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21 January 2024 at 23:34 #75329
Mrs Flood? Still haven’t given up on River post spacesuit girl, and pre Mel. Maybe Captain Jack rocks up with vortex manipulator and sends her back to Amy’s timeline.
Alas I fear Cap’n Jack’ll never be back.
And Mrs. Flood will not be any of the existing Who lore characters.
But I will go all-out bonkers theorizing now:
Season 1 of the first spinoff: The Adventures of Doctor Ruth.
The Doctor and her granddaughter Susan are on the run from The Division from whom the Doctor has recently defected. They are hiding out on Earth in 1962, with Susan enrolled in the local Coal Hill School as part of their cover.
Susan’s friend from school (we’ll call her Isolde) has come looking for her. She stumbles into a small garden shed in back, not realizing it’s an alien space-time machine called a TARDIS which can change its shape. She finds Doctor Ruth on board. Something happens to cause the machine to dematerialize.
The two of them go off on a Season of adventures in time and space, ever on the run from Division soldiers. Isolde has the time of her life!
During the final two episodes Isolde meets and falls in love with Tristan, who joins the TARDIS team.
The Doctor finally pilots the TARDIS back to Earth while being pursed and makes a hasty maneuver that causes them to crash land. The TARDIS manages to materialize in a native form: a police call box.
Isolde has been knocked unconscious but Triston is able to get her out of the TARDIS and to a place of safety. The Doctor takes the time to make sure she’ll be all right before taking off on another set of adventures in Season 2.
When Isolde comes to, Triston proposes to her and when she accepts she asks his full name. Triston Flood. And she will be the future Mrs. Flood, who will never forget the extraordinary adventures she had in the magical shape-shifting TARDIS.
Season 2 ends with Doctor Ruth hiding on 21<sup>st</sup> century Earth as a human where she’d buried the TARDIS.
Season 3 (the final Season) begins with the newly re-Doctor’d Ruth back in the TARDIS for more adventures. It ends with her reuniting with Susan in 1963. Here the Division catches up with her. They force her to regenerate into Hartnell Doc, erasing his memories and implanting false memories of a life and childhood as this iteration of the Doctor on Gallifrey. They give him a false memory of having escaped Gallirey in a stolen TARDIS. They press Susan into going along with this and point out that she’ll have to get used to saying “Grandfather” instead of “Grandmother”.
By the way, I should point out that in the several years I have contributed to Theories on the board, I have never once gotten one single thing right. 🙂
20 January 2024 at 13:57 #75317Welcome back!
Thanks! Looking forward to lots more bonkers theorizing.
But her change of feeling regarding her neighbour from the beginning of the episode to the end still still seems a bit puzzling.
I had to go back and re-watch. You’re right, it is a bit odd. The only thing I could think of is that seeing the Tardis and remembering her own adventures brightened her whole attitude to everything. Seems a bit week, so maybe we’ll learn more about what her back story is.
I’m gonna toss out a bet that we’re going to see her as a young companion to some other, pre-police-box Doctor in a spinoff. This Doc doesn’t remember her because he doesn’t remember ANY of the pre-Hartnell days. And she asked the Doctor “Who are you?” So she doesn’t know about regeneration and he doesn’t look like her Doctor. But also notice that he doesn’t tell her who he is as he normally would. Otherwise if he’d said, “I’m the Doctor” she would have reacted to that. She only knows (or assumes) he is some Time Lord.
As for who is Ruby’s mum, I keep focussing on the shoes she is wearing as the Doctor looks at her from afar after she leaves Ruby at the church door. Yet I have no idea why I focus on the shoes.
Huh, not sure. I re-watched that too. I don’t see anything specific about her shoes. Except… is it me? It almost looks like she doesn’t leave any footprints in the snow.
Ah well, onward to spring!
16 January 2024 at 15:26 #75313Hello all. Been a while, but ready to get bonkers again.
So this ep. Overall I enjoyed it, but was not a fan of the whole goblin musical number. I hope this is just a one-off Christmas Special kind of thing.
Who is Ruby Sunday’s mom? Well… River Song DOES have the same initials! Hmm….
Mrs. Flood: I don’t think she’s going to be the high-end mystery everyone is hoping for. I think the name is just a way of provoking all kinds of bonkers theories. I don’t think she’s part of the Doctor’s past. That is, the part we KNOW about. I think she will turn out to be a pre-Hartnell (actually pre-Dr. Ruth) companion. Here’s why:
1. She’s been around the city a long time, knows what a police box is and only identifies it as that when she first sees it. So human and on Earth (London?) for many years.
2. She reacts with shock, dropping her shopping bags when she sees it dematerialize. If she’d recognized it before she shouldn’t have been shocked.
3. After that her attitude changes dramatically. She is happy and fairly glowing about what she’s seen.
4. She encourages Ruby to go ahead, go inside. Like: You’re in for the adventure of a lifetime. This is the attitude of someone who has been a companion, once long ago and wants to see someone else have that experience.
5. She tells us specifically that she knows what a TARDIS is. But since she didn’t recognize this one right away, she was not familiar with the police box shape. So a shape BEFORE the police box.
All this is easily explainable as someone who travelled with the Doctor BEFORE the TARDIS took on it’s iconic shape. Why the Doctor and not some other Time Lord? Well who else picks up human companions and takes them on adventures? 🙂
27 October 2022 at 15:53 #73625@devilishrobby, I have no doubt that some kind of cosmic (celestial?) influence is at work. My bet is on something more like an illusion rather than a “true” incarnation. I think Ncuti Gatwa will be the 14th Doctor. And — Rule #1 — RTD lies! 😀
27 October 2022 at 14:34 #73623Some bonkers thoughts about the 60th trailer:
It starts with the new Doctor (I’m gonna call him Tenn-Doc) saying, “I don’t know who I am anymore”.
Why? The last thing this version of the Doctor said was that he “[didn’t] want to go”. Moreover, the Curator already predicted that he would “revisit a few” old favorite faces.
So why is he confused? He should be delighted.
And then at the end we see Gat-Doc angrily asking, “What the hell is going on here?!”
Not what JUST HAPPENED? What IS GOING ON? Meaning it is not something that he just regenerated out of, but is something that is still happening.
Does this tell us that he is switching between himself and Tenn-Doc?!
And if so, who else might he be switching into? I may be pushing this a bit, but Tenn-Doc’s new modified costume looks suspiciously like an amalgamation of the 10ths and the 12ths outfits.
And if I REALLY wanted to push it, Tenn-Doc’s new tie COULD be tied into a bow….
Hmm….
26 October 2022 at 18:03 #73615I’m not big on plot as a means of fan service, which this felt like a lot of.
That said, there is a fan moment I would have appreciated: if Kate had one last encounter with the Master where she walks up to him saying, “Nice to see you again,” and then decks him. Adding, “That’s for dad.”
13 July 2022 at 12:05 #73300It’s crazy, and therefore I like it!
lol. That’s why where here, right?
But back to your great idea, why why the 10th?
The 10th is the only one we know about. The only one deliberately shown being filmed (aka generating a buzz). For all we know he will only be seen for a brief time before degenerating further.
Or if there are multiple split-degenerations, we could many of them at once, even Classic Doctors.
13 July 2022 at 00:26 #73298Had another bonkers idea:
What if something goes wrong with the regeneration. Perhaps brought about by the new Big Bad.
The regeneration process is reversed, the Doctor undergoes a DEgeneration. It results in a variant version of 10. Not only that, it may even create a series of splinter previous alternate Docs. Each could be played by the original actor but with all kinds of differences (and ages).
25 June 2022 at 18:00 #73258@devilishrobby and @blenkinsopthebrave, thanks for the feedback. I have changed my mind a little. The Trickster isn’t a very good fit for the character. But then, for me, neither is the Toymaker. I just can’t reconcile the image of NPH with that character.
I still think we’re looking at an Alternate/Altered reality. I still think it happened at the time of Turn Left. I think it changed the way Donna behaved during the Runaway Bride.
I think Alternate Donna stayed with Alternate Doctor and it was HER instead of Martha who travelled with him to the year 100 trillion where they met…
Alternate Professor Yana.
THAT looks much more like the character we see in the post (to me).
23 June 2022 at 21:53 #73255Because it’s RTD and Donna with what appears to be an alternate Ten, I am going to take a page from “Turn Left” and say this has to do with the Trickster. Perhaps Neil Patrick Harris is a member of his Brigade…?
15 June 2022 at 15:35 #73245A bit of trivia on this: the original script for Day of the Doctor called for a poster of the first Peter Cushing movie to be in the background in the Black Archives. But I guess they had copywrite issues with it.
It was the joke for when Kate Stewart remarks on what would happen if Americans got hold of time travel. “You’ve seen their movies!”
16 November 2021 at 20:47 #72424Ok, so they’ve already telegraphed how 13 is going to die: broken by messing around in her timestream.
She wants to go back to find clues to her hidden past life.
Except… she already has one! Karnavista. Wouldn’t it be best to just look him up again and say, “I know I used to work with you. Tell me what you know.” Gotta be less risky than timestreaming…
16 November 2021 at 20:04 #72423Going back for a re-watch because frankly I haven’t figured out enough to comment yet.
Except this: Vindar reported that the Grand Serpent’s condition for the alliance was the deaths of some innocent people.
The commander scoffs at this: “It wasn’t on the recording”.
Vindar: “He made me stop the recording.”
Um… isn’t The Grand Serpent saying, “Stop the recording,” ON the recording??
10 November 2021 at 20:25 #72344Had one other random thought:
They didn’t say it outright, but I got the impression that the Sontarans failed to recognize 13 as the Doctor because they were assuming he would be a man.
But I thought they couldn’t tell the difference between genders.
10 November 2021 at 00:00 #72342@blenkinsopthebrave Actually, as I think about it, I suppose that could be a resolution to Yaz’s story–i.e. the Doctor discovers her reality, while Yaz either goes off to explore the universe in her reality or returns to Earth (again, her reality), hopefully with the memories of her adventures with the Doctor intact.
Oh I like that idea! Otherwise, I already baked an out into my theory. :p
“She may be slipping back and forth between the two Realities without even knowing it.”
Yaz is from our Reality, and has been slipping into the other one while travelling with the Doctor. 😀
Enjoy your tea!
9 November 2021 at 22:48 #72339@devilishrobby lol. Isn’t bonkers theorising what we do here.
Heh, yep. But I was afraid I was out of practice.
@blenkinsopthebrave Now that is a bonkers theory. I like it!
I particularly like the idea that the Doctor is the real Doctor, but everything we have seen over the last three years has taken place in an alternate reality.
Thanks. I confess to this particular theory being motivated for that very reason. 🙂 I’ve not been overwhelmed by the Timeless Child arc and would honestly like to see it glossed over.
Another advantage is it cleans up the messy stuff with Doctor Ruth. Explains how she can be in the Police Box and yet unaware of the Sonic.
@mudlark Bonkers, yes, but in the best possible way 🙂 An alternative reality as the context of so much that has happened in recent Doctor Who episodes would suit me all too well, and would be a very happy solution to some of the questions raised by Chibnall’s clumsy attempt to set a permanent stamp on the show.
It’s not that I have any problem in principle with the Doctor having a back story which we were previously unaware of, but I have found it difficult to come to terms with this particular back story
Agreed. It just seems like such an overreach. It’s one thing to add an element to the cannon, like the name of the Doctor’s home planet. I am all for giving us some new, unexpected twist. But this invents an entire separate narrative that can barely be squeezed into the existing structure. How, for example, has the Doctor managed to go 1,100 plus years without so much as a hint of this? He’s run into his other selves several times, but somehow only post-Division?? And yet the wormy things plucked the hidden memories of past lives right out of her head after seeing her only a few hours. And just before the Master discovers it for himself. Yeah, no. Not working for me.
I am holding out hope for the rest of the Flux arc, though.
9 November 2021 at 18:58 #72332Hello all. Been a long time!
But this is the first time in a while I’ve felt a bit bonkers.
I enjoyed this ep more than I thought I would. The Sontaran story is a bit boilerplate but was ok for that. The main plot, anyway. The sub-plot in contemporary Liverpool was a little sappy.
Felt like a standalone ep shoe-horned into the main arc, which is also fine. Wouldn’t be the first time in the history of Who where that’s been done! 🙂
The remainder of the story – sub-plot point 2 with Yaz and Vindar – is where I’m ready to trot out my bonkers thoughts. And here goes!
It is a Portal to “The Divide”.
What we’ve been seeing over 3 years has been happening in an Alternate Reality. Since 13 regenerated. She slipped through to another universe, where she doesn’t belong. That’s why the TARDIS was trying to eject her. (It might even be an Alternate TARDIS.)
She may be slipping back and forth between the two Realities without even knowing it. Well… maybe sensing it but not sure.
This Alternate Reality has its own Doctors and even Masters, whom we’ve seen.
In between the two Realities is an area of Anti-Time known as The Divide. It is inhabited by Anti-Time Lords, like Swarm, Azure and Passenger.
The Alternate Time Lords created a special force – The Division (get it?) – to monitor the Divide and keep the Anti-Time Lords at bay. Division Doctors have done battle with the Anti-Time Lords before, and Swarm may not even realize he’s dealing with a Doctor from a different Reality who has no knowledge of him (assuming that is just part of the standard Division practice of mind-wiping).
Now something has gone wrong. The same something that propelled 13 into the Alternate Reality.
I think the something is the Flux: Perhaps the Anti-Time Lord’s version of the Moment, used in their own Time War. Like an Anti-Moment! It somehow broke through the Divide. Or is expanding out of The Divide on both sides and into The Alternate (and possibly both) Realities.
Or… I’m just bonkers.
1 February 2020 at 13:02 #69519@mudlark I like that hypothesis! I’m gonna have to noodle on it a bit more. As far as what we find out is really happening being more mundane? Well… that IS the sub-title of the discussion board, isn’t it? 🙂
btw…tying in with that Christmas episode is something that popped into my head as I was watching. The remark(s) about the sonic screwdriver were very similar to the ones Brad-Doc made in “Twice Upon a Time”.
1 February 2020 at 12:47 #69518<span style=”color: #333333;”><span style=”font-family: Arimo, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;”><span style=”font-size: small;”>So I suppose the answer is that it’s a perfectly allowable retcon to say that a </span></span></span><span style=”color: #333333;”><span style=”font-family: Arimo, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;”><span style=”font-size: small;”>fully working</span></span></span><span style=”color: #333333;”><span style=”font-family: Arimo, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;”><span style=”font-size: small;”> TARDIS has transmat facilities, but the current Doctor’s TARDIS transmat is not working.</span></span></span>
<p align=”left”><span style=”color: #333333;”><span style=”font-family: Arimo, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;”><span style=”font-size: small;”>That said, I am getting the feel that the Martin Doctor is either between Troughton and Pertwee or pre Hartnell. Either way, the Martin Doctor has a fully working TARDIS. Possibly because it was repaired, then un-repaired when they exiled the Pertwee Doctor</span></span></span></p>Whoo! That’s a lot of jockeying to get there, @bluesqueakpip! :p It would mean there is a transmat access to the TARDIS that no Doctor has bothered to repair since then.
Also not “fully working” because it means they would have repaired the transmat but NOT the chameleon circuit. And then broken the transmat again.
I think its presence is much more easily explained as part of a parallel Who-niverse.
30 January 2020 at 13:34 #69489> @mudlark: The reviewer in question clearly lacks imagination
I can forgive that. But not knowing basic facts like we have not witnessed all the regenerations?? Unforgivable! :p
Thanks for the invite to the spoilers discussion. But I have decided to go spoiler free this series.
After a rewatch, here is my big question:
Since when does a Hartnell-ish era Doctor have transmat access to the TARDIS??
Seems much later Doctory to me…
28 January 2020 at 20:35 #69465Hi @blenkinsopthebrave, Thanks!
ETA: Just watched a reviewer claim that another unknown Doctor can’t be wedged in to the lore because we’ve seen all the regenerations.
Untrue: We never actually saw Two to Three. So if they wanted to squeeze in another Forgotten Doc, it could be done. But I don’t think so.
28 January 2020 at 18:48 #69461I’m going with WhitDoc is in a parallel universe. Has been since her Regen. That’s why the TARDIS went nuts and tossed her out.
And why she didn’t recognize the Stenza.
FWIW, it means we could meet other parallel Docs who might have had different fates, different deaths, different regens.
Cue the appearance of one of the Classic Docs!
P.S. Hello all. Been a while!
10 July 2017 at 20:30 #6053710 July 2017 at 16:12 #60534@craig Somewhere long ago I stumbled on a “making of” video of The Curse. It has interviews with the cast and Moffat as well. Might be worth adding it to this page. I’ll try to track it down somewhere.
Thanks.
10 July 2017 at 13:21 #60510@ichabod @lisa @janetteb @jimthefish
I think I am most drawn to the notion of this being a Full Circle kind of thing. Where 13 is the 1 of the new cycle. (I’m sticking with the Classic Numbering System, sorry War Doctor. 😉 )
I do agree that rehashing Susan as she was would never work. But I don’t think it would have to be like that. Since it would be a regeneration, we would really be able to see a whole new Susan personality develop.
Also, should the next Doctor be young and male again, traveling with his granddaughter would be the simplest way to remove any hints of romance.
I am pretty convinced of at least a cameo though. PC got his wish with the Mondasian Cybermen, so why not the Christmas gift he’s always wanted.
Fingers crossed…
9 July 2017 at 00:34 #60480@jimthefish I just had another thought as I awoke from a nap. How’s that for hopeless fan? 😉
Twelve takes One to see Susan (played by Carole Ann Ford of course) who is now old and nearing regeneration. Which she does. Becoming the new, younger Susan and Thirteen’s new companion!
She’ll be pretty sassy and refer to him as “GranDoc”. 🙂
7 July 2017 at 16:31 #60456@jimthefish [sigh] No, probably not. I never get my wish. Even at Christmas. :p
I’ll settle for the fangasm, though! lol… (settles in to wait…)
7 July 2017 at 14:37 #60453@ichabod Thanks!
I know others like @blenkinsopthebrave are thinking its more likely that Doctor One will be the Clarence of the story, rather than CapDoc. However, I am rather keen on the twist of the teacher becoming the taught.
In other words, Twelve is all against regenerating, but when he stubbornly explains its virtues to One he inadvertently teaches himself.
It would be too good to be true to have old the old Docs being paid a visit, though, wouldn’t it?
Only thing I’m wondering is: in order to demonstrate that not regenerating was a bad thing, they would all have to be a sort of crotchety and bitter version of their older selves. So would that be a fun and quirky thing? (The actor’s could certainly have fun with it.) Or would it sort of spoil the character a bit?
5 July 2017 at 20:58 #60415Hey @wolfweed. Thanks for the comics! Very cool.
I always thought it would have been interesting to have Two killed by the Time Lords by aging him to death. That way, he could have been teleported out in the middle of it and appear as a much older version of himself. And then teleported back at the exact moment he was taken away.
Come to think of it, could do the same thing with Ten. Pull him from the Master’s age-ifying laser screwdriver after he’s gotten on in years. Let David Tenant be Ten again and explain why he’s older.
5 July 2017 at 20:15 #60413@<span class=”useratname”>blenkinsopthebrave</span> Thanks! But sometimes I think I shouldn’t postulate what I actually want to see. Since I am never right! lol. I should theorize what I DON’T want to see.
Actually if Moff really wanted to give fans an out-going treat, he’d find a way to give us the missing Two-Into-Three regen!
5 July 2017 at 18:26 #60408First off, congrats to everyone who predicted the return of Heather. Well done!
And kudos to myself for maintaining my perfect record of Not Getting it Right. :p
Stand-out moments: Missy dying. How did they manage to make that sad?! But they did!
SimmMaster getting aroused by himself. Gold! As was the music.
And now on to Bonkers for Christmas…
Loving the It’s a Wonderful Ideas! Only it will be “It’s a Wonderful Death”. The story of why the Doctor dying and regenerating is a good thing after all!
We are on the South Pole, shortly after the first defeat of the Cybermen in “The Tenth Planet”. The Doctor (One) has rushed off, leaving Ben and Polly behind. He knows he is about to die and regenerate and is grumbling bitterly about it.
Twelve chastises him, telling him how selfish he’s being! “After all, if you don’t regenerate there’ll never be a me!”
In order to prove his point to One, CapDoc takes him on a journey through what-if universes. Inside the TARDIS, One remarks, “You’ve redecorated…! I quite like like!”
In the what-if universes we meet iterations of the Doctor that would have been if he hadn’t died and regenerated. Maybe ALL of them! Older, maybe more cynical. Unhappy because of all the things they didn’t accomplish by “renewing” themselves.
Also we get to see most of the original actors playing these roles.
For Two and Three you merely need actors in enough aging prosthetics that you can’t quite recognize them.
As a special treat, CapDoc takes One to 22nd Century London to reunite briefly with Susan and to fulfill his promise to come back.
30 June 2017 at 14:55 #60024@thane15 Yes, see… you just had to noodle on it.
29 June 2017 at 16:31 #59952@pedant Or an entire pirate….
LOL!
And we haven’t even considered spaghettification…
Is that part of Pastafarianism?
The Theory of Rotini
Or… Carb Annuity errors?
29 June 2017 at 15:15 #5994329 June 2017 at 15:09 #59942@thane15 I’m not saying that continuity errors should be excused continually but there does seem to be a fair group of people who, for whatever reason, bring this up. Often as part of a wider discussion to do with: a) the science doesn’t work b) we never see how Doctor 12 and Companion A survive a particular devastating experience or c) the ducks in the pond were never explained. Oh! and d) (my personal fave) “how can love ever save the day?”
I think it might help if we were all clearer on what is meant by “continuity errors”. I believe, in the strictest sense, it refers to boo-boos on the part of the production staff rather than plot or character flaws.
Clara saying she was born under a clock (and that idea never being revisited) is NOT a continuity error. (I’m not sure it can be considered an “error” at all since she is merely telling children a bedtime story, there is really no reason to take her literally or expect it to be followed up on.) So… <nitpick> even if it was a “mistake” – say, they intended to get back to that and forgot about it – it might be a plot flaw, but not a “continuity error”.</nitpick>
A continuity error would be something like a piece of costume appearing and disappearing from a character throughout a scene. It would be an editing mistake where the actor and/or dresser forgot to put a belt or badge back on between different takes of the same scene and no one catching it in the final cut.
Contrast this to Doc 11 talking to Amy in “Flesh and Stone”: what LOOKS like a continuity error (the Doctors clothes changing from one cut to another) turns out to be deliberate. We are seeing a future Doctor talking to her.
Is the clock moving backwards? (BRILLIANT observation, btw @blenkinsopthebrave :O) Intended. Or did someone in post-editing add the images in in the wrong order? A continuity error.
Sorry, I’m talking like I know I’m talking about. I’m just parroting back what I’ve read. I welcome corrections on it. 🙂
28 June 2017 at 20:00 #59880@nick I suppose you’re right. You’re going to make me (grudgingly) admit that we just have a different viewing sensibility now. A shorter attention sp… hey look, a new YouTube video!
28 June 2017 at 19:56 #59879Don’t know why, but I was just thinking how funny it would have been for Cyber-Bill at the end to say “Doc – tor Who – oo. You are Doc – tor Who – oo.”
‘Course the weren’t really going for funny at the moment… :p
28 June 2017 at 19:25 #59877@nick You’re reply to jimthefish sums up the he situation in BG Who better than I wrote.
Thanks. Even if it was a slightly little long winded sum-up. 😉
Some of the very best Who stories, certainly in BG era, benefit from a mysterious build up, setting the scene and the key characters. I think one problem with many AG stories is that they jump into heart of the story has been too fast.
I couldn’t agree with you more. But surely this is the cost of going from a serialized story that has the luxury of 2 or 3 hours total time down to 45 minutes. Short cuts have to be made, so best to make them in places where its a little more routine. Best example of this I read (sorry, don’t remember where) was the chestnut of having the hero drive up to where the action is taking place and very luckily finding a parking space right in front! We’re kind of willing to overlook this coincidence cuz we really rather get on with the story than circle the lot a few time. :p
28 June 2017 at 13:22 #59841@tardigrade I’ve interpreted that to mean that TLs tend to recognise each other when directly talking to each other- a skill that would be handy when friends can regenerate into completely new bodies…
I would agree with this. In The Five Doctors, Three didn’t immediately recognize the Master (admittedly though he was in a stolen body) but did catch on after a few moments conversation.
Ten only suspected who Eleven was until the latter produced the (man-sized) Sonic.
A “hybrid”, when it can be interpreted metaphorically, is so general that I think it qualifies as a Barnum statement, so is pretty much useless as a prophecy.
Actually I would say that makes it IDEAL for a prophesy. Don’t they usually rely on ambiguity?
@jimthefish My main problem is that their introduction constricted the Whoniverse far too much.
You make an interesting point here, and I don’t really disagree with you. However I am not sure you can “blame” the introduction of the Time Lords for it. It seems to me the situation you describe is going to be inevitable in any program with great longevity. Themes will repeat, characters (especially popular ones) will reappear. If the TLs had never been added to the Whoniverse, the Doctor himself would still have ultimately gained a reputation, become known to greater numbers of people. Been remembered by reappearing enemies. So that mystery of the Great Unknown of the early years would have gradually diminished under pretty much any circumstances. I think what having the TLs might do is allow the writers to take an easy out. In the same way they can (and often do) with the Sonic. Jump to a ready-made explanation. And I am not even saying that is always bad. The psychic paper CAN be over used. On the other hand, we all know the Doctor will (and needs to) take control of the situation. It saves a lot of time and redundant exposition to short-cut him into the leadership role.
Okay, now *I* am rambling too long. Feel free to slap my wrist as well. 🙂
Wanted to add a side-note re the discussion of the Doctor’s name and whether he is “officially” Doctor Who: Without looking up the specifics, there is a Tom Baker ep where there is a case of mistaken identity, and Four cheekily says “No one knows Who’s Who around here.”
27 June 2017 at 18:48 #59797Personally I’m not too troubled by Missy not remembering being on the colony ship. Seems to be a side-effect of TL’s meeting themselves. Ten and Eleven had an entire conversation about not remembering the events. “How can you not remember this?” “Hey, its not my fault! Obviously you weren’t paying attention!” Hell, Eleven didn’t even remember having fooled around with a Zygon!
The whole-thing-was-a-simulation would disappoint me. Pretty cliche. I’d have to vote the same for “we’ll just re-write history.” It would make me think: Oh good, no more danger now. All you have to do is go back and fix it. Five even got very bent out of shape when they suggested he should go back and save Adric.
Here’s a weird thought that just came to me: (okay, what thought have I expressed yet that HASN’T been weird?! 😛 ) When Bill talks about Missy being a murderer, the Doctor points out that she is blithely eating a bacon sandwich and to remember that it had parents before she takes such high moral ground. But… isn’t that remark a much more Master/Missy thing to say?! Are we sure at least some of what we’ve seen Twelve do hasn’t really been the Master in disguise?
26 June 2017 at 19:00 #59729@jimthefish Lets not forget Romana trying on new regens like she was shopping for a dress! Lol…
26 June 2017 at 18:15 #59721First thoughts:
LOVED IT! I was also too engrossed in it to catch Razor being SimMaster. Felt silly that I missed it, too. :p
I liked the “Doctor Who” stuff at the beginning. It was so clearly poking fun at fans, especially the ones who get a bit bent out of shape when he is called “Doctor Who”.
Along these lines, though, I thought what was a bit too on-the-nose, was PC’s exclamation “A Mondasian Cyberman!”.
It felt to me like it was a little parting gift to PC from Moffat. PC has said for most of his run that he really wanted to have them Mondasian Cybermen brought back. Moff gave him his wish and put the icing on the cake when he got to call them by that name. Because honestly otherwise, why would the Doctor use that specific (Who Cannon) name for them? TO him they should just all be “Cybermen”.
I LOVED the tear drop at the end. Brilliant! Besides the emotional impact it was clearly intended to connect the Mondasian cyberman with plain round eyes to the later configuration with the tear drop. Total nerd-gasm.
@jimthefish I quite like the theory that it’s an in-disguise Missy regenerating rather than the Doctor
This IS an interesting idea! But allow me to modify it a bit:
Suppose Missy appearing to be working with SimMaster at the end is a ploy. And she winds up betraying him (herself?)
The regen is NOT Missy in disguise but SimMaster. His “No!” is in anger because Missy has betrayed him (leading to his regen) and he now knows he has failed to correct his nice-girl future and is about to regenerate into Missy.Whoo! Come to think of it, imagine seeing what appears to be PC regen into Missy! Then to find out…
Oh No! And if IS the SimMaster in disguise, then mightn’t that have been him also in all those weird maniacal raggedy Doctor scenes this season?? That would mean SimMaster saved Missy from execution. I’m making my own head spin here…
14 June 2017 at 14:18 #59083Hey all!
No bonkers theories this time. (Despite the attempt at the end to urge us into one. 🙂 )
I did enjoy the episode. Noticed several people talked about it being fun and light, but it really wasn’t to me. One of them more serious Gatiss ones, I thought.
Show of hands: who would want to see PC sing to Aggedor! 😀
6 June 2017 at 14:01 #58636@nick “that also means that D12 and D3 both spent several years living on Earth at the same time”
Hah! That’s a great thought! 😀 I wonder if that’s how UNIT got their decades confused.
6 June 2017 at 12:37 #58634@thane15 was that your most bonkerist-bonkerested idea? Whoa! Tripping. I like it.
Yes, probably. I will just keep getting worse until stopped or de-bonked.
(P.S.) Not turned into chalk. Turned into that hard green foam stuff they put in the vases for plastic flowers.)
6 June 2017 at 12:32 #58633@blenkinsopthebrave and @nerys I remember the first time I saw that Trek episode, too. I would probably have been about 13. However, even then I was pretty weird. And while I was also very disturbed by the cold ease with which the woman was killed, I also distinctly remember thinking: “She was turned into that hard foam stuff they put in the vases for plastic flowers.”
(P.S.) At least it wasn’t green bubble wrap!)
5 June 2017 at 19:52 #58594@nick I guess I’m thinking that we can’t take anything we’ve heard this season to be completely accurate. But rather smeared through the Doctor’s hazy perspective.
The repeated notions of reality not being reality and things remembered not being what they really were lends some weight to this.
For instance, for all we know, Bill knows all about regeneration because she witnessed it. The reality we’ve been seeing is the Doctor’s distorted one.
5 June 2017 at 18:55 #58589@blenkinsopthebrave Thanks! Nothing like an insane explanation to explain insane behavior. :p
@nick Good point! I guess it doesn’t have to have occurred at the end of Oxygen. Could be at any point in the series. May have something to do with the tatty jacket and its strange reappearance?
5 June 2017 at 18:09 #58582I think I’m going to join the ranks of “not my favorite”. I didn’t hate it, and some of it was quite good. But a lot of it was just odd and jarring.
I am with @jimthefish on this one: Trying to stitch otherwise stand-alone episodes into a story arc is problematic and in all likelihood will show its scars at the joins: or sew it would seam.
So now I feel like going full-on bonkers so I can alleviate the jarring sense of unevenness:
The Doctor IS behaving erratically. Bordering on a bit of madness. The cackling on the prow of the ship, for instance. Why? We saw why! Or rather, we’ve caught glimpses of it.
The Doctor did more than just go blind at the end of Oxygen. Or rather, that’s not what happened to him at all!
He died! And then regenerated. And he has been Doctor 13 since then! But in his post-regenerative madness he doesn’t even realize it himself. He only catches glimpse of reality, like re-imagining his regeneration as a prank to pull on Bill.
The big reveal at the end of the series will be that he is already the next Doctor, and he (and we) will see his new look for the first time when his mind goes back to normal. And of course a flashback to the regen.
Thus the events of the Monks Trilogy are only partly reality. Made fuzzy and somewhat surreal by his warped perspective.
30 May 2017 at 18:20 #58284 -
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