Face The Raven

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor Face The Raven

This topic contains 406 replies, has 69 voices, and was last updated by  Dentarthurdent 1 year, 10 months ago.

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    MissRori @missrori

    @jimthefish, Talk about sympathy for the devil!  😀

    It will be interesting to see where it goes.  Maybe Gallifrey is done and dusted, though already the Titan comics are playing with it in “Supremacy of the Cybermen”.  Maybe it’s not the real Promised Land and it’s something, someplace else where the Doctor will finally find peace…

    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord


    I’ve not read Supremacy yet but I’ve largely heard good things about it. Think I’ll wait for the inevitable TP.

    As to the Doctor finding peace — well, do we really want that? Wouldn’t that mean that the story –and the show — was essentially at an end?

    janetteB @janetteb

    @jimthefish Just what I was going to say. We knew that the Doctor would not be able to cope with peace anyway. He would implode within a day judging by his antics while staying at the medieval monastery.



    MissRori @missrori

    @jimthefish and @janette True, true.  Still — he had a point when he asked if he was owed the chance to save Clara.  He’s done so much good for so many others, and when he asks for so little in return, he doesn’t get it!  I’d say he has a lot of debts to collect upon — especially after the confession dial torment.  (Rotten old Time Lords!)  Maybe he can’t have peace…but at least he can finally know eternal happiness someday, can’t he?  😉

    @jimthefish You’ll probably be waiting quite a while for the trade edition of Supremacy of the Cybermen.  Part Two was supposed to be released on July 20, but it’s been rescheduled for next Wednesday (August 17).  And there are three more parts to go after that.  Titan Comics really botched this one — I would have thought they’d get their “big” event series for the year out on time, but nope.  What’s really sad is that it probably won’t be good enough to make up for the endless delays (Part One’s pretty much just scene-setting, and the Doctors aren’t even close to getting together as yet); it might have been great fun released over 10 weeks as advertised, but over several months…(sigh)  Hopefully I’m wrong, but I have a hunch most of Part Two will be more scene-setting and backstory.

    ichabod @ichabod

    Hasn’t the Doctor always been presented and played as a scientist (of SF science, but still, science) rather than a mystic?  He might be hopeful of finding ways *around* death (postponement, mostly, as with post-Raven Clara), but even that is so that the “dead” person can go on being in our live universe as a player.  What sort of “Heaven” would a mind like the Doctor’s be happy in, happy enough to even stay there?  As far as that goes, I think he’s already IN his Heaven — the fictional version of our universe, full of wonders and horrors and crazy surprises, with him having the capacity to travel anywhere, any-when.

    Or maybe that’s — Hell?  At least to the extent that he keeps losing people . . .

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    I’m in a mild state of shock. (Even though I have watched the episode previously, a year ago). So even though I know (this time) what’s going to happen, this episode can still move me profoundly. And I shed a tear at the coda of Rigsy’s little shrine to Clara at the abandoned Tardis.

    On my first watch through a year ago, though I knew Clara was leaving at the end of the season, I hadn’t expected this ending. The episode started off so fun and light, Clara on 110%, yes indeed a bit wild and reckless but she carries it off well. And there was an intriguing mystery premise (trap streets), followed by the ongoing mystery of who or why Rigsy had been set up. And right up to the point where Ashildr/Me couldn’t take the curse off, I never suspected that Clara wasn’t going to get out of it. But the contrivance of the Raven (I guess it could be equated to a curse) was well ‘sold’ such that I never questioned it.

    On the re-watch, I’ve realised that all the characters acquitted themselves honourably at the end – Clara, the Doctor, Rigsy, even Ashildr (who never intended harm to Rigsy or Clara). But they’ll all be feeling enormously guilty. Excellent writing and acting all round, especially Capaldi and Jenna. I can’t hate anybody (except maybe the unknowns who were blackmailing Ashildr) – it has the feeling of a Shakespearean tragedy – good deeds never go unpunished.

    Was Clara’s death not important enough – she died by unlucky accident, not knowing what she was risking and not saving the world, just saving a graffiti artist?   I know some people think that way.   But I don’t agree.   Tragedy happens all the time by the most trivial chances, all we can do is deal with it.   I loved that Clara ordered the Doctor ‘no revenge’, even while I sympathised with his words to Ashildr that he might find that difficult to keep to.

    This episode goes in the top drawer.

    Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent

    Just watched it again (I watch all the really good episodes twice, even on a re-watch through the series like I’m doing) and this time the last ten minutes had even more effect on me.    I liked the touch that Clara ordered Me to take the teleport bracelet off the Doctor before she would let Me take the shade off her – that’s Clara, trying to take control of the situation.   (That was the moment Me and the Doctor realised in shock that Clara had the shade, they both knew the implication of that).    I was damn near in tears as the realisation dawned on Clara that she wasn’t getting out of this one.

    This is not only the best ‘parting’ scene in Doctor Who, it’s the best death scene I have ever watched in scifi.   And it’s precisely because all the actors dial back on the emotion and heroics and leave it to the viewer to feel it.   Oh, and excellent writing.


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