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3 June 2025 at 12:14 #77823
As @whohar says, there are lots of rumours swirling about hasty reshoots that apparently happened in Feb, involving the regeneration scene, and presumably developing the Poppy story. There are also rumours that Carole Ann Ford’s Susan had another appearance in the finale and leading on to the next seasons. Whether all that was necessitated by problems with Disney, BBC, recommissioning, Who knows! And it is all rumour and speculation for now.
As I mentioned somewhere above, the difference between Moff and RTD is that you can find all the connections in Moff stories if you choose to dig deep enough. And it opened itself up to much bonkers theorising – hence why we’re all here. 😀 RTD does tend to go with the “rule of cool” especially visually, but as WhoHar also mentioned he can do long form when he wants, and may well have had more planned. But we’ll never know. So back to creating our own mad theories! 😀
My theory about Billie is that she may be a temporary interim Doctor till the future becomes clearer.
Meanwhile, here’s a reconstruction of the alternative lost ending of The Feast of Steven, and my favourite avatar, set on the Planet Grimwald 😉 A happy Dugga Doo to you all!! 😀 (It’s got AI generated voices which aren’t brilliant but it gives Sara Kingdom another outing):
1 June 2025 at 19:26 #77792And murky – yes, bring back murky!! One reason The Well is in my top 5 for the last 2 seasons.
What’s everyone else’s top 5?
1 June 2025 at 19:18 #77791I have to agree somewhat with @juniperfish‘s comment about the Doctor apparently zapping Omega with something that looks like a big gun, but I accommodated this into my head canon as it not being an actual gun but a force-generator, so its intent isn’t to kill Omega, just force him back into the Underverse! But it’s important that the Doctor fixes things by being the cleverest person in the room, not by violence.
It’s UNIT’s job to wield the weapons and they do that with slightly more effect than they did in the old days. Watching The Three Doctors ( Thanks @craig ) reminded me just how trigger happy they’ve always been – regardless of how effective it is! First reactions are invariably “shoot it”… and 9 times out of 10 it doesn’t work! @blenkinsopthebrave – yes the swivelly tower was great – but why only build your defences beaming forwards in the first place 😀
One thing I picked up on in diving into t’other place – Conrad’s fate. Ruby latches on to his lack of real family and casts a wish on him – to be happy. That’s very Doctor Who 🙂 And in the end this episode, and maybe the 2 season arc, is all about family – the ones you find – in all their diversity – can be just as good as/better than the one you were born into, especially if that first one let you down.
Having said that, watching Ruby being sidelined as the Doctor and Belinda get overexcited about going travelling, even as their baby suddenly disappeared (from the TARDIS and their memories) was heartbreaking. One thing I thought was really effective – The Doctor and Belinda passing Poppy’s yellow jacket back and forward between them, folding it each time so it gets smaller and smaller.
A loose end that bothers me (as opposed to all the ones that don’t – I can cope with RTD not being as deep on details as Moff who could never leave a loose end untied even if it wasn’t his to begin with) – is the fate of poor Rogue. He’s never going to get out of that hell dimension now. Talk about the “kill your gays” trope!!
1 June 2025 at 00:57 #77776@devilishrobby Agree with you on hoping Ncuti would only give up a bit of regen energy but I think in real life he’s an an actor going places (hope so) and probably only signed up for a short time. I loved him as the Doctor, felt like a very fresh take on the character.
@juniperfish Agree with you (and I think @whohar and others made the point before) – Omega’s previous costume worked better (iconic mask). If you know his history then his degeneration to just a scary monster is shocking. But otherwise he’s just another CGI monster. More actors please! Especially like Archie Panjabi, I’d like to have spent more time with her! Loved Anita Dobson’s waspish take too.
@blenkinsopthebrave It was a romp. And agree on Jodie nailing it in just a few seconds. Conrad – he’s now working as a cook in (running?) a cafe when he wanted to be Nigel Farage, and dictate the narrative, so maybe that’s some poetic justice!
Despite its flaws and some plot holes Dr Who is still the most bonkers, big hearted thing out there (apart from the amazing minds on this forum! 🙂 ). I love that it can still incorporate so much variety of stories – crazy, weird, blockbuster, terrifying, intimate – and ‘woke’ ideas in ways that don’t feel tokenistic in these dark times. (I do hope the disabled and displaced gang survived OK and live long and prosper!).
My highlights from Ncuti’s run – and I think the 2 seasons need to be seen as a whole – Boom, 73 Yards, Dot and Bubble, Lux, The Well, The Story And The Engine… and the chilling ICE adjacent security guards in Wish World gave me shivers. No daleks or cybermen yet it’s still Doctor Who.
At the end of everything, it’s about family (loved the Rani’s jibe about the Doc always coming in with a love saving the day solution) – the ones you choose especially – no matter how much crazy shit the universe throws at you.
31 May 2025 at 22:16 #77770Just in from the cinema screening, which was fab, and encouragingly full of lots of younger Whovians (as opposed to old timers like me, though there a few of us too).
And I’m going to have to cry for Ncuti a bit more, I’m afraid. I was so not ready.
Me too. Managed to dodge spoilers in the run up, tho I was aware it was likely to be Ncuti’s last episode, I was still hoping against hope. Maybe a bit uncharitable, but we lost him to make an imaginary space baby real!! (Sorry Poppy 😛 )
While I’m not overly keen on CGI monsters I have to say Omega looked fairly impressive on the big screen. I thought the awesome Archie Panjabi was disposed of, gulped down, just a little too quickly! And it’s a shame the tragedy of the original Omega’s insanity (brought on by his own hubris and millennia spent alone in the antimatter universe (is that not a thing any more?) wasn’t addressed (unless I missed it).
Having said that, there was lots to love and I did enjoy it a lot. Lots of emotional stuff, great performances and Anita Dobson’s Rani is still out there! Conrad got a bit of comeuppance but not sure that he actually learned anything. Production values were great, loved the Rani’s bone palace (and her jacket!). Couldn’t help but wonder why UNIT’s defences only face one way! 🙂
But the Doctor saved the day in a great action turn from Ncuti, and a bit of help from his friends – great to see Anita and the Space Hotel back… bit handy that she was keeping an eye on the Doc 😉
Lots to digest. Not my favourite episode of the series (but there’s strong competition) but a fine end for Ncuti. And RTD? Lovely to see Jodie nailing it. The ending was a complete surprise for me. Hope Billie gets a chance to get a proper run at it. 8 episodes is really too short for a season though.
As The Doctor has got rid of wishes (wishing that there should be “no more wishes”) and has reset the universe by that tiny degree, does that mean the gods and fairy tale worlds have gone too or are they still lurking somewhere? Is bigeneration not a thing any more, and is Tennant Doc still lurking out there in domestic bliss somewhere?!
31 May 2025 at 14:13 #77754Just dropping in to wish everyone an enjoyable finale, and may all your favourite theories come true!
I’m looking forward to watching both this week’s, and Wish World as a double bill in my local cinema. Anyone else?
Cheers… here’s some cocktail suggestions to oil the bonkerising bits of the brain 🙂
31 May 2025 at 14:04 #77753Love this idea from @blenkinsopthebrave
And at the conclusion all 15 Doctors form a conga line, waving to the audience as they ascend to the own individual Tardis.
😀 😀 😀
Maybe a bit too low key for RTD2 tho.
@thane16 Always love how you pick up on musical cues
Re doubts – I think the Rani says that it’s the Vindicator which creates the world, feeding off Conrad’s fantasies. The Vindicator is closely associated with GatwaDoc so does that explain why it’s the Doctor’s doubts which are especially needed – everyone else is just “padding” – in fact, MAYBE everyone else doesn’t exist in the Doctor’s “dreamworld” – it gets populated with characters from his memories. A fantasy world for one person only.
29 May 2025 at 23:39 #7773829 May 2025 at 23:26 #77736That’s beautiful. Hadn’t come across Anthony Hecht before.
29 May 2025 at 23:17 #77733And one more – which is what I started looking for…
In honour of The Big O (Omega! (thanks @ps1l0v3y0u ), sung by the actual Big O (Orbison), from David Lynch’s Blue Velvet. In Dreams – lots of wishes and weirdness, with Dean Stockwell miming for very disturbed gangster Frank (Denis Hopper), the end visuals playing about with fantasy worlds and the ‘underverse’.
29 May 2025 at 22:58 #77732I watched Unleashed too, and I felt for the crew! Midges are really the worst, evil wee critturs.
Are there any songs about them?
Of course there are!! A bit on the cheesy side but here you go:
Scottish legend Kenneth McKellar (“the midges, the midges, I’m no gonny kidyes, with teeth like piranhas, they’ll drive ye bananas…)
And this one (from award winning Scottish singer songwriter Bob Strachan (who appeared on the Voice UK 2023)):
Comes with a warning from the singer:
Now as this song comes to an end I hope that you did laugh
And now I’m sure you’re thinking that I am pretty daft
But the thing that I find funny is not the smile upon your cheeks
It’s that this song’s got in your head… and now you’ll be singing it for weeks
28 May 2025 at 20:35 #77700@whisht – what an amazingly eclectic music collection you have <3
Great choices as always. And the last one even has the colour scheme!! (Blue/yellow/splashes of dark red)
And very fitting for 1950s Wish World.
Now I may have to go and suck some lemons to counterbalance all that sugary sweetness. LOL. 😛
28 May 2025 at 10:02 #7769228 May 2025 at 09:55 #77691Septimus Valentine – that is indeed magnificent.
In fairy tales it was always the 7th son of the 7th son who was important, daughters didn’t seem to count 😉 . Glad your relatives disrupt the myth 😀
And poppies – remembrance (as well as forgetting/dreaming) – good shout.
WhoHar – throwing Jenny into the mix – he’s brought back just about everyone else, LOL (between him and Chibs anyway).
28 May 2025 at 09:49 #77690We’ve been (logically) assuming that the Doctor is talking about one person i.e. that Poppy is his daughter. But what if she’s not? What if the Doctor is making two unrelated statements?
Interesting. I like it!
It’s been an interesting mix with RTD2 – on the one hand creating a whole pantheon of superpowered mythical creatures and on the other foregrounding about how interesting “ordinary” people are.
And is Omega the Meep’s boss?!
28 May 2025 at 09:44 #77689Thanks to @mudlark and @juniperfish for spots and explanations about Blodeuwedd. Which fits with this season’s theme of myths, fairy tales, and the power of stories. In fact all of Ncuti’s/RTD2’s run.
And to @geoffers for clarifying my muddled thinking. Of course the Rani timetravelled from 1865 to 2025. Similarly, we (and the world’s inhabitants) only THINK this world has been in existence for ages. Presumably it was created not long after Mrs F released Conrad, and just as/after the TARDIS doors blew open at the end of last episode. And also presumably since Belinda was kidnapped by the robots as (apart from being kidnapped by alien robots!) the earth was fine when she left it. Maybe @whohar‘s “schwup” is the key.
“Poppy is real” – in what way is she real, in ways that other characters here aren’t? (Not counting Susan and Rogue who could presumably be figments of the Doctor’s subconscious).
There have been lots of kidnappings throughout Gatwa Doc’s tenure, especially babies – the goblins in Ruby’s first episode, the space babies (abandoned), Ruby herself (abandoned), Belinda (not a baby, but kidnapped), The Story And The Engine (multiple kidnappings AND Poppy’s out of time appearance). And now the Wish Baby.
Final thought – Ruby remembers living through 2025 before (73 Yards). I had started formulating a theory around colour coding, specifically turquoise and yellow, but there’s a lot of yellow throughout these 2 seasons, so maybe not significant.
PS @whisht – haha, I got distinct Green Goblin vibes from The Rani’s flying scooter too 🙂
26 May 2025 at 00:37 #77637Dates are mentioned in Lucky Day – anyone note which ones? Do we know what date it is when Mrs F releases Conrad from prison?
26 May 2025 at 00:26 #77636Welcome back @pufferfish I love your thinking!
@mudlark The whole point of the false world is that it can be destroyed by doubt… And the Doctor’s breakthrough doubt is powerful enough to break into the underverse where Omega is supposedly trapped. So Conrad was employed as a flawed world maker. Set up to fail… poor Conrad!
Random thoughts – 24 May is the day Belinda was kidnapped by the robots (at the behest of another (flawed) world maker/incel). Before she was kidnapped it was supposedly another “normal” day. So what happened then to make it significant – the day that the Rani (presumably) chose to break reality? Was it just that this was the day the Doctor was trying to get back to, using the Vindicator which the Rani then subverted for her own plans? And how did she get her hands on the Vindicator?
Poppy – agree with you both that this goes back to the specials – when “mavity” was introduced and the salt was scattered, letting loose the pantheon of gods, fairytales and myths (including bigeneration (and we do still have a loose 14 running around somewhere)). IRL 15’s 2 seasons were written and filmed back to back, and RTD planned the broadcast dates over a year ago. There’s been remarkably little leaked about the season apart from #RIPDrWho and rumours of cancellation which fits in with the themes of this season.
Maybe I’m clutching at straws here 😛 .
OTOH I really liked this episode, including the yellow/turquoise theme of the fake world – a callback to Dot And Bubble? Coincidence?
One more random thought – at the end of last week – Interstellar Song Contest – the TARDIS doors explode – as far as I know the only other time this has happened was at the end of Ep1 of The Mind Robber (a story all about storytelling, and rewriting the narrative). The next thing we know, the Doctor is in an alternative universe (We don’t know how old this is or how long the Doctor’s been trapped here – it may not be as long as it looks).
Bonkers theory – in order to escape the alternative reality the Doctor has to go back to employ the services of the Barber (whose stories were enough to sustain the existence of the gods) in order to create a new story which overwrites the Rani’s version!
Final (3 glasses of wine) thoughts – it’s 25th May and we’re all still here!!
PS How come the baby Desiderium (?) is still a baby at 160 years old?! Does that have implications about toddler Poppy’s real/presumed age?
🙂
24 May 2025 at 22:51 #77598As @blenkinsopthebrave says
@whohar, are your amazing powers of prediction the result of that very long time you once spent in the bath?
I’m sure Douglas Adams would wholeheartedly agree with the power of a long bath! (And as always The Muppets are appropriate!)
24 May 2025 at 22:44 #77597Reminds me a lot of this classic…
24 May 2025 at 22:38 #77596I’ve missed this section! (And all the other bits on the forum!). I like working away, takes me to lovely places, but it doesn’t always fit in with Who schedules 😛
@mudlark – LOVE your Lesley Gore pick for Robot Revolution – just perfect (tho I admit to bias as it’s one of my all time faves). Thank you.
Thanks also to @whisht – always spot on.
This has just hit the Youtube channels, apparently by public demand, LOL)
WARNING – it’s an earworm and a half!! And will drive you NUTS 😀
24 May 2025 at 20:27 #77592First thing to say is…
All hail to @whohar 🙂
(Now I need to go and gather up the bits of my exploded brain before commenting further! And I’ve booked my cinema ticket for next week)
24 May 2025 at 18:08 #77582Late to this, but very happily caught up.
Agree with several above that the threat is unclear – what will happen to everyone if they just refuse to tell their stories? What power does the Barber have to make them? We’re not shown, but the the tension does ramp up well despite that. I’m also not clear about the hair thing – does the hair growing back indicate time passing in the real world? Why does the Barber cut his own hair as he’s revealing his own story?
I really liked it tho, and especially on a second watch. It continues to resonate, like all the best stories. Beware of not crediting the storytellers properly! 🙂 I liked how it resolved with the Barber being revealed as really just another hurt person, driven by vengeance for perceived slights, but then forgiven, not least by himself once he realised he been “seen” and then able to continue with a new life, still collecting stories. Would Abby, as the daughter of a god, have been one of his victims if he had succeeded in erasing them?
Meta References continue:
Did anyone else notice the images on the screen as the Barber told how he started out? The image of the Palazzo Cinema (so like the one in Lux) immediately followed by a retro looking space rocket looking very similar in style to the one in Robot Revolution… Didn’t spot any others, but these in particular jumped out. (And how did the Doctor know Belinda’s story? Did she tell him? And will she recognise Mrs Flood when she meets her IRL… and will the Doc?)
Oh, and I thought the acting was superb, especially the Barber who could easily have gone for being just another scenery chewing villain.
24 May 2025 at 16:41 #77581@whohar Mwuhuhuh 😀
Good to be back. Thanks again for the lengthy and wonderfully detailed list (Surely if you make a list long enough, you have to have some “hits” 🙂 )
24 May 2025 at 16:08 #77579Seconding @whisht and @blenkinsopthebrave (and others) about hoping that Belinda isn’t “special” especially after all the hoo ha (Who ha??!) about Ruby Sunday’s mum being “normal” and the doctor’s story being about Belinda because “normal people are just as exciting as stories about Weeping Angels, Daleks and Cybermen”.
Speaking of which… what are the chances of the Daleks making a comeback, do we think? If RTD is really going out after this series, would he actually leave them alone? (Reality War… cf Reality Bomb which was one of RTD1’s inventions (maybe just coincidence)). The Rani is more associated with the Cybermen but I personally think they’ve been done to death (during 13’s stories) and need a wee break. It’s been nice to see a run of stories which haven’t called on either.
And also, great to see Susan back (for no other reason than that every other available original main character has been brought back?!). I do think we’ll see her in at least one of the finales – but is she in Wish World, or Reality?
So – we have 2 Ranis and their spin doctor (Conrad) – or is Conrad the storyteller?
24 May 2025 at 15:52 #77578More thoughts about meta things – it’s not just in story that these have been cropping up. The whole timing of the broadcasts reinforces this sense of an alternative universe. Despite it having been filmed in 2023/24…
IGN has an interesting theory about RTD trolling the shows own fans in real life with the #RIPDrWho hashtag 😉 My pet bonkers theory (which I admit is more of a wish list) is that they’ve somehow sneaked in filming of a whole new series (with Gatwa) under the radar and that all the hints about the show going on hiatus are fake news! (I know, I know, but a girl can hope 😛 ). Sadly I think it’s more likely we’ll end on a regeneration scene… but into Who? Ruth Doc? Or leave it open for someone else to pick up the reins.
24 May 2025 at 15:41 #77577@whohar and everyone – thanks for all the ace bonkerising! 😀
And apologies for my absence on here, been working away from home and only just managed a proper binge catch up of the last 3 episodes. Twice!! And a catch up of the thoughts and theories here. I especially liked the Story And the Engine which has hung about my head a lot, and Interstellar Song Contest paid off on the second viewing – I think the layers are in there from early on about the Hellions, terrorist motivations etc, and also the Doctor seems genuinely shocked at his own behaviour when Belinda pulls him up on it).
Not a lot to add, except to concur about the alternative universe and that we should be looking at the whole RTD2 tenure as one season. So I expect callbacks to the specials, especially Wild Blue Yonder. Maybe the return of the Star Beast? I like @whisht‘s thoughts about a sneakily filmed extra 14 appearance.
This whole season has been about stories within stories, truth, lies, alternative facts, created worlds, meta references. Who do you believe and how would you know. And yes, lots of Mind Robbery vibes.
Not a massive Rani fan but I love Archie Panjabi, so I’m hopeful! She’s a scientist known for unscrupulous research methods, but if she’s behind the destruction of the earth why does she need the Doctor’s vindicator to get back to 24th May.
20 April 2025 at 17:53 #77307Was Susan a companion?
Very definitely! She was the original you might say 😉 (Whether she was also a Time Lady is up for discussion)
20 April 2025 at 17:49 #77306I loved it, but my brain is completely tied in knots with all the meta bits! 😛 (In a good way).
The Doctor and Mr Ring A Ding have lots of visual (and other) parallels – bow ties anyone? Blue suit? Picking up a (simpering, Betty Boop-alike) female companion (in a yellow dress!) as he starts an adventure. And Mr R-a-D’s style very strongly influenced by Disney’s not exactly PC 1950’s cartoon style.
Breaking of 4th walls (literally) left, right and centre… not to mention up and down, and outwards.
I think I need @juniperfish to sort my thoughts out 😉
@ps1l0v3y0u I’m definitely feeling your Mind Robber/Land of Fiction theories here – possibly with Mrs Flood as the source. Are we heading for a complete re-set when everything (including Sutekh) since 1968(???) is a story within a story?! Last week was also about a created (fictional) world.
The fans think they’re not real… but then it strongly suggests at the very end that they actually are (much to their surprise).
As at @winston‘s avatar reminds us – we’re all stories in the end.
Hi @cathannabel – great to see you back. I agree, I think Asians generally weren’t included in definition of “Blacks” and segregation, but in practice, especially in the deep south, if you were brown skinned you were at risk. Not so different in US now sadly – anyone not white, with a Latino sounding name is a potential target, And I love your theory – I like to think that a few years later, Logan is getting involved in civil rights protests, and perhaps remembering his encounter with the Doc…
Definitely my kind of Dr Who though. Off to ponder a bit more.
(Meta theories not helped by my difficulties in trying to watch this! iPlayer on TV kept re-setting and throwing me out every few seconds, Disney+ doesn’t seem to have DW on it anywhere… Ended up watching on my phone!)
18 April 2025 at 19:50 #77279Haha. (Hey! Whaddya mean Yetis are giant android hamsters??!! We are SO much more!)
Meanwhile (just before we all head into the world of cartoons) love this piece about my new fave bot – now named as Scoot 😉 (Q&A with the designer. and a link to the official Behind The Scenes video at the end)
“polish, polish” 😀
17 April 2025 at 15:17 #77272Thanks for sharing the news about Jean Marsh. Very talented woman. I was a big fan of Upstairs Downstairs in the 70s (my next door neighbour was a cook in a similarly big house in the 1920s. She found it very authentic for the most part).
I was gobsmacked when I realised Rose was the same actor as the wonderful Sara Kingdom. (I can be a bit slow on the uptake, LOL). Interestingly, if you count Sara as a companion, The Daleks’ Masterplan actually knocked off 2 companions, with (ancient Trojan) Katerina being a shocking first. I was devastated! It was such a long time ago, but I remember this serial very fondly, as one which was pushing the boundaries of Doctor Who. And the Daleks were still VERY scary (tho not quite so scary as some of the humans!). So much good stuff (starting with the bottle episode (some weeks before it) Mission To The Unknown). Shame they’re all mostly gone.
Checking the credits – the writers were Terry Nation, with Dennis Spooner doing most of the second half, and Director Douglas Camfield, so that explains a lot 😉
RIP Jean Marsh
Oh, and with you and @whohar on The Daemons
17 April 2025 at 15:02 #77271@thane16 “waves back”
@dentarthurdent Haha. Not jealous at all of you lazing about in tropical lagoons. It’s a tough life 😛
17 April 2025 at 14:59 #77270The Doctor has a great wardrobe.
Agreed.
Actually the TARDIS always had a great wardrobe, all the way back to Hartnell. Maybe they just lost the keys, or it relocated itself for a bit 😉
Belinda needs to go and investigate it urgently – she spent the whole of the first episode in her jammies!
17 April 2025 at 14:56 #77269I love you guys!! (Waves at everyone).
I nip off for a couple of days and I come back to a whole bunch of bonkers theories! (Puppies, doors, maybe – but it’s still great fun).
@ps1l0v3y0u – Mrs Flood is actually the Vlinx…?!
I’m liking the whole Mind Robber/Land of Fiction ideas. And there’s still the loose ends of mavity and 14’s letting in of “stranger things” with the salt in Wild Blue Yonder. (Are we getting too far away from that for it be picked up now, or is it (very) long game?)
@juniperfish @blenkinsopthebrave – I’m with you on wishing for longer series. TBH I find some of the 20 episode, multi season runs of some series just too much of a time investment, but 8 for DW definitely feels too short to get to know anyone. Is this a budgeting thing do we know?
@whohar yes, there do seem to be some worrying rumours flying around about dismantling sets and RTD mentioning “pauses”… there again, there are always rumours flying around in the Whoniverse (rarely good ones!)
Final comment for now – I don’t think RTD’s Who writing is necessarily getting more childish – burping wheelie bins in S1 anyone?
17 April 2025 at 14:28 #77268Love this! (Sorry – don’t know how to make it preview on here (for info, it’s a TikTok tribute to my new fave robot cleaner 😉 )
https://www.tiktok.com/@misslucif/video/7492531331608382738?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc
12 April 2025 at 23:14 #77228@winston So sorry to hear about your storm, that sounds really scary, and glad you came through it OK.
“I also think we plant trees for the people yet to come.” – what a beautiful thought. Hang on to it.
I met a couple of Canadians on my recent travels down under (sadly not close enough to catch up with @janetteb or @thane16 ) who mentioned temperatures of -22 (which is quite a jump to Melbourne’s 34 deg (and 40 deg the week before). Strange and scary times.
12 April 2025 at 22:59 #7722712 April 2025 at 22:57 #77226Well that was fun. 🙂
Not perfect, but a good season opener.
I liked the twist of it not being an AI problem but an AL(an) problem. I was getting creepy vibes off Alan in the opening but could have done with there being a bit more of it seeded thro the episode to fully earn the ending (without then having to make the connection quite so explicit).
I liked the war zone hospital scene – good character beats with the Doctor and Belinda, but also real world hospitals in war zones (that got me more than the battle scenes above ground).
There’s a sinister edge to the Doctor, and Ncuti plays it well, – the parallel with Alan – he wants Belinda to travel with him (and expects her to want to come with him).
The final scene – London taxis are tough… can even survive the apocalypse…??! 😉 So who blew/will blow up the earth?
Final thought – is Mrs Flood Romana? Or the Master…?
@craig – is he getting more Scottish? I think it was always there, but with the kilt n everything, possibly leaning into it more. Fine by me! 🙂
Final final thought – Thank you RTD for the “Polish, Polish” roomba – <3 (where can I get one??). But it doesn’t quite absolve him for killing the CAT!!
12 April 2025 at 18:52 #77223Waves at @blenkinsopthebrave
Good to be back, my old friend, as we prepare to jump into another new (and hopefully not the last) season of Dr Who 🙂 🙂 And yes indeed, times were very different back then. Not least if you missed an episode (or couldn’t get the aerial adjusted 😛 ) it was gone forever. None of this…”Hmm, will I watch it at broadcast, will I sneak an early peek, or catch up later…”. Dammit!! Too many choices, LOL (And sympathies to those not living in the UK mothership for whom choices my be a bit more limited).
A big hi and “CHEERS” to all in the pub here. (Virtual) drinks are on me 🙂
12 April 2025 at 18:41 #77222Happy to go with the consensus. I actually decided to wait for once!! And congrats on the new job… go our mighty emperor!
PS And what @blenkinsopthebrave said!
21 June 2024 at 17:22 #76460@whohar Totally agree with @blenkinsopthebrave – that is one awsome theory! (VHS tapes) 😀
21 June 2024 at 17:20 #76459Too much RL this week and I’m going to have to timeshift with the finale – only hope I don’t bump into Sutekh on the run and disappear forever! Will have to keep off t’interwebs for a bit!
Just wanted to do a quick message before then – y’all are AWESOME! So many great theories. If RTD has come up with anything even half as good, it’ll still be great! Been so great to bonkerise on here again, place has been buzzing this week. Thanks everyone and as always to our mighty emperor @craig for setting it up and keeping it going. 🙂
Enjoy and see you on the other side.
19 June 2024 at 03:44 #76416Sorry about the mega post. My brain’s exploded! Need to get some zzzzz. G’night everyone 😉
19 June 2024 at 03:31 #76415WOW!
That is 5 star bonkerising! 🙂
To take it a step further… 3 things strike me.
1. When did the TARDIS become infected? Let’s assume it was in Wild Blue Yonder, when the Dr did the salt thing at the border of the known universe and “the other”. Although it may have been before (need a rewatch of the specials to see when it started groaning!) But it’s certainly been for a while, before this series (1/14/41) started.
2. Who is the woman who left baby Ruby at the Church?
3. Susan Triad – RTD got in early with the meta joke S. Triad being an anagram of TARDIS – but maybe that’s a double bluff! How did she get the ability to effectively time travel (apparently in her dreams) to ALL the places the Dr and Ruby have been this series (including places we haven’t been with them). And how (and when) did she get infected by Sutekh? She’s clearly psychically connected by the time she’s giving her speech, and as far as we know she’s not been in physical contact before then (as Sutekh has only just manifested in UNIT HQ).
What if she is the woman who left Ruby? Originally played out as we saw, without the Dr present. But then the Dr visits to prevent Ruby being kidnapped by the goblins. And he arrives in his (infected) TARDIS… It’s after that that things start to change.
So if that woman is Susan Triad, that’s where she made contact with a (presumably) still weak Sutekh (who had to wait for the Time Window to complete his connection and allow him to manifest fully in our world). Sutekh’s connection with the TARDIS, and with her, allowed her later (apparent) travelling to appear as different people. (Or possibly she’s only a psychic manifestation – a trap to lure the Dr into using the Time Window to investigate).
And in the meantime, (possibly unaware that she too is now infected, and being manipulated (everyone says how nice she is)) having left baby Ruby hopefully in safe hands, she goes on to develop a career as a software developer (maybe with Sutekh’s influence) which as you pointed out is now widely used, including being embedded in all UNIT’s systems, with who knows what viruses, sub programmes (infections) included, which could trigger the additional abilities of the Time Window to facilitate Sutekh’s full manifestation. All down to the TARDIS’s unique capabilities and the Doctor going back to rescue Ruby. (So S Triad (anagram) and Sue-tech (tekh) pun could be a huge amount more than the apparently throwaway jokes we were trolled to believe!)
So when we see the Dr in the next time trailer at the end of this episode with his head in his hands saying it’s all his fault – that could be far more true than we think! In which case he’s got a helluva lot of sorting out to do! And his TARDIS is very sick indeed. (I wonder if Tennant’s TARDIS (when Ncuti duplicated it) is also infected with Sutekh… or is that a clean, spare version lying around? (I know DT and RTD have both said they’re finished with 10/14 but it would have been easy to sneakily film an extra scene as part of The Giggle‘s production block to use his TARDIS and to tie off 10/14’s story (maybe he’ll reintegrate with 15 to show that “normality” is back)).
PS Great spot on the colours in the cloak, and the connection to Sutekh. Also the Dr has been wearing a lot of orange this series, and the TARDIS is predominantly blue.
17 June 2024 at 21:30 #76387Thank you so much for clearing up my muddled time-addled little brain! I’d forgotten it was a Time Window they were looking at. (Funnily enough I’ve been mis-reading Sunak for Sutekh a few times! 😛 )
@juniperfish – sorry, not worked out the music for that scene yet, need another look/listen
17 June 2024 at 21:25 #7638617 June 2024 at 02:27 #76347@thane16 @mudlark – Wild Blue Yonder astronaut was definitely equine inspired.
I’m also concerned about Cherry – she doesn’t look at all safe with Mrs Flood, but is she just a minor character or is there something more to her that we’ve been distracted from?! (And indeed, what about Mrs F?)
(Douglas Adams had a lot to say about the power of a cup of tea!)
17 June 2024 at 02:20 #76346Oops – sorry – just realised both the links in my last post lead to the same Tweet (but both clips are in the same place).
Thinking again about the night of Ruby arriving at the church (and thanks everyone for the incredible amount of detail you’ve been coming up with). I’d forgotten how strongly Maestro reacted to Ruby, and their comment about “how could he be there, then” so yes, I agree that the TARDIS was already infected when it landed at the Church.
A timey wimey thought – Ruby and Carla have already scanned that VHS tape VERY closely – but they never saw a police box materialise and the Dr come out, or the woman turn and point etc… and yet all of that is now on the video tape – so it’s not just the Doctor’s memories that are changing, that tape has changed since it was first recorded (from a CCTV approx 73 yards from the Church!).
“time is memory – memories are time…”
The solution to Sutekh the last time was about time – the 2 minute window for the signal to travel from Mars to Earth, and a time tunnel. So presumably the solution this time will also be something to do with time. It strikes me that there are 2 characters who have been outside the time of this universe – Ruby and old Ruby – when they skipped forward to the 2040s to stop Gwilliam bringing nuclear war. But the earth as we know it hadn’t been destroyed by Sutekh at that point. Soooo – is Ruby’s mum (or the cloaked figure (who may not be her mum) who leaves her at the Church) actually old Ruby? maybe there’s a timey wimey explanation for old Ruby after all?!
And this holds the key to defeating Sutekh, accessed through UNIT’s time window perhaps? And especially because the Doctor has expressly forbidden it, I do think we’re going back to that supposedly fixed point…
17 June 2024 at 01:53 #76344@mudlark – that is just AWESOME work! 🙂
As @blenkinsopthebrave says the TARDIS also groans in Abbey Road, and I think at least one other time this series (possibly in Space Babies).
Interesting pick up from Twitter –
Compare this:
https://x.com/i/status/1799435940550648085
and this:
https://x.com/i/status/1799435940550648085
(That was posted by a very sharp eared person on 8 June! The same person also says there was a similar noise when the TARDIS landed on Krop Tor in The Impossible Planet (which leads into The Satan Pit… featuring the Beast – also voiced by Gabriel Woolf (so maybe it’s Gabriel the TARDIS has problems with rather that Sutekh, LOL!!))
15 June 2024 at 22:58 #76292Anyone else think that Ruby’s outfit in this episode is very TARDIS like…?
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