they always?) For my money, this is shaping up to be one of the best series of Nu Who, despite its truncated run. Maybe not s5 or s10 brilliant but it’s definitely up there. Certainly it’s just as strong, if not stronger than, the first series of the reboot all those years ago.
Talking of which, it’s starting to flabber my ghast that it will be nu-Who’s 20th anniversary next year. That strikes me as quite incredible and it basically makes this story the State of Decay (ish) to Rose’s Unearthly Child.
23 May 2024 at 21:59 #75839You’re quite right. My apologies @juniperfish. Surprisingly fast moving thread this one…. and thanks for the Sargent info. It’s almost certain that the 2000ad artists of that period would know the works you refer to and would be more than eager to reference them in their work, I reckon….
22 May 2024 at 20:39 #75830oh and cheers, @scaryb for the link to that Moffat/RTD interview. That was really interesting. Could listen to that two rabbit on about Who for hours….
22 May 2024 at 20:25 #75829Back to Boom – interesting image from the first scene, which is at the head of this page – a blinded (and blindfolded) soldier stumbling around with a big gun. Very metaphorical. It also reminds me of something but I can’t think what yet… It does put me in mind of the art from 1980s 2000 AD – particularly Ezquerra, Brian Bolland. Especially the gun, but there’s also something about the blindfold.
That crossed my mind too. I’m having vague recollections of a Rogue Trooper story maybe. (Wolfweed would know.)
Has anyone come any closer to ‘the moon and the President’s Wife’?
I may be misremembering but isn’t that a callback to 12 and Missy?
20 May 2024 at 14:16 #75805Well, that was an absolute cracker. Once again, The Moff has come up with the goods. Interesting that some feel it was a piece of second-tier Moff as while it maybe wasn’t in the Blink/Listen/Heaven Sent strata, it was still above the Beast Below/Let’s Kill Hitler tier. Mind you, I’m not one to talk, having been dismissing the recent RTDs as second tier myself.
Certainly, like the RTD episodes there’s an element of ‘greatest hits’ going on here. As others have said above, there’s a lot of Moffatisms in there — the obvious Genesis of the Daleks reference but also elements of Oxygen (again, interesting how it keeps cropping up. Could it be we’ve found another one of Who’s slow classics?), the Magician/Witch two-parter, the s5 Angels two-parter with the military clerics but I was mostly reminded of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. But part of me also wonders if this was Moffat’s riposte to Ker-Blaam! with the similarity to the title and with the critique of late-stage war-fuelled capitalism in contrast to Ker-Blaam!’s ‘hey kids, capitalism is a good and necessary thing so just be thankful for yer McJobs).
I get why some might have issues with the ending but I didn’t really mind it. I also get why some might feel RTD doesn’t bring the subtlety in the same way that Moff does but I think that’s slightly unfair. Space Babies and The Devil’s Chord are, I suspect, analogous to Series 1 from Rose to World War Three — slightly more lightweight, rompy stories to break the audience in gently before things take a tonal shift with Dalek onwards. If RTD relies on sentiment and spectacle (which I think he does a lot of the time), Moffat is more driven by emotion and ideas. But RTD can dial the sentiment down when he needs to, as well as dial the darkness up. The two of them together kind of make the ideal showrunner and I do wonder (hope?) that maybe Moffat will step up to the plate again if and when RTD wants a break.
But Moffat certainly seems to have a good handle on this Doctor and on Ruby (who’s really coming into her own now I think, although she does still feel a little like a Rose/Clara hybrid sometimes). We certainly seem to be leaning into the companion as mysterious enigma thing again which feels a bit done to death but I’m still suspecting something of a misdirect. But Gibson was great in this episode while Ncuti was absolutely spectacular. Forcing him to stand still for most of the episode was a genius move and allowed us (and him) to focus on his considerable acting chops rather than his kinetic energy. This episode really did seem to have his first genuine I’m the Doctor moments. On the surface he might still seem a bit of a Tennant-type Doctor but the controlled rage he brought to some of his interactions with Mundy felt very Capaldi-esque.
And on the subject of Mundy, have we now met next series’ companion already? I was very much reminded of Journey Blue from Into the Dalek by her character and she did feel at the time like a potential but unexplored companion. Does make me wonder what kind of long game is planned for Series 2.
All in all, a nice chewy episode which made me realise how much Moffat brought to the table (it seems no one quite fuels the bonkerising on these forums as much as he does).
14 May 2024 at 12:59 #75707@juniperfish — that’s really interesting about the Xena episode. I never knew about that at all. Must check it out. I think @mudlark is spot on that OMWF (and presumably the Xena episode) have their songs deeply integrated into the narrative. Not sure The Devil’s Chord manages that — The Twist at the End number could and really should have leaned into that more. But like the Goblin Song in Church on Ruby Road, the songs are merely m’ok, which is fine. No one expects Davies/Gold (I’m assuming those are the songwriting credits) to be Rogers and Hammerstein or anything. Like @juniperfish, I’m not sure I could handle a musical number every episode but I actually don’t mind the occasional one and I think that Who in its current iteration can accommodate it (it would have been wildly out of place in the Hinchcliffe era tho, for example). And the Gatwa and Gibson clearly have the talent so why not utilise it, I say.
I also think I’d agree with the comments above that both these episodes just seem slightly undercooked writing-wise and could have benefited from just one more draft or even just a moment’s further reflection for them to really sparkle. But over all, while these eps haven’t really blown me away I’ve enjoyed them quite a bit and they do at least feel wholeheartedly like Who, which I could never really say with utter conviction about the Chibs era.
oh, and never mind the methane, the sheer incandescent rage of the NMD broflakes on Twitter/YouTube could probably propel a space station on a five-year voyage….)
13 May 2024 at 16:46 #75692well, that was … interesting…
My main take-away from this was that RTD still hasn’t gotten over really, really wanting to be Joss Whedon but still not quite managing it. It’s seemed for years now that a musical episode of Who would always be on the cards and I always wondered how Who would be able to rationalise it and I guess this current fairy tale/fantasy iteration seems the best suited for it. But this episode seems to go out of its way to invite comparison with Once More With Feeling and is doomed to come up short in almost every way. (Which I guess is unsurprising because OMWF probably has to stand as one of the tightest pieces of TV dramatic writing ever.)
So we have Maestro, who is incredibly similar to Sweet (from OMWF) crossed with Beetlejuice and is a pretty energetic and entertaining antagonist. A great performance from Jinkx Monsoon who makes the last few iterations of the Master look positively minimalist by comparison. Though I’m beginning to suspect that guest stars are probably going to feel that they’ll have to up their game when appearing opposite Gatwa. He’s surely got to be the Doctor with most powerful on-screen presence since the first Baker.
My main problem, I suppose, is that the songs, including the finale one, are just … not that good. I found myself admiring the ambition of the episode rather than tapping my foot along. (Mind you, I didn’t think the supposedly ‘bad’ Beatles song we had in the episode was all that bad — not compared to, say, some of the drivel of the bona fide Beatles later years.)
The other problem is that the narrative as a whole is kind of flat. We pretty much know all we need to know about Maestro as an antagonist even before the opening credits have rolled. Anything we learn after is merely detail so there’s no sense of mystery or rising tension to the story — just a series of set pieces between the Doc/Ruby and Maestro. And for an episode as mould-breaking as this one, it was starting to get a bit samey by the end.
And in terms of niggles, let’s also have a shout-out for some of the worst casting for the Beatles in living memory.
But as an episode, it was once again second-tier RTD. Quite fun, quite maddening in places but probably not going to be all that memorable in the long run. It did kind of remind me of The Idiot Lantern but mostly I think it’s following the template for the first half of Eccleston’s series in its romping, unserious nature. And, of course, that series also stepped up a gear in its second half in terms of seriousness. And with this series more truncated run, I suspect that’s what I think will be needed shortly so I have high hopes for The Moff’s upcoming episode.
The Chibs era felt to me like it was channelling Davison a lot of the time and if that stands then this era is currently feeling a lot like early McCoy (and maybe the references to the Pantheon is kind of reminiscent of the Gods of Ragnarok). It has the same twinkling absurdity to it that Seven had before he became the dark manipulator and I do definitely get a Seven/Ace vibe off the 15 and Ruby which is nice after the chemistry-free zone that was 13 and The Fam. And maybe we’re being lulled into a false sense of security here and that we’re about to be hit with something a lot darker going forward.
As to Susan. I know there’s legions out there who really want to see her again but just to reiterate I’m really not bothered if we do. I’m struggling to see what the point would be and the only upside would be that it would at least get it over with. In fact, after Chibs’s shenanigans I’d be quite happy to have a moratorium on the return of old companions. Sarah Jane aside, I’ve found it to be a largely depressing experience when they’ve shown up. I’d like to see the building of some new mythologies rather than retreading old ones.
13 May 2024 at 13:37 #75687And good point, @juniperfish and @scaryb —
I’d say Daleks are almost certainly NB. Ditto Cybermen. Not to mention Sontarans, Time Lords, Alpha Centauri and so on. I think it’s safe to say that the Whoniverse is and always was pretty genderfluid in its outlook.
And as to the young uns being confused by a ‘man in a dress’ … I suspect centuries of traditional pantomime might have inured them to that. Besides, it’s my experience that they’re probably finding the question of why some grown-ups are so twisted with intolerance much more vexing…
13 May 2024 at 13:31 #75686ah, I see @scaryb has got there before me….
13 May 2024 at 13:30 #75685hmm, I see we have an incursion from the tedious culture warrior brigade. Just to echo @craig if you want to contribute then make sure it’s an actual contribution and not the usual tired word salad of Clarksonisms. Plus make sure it respects the community etiquette guidelines.
Full thoughts later but just to chip in on the billboard controversy. This on Threads from the mighty Pete Angelhides…
11 May 2024 at 19:45 #75626hello all. Good to be back.
I didn’t mind this tbh. Pretty much 2nd tier RTD but with him mining quite a lot from the Moffatt era. Elements of Oxygen and Sleep No More and maybe even a hint of The Beast Below and it does look like we might be getting a re-run of Amy’s phantom pregnancy storyline — although that’s maybe what we’re supposed to think. So, fluffy and a bit silly but Ncuti is great already and Ruby for the moment feels like a hybrid of Rose and Amy (which even seems echoed in her name).
But season (and especially era) openers are strange creatures and while it’s no Eleventh Hour or Deep Breath, I’d probably still rate it over New Earth or Smith and Jones. Certainly it’s miles above RTD-era travesties like Love and Monsters or The Idiot’s Lantern. And in some ways, I suspect it’ll age better than those stories because I think it can and will be read as a playful parody of the space station sub-genre of the base-under-siege Who trope.
I’m not sure I could handle a whole series at this timbre but as a statement of intent that we are embarking on an era that has a far greater emphasis on Fun I think it worked fine. And I’m willing to bet right now that the series finale will see us standing in the snow outside that church in Ruby Road.
27 December 2023 at 21:02 #75167Well, I thought that was very good, although again it did feel just in places like RTD was raiding both his own and other showrunners’ greatest hits — not that that’s necessarily a bad thing. The Goblin King impaled on the church spire kinda reminded me of Deep Breath and Ruby Sunday really did remind me of Impossible Girl-era Clara a lot. And Ncuti was great and has the makings of an iconic Doctor imo (although his costume, while not at the level of atrocity that Jodie was forced to wear, doesn’t strike me as quite Doctor-ey enough but maybe this is just something I have to get over.) But he’s bringing an exuberance that I don’t think we’ve seen in a Doctor before.
I also enjoyed the lurch into the realms of pure fantasy though and I wouldn’t mind if this continues into Series 1 proper. It’ll make a nice change from the more superficially science-y Whoniverse that imo had become rather small. Just as long as it doesn’t go too Harry Potter.
Not sure about Mrs Flood but I think she might be a total misdirect. I don’t think it’s the Rani (tho I’m bemused by why on Earth anyone would want the Rani back. She was rubbish, an 80s equivalent to Professor Zaroff imo. I always assumed it was a strategy by the broflakes to head off the threat of a female Master but now that ship’s well and truly sailed, I can’t imagine there’s too many fans that genuinely miss her all that much.) Ditto Susan. As @blenkinsopthebrave says, there’s a major time jump to be taken into account and I’m personally not sure what’s to be gained by bringing her back. The TARDIS comment is foxing me but I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up just being an indomitable elderly side character a la Wilf. (Unless, of course, she is the series 1 main villain — in which case, she might be Bad Wilf. Arf.)
But I hope it’s not too controversial to say that I’ve never really found RTD’s Xmas specials all that entertaining and that Moffatt and even Chibs did them a bit better but I’d say that this was one of the better ones.
And, yes, @blenkinsopthebrave, I agree that The Five Doctors is a highly overrated abomination. There’s a certain guilty pleasure to be had in seeing old faces give it one last turn — Troughton gets one last chance to be great before the godawful Two Doctors. But it gives no explanation for Susan (I’d have liked to have seen her give One a piece of her mind — ‘Listen, you old sod, what was the idea leaving me in that hellhole? Eh? Eh?), it needlessly ruins Borusa and has the kind of DEM resolution that goes unremarked by the same sort of nitwits who used to have Twitter meltdowns on a weekly basis if such things even suggested themselves during the Moffatt years.
17 December 2023 at 17:27 #75053Posted on behalf of @theunknowndoctor —
FAN COMIC: The Unknown Doctor Issue No 1
Hi I’m honored to be the creator and writer for The Unknown Doctor. A 100% unofficial series. Along with the brilliant artists at D9 Comics.
https://d9comics.com/blogs/online-comics/the-unknown-doctor-issue-1
I hope you enjoy it.
Please feel free to reply
15 December 2023 at 15:42 #75029Great post and really interesting to get some of the Marvel background too. Hadn’t realised just how impactful and widely disseminated Star Beast actually was. Certainly I’d say that I’d consider those early Who strips (of which I think this is the best, closely followed by the later Tides of Time) had more of an impact on me than the actual TV stories of the time. And, yes, Sharon was definitely ground-breaking for the time. You can see echoes of Ace, both Roses and Bill Potts in her, I think. And kudos to Pat Mills for that and I guess Sharon was informed by his near-contemporary work on Misty. (If anyone’s interested, it’s definitely worth signing up to Pat Mills’s substack where he gives a lot of fascinating detail on various aspects of his career, including recently his various works on Who.)
And yes, the question of class in Who is a vexed one and which we seem to have tossed around a lot on this site. Is Ace really the first credibly three-dimensional depiction of the working class on screen? I’m struggling to think of an earlier one and if that’s the case then that’s positively shameful, especially given the pointers offered by Mills here.
I suspect the class issue is also why the Time Lords and Gallifrey are so problematic for the current show too — to the point that they have to keep destroying them/it or readjusting the lore to distance the Doctor from them. In pretty much every Classic story they’re a plummy, white, mostly male (literally) closed society that’s clearly based on Oxbridge, Westminster and British intelligence. In the late 60s and early 70s from a socio-cultural perspective this seemed almost natural but even by the 80s it was looking creaky and questionable — which I guess is why we see Six in such an adversarial position towards them after the catty but essentially friendly dispositions of the previous Doctors. And it certainly doesn’t fly 2005 onwards. It’s just that the respective showrunners haven’t quite figured out the best approach to take — hence RTD literally kicking the can down the road, Moffat berating the Doctor for being ‘officer class’ and Chibs rewriting the Doctor’s lineage completely. I suspect that we won’t hear a peep about Gallifrey for much of Gatwa’s run, given the full reset he seems to being given. (Although if The One Who Waits turns out to be Omega then that could be embarrassingly wrong.)
I’m not sure if there’s ever been a definitive collation of Eccleston’s grievances but as far as I can gather it’s largely down to the internecine and ruthless nature of BBC politics (reading between the lines of The Writer’s Tale, I always kind of got the impression that RTD had the potential to be kind of ruthless) but also I believe there was a sense of hierarchy on set with those at the bottom of the ladder (I think catering were mentioned someplace) being treated really, really badly. That sounds like the sort of thing that would get up Eccleston’s nose and I can’t say I blame him. Plus given what we now know about John Barrowman’s antics (not to mention Noel Clarke), there might be a sense of grievance if senior management were perceived to be protecting them.
13 December 2023 at 20:03 #75005Glad you’re enjoying the blog.
Baker’s Who often really reflected on questions of power. It was just, very often, rather more implicit than explicit about it.
Yep, I think that’s totally hitting the nail on the head. His era (or at least pre-s18) is about the destructive arrogance of power rather than the social structures of that power (which I think you could argue Hartnell through to Pertwee were all more concerned with in their own way). From Davros, to both the Master and the Time Lords in Assassin, Sutekh, Harrison Chase, Magnus Greel, I’m not sure there’s an era that had quite as many straight-out megalomaniacs as the Baker years.
13 December 2023 at 13:54 #74999And the crappy news just keeps coming. Seem to remember we’ve had Homicide discussions here in the past so here’s the terrible news that the mighty talent of Andre Braugher has passed away. It seems everyone associates him with Brooklyn 911 these days but he’ll always be Frank Pembleton to me….
12 December 2023 at 20:24 #74993And just to add to the cards analysis, note the cards featured in this promo image
12 December 2023 at 13:25 #74980Yep, watched this last night and it’s very much channeling Labyrinth – but as that’s a favourite film of mine of got no problems with that. I guess what RTD is going for is the ‘Big Xmas movie’ vibe now that all the traditional Xmas tropes have been played out. It definitely reminds me of the ‘Dance, Magic, Dance’ sequence in Labyrinth.
I wonder though if we can take it as a statement on the future direction of the show (bearing in mind that RTD has said they’re going in a more fantasy direction now). I can see the wisdom in that, actually. As has often been discussed on these hallowed pages, the ‘science’ part of the SF in Who has often been dramatically overstated and it has much more fantasy in its creative DNA. And after 15 years maybe RTD feels that the hard SF tropes are getting a bit played out and leaning into a more fantasy direction will lessen the reliance on them and of endlessly recycling the Who back catalogue (although I’m sure there’ll still be a lot of that.)
12 December 2023 at 13:25 #74979Yep, watched this last night and it’s very much channeling Labyrinth – but as that’s a favourite film of mine of got no problems with that. I guess what RTD is going for is the ‘Big Xmas movie’ vibe now that all the traditional Xmas tropes have been played out. It definitely reminds me of the ‘Dance, Magic, Dance’ sequence in Labyrinth.
I wonder though if we can take it as a statement on the future direction of the show (bearing in mind that RTD has said they’re going in a more fantasy direction now). I can see the wisdom in that, actually. As has often been discussed on these hallowed pages, the ‘science’ part of the SF in Who has often been dramatically overstated and it has much more fantasy in its creative DNA. And after 15 years maybe RTD feels that the hard SF tropes are getting a bit played out and leaning into a more fantasy direction will lessen the reliance on them and of endlessly recycling the Who back catalogue (although I’m sure there’ll still be a lot of that.)
12 December 2023 at 11:43 #74977That’s awful news. I’d have to say that Gibson was my all-time favourite comic artist. Often bordering on caricature but always getting away with it and a really distinctive, uncopyable (believe me, I’ve spent my whole life trying) style. And the fact that he’s responsible for the visualisation of Halo Jones definitely puts him firmly in the pop culture hall of fame (this might be controversial statement but I’d say that it’s Alan Moore’s finest work).
Quite bummed out by that. What with us losing Kevin O’Neill round about this time last year. Seems we’re losing all the real talents from the golden years of 2000AD. (For the love of God, someone put Mick McMahon in a safe room right now.)
12 December 2023 at 11:35 #74976@scaryb — re. the new sonic. Yeah, I was dubious at first sight but have to say that now I absolutely love it….
10 December 2023 at 20:03 #74936As requested by @scaryb and @juniperfish (it’s very long, so I wouldn’t blame anyone who gave up halfway through…
10 December 2023 at 18:38 #74935OK, some thoughts now that I’ve had time to mull that over.
First a few general thoughts. NPH was fine enough as the Toymaker though for a lot of the time he just felt like a new iteration of the Master (with Simm’s version coming particularly to mind) rather than the cosmic threat of the Toymaker (certainly he lacked the suave of Michael Gough). I wasn’t sure about the Sellars-esque cod-German accent but RTD’s explanation put my mind at rest. And at the risk of sounding like a killjoy, I could have lived without the musical interlude at UNIT HQ. It was cool in Last of the Time Lords but it’s becoming a tad overused now and I tend to feel that it kills the narrative momentum stone dead.
I liked the 2023 ‘everyone thinks they’re right’ storyline and kind of wish they’d run with that a bit more instead of the runaround of the 2nd half. And I guess the Toymaker was defeated rather easily (more easily, say, than in the fourth part of the Hartnell episode I watched the other day). Maybe he’ll be back or maybe it would have been nice if he’d been more involved in the other specials.
Which brings us onto the bi-generation (kudos to RTD. I suspect even the name is causing apoplexy among the broflakes.) As a concept, I suspect it’s a bit of a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it’s clearly designed to open up a multiverse kind of deal (as suspected by @blenkinsopthebrave) and that could be interesting. I think we’ll probably see limited series on Disney now featuring other Doctors — Tennant certainly but maybe other Doctors too. Might be nice to see McGann get another moment in the spotlight. But then there’s the problem that the other multiverses aren’t exactly unqualified successes either. If Disney ends up saturating us with Whoniverse content then viewer fatigue might set in pretty quickly. It’d be a shame if Who jumps on the multiverse bandwagon just as it’s running out of steam. And if this is indeed the game plan, I’m still not sure whether it was even necessary to give a canon explanation for it at all. There’s no reason why other-Doctor spin-offs couldn’t have taken the format of the old Virgin Missing Adventures — although I guess this way differentials in age can be taken into account. (And in my mind’s eye I can now see 12 outstretching his arms, saying ‘Doctor, I let you go’ and … then nothing happens.)
There’s also the worry that bi-generation devalues the concept of regeneration a bit further. I have problems with regeneration in general anyway as an apparently cost-free get-out-of-jail free card anyway but what stakes and mavity it once had and for regeneration stories to become ho-hum in the extreme.
But in the context of this particular story, I have to admit I liked it a lot. A big emotional regeneration probably wouldn’t have had much of an impact coming so soon after Whittaker’s so it probably had to be something a little bit different. And I’ve always wanted to see a regeneration story where the plot starts with one Doctor and is resolved by the next. Although I think my preference would have been for 14 to go and leave cede the floor to 15. Rather like Matt Smith coming back to nobble Capaldi in his first outing, I can’t help but feel that Tennant prevented Gatwa from truly having a chance to shine — although he did a bloody good job of holding his own and is just as charismatic and engaging as I thought he would be. It’s a shame he had to hit the ground running so much tho, so to speak. (No regeneration trauma for him, apparently.) And at least it’ll mean that he’s ready to go straight from the start of the Xmas episode.
I’m in a similar state of doubt about the ‘home’ (apparent) resolution to 14’s story. I can see why RTD wanted to put all the Doctor’s PTSD and survivor guilt to rest once and for all. And it’s good that 15 gets to go off unencumbered by all that (or at least until he’s loaded up with some fresh trauma) but on the one hand that really should be the ultiimate end-game for the Doctor so it’s odd (or perhaps utterly appropriate) that we get to see it now. But on the other hand, it’s not really an end game of any kind. This is a pretty new regeneration and if it ends up being as peaceful and restive as they’re trying to make out it’ll likely be a pretty long one. And Donna will be gone in what 60 or so years, Sylvia and Wilf even sooner. And Rose in maybe 80 or 90 years. And what’s he going to do then. Have a load of more people to mourn and be on his own again.
But despite these carpings. I enjoyed this a lot although much of it was rather familiar — essentially a mash up of Journey’s End and The Last of the Time Lords. So barring the Star Beast, which was conceived by someone else, I hope this doesn’t mean that RTD is running on empty plot-wise and that Gatwa’s run isn’t going to have the same sense of repetitiveness and the recycling of old ‘greatest hits’. (And talking of LOTTL, I’m not sure the red nail polish is that significant and is just a callback to that story when it was the Master’s missus who picked up the ring. Not sure we can assume it’s the Rani. (In fact, maybe it’s Missy, crossing timelines to save herself or maybe get some payback for her killing herself.)
10 December 2023 at 16:26 #74932Yep, that positively screams Harry Potter, doesn’t it? Though to be fair, pretty sure Rusty said that the show was going to lean heavily into a fantasy direction going forward. Looks like he wasn’t joking….
9 December 2023 at 21:31 #74898Well, lots to process there so more thoughts later but overall I enjoyed it with a few nagging reservations — although that has to be the most RTDiest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.
8 December 2023 at 23:10 #74862Hi, @mudlark, yes, saw that. I see also that there’s a rumble of ARSE about the animation style but I have to admit that I rather like it. (Oh, and @blenkinsopthebrave, Celestial Toymaker, such as it is, duly watched. Lots of fun, despite having two of the most annoying companions ever on board and Hartnell being just a bit too pixie-ish for my taste.
Very much looking forward to The Giggle. The only thing I really want to see is Tennant saying ‘I want to go’, or words to that effect at the point of regeneration….
8 December 2023 at 23:06 #74860Hi, @scaryb
It goes live tomorrow and I’ll definitely post a link for anyone who’s interested. But while my subscribers are not many it’s probably only fair that they get first dibs…
7 December 2023 at 18:42 #74843A whole other interesting concept we haven’t really discussed yet is the fact that, by human standards, Time Lords are also “race fluid”
That is an interesting point and has loads of implications — primarily to my mind whether there’s an aspect of regeneration that uses a kind of social camouflage or ‘imprinting’, as I think has been implied in the show of late — as in Capaldi Doc was Scottish because of the influence of Amy, WhitDoc was female because of the influence of Bill (and perhaps Missy) and possibly Gatwa-Doc is black because of the influence of Rose 2 (and perhaps Bill). That might explain why the Doc was obstinately white and male for so long as they were ostensibly the social models surrounding them at the point of regeneration.
My own headcanon, as I think I’ve said before, is that the Time Lords are like body-snatchers and the templates for the various faces and bodies come from an archive of choices that they’ve maybe time-scooped from throughout time and space. One’s just ‘downloaded’ from somewhere (the Matrix) when you need one.
7 December 2023 at 18:28 #74842lol, yes, it does have shades of Timeless Child v2 about it….
7 December 2023 at 16:10 #74838And just to whet appetites for Saturday…. (from Threads)
Russell T. Davies in Doctor Who Magazine: “…there will be controversial events in [The Giggle]. If you watched the commentary on iPlayer, I unroll a whole new Doctor Who mythology for you, based around the events taking place… The commentary will have information that will rock the world… it’s a whole new way of of looking at the history of Doctor Who and I can’t wait to see the reaction.”
5 December 2023 at 23:58 #74821In fact, here’s the trailer….
5 December 2023 at 23:54 #74820Well, if these last couple of forums have proved anything is that one of Chibs’ major failings was the ability to inspire any kind of significant speculation. Have to say I’ve missed this level of bonkerising.
Interesting convergences you mention there. If entities in this story were proto-Eternals and the Toymaker is definitely one then could this be a foreshadowing of (maybe) what’s to come in 15’s era? Also as an aside, are you suggesting that there’s a link between the Fendahl and the Great Vampires — maybe relates species or sub-species? Cos I like that idea a lot. (And a shout out to Image of the Fendahl in general — it’s actually one of my favourite Baker stories and would say it’s one of my favourite novelisations.)
Ooh, I’m also liking the ‘deep fake’ concept as well as the body dysmorphia one. I think I’ve seriously under-estimated this episode after all this bonkerising.
@juniperfish — Yes, a re-imagined Time Lord society, post the canonicity of the Fugitive Doc/13 would definitely be interesting and I’d very much like to see that. And definitely concur with Left Hand of Darkness being a possibly template for a future Gallifrey (also one of my favourite Le Guins).
@blenkinsopthebrave – am looking forward to checking out the Celestial Toymaker. On something of a Hartnell kick at the moment due to iPlayer anyway (I’m now firmly of the belief that Galaxy Four is something of a neglected classic.)
And talking of shout-outs, you can only be talking about Bubba-Ho-Tep, @whohar — a great, great movie that everyone should watch, if only for the career-best performance from Bruce Campbell and it’s endlessly quotable lines. (And if you can get the DVD edition, it’s worth doing so for the in-character commentary Campbell provides.)
5 December 2023 at 18:08 #74813@craig –
No problem at all. Tis the season and all that … besides it’s damn cold out there at the moment….
5 December 2023 at 18:07 #74812It’s a contentious subject I know but can we please keep it civil? You’ve started an interesting discussion here (imo) and everyone’s entitled to agree and disagree but let’s try to do it in a friendly way? Part of the point of this site’s inception was as a refuge away from the more combative corners of the internet and we should strive to keep it that way, I think.
As far as I can remember, HADS made their debut in The Krotons way back in Troughton’s era. Can’t recall it coming up in the Pertwee or Baker ones, though it quite probably did. Certainly it seems to be rather inconsistent. Like how come the TARDIS just let the Master plunge it way back to Event One in Castrovalva when presumably the HADS should have kicked in. And there’s probably a gazillion other examples too….
4 December 2023 at 19:55 #74792Oh, that’s interesting. I never thought of that and it’s starting to make me think of the episode in a whole different light now.
I was wondering if the various bits and pieces were on there as well as the full stories. Right then, I’ll check out the lone episode of The Celestial Toymaker before the weekend.
4 December 2023 at 17:01 #74782ah, mea culpa. Hadn’t realised that it had a full episode intact. Thought it was reduced to just clips and telesnaps. I do have a copy of Lost in Time somewhere but I’m ashamed to say that I’ve still not watched it.
4 December 2023 at 16:56 #74780Wasn’t sure where to actually post this, but as the upcoming post is very much on Who, maybe this is the best place. Am about to try to revive my old substack and decided to start with a (very long) post on Who, the culture wars and its long history of controversy. (Not posting it here as it’s, as I say, very long and was starting to feel that the blogs section was being rather dominated by yours truly). But if you fancy reading it then please do sign up. As well as Who I plan to post on pop culture in general, as well as politics, journalism and neurodiversity (was given a late ASD diagnosis a few years back and I’m very much still processing it but have also become quite vested in a lot of the issues around it.)
4 December 2023 at 13:58 #74775@craig — that is indeed really great and worthwhile. Donated.
4 December 2023 at 13:07 #74773Yes, must admit I like that idea a lot. It’ll be interesting to see the Toymaker back but I do wonder if expectations might be a little high. What with the Gough original only been seen in a few isolated clips and photos I wonder if he might have been built it up in fans’ imaginations. I know he’s a character I’ve built up to epic proportions in my own head canon.
3 December 2023 at 16:11 #74760@robertcaligari–
Basically what @juniperfish said. There’s a long history of a one-way street in blind casting so it’s nice to see it going the other way (not that it’s not still unproblematic.)
However, it’s still a question of context. I’d agree if that had been a Rosa-esque episode focused solely on Newton’s life and influence then maybe the casting might have been questionable (in the same way that casting Hugh Grant as MLK might be) in which case they might have had to look at Newton’s own links to the slave trade and just what an unpleasant git he was (in comparison to the rather sweet portrayal yesterday).
But in the case of a few-minutes of pre-credits teaser, I don’t think it’s a problem, especially as it’s essentially based around a (meh) joke (unless it isn’t, as @miapatrick says). Plus if you also take into account that it’s based on an event that’s apparently apocryphal anyway, I’m not inclined to think it too much of an issue.
3 December 2023 at 11:59 #74756Afraid I’m going to have to be the dissenting voice here and say that I didn’t love this one much. Didn’t hate it, just didn’t love it. For all the talk of this being ‘something Who has never done before’, this seemed to me to be little more than a mash-up of Listen, Flatline and Midnight (another story that I’ve never quite understood the love for). It also reminded me of Sleep No More, which I think I probably enjoyed more (something I never thought I’d say. Yes, it’s Capaldi but it’s 2nd tier Capaldi imo).
I thought seeing Wilf at the end might have made up for it but I found myself just feeling so concerned for his frailty. Just kept thinking ‘the poor guy’s in his 90s and, as it happens, weeks away from death. Maybe he’s not up to this.’ Still, maybe he wanted to do one last gig but Who is frenetic and if he’s in next week’s I’m going to spend all his scenes just fretting for him.
Still it looked great (aside from some of the ropey transformation effects) and Tennant and Tate were great as ever. Interesting that RTD is integrating the Timeless Child into mythos — although if he’s apparently about to hit the Big Reset Button maybe he figured it didn’t really matter. The bit of pre-credits trolling with Isaac Newton was funny but not sure the ‘mavity’ joke worked for me. I mean, it’s not as if Newton invented the word, which as far as I’m aware comes from the Latin, but merely gave it a new meaning. But perhaps the scene’s got more significance than that and altered timelines are going to be a thing either in the last specials or going forward. Certainly, I get the feeling that with the salt 14 has created something that is going to come back to haunt 15.
All in all, an OK episode that would have been mid-tier in a full series but to have what is essentially a bottle episode as one of your anniversary specials seems a bit of a waste and, well, a tad unambitious….
28 November 2023 at 15:48 #74685@pufferfish — yeah, that one stuck out a mile even to me. (Tho it has to be said that there’s more than a bit of Dick Van Dyke to 10/14)….
28 November 2023 at 15:47 #74684Just a few thoughts on the above…
@juniperfish — I’m not sure we’ll see Billie P as Rose again — although I agree that RTD might have to fight hard against the temptation. If she does show up, I’d say it’d have to be on Saturday as having her in an episode that features the return of the Toymaker plus presumably includes the Tennant/Gatwa regeneration might be over-egging the pudding and would mean Rose taking the backseat. Still, perhaps we’ll get 14 seeing Rose 1 again as 11 saw Amy just before he regenerated. I suspect that from here on in, Finney is Rose and I’m hoping she might play a part in the show beyond these specials.
RE. ‘The Boss’. It’s probably just the Toymaker, isn’t it? Though it would be nice if it’s pointing to someone/thing else, maybe something that’s not going to be resolved until we’re into Gatwa’s run. And good shout to all those that noticed Rose being a ‘toymaker’ herself. I wonder if that’s just a nice bit of foreshadowing or is going to be something larger?
Ah, bonkerising …. how I’ve missed it….
26 November 2023 at 19:24 #74659RTD2 – love it!!
Thanks but I almost certainly can’t take credit for that. I’m sure some sharp young thing came up with it on Twitter or whatever it’s calling itself these days.
And that’s a really nice piece from Pat. And since he’s seldom known for holding back on his opinions we can safely say that it’s meant from the heart. And good to hear that the creators were treated with a bit of respect this time. Hopefully that can pave the way for future collaborations. Maybe City of the Damned redux?
what we saw looked so expensive that I can’t imagine it is just there for three Tennant specials
Yes, I’m inclined to agree. I think this console room is here to stay, which I’m fine with. Tho perhaps it’ll get a few cosmetic touches as the Pickwoad one did when Capaldi took up residence.
Greetings, fellow fish. So good to see you back.
hyper-analysis by fandom, trying to “crack” said code
And even as I read that, I thought ‘and you’re the ideal candidate to do it’ and lo and behold you didn’t disappoint. Great post, which I’m still mulling over….
26 November 2023 at 13:29 #74646You really registered just to say that? Why?
And as for ‘most woke Who ever’, all that does is suggest you really haven’t been paying attention over the past 60 years.
26 November 2023 at 00:14 #74637Well, I enjoyed that a lot. It felt like big, proper Who and convinced me that Davies hasn’t lost his touch. This could easily have fitted in to one of Davies’ later seasons and was actually a damn sight better than some of the stories from that time.
Tennant obviously looks a bit more, um, weathered since his last appearance, not that it matters as if he’s playing a new Doctor rather than reprising 10. I think I’d have liked them to have pushed the boat out a bit more to emphasise that though, rather than essentially giving him a re-tweaked version of his old costume and I couldn’t really see that much difference in behaviour between 14 and 10 and I’d have liked to see a bit more in that department. Still both Tennant and Tate slipped into their roles with ease and it did feel like old times very quickly (and only very occasionally like an anniversary special that was desperately willing the old chemistry to come back, which I suppose it was).
Nice to see Sylvia back too and she’s always been for my money the most realised of the companion parents — bar Wilf, of course, and I was slightly disappointed that we didn’t get to see the late Bernard Cribbins one last time (I was under the impression that he had been involved in filming shortly before he died but perhaps not. Perhaps that was only a set visit.
But the real revelation for me was Yasmin Finney as Rose. What a great performance and I really liked that they engaged with the character’s trans-ness. And as predicted by @juniperfish, the comments sections of the Mail and Express are already filling up with ‘Dr Woke’ comments, although I was pleased to see that the Mail at least ran a pretty positive piece on her introduction. And tbh, I’d have liked to have seen her as the main companion rather than Donna. She would have fitted with this Tennant-redux Doc I think.
On a more general note, the progressive elements were by and large (and with only a fleeting moment’s clumsiness) handled well by Davies — certainly far more than the ham-fisted heart-on-sleeviness of the Chibs era and I liked the way that it was an actual plot point rather than something that was accessorised into the story. And it seems that Davies is growing as a writer in the way that the meta-crisis wasn’t solved by a wave of the hand by the Doctor but solved by Donna and Rose themselves.
And I’ve really got to praise the overall design of the episode too. The opening titles seem to owe a lot to the first Tennant era while also being impressively epic but with nods to the other opening titles too — strong elements of the first Smith titles in there too. And the new console room is a thing of beauty too, especially after the travesty of the Whittaker TARDIS. Again, there are elements of the previous Nu-Who console rooms in there, especially the wonderful Pickwoad one (which, for me, is now the bar that has to be met) but also elements of the first Tennant one in the spherical design and of the Smith ‘junkshop’ one. It’s huge too and I think the multi-level console room is a must these days to avoid static expository scenes in the TARDIS. Strangely, though, having got used to darkish console rooms, it did feel a little bright to me with its Hartnell-esque stylings but I dare say I shall re-acclimatise.
But this episode had a lot riding on it for me personally, and not just as a soft reboot after the CE, with Davies having the temerity to adapt the Star Beast. And it was a bit disappointingly superfluous, although both the Meep and the Wrarth Warriors were realised brilliantly. I would have liked to have seen the whole ‘living bomb’ sub-plot included but I suppose there wasn’t ever much chance of that (although I think it would have provided some great comic material for Tennant and Tate). But I suppose Davies chose the story not just for the fan service but for the relatively simplistic bait-and-switch nature of the plot that allowed room for the interesting Doctor/Donna/Rose character stuff. (But the fidelity to the original story was nice, although perhaps the most unrealistic element was there being an operating steelworks in the UK in this current day and age).
And another shout-out to the design once again, which did a brilliant job of recreating Dave Gibbons’ original design for the Meep’s ship and of the steelworks (some of those shots looked like they were straight out of the original). But at least there’s scope for a return of both the Meep and the Wrarth Warriors at a later point now that they’ve been introduced and it’s cool that Davies feels he can plunder the wealth of excellent material available from the back pages of Dr Who Weekly. Maybe there’s still a chance we’ll get to see elements from the Tides of Time or the Apocalypse Device in the future.
With regards to a through-line in the specials, I’m not sure there’s going to be one really, save for that mention of ‘The Boss’ at the end (although the idea of the Meep tolerating anything like a boss seems unlikely to me). And as the link that @blenkinsopthebrave posted the other day suggested, it seems they’re going more for a unique vibe to each special rather than building a strong sense of continuity between them. I doubt this is going to be particularly Flux-like and more like the last run of Tennant specials.
Well, thanks for letting me ramble, if you made it to the end of this epic. It’s been a long time since I’ve been able to gush about a new episode. (And good choice of snacks, @craig. I too am a devotee of the Jammie Wheel and see very little difference between them and the Dodgers. The faux Wagon Jammie Wagon Wheels are good too.)
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