OK, here’s the link to the “Last Christmas” extra (which, by the way, is lots of fun, so I thank @Nine9 for mentioning it). I watched it all the way through but didn’t hear anything about Jenna staying or going, so there must be another extra that I’ve missed? Dunno.

@Arbutus In my view, the tangerine on the window was meant to allow the audience…

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@Nine9 @JanetteB @nerys

In my view, the tangerine on the window was meant to allow the audience (and most importantly, the children in the audience) to believe if they choose to that Santa was real. There was no way that Moffat was ever going to write a Christmas episode, knowing that many families watch with small children, and have it shown…[Read more]

@Nine9 And I love that my comments are not appreciated for simply making a statement that Santa Claus is not real.

I don’t think that’s the problem. I think it’s more an issue of stating opinion as fact. You said that “Making Santa Claus real in the Who universe or in any universe would be terribly wrong. He cannot be real.” That may well be your…[Read more]

@Nine9

Jenna talks about it in the Extra of “Last Christmas”

Total horseshit. There was absolutely nothing that could remotely be interpreted that way in the Extra.

Do you think nobody here watched it?

@Craig @JimTheFish – one to keep an eye on.

@nine9 There is a difference between believing in something and enjoying the suspension of disbelief. I for one would have been very disappointed has this episode not allowed for that but this is a Moffat story and you can read it differently to me because Moffat’s writing allows for that.

cheers

Janette

so it is our fault that we haven’t…[Read more]

@Nine9 Not all cultures have access to Dr Who either and I think you will find that most cultures are aware of Santa/Father Christmas even if they don’t celebrate Christmas. (I saw plenty of Santa images in Istanbul for instance.) Secondly if JC confirmed that she was intending to leave then I am wrong but you forget that not all of us have acess…[Read more]

@Nine9 I’m not sure the point is really whether any of us wants Santa Claus to be real. I think many of us are happy to entertain the “what if” fantasy of Santa Claus being real, which is a nice bit of escapism from the drudgery (and worse) of our world. I can think of things far worse than wanting Santa Claus to be real. And I think part of the…[Read more]

@Nine9 That is speculation not fact. One dubious news source claimed that JC was quitting and they may have simply been wrong.

Cheers

Janette

@Nine9 I said that we like to occasionally suspend disbelief, after all isn’t that what we do whenever we sit in front of a TV screen or pick up a book, and what parents wouldn’t want there to be a kindly person who delivers presents to our children every Christmas. Think of the savings!! (not to mention an early night on Christmas eve.)

Cheers

Janette

@Nine9 It is left to the veiwer to read that as they will, after all no rational explanation is given for the moving chalk. Moffat ensures that we can never be entirely certain one way or the other.

Cheers

Janette

@Nine9 Making Santa Claus real in the Who universe or in any universe would be terribly wrong. He cannot be real. By the end of the episode we are left to ask ourselves if they are still dreaming or if anything of what happened was real. It could also be Missy behind all that.

I disagree … but then that’s what opinions are all about. My…[Read more]

@Nine9 I think you are forgetting that the series is not written for aging fans who have been watching since Hartnell but for fans ranging from age four to 104. The existance of Santa must at least be presented as a possibility and not least for the older fans too because at Christmas we all, regardless of age, want to believe in the existance of…[Read more]

@Nine9

Thank you for opening up the conversation.

I am beginning to wonder whether part of the reason for the Robin Hood episode was to introduce the audience to the idea that characters who are fictional in our universe might be real in the Whoniverse.

This means that we can’t be sure whether or not Santa is real – in fact, even by the end…[Read more]

@Nine9 @Bluesqueakpip @purofilion

 I really think that it should do much more and bring characters back as well.

Well, I suppose if you are going to be wrong you might as well be comprehensively wrong.

“Meme” was a term coined by Richard Dawkins for, as stated above, an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a c…[Read more]

@Nine9

Are you aware that the story is yet to be filmed and you are judging/dismissing something that hasn’t been made yet?

Are you aware that you signed up six hours ago, and you haven’t posted on anything apart from the possible return of the Celestial Toymaker?

What are your other theories or observations on Last Christmas? While people d…[Read more]

@Nine9

real magic because it doesn’t exist

Have you watched Battlefield? Or the Shakespeare Code?

Any sufficiently advanced form of magic is indistinguishable from technology

[The Seventh Doctor]

Also, as Santa Claus’ species is listed as ‘Guardian’, one would come to the logical conclusion that he would be The Celestial Toymake…

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@Nine9

One of life’s little mysteries, the Celestial Toymaker fan club. It’s not even as if it was a much loved story at the time.

So, what are your other theories or thoughts on this episode? Not involving the Celestial Toymaker?

What is it about the Celestial Toymaker?

Is it that story that he was due to return in Season 23 of the BG series? Because it’s like some kind of weird meme; every year someone starts saying ‘they should bring the Celestial Toymaker back’. To shouts of ‘who the heck is the Celestial Toymaker??’

The GI was brought back, I think, partly because…[Read more]

@Nine9

I tend to agree with you that Moffat could bring back a character from BG Who (after all, he brought back the Great Intelligence, and there would have very few people, aside from old ruins like myself, who would have been aware of the GI).

But I also agree with @pedant in this case, as Moffat would need an exceptionally good reason to…[Read more]

@Nine9

I think the odds of it being The Celestial Toymaker, or anything else from significantly before the bulk of the modern audience has been alive are somewhere adjacent to zero.