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  • #2651
    Anonymous @

    The Grauniad has started up its Who blog again looking at past episodes. This week An Unearthly Child.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/feb/14/doctor-who-classic-episode-an-unearthly-child

    It’s a nice idea but I hope it doesn’t impact on our new happy home here…

    #2653
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Quite a nice little video of Michael Scott talking about his Second Doctor adventure in the short story series. It’s available on the 23rd (of course). I got the first one by Eoin Colfer and it was pretty good, if a little contrived in places. I have higher hopes for this one.

    #2655
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Oh, and if you haven’t got a Kindle, or other eReader, but want to check them out, Amazon has recently released a free Kindle reading App for PC – there’s probably one for Mac too, I just haven’t looked.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000426311

    Maybe we could start posting reviews.

    #2657
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    @jimthefish

    It’s interesting that the new Guardian blog says it will be open until the 50th celebrations in November.  It does sound like they are trying to tempt us back – the last few Dr Who related comments sections have been rather sparse affairs.

    I’ll just toddle over there now to nosy about…

    #2659
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @jimthefish. There is always room for two blogs, and Dan Brown did bring us altogether, after all. BUT, I would very very cautious about inviting people over here. It would be good if this could remain a troll-free zone.

    #2661
    Whisht @whisht

    I agree @blenkinsopthebrave, but we’ll scare them off with our avatars…

    #2663
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Well, they’ve finally got the Chrome ‘find’ function working properly. But there’s still no way of finding the latest comment, short of actually typing the current hour into ‘find’ and then doing a search.

    #2665
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Add a “plus one” for entire disinterest in the 3-D special. I’ll be watching the old fashioned 2-D spectacular on normal HD thanks.

    It does occur though that the BBC has a separate fund for 3-D filming that can be drawn on by any department (last year Wimbledon, a couple of Olympic events, the Queen’s speech and “Mr Stink” at Christmas. May be a way to secure additional funding to chuck some more money at the screen. The limited theatrical release may also enable some additional funding to come through Worldwide, so who knows?

    #2667
    Anonymous @

    And the Torygraph today has a story — well, a rumour-mill-fest follow-up from the Mirror, saying that the anniversary special may feature all 11 Doctors…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/9873159/Doctor-Who-anniversary-show-to-reunite-all-11-Time-Lords.html

    Not sure how much stock I’d put in that one, but there it is….

    #2669
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    and Dan Brown did bring us altogether

    It’s heresy to suggest that I have ever read the Da Vinci Code. 🙂

    As @chickenelly points out – I thnk it’s unheard of for a blog on the Guardian to be open that long. Look at how many of us have requested something similar in the past!

    I might nip along later and make a quick comment regurgitating something from our “Faces” thread, but, in the meantime, I have to catchup on a weeks worth of comments here. Hopefully, I will have more time this weekend to post. I had some bizarre thoughts about “The Snowmen” and Oswin that I wanted to post, but will have to think them through a bit.

    #2683
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @blenkinsopthebrave With The Master and Ming the Merciless as moderators the trolls will not be a problem. Ha ha ha! [Twirls moustache]

    #2685
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    With The Master and Ming the Merciless as moderators the trolls will not be a problem. Ha ha ha! [Twirls moustache]

    Too right! 🙂 @craig and @phaseshift !

    Yes – a pretty interesting development over at The Guardian. Someone has been doing market research on our blog!

    I say let’s interact over there and over here and mention our wonderful Who-haven occasionally and not treat them as competition but as interesting interactive spaces.

    We have a nicer sofa tho’!

    <Waves at everyone> work has been absolutely slaying me of late but I’ll drop back in and catch up at some point over the weekend (in between more work)

    La Juniperfish

     

    #2687
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @phaseshift. Ha! bit of a blunder, what? You eagle-eyed moderator, you!

    @jimthefish. I think the Torygraph is just re-cycling a very old rumour.

    The fact that they are NOT reporting a 4th wallreturn of Canton theory shows how little impact I have on the net. Good thing too.

    #2689
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    I always laugh when they say “using old footage”. This may sound crazy but Moffat has already done the Eleven Doctors “using old footage”. Did you miss it? It was at the end of “The Eleventh Hour”.

    That’s why I thought it was so brilliant. That’s probably why I scared the shit out of him when I shook his hand and told him he’d done a f***king great job (may have been the shaved head and accent as well).

    Eleven Doctors… First ever episode on the job… Job done! As they used to say on the West Wing, what next? So far, so good.

    #2691
    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave — yep, I think you’re probably right. Interesting how much prominence it’s being given on the front page though. Although I suspect that it’s more to do with the fact that the Torygraph is now thinking that it has to up its Who’s 5oth anniversary coverage in line with the Guardian…

    I suspect that the rumour mill will start grinding overtime from here on in for the next couple of months…

    #2693
    Anonymous @

    @craig I have been wondering if it would be possible for them to do a Who episode on the same basis as the Star Trek DS9 tribbles episode — i.e. digitally inserting new characters into the footage of the original Trek episode and weaving a new tale around it.

    If so, Shada would be the obvious choice. Or some kind of story where Doctor Eleven has to revisit previous adventures of all of his previous incarnations without letting on that he’s there. But even as I write it that just sounds too insanely ambitious…

    #2695
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Basically… run. Moffat doesn’t have to do 11 Doctors.

    #2697
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @craig

    With The Master and Ming the Merciless as moderators the trolls will not be a problem.

    Damn right. We’ll jab at them with our weapons grade goatee’s until they surrender!

    @juniperfish

    Sad to hear you’ve had those real time issues as well. Bloody real life – coming over here to steal our internet time. I ask you!

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    The “Dan Brown” error made me laugh out loud at the end of the week, honestly – you therefore deserve some sort of medal! All praise Blenkinsop!!

    #2703
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @jimthefish I love that DS9 Tribbles episode. Really love it. It is a genius tribute and a masterpiece of scripting, editing, cinematography, set design, costume design and CGI. The lighting alone blows me away – jumping back and forth from the brightly lit past to the darker future. The matching shots are amazing and obviously a labour of love.

    And Worf always makes me laugh: “We don’t like to talk about it” (or something like that).

    If they could do something similar with Who that would be great. There’s just an issue with black & white that Star Trek never had to deal with. But you never know.

    Who, in classic past episodes. That almost sounds better than 11 Doctors.

    #2705
    Anonymous @

    @craig — I agree. I still find that episode an absolute masterpiece. You really can’t see the joins at all. And not only is it a loving homage in itself, but it also stands up as a pretty fun episode. I’d love to see Who do something like this…  I don’t think the black and white would really be an too much of an issue either…

    #2707
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @jimthefish and @craig

    Have to share the love for the DS9 episode. It really is an astonishing piece of work. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen some of the colourisation experiments, but some are quite good.

    The alternative might be to do a homage in black and white. I half thought that inserting Matt into the Laurel and Hardy sketch might have been an experiment with that kind of thing.

    #2725
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @phaseshift. I love those colourised clips!  I especially like the fact that the palette is so soft. Compare it to the harsh, cartoon-like colours of the John Nathan-Turner period.

    But given that the colours of the Moffat era are pretty bright and bold, I hesitate to encourage a mix-and-match between the two eras.

    Having said that, it would be pretty wonderful to see William Hartnell and Matt Smith in a scene together!

    #2727
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Looks brilliant. So it’s not just gonna be suits discussing plot and character then!

    #2729
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Doctor Who? Kennedy?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/conflict-of-bbc-interest–doctor-who-vs-the-assassination-of-jfk-8497176.html

    Also, there’s that throw-away line in Let’s Kill Hitler:

    Time can be rewritten. Remember Kennedy.

    Why is that there? I think @blenkinsopthebrave could well be right.

    #2731
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    I can’t help wondering, @craig, if they’re taking advantage of the docu-drama to get some sneaky filming in for the main series.

    And yes, there’s got to be at least a reference to Kennedy.

    #2733
    Whisht @whisht

    ah but @bluesqueakpip, after seeing Craig’s link of the Daleks, wobbly sets in high-definition 3D just wouldn’t be right!

    (though I think you are!)

    #2741
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    In a plot development stolen directly from the Deadly Assassin, Julian Assange, a man at the centre of a nefarious plot and corruption at the very heart of government puts himself forward for high office to avoid prosecution …

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/feb/18/julian-assange-wikileaks-senate-victory

    Dr who predicts all! #whodathunkit #thisisnottwitterdummy

    #2743
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Some more news about An Adventure In Time And Space. It sounds like the play is going to cover all of the Hartnell years; they’ve just cast Reece Shearsmith as Patrick Troughton.

    #2745
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip — that’s a cracking piece of casting too. I can see Shearsmith as Troughton.

    It’s definitely making me wonder if he and Bradley will be reprising their roles in the show proper. All you need is to cast Sean Pertwee as his dad and you’ve got a full set of Doctors again…

    Love the pics of Bradley as Hartnell too. He really does look the part…

    #2747
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish – yes, I wondered too, as soon as I saw it. I can understand that the dramatic through-line might be following from the successful start to Hartnell having to retire through illness. But, in that case, why recreate the Daleks on Westminster Bridge? The actor in me keeps going ‘Dear Lord, how much did that cost?

    And now we have a Patrick Troughton. And 1960’s Daleks, in colour. On Westminster Bridge. As I said above, I reckon at least some of the main series filming is being sneaked in on the excuse that it’s for the drama-doc. And if so, that would suggest that just possibly Bradley and Shearsmith are also playing the First and Second Doctors, having been introduced to a new generation by means of the drama-doc.

    Mark Gatiss seemed like a giggly little boy in the Daleks’ clip. I thought at first it was just the sheer fun of being able to recreate the iconic Dalek shot; now I’m wondering if there’s another reason he’s so very excited about this.

    #2749
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip and @jimthefish I think I may have posted earlier, or maybe I just thought it, but I did start to think that it would be a remarkable opportunity to merge Who with the docu-drama. They’ll also have a ready-built First Doctor Tardis.

    But then I thought it might seem a bit rubbish to watch the docu-drama one week and then see almost exactly the same thing the next week. Unless of course the Daleks and Troughton are not even in the docu-drama and it’s all a massive bluff. The docu-drama maybe ends with the first episode being aired, and everything else is used for the anniversary.

    Thinking on Kennedy, Nine was pictured there on the day (according to “Rose”), and it’s been mentioned in other episodes. I can see a lot happening in November 1963. Nine has to be in Dallas, whereas Two (or Eleven) is helping influence a new TV show in London by battling Daleks on Westminster bridge infront of an amazed production crew (or even just infront of Terry Nation).

    Perhaps.

    #2751
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – You may have done. All the wild theories are starting to blur together in my mind. Will the universe survive?

    One thing I do note is that the current cast list has actors to play the original Hartnell Companions – but none listed for later.    We should be onto Ben and Polly by the time Troughton comes in. Now it could be that the reason is simply that the Ben and Polly actors only have one or two lines; so they either haven’t yet been cast or RT didn’t bother going that far down the list.

    But it’s interesting. The cast list is very much orientated to the show’s beginnings; then they bring in someone to play Troughton…

    #2753
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Thanks everyone, for all the links posted above.  Lots of food for thought 🙂

    @bluesqueakpip My thoughts exactly re documentary/tribute progs being useful camouflage for disguising which actors are on call for which Who! And yes, it is intriguing they bring in Troughton, but then again regeneration is the show’s stroke of genius and one of its USPs – there could be series of flash forwards to summarise the show’s “greatest hits” as it were, taking it up to the change to Troughton. The casting so far looks ace.

    Also intrigued by –

    William Russell (the original Ian Chesterton) as Harry

    Reece Pockney as Alan

    Who the hell are Harry and Alan…? Every other cast name has explanation beside it… (re Reece Pockney )

    <pauses a min to squeeeeal – William Russell!! >

     

    #2755
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    I think there’s a big assumption that a portrayal of Troughton means that must be in the form of the second incarnation. Remember that William Hartnell himself suggested Patrick Troughton could take on the role and from that you can probably assume that they knew each other, perhaps even good friends.

    If so, its probably more likely (and maybe even more interesting) that its their behind the scenes relationship that’s being explored – how interesting would it be if they’d discussed how William should work the role long before Patrick ever knew he would take it over, for instance?

    On another note, I’ve seen just about everything any of the LoG have ever been in (including on stage and even their very first show at the Edinburgh Festival before they found fame) and imho (even though Reece as Maureen Sowerbutts as Tina Turner may be the single funniest thing I’ve ever seen) I think Reece an actor with somewhat limited range (sorry!); I can’t help but worry that we’re going to see another Shearsmith “turn” rather than some actual, you know, acting. More than happy to be proved wrong though.

    #2757
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    @scaryb :

    see: http://www.radiotimes.com/rt-service/image/render/25151.jpg?imageUrl=/uploads/images/original/25151.jpg&width=620&height=374&quality=85&mode=crop

    “Reece Pockney (Alan) as, it seems, a young autograph hunter”

    However, as a little throwaway to the audience, I wonder if he’s actually a little Alan Moore ?

    #2759
    janetteB @janetteb

    I am thrilled that William Russell is in it but intrigued as to whom his character is.

    I was suprised by the scene with the Daleks in it as  I originally thought they were only covering the development of the series and possibly the first episode or at least the first few stories but the Daleks on Westminster Bridge, was from the second series and second Dalek story. Also I note there is no mention of Terry Nation on the cast list. So either the doco-drama covers a considerably longer time than I though or there is more afoot.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #2763
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Airing in the US on 24 February.

    As one of the comments states:

    Should be in Britain. We are the origin of Doctor Who, and yet it seems like we’re getting 2 star service whilst America are getting 5 star service

    I can only assume that this is to drum up publicity for the second half of season 7 in the US, whereas we’ll get them all in September-November. We better!

    #2765
    Whisht @whisht

    ah @haveyoufedthefish, I was wondering if anyone would mention Alan!

    Seems to me his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is all about time hopping and wondering who’s around at the time (albeit fictional in that series).

    His stint on the Dr Who comics is probably not that memorable (I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone suggest reading them), but surely he’s a better writer now…? I’d love to see him be asked to do something (anything!).

    though the ire of his “oh, and you had to make my comic strip into a TV programme…” might wear thin even with him! (btw I loved one interview where he said he did the whole dis-owing thing in a huff and then had 3 or 4 films get green-lit over the same weekend, waving goodbyw to much needed and unexpected money call-by-call!).

    #2767
    Anonymous @

    @whisht — I’m sure @phaseshift will back me up on this but some of Mr Moore’s Doctor Who strips are well worth seeking out. Especially the ‘spin off’ monster secondary strips that he did for Dr Who Weekly back in the day. They might not be Watchmen standard but they were still a notch above the average, I think…

    #2771
    Whisht @whisht

    ah, really Jimthefish…. not a surprise they’re better than average…. will hunt them out!

    thanks for the tip!

    #2773
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @whisht

    I’ll certainly backup @jimthefish on the Alan Moore front. I think people can get a little confused because there was another writer, Steve Moore, who also wrote at the time (credits used to just go to “Moore”). Alan (it was early in his career) wrote back stories, which were usually monster based and didn’t feature the Doctor except as a narrator. He wrote a couple of gems in “Business as Usual” (a story about an industrial spy infiltrating a factory producing Auton Toys, which has a bleak ending, and a variant of this story would produce a great Christmas special – “Kids – your new toys are all Autons”) and the Cybermen strip “Black Legacy”. It’s funny that years later RTD used the “Deathsmiths of Goth” from this story in a piece about the TimeWar in the first new-who annual.

    These stories resonated.

    His other three strips, Star Death, Black Sun Rising and 4-D War give an interpretation of Time Lord history, and their endeavours to gain mastery over time. Star Death sees the story of Omega, who is betrayed by Fenris. It should come as no surprise that Andrew Cartmel was a massive fan of Moore, and has admitted he showed “The Ballad of Halo Jones” to writers at the time as an example of the writing he wanted. Certainly, the later period of the McCoy era (where even I thought it was improving) owed a lot to his work.

    Unfortunately, they have not been reprinted in the UK which seems a bit criminal.

    There is an electronic version of Black Legacy here, from a colourised US Marvel reprint (The original B&W was beautiful I think). I think both Jim and I would like to see “The apocalypse device” presented on screen. We have patience.:-)

    My one hope is that with Neil Gaiman writing for Who, we may entice Moore into doing it. His aversion to screen transfers, he suggests, is because he writes for the medium to be used. If he wrote a screenplay – he’d object to it being turned into a prose novel or a comic. It’s an interesting argument, but I think it’s more to do with loss of control over the idea for him.

    #2775
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @craig

    It’s frustrating isn’t it, with regard to those retrospectives.

    They are produced by BBC Worldwide, which exists to promote and establish the BBC brand and get best value from broadcast content.

    Now they have their own stations – BBC wherever and are filming their own content, they appear to be upstaging BBC home in their appreciation of the worth of Who.

    I think what we are seeing is another internal pissing contest over our favourite show. Such as:

    BBC Worldwide: “Look – this is a valued brand that gives you how many millions per year in return for investment and is the best performing non-soap drama period”.

    BBC 1 Controller: “But it costs a lot!”

    BBC W: “It costs no more than any other hour of drama – you do it no favours! That’s why the cast list is usually in single figures, to cover the post filming costs.”

    BBC 1 C: “Yes, but it counts as 14 hours of our budget and we have other issues to consider”

    BBC W: “Haven’t we set you up with co-sponsorship? First with the Canadians, and then with us, though BBC America (where it’s going down a treat and is a record breaking show)”.

    BBC 1 C: “But you see – we have to up-front our investment, which is fiscally difficult. We can split a series over two years, and still see an upturn in our later sales from you. Those sucke – sorry, loyal fans will still buy all that tacky shit you produce for the 50th wont they?”

    BBC W: “You are actually mad, aren’t you?”

    BBC 1 C: “Yes! Have you seen the other shit I’ve commissioned recently?”

    #2777
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @phaseshift I’m beginning to think you may be Mark Gatiss. You’ve been a bit busy recently, and that was funny as Hell (could’ve been straight out of LoG). 😀

    #2779
    Anonymous @

    @phaseshift — a world of yes to seeing the apocalypse device on TV. I can safely say that it was one concept that totally gave me the willies when I was a kid. Black Legacy is a great story. I always loved the way David Lloyd drew the Cybermen too. My only reservation is that Moore wrote the Cybermen as strangely emotional — all that ‘blood of my ancestors’ stuff…

    #2781
    Whisht @whisht

    wow – thanks @jimthefish / @phaseshift (especially for the background to his time on Who),

    though not a ‘surprise’, nice to know there’s some more to read (pun groan-punishingly intended). Sounds similar to his time on 200AD doing the Future Shocks perhaps..?

    btw I think I read that Steve Moore was a bit of a mentor to (the unrelated) Alan.

    Anyway, haven’t got all his stuff, but when its good, its very good.
    thanks again, really helpful

    #2789
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Great interview with Moffat. Lots of info. There’s gonna be more than just the 60 minute episode, he’s already working on the next season, Matt’s gonna be with us “forever” (but then the Moffat lies), and the hidden meaning behind the title of “The Big Bang”.

    #2793
    janetteB @janetteb

    Lovely interview. Thanks for the link @craig

    I wasn’t overly reassured by Moffat’s affirmation that Mat would be Doctor for ever but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that we are not about to loose him in the foreseeable future. I would like to do at least one more series. I think three years of the one Doctor is insufficient for that actor to really become the role. The first season is really about establishing the relationship between actor/character and character/audience. I also fear that Matt (like Tom Baker) is going to leave his replacement with some very big shoes to fill.

    Moffat was also unclear as to whether there are any suprises in store for the anniversary.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #2813
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @craig

    Thanks for the link to the interview. Interesting on a number of points. I guess this more or less confirms series 8 for next year, but it does sound like there is more to the anniversary than meets the eye.

    Afraid I’m not MG though. Good job – I’d be mad with power right about now!

    @whisht

    btw I think I read that Steve Moore was a bit of a mentor to (the unrelated) Alan.

    Yes, I read he ceased to contribute over a point of principle that one of Steve’s strips had been re-used without his permission? It must have took some confidence at that stage of his career. It’s interesting you mention his 2000AD stuff because I bought a collected edition of his future shocks and other shorts last year. It’s a shame that they couldn’t do something similar with those Who B-strips, some of which were of a similar nature to the future shocks, and are well worth a re-read.

    I really would love “…by Alan Moore” to appear in the TV episode titles. I honestly don’t know what he would come up with, which is half the attraction.

    @jimthefish

    My only reservation is that Moore wrote the Cybermen as strangely emotional — all that ‘blood of my ancestors’ stuff…

    It does seem a little odd (even though the Cybermen in Revenge and Earthshock seemed a little emotional), but I thought the idea that the Apocalypse Device had reactivated the notion of fear in the Cybermen was a least established early and I didn’t really dwell on it.

    You have to thank those strips for introducing Moore and Lloyd though.

    #2817
    Anonymous @

    @phaseshift — good point about Cyber-emotion in the strip. I hadn’t thought of/had forgotten that. Mind you, as you say, the Cybermen were always a bit emotional, so maybe its not something to cavil at too much.

    The physicist Michio Kaku makes the point in one of his books that the idea that something like robots without emotions ever taking over is a fallacy because decision-making of any kind is based upon emotion. If things like the Cybermen or the Borg or Daleks or whatever truly had no emotions then they’d be useless as a threat because they would essentially be paralysed by indecision. I suppose it’s because in the minds of writers logic and lack of emotion have been somehow conflated when they aren’t the same things at all.

    @craig – thanks for the interview. Very interesting. Although Moffatt was being a bit shifty and evasive and maybe even a bit sheepish, I thought. Doesn’t exactly set my mind at rest about Matt. I suspect he’s not long for the world of Whodom. And I’m not sure that he means there’s another anniversary special up his sleeve. He could have been referring to the docu-drama or the season finale could be an hour long too. Still, I live in hope…

    #2849
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    LindaLee meets Freema Agyeman – Linda Lee interviews the former companion…

    http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/43499715460/four-year-old-doctor-who-fan-lindalee-rose

    [crikey she’s sweet but look at all those cameras – I hope fame doesn’t ruin her 🙂 ]

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