General Open Thread – TV Shows

[Whisht @whisht]

I never saw the series (was it ever repeated as I’m too young to remember when it was first on – don’t say that too often!) but did see the TV film.

I distinctly remember how dingy and murky it all was, especially the slow punching of the bucket of sand.

So, the box set of Callan sounds nice…

[Anonymous @]

@whisht — I’ve got the Colour Years (and do quite fancy getting the Monochrome Years at some point). It’s class TV and well worth checking out…. Ewa WooWa’s finest hour….

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://news.drwho-online.co.uk/Louise-Jameson-To-Co-star-In-The-Tractate-Middoth.aspx

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Don’t know if any of you guys watch The Newsroom, the Aaron Sorkin show, but the season finale was an absolutely master-class in pulling all the threads together, including a couple of danglers from the previous season.

Absolute storytelling genius. Highly recommended.

 

(If you haven’t seen the S1 episode dealing with the shooting of Gabby Gifford, then break a neck to do so – one of the finest single episodes of TV have ever seen)

[Anonymous @]

This is a book, but it’s a book about TV shows, so I’m posting here.  There’s a review in the Guardian for the new book “Difficult Men: From The Sopranos and The Wire to Mad Men and Breaking Bad” by Brett Martin.

“The inside story of how the best [American] TV series of the last 20 years came to be made”

The review is pretty comprehensive, with some fascinating nuggets like this, about Deadwood’s and NYPD Blue’s David Milch:

A drug‑addled gambler, Milch gave up on scripts altogether and extemporaneously dictated lines to bemused actors, when not randomly handing out hundred-dollar bills, urinating out of windows, or assembling teams of young, attractive women – “vestal virgins” – to assist his creative processes.

It sounds like a great read, best summed up by this start to the review:

Brett Martin’s Difficult Men does for the outstanding American TV dramas of recent years what Peter Biskind’s “Easy Riders, Raging Bulls” did for the great US movies of the 1970s: it’s an entertaining and insightful history of how they came to be made. The title refers not just to the new breed of televisual anti-hero that emerged from 1999 onwards, when Tony Soprano debuted on HBO, but also to the “showrunners”, the “all-powerful” writer-producers behind them

 

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

I think both @pedant and I have mentioned this in the past, but if anyone wants to watch some BBC America produced content, Orphan Black gets is UK showing starting tonight.

It made one of the Guardian choices, and they say:

A bizarre coincidence leads orphaned hustler Sarah (Tatiana Maslany) to assume what she thinks to be a profitable new identity as her “twin” Beth Childs. In episode one, Sarah and partner-in-crime Felix discover that there’s a price to pay for adopting the Beth identity, while the second instalment sees Sarah/Beth on the run from a killer as she searches for pieces of the puzzle that connect the women: a gripping doppelgänger drama with dark twists.

Putting my comments about some bizarre accents to one side, I’d recommend it. Tatiana Maslany really brings different physical quirks to the different roles. Its relative success has guaranteed it a second series, so it’s not one of those where you’ll be left high and dry at the end of the first run. It starts tonight as a double bill from 9pm on BBC3.

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@phaseshift – thanks for the heads-up. I’d vaguely noticed Orphan Black as something I wanted to watch, but forgotten it was starting tonight. It’s now set to record on my HDR.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@bluesqueakpip – God bless HDD recorders. It’s worth sticking past the first couple of episodes, as it gets a lot more involved. The G’s other regular genre fanboy Phelim O’Neil put a column up just after I posted. It doesn’t contain any more spoilers than the BBC America promotion, but if you want to remain completely unspoilt, avoid until you’ve watched tonights episodes.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/sep/20/orphan-black-sci-fi-thriller

[Anonymous @]

@phaseshift — Thought the set-up to this sounded a bit on the overly contrived side* but I am quite looking forward to this. Great title too….

 

(*I seem to remember also saying that about Fringe too and look how great that turned out so what the hell do I know?)

[janetteB @janetteb]

I just wanted to thank those who recommended Crow Road. Been watching it these last few nights and really enjoying it.

Cheers

Janette

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Yes, Orphan Black is one of those that rewards a little patience, rather than hitting you with the exposition stick straight off. Uptight Prissy Soccer Mom version is an absolute joy.

[TardisBlue @tardisblue]

@pendant

I couldn’t agree with you more about Orphan Black.

In the states, it was broadcast immediately after Doctor Who. In fact, its first episode was broadcast immediately after Jenna Coleman’s “official” debut as a companion in season/series 7.2. I became captivated by Orphan Black; I felt emotionally engaged throughout each show; I couldn’t wait until the next episode.

With Doctor Who 7.2, I was interested, but generally only on an intellectual level. I did watch each episode, and — eventually — rewatched them. But its contrast with the enthralling Orphan Black left a sliver of ice in my Whovian heart. The Doctor’s detachment, his putting Clara under a Gllifreyian microscope, the somewhat disjointed cumulative effect of single 45 minute episodes … I know Moffat’s playing the long game. But I was more “meh” about playing along than I’d been since the series reboot.

I was not viscerally engaged. Unlike Orphan Black’s unfolding mystery, danger and drama, which had me hooked for the duration about twenty minutes into the first episode. Even now, months after the show’s initial run ended here, I’m anxiously hoping that one character who initially annoyed me is not killed off in season two.

Sadly, the lead actress Tatania Maslany was overlooked in this year’s Emmy nominations. Thankfully, since the series has been renewed, the Emmy snub can be corrected a year from now.

BUT, dear @pendent, we’ve come to a partial parting of the ways about The Newsroom.

When I first heard about this Aaron Sorkin (West Wing, The Social Network) series which promised to speak truth to power, I was jazzed.

Quick aside: Or is it truth to piffle? Which seems to be what’s passing as news too often nowadays. You all are so lucky to have the Beeb available as one of your news choice, I tell you. And the CBC for my northern friends. (sorry @Janette and our growing non-British Empire international contingent, I’m regrettably much less familiar with your local broadcast media.)

I was hugely excited. I made sure my calendar was clear for The Newsroom’s premiere. Which I enjoyed. Really enjoyed. Even though in retrospect some of Sorkin’s “dialogue” was full of sentences as removed from every day speech as some gracing this post. And frequently sounded like a cross between a college-level civics lesson and a manifesto. Which I overlooked. Since I agreed with many of his points. And was so overjoyed to hear on commercial (albeit cable) television. Even in fiction.

But the second episode was a big disappointment.

And the third.

As for the fourth, well, at times I was *this* close to tears of disappointment. At other times, I was so annoyed at Sorkin I was *this* close to being arrested for disturbing the peace with a string of unladylike Anglo-Saxon invective.

And I found the remainder of the season inconsistent at best, and depressing-because-the-series’-concept-and-its-critique-of-what-so-called-journalism-has-become deserved SO much better.

Don’t get me started on the women!

Those women — talk about time travel. Back to the 1950’s. Or maybe even Seneca Falls, New York, in the 1800’s. No — not there. The women attending the first women’s rights conference knew that they were treated unfairly by society. They did not meekly accept their lot in life. They became suffragettes, helped the underground railway, advocated for birth control, tried to address the real damage alcoholism wreaked on families and even made an inroad or two into higher education and professional careers.

I don’t know what regressive time period nor what separate but unequal universe Sorkin was channeling when writing his scripts. It certainly does not represent the 21st century professional women — or female journalists — I know and respect. Even those who manifestly could benefit from Codependents Anonymous, intensive self esteem workshops, career mentoring, and the occasional saloon cut and color.

First the character played by Alison Pill, then the character played by Emily Mortimer, then the way the character played by Thomas S (sp?) — especially how he treated a certain someone. All cringe-worthy. And that’s just the first half of the first season. All in in(un?)credible situations which motivated me to even more earthy vocabulary. Somewhere, someplace even George Carlin and Mort Saul were blushing.

There was a fair amount of commentary stateside on how Sorkin seemed as incapable of writing realistic women as the Sixth Doctor was at choosing a color-coordinated wardrobe. Here’s a link to one discussion:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/02/hbo-s-the-newsroom-aaron-sorkin-s-women-problem.html

The Newsroom got a lot of flack from IRL journalists, too, for its unrealistic portrayal of how IRL journalist and broadcast news.

The critical reception for the show was underwhelming. That’s sad, because so many of the cast members are talented actors. But whatever potential the series offered for reevaluating current news shows’ content and delivery — if Sorkin had deftly used a more nuanced and less strident brush — was destroyed by Sorkin’s bludgeoning sledgehammer. The preachy, condescending and contemptuous diatribes emanating from the news anchor/main character would make anyone feel attached and criticized. An attack triggering our primal instinct of fight or flight. And if our civilized veneer succeeds in preventing fisticuffs, at the very least, such diatribes just reinforce the “leftist media elite,” “eggheaded intellectuals,” and “dangerously unwarranted use of fact-based analysis” stereotypes held by the folks Sorkin wants to convince and convert. You have the right to stand on a soapbox in Hyde Park and orate to your heart’s content. Or to stand at a street corner near Times Square proffering tracts to passersby. But nothing guarantees you’ll be heard or read by your intended audience. Especially when it’s delivered with an aura of criticism coming from a pugnacious full-of-himself impatient and judgmental know-it-all.

The first season’s Metacritic rating was a cringeworthy 57. To his credit, Sorkin apparently took some of the critiques to heart, and included a story arch which portrayed a more realistic picture of what responsible news organizations do which investigating a story. Sorkin’s second season storyline does a good job of creating just enough tension and interest when first introduced. And then adding to it. And then building on the accumulated tension the subsequent next week. And again the following week. Much like Ravel’s Bolero. (I’m being purposefully vague to avoid spoilers. Rest assured: no classical music was harmed in the making of this series.) I was genuinely interested. I was even occasionally distracted from Sorkin’s proclivity for cringe-worthy plot points and dialogue when writing for several female characters.

Others appear to have agreed with me. I think the second season’s metacritic rating rose to 66 (from memory).

Yeah, I know, I’ve been ragging on the show for a while now.

To answer your unasked question:

Yes. I *did* watch the show. About 95% of it, truth be told. Faithfully, despite my qualms and disappointments, during the first season. And more out of habit — along with my deep respect for many highly talented actors in the cast — during the second season. But a few weeks ago I forgot it was on. I haven’t been motivated enough to bother to watch the episode I missed, even though it was the one leading up to the season’s finale.

This is just one Tardis’ take on the show. YMMV.

@Pedent, my rant wasn’t about you or your admiration for the way Sorkin worked all the threads together in the season two finale. I really didn’t anticipate having that one character pop up again. I agree, Sorkin wove this happenstance very deftly and effectively, IMHO. It definitely laid a foundation for (? sorry – afraid of leaving a slight spoiler potential if I finish that sentence). And there were scenes that were flat out hysterically funny. I’m smiling just remembering them. And my Mom would be happy none of George Carlin’s infamous seven “dirty” words and their Anglo-Saxon precursors flitted across my mind. *Although* I was sorely tempted to shake some sense into one character. Even if it meant borrowing the Tardis for a quick visit to the ghost of their (fill-in-the-spoiler-here) future.

Anyway, I’ve nattered on long enough. There’s a caption competition calling.

TardisBlue

[TardisBlue @tardisblue]

@pedant

see above

I swear, season 8 will have an episode entitled “The Name of the Free Man Who is Not a Fish.” Either that, or I’ll be pulled out of class for a remedial spelling lesson. Or @craig or @phaseshift or @jimthefish or @Shazzbot will extend the time to make edits just a few minutes more to accommodate long-winded participants with old, dodgy computers which make editing a post a time-consuming pain in the (fill in the blank).

TardisBlue, who’s not a fish but feels quite an affinity for them. Water being blue and all that.

[Anonymous @]

I haven’t really watched The Newsroom but do intend to check it out properly. But there is definitely a good show to be made there somewhere, if only to point out the fact that the news culture in the UK (and presumably the States too) is changing radically and the most radical thing about it is that actual real, grown-up journalists are gradually being removed from the mix…

Watched the first couple of Orphan Blacks and have to admit that neither myself nor Mrs Fish were overly sold on it yet but largely on the recommendations on these boards we’re going to stick with it for a while longer…

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@jimthefish – it’s about ep three that you go “Eh? What now?” and it kicks off. Up until then I was enjoying the conceit and dodgy accents 🙂

[Anonymous @]

@pedant — have, erm, acquired the better part of season one of Orphan Black so will definitely see it through I think…

oh, and @janetteb, glad you’re enjoying The Crow Road — it’s not without its faults — neither the casting of Verity or Ashley or Fergus is quite how I imagined it, but they got Rory, Kenneth, Hamish, Janice and Lewis spot on. And Banks himself thought it was ‘annoyingly better than the book in several places’…

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@tardisblue

See, here’s the thing (and although I’ll focus on Sorkin here, keep half an eye on Moffat):

–  Sorkin  doesn’t write “realistic” characters at all, and never has. From Jed Bartlet and Leo McGarry through Toby Zeigler (or ‘me’, only bearded and Jewish, as I know him) to Donna Moss and CJ to Wil McAvoy, Mac McHale, Maggie, Jim and Lisa…and Jerry, all of his characters exist to do one thing: to serve a dramatic purpose. Sorkin writes to theme and point, not record. He paints with a broad brush and always has;

The first season was spent skewering networks news and the critics gave it a shoeing? I, for one, and shocked. (Also – you have fallen into the trap spelled out in episode 2 of the journalistic definition of ‘balance’, something the BBC suffers from in extremis).

– Despite being familiar with the factual basis of Genoa, I was a bit disappointed by the rework in S2 – it dumped a potentially interesting journalist-under-threat story AND what would have proved an epically well-timed story on privacy (something Sorkin is “on” about – Sam Seaborn said privacy would the the 21st century issue in 1999!).

Instead we only got passing reference to the inexcusable failings of modern news journalism (an issue Jon Stewart is able to address directly – see his item about the Washington Shootings and CNN. Utter genius. Had Sorkin written a story highlighting that would it have been “preachy”? Oh, hang on – he did and the Gabby Giffords episode is one the best single episodes of TV I have ever watched (many times now));

– Out there in the real world women have to work twice or three times as hard as men to earn the same respect (and salary) so I find it odd that critics seem to think his women should not be plagued by the same doubts, insecurities and neuroses, and confronted by the same prejudices as …well, everyone else.

– As the Romans knew, only the Gods are perfect, but I will take Sorkin’s (or Moffats’s, or Whedon’s) imperfection over pretty well any one else’s perfection every time.

Now if you want insultingly bad TV, I recommend Under The Dome – everything that is wrong with Stephen King’s writing in – literally – a capsule. A bold, brilliant high concept, populated by the stupidest people ever doing stupid things for stupid reasons, with what should have been a marvellous study of a leader becoming progressively unhinged being mishandled at every turn.

Watch that, then re-watch The Newsroom. *That’s* balance.

[Anonymous @]

@pedant – about ‘Orphan Black’ and what you said:

it’s about ep three that you go “Eh? What now?” and it kicks off. Up until then I was enjoying the conceit and dodgy accents

I was talking to another American in my little Yorkshire village (we have an American military installation not too far away, and several of them live here) and she asked me an interesting question:  Considering how long you’ve lived here, when you watch TV or movies, do you find it difficult to ascertain which characters are American and which are British?

I’ve lived in England long enough that any flavour of British accent sounds ‘normal’ to me, and American accents sound a bit jarring.  This is one of the things I’ve found so interesting about watching the first two episodes of Orphan Black so far – no matter how the lead actress speaks, it always sounds ‘OK’ to me.  Perhaps that’s what you meant by ‘dodgy accents’ – her ‘American’ perhaps isn’t American enough.  (Granted, the actress is Canadian, but I’ll bet you 5 quid that I could tell a Canadian from an American faster than any Brit.  🙂  )

I re-watched the first episode of Orphan Black today and watched the second one straight after.  Other than the gratuitous sex scene and multiple shots of her bum in scanty pants (! – I’m sure all of that did much more for ‘the boys’ than it did for me!), I’m well intrigued and can’t wait for the next episode.  How many doppelgangers does Sarah have?   Part of the game is given away by the description of the programme as sci-fi; I’d have been content with simply thinking that the foster child, as Felix said, had a family she was unaware of.

[Anonymous @]

In response to @craig‘s post on 1 September about The Quatermass Experiment on the old On The Sofa thread, here’s a head’s-up about Quatermass 2 which is available on BBC’s iPlayer until next Sunday.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Um, where did my last post go – in response to @shazzbot?

[TardisBlue @tardisblue]

@pedant (& @jimthefish)

Thanks 4 yr replies. Miss Kizlet must be a big Sorkin fan … this afternoon the malicious foistware I thought I’d *finally* gotten rid of came back with a vengeance and then some. Just wanted to acknowledge yr posts & let u know I appreciated them. @ freeman, I didn’t want to post spoilers re TN, maybe a fuller, factually based analysis would have helped folks understand my take on Sorkin’s women. Maybe not. Dunno. 1 example: Alison Pill’s initial mistakes were confusing the North American state of Georgia with the European Republic of Georgia; I also seem 2 remember a sympathy card & flowers sent in a professional context w/ an inscription “LOL” b/c she thought it meant “loads of love.”. Give me a break. A twentysomething not knowing what LOL means? Not knowing that Georgia was a popular name for states, republics, *and* doctor’s daughters. Attention these differing Georgias would be paid. Hard 4 me 2 keep from feeling a bit disrespected by Sorkin’s writing there. On behalf of all women, not just cute blondes. On behalf of all journalists, not just recently promoted ones. Meanwhile, the awkward season 1 stumbles of John Gallagher Jr’s character don’t impact how his professional competence is viewed. Yeah, he’s still on a learning curve re relationships and conversations on or near busses. But no one doubts his professional competency. @pedant, I’m not sure about your balance comment. We may well both have the same misgivings about the whole “balance” thing. “Balance” can create an imbalance by presenting an opposing position without clarifying whether it’s a majority or minority view. It then becomes a part of the problem, setting up an artificial & restricted dichotomy of extremes which excludes voices from the middle, “silencing” the majority. True dialogue & analysis is preferable IMHO. Not poll-tested soundbites from people seeking approval from their bases rather than buckling down & working together on problem solving. BTW, you might be interested in Matt Miller’s book, The 2% Solution. 90% of our governance problems could be resolved if folks at the extremes each moved 2% closer to the middle. And @jimthefish, I hear you on your chosen profession. Nearly ended up a journalist myself. Idealized All The President’s Men, the Washington Post, New York Times. And, of course, the San Francisco Chronicle with its legendary 48 point bold headline complaining about a change in the way Kilpatrick’s English Muffins’ sold. Previously presplit, the “New and Improved” muffins were now … horrors! … sliced. Felt aching sense of loss when Newsweek folded. Stunned silence when the print editions of papers I’d read went poof. Grateful for ProPublica and for Rupert & gang’s comeuppance. And bonkers theorists like you.
All I need now is functional computer. I hadn’t had a chance to catch this week’s auton installment. :/ TardisBlue

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@tardisblue

Alison Pill’s initial mistakes were confusing the North American state of Georgia with the European Republic of Georgia;

It’s an old Sorkin gag, but I have heard dumber things in news rooms. Things said in the heat of a moment but which the rest of us did not let go for months. People make idiotic flubs under stress and in places like newsrooms get mercilessly mocked for it. Just hope Private Eye never gets hold of it.

I also seem 2 remember a sympathy card & flowers sent in a professional context w/ an inscription “LOL” b/c she thought it meant “loads of love.”. Give me a break.

You might want to Google David Cameron and Rebekah Wade (this was an explicit reference to that). I know 20somethings who have no clue about technology and no interest in LOLspeak, as well as other who use it differently to what I am familiar with.

1 stumbles of John Gallagher Jr’s character don’t impact how his professional competence is viewed. Yeah, he’s still on a learning curve re relationships and conversations on or near busses. But no one doubts his professional competency.

Jim Harper’s opening sequence establishes him as physically awkward and social uncomfortable, but a terrier when it comes to news. This is not a new trope. (I can relate to an extent – the stress of “working a room” was intense for me, which is why I don’t do news-gathering anymore – but put me somewhere I could listen attentively and I could spot stories no-one else would because they were too busy talking)

Meanwhile, socially and physically awkward Maggie hits her first journalistic assignment out of the park….

Her competence only then came into issue as a consequence of PTSD (see also Josh Lyman in the West Wing). And the one person who is noticing got shot in the arse in Afghanistan. Much like Whedon, in Sorkin’s universe events have consequences.

Balance

Balance becomes a problem when you give credence to a view for no other reason that someone asserts it. Journalism is supposed to be a about fact checking.

What, say, is the true dialogue about climate change? The science is overwhelming – utterly overwhelming – and yet well-funded deniers still get airtime, with their funding never discussed and the crappy science never challenged. This is nothing to do with ‘majority’ vs ‘minority’, but with absence of knowledge by journalists (or the desire to create “conflict”).

And the Tea Party is remotely interested in moving 2%.

(The problem is journalism degrees – once-upon-a-time you had to have a proper degree and actually know stuff (or be the rat-faced boy on the crime beat, or nerd on the court/ city council beat). Now you study journalism. I’d make journalism degrees post-grad only.)

[Anonymous @]

Hi @pedant – I don’t see anything in drafts or pending for you, so it appears your post just didn’t save at all.  Do you want to write it again?  Maybe in a doc/notepad then copy it into the comment box before submitting, just in case.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@Shazzbot

Was just noting that Maslany’s accent is not too bad – she’s obvuiously put the effort in, which buys a lot of brownie points –  relies too heavily on “shiiiite”, but is better than James Marsters’ before Tony Head gave him accent coaching (I wonder if she listened too much to the Irish woman, whose name escapes me, since shite is very much an Irish affectation).

But the bloke playing Felix is pretty much on the money, although the camp persona helps a lot, I suspect.

And there was something else, but can’t remember it now.

[Anonymous @]

The Flashback episode of Magnum PI has just been on ITV 4 — the one where Magnum wakes up in the 1930s to solve a long-forgotten crime. Somehow Life on Mars is just not looking as original anymore….

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Having FINALLY (weeks!) worked out what was wrong with iplayer – it doesn’t currently work with Firefox – and going largely on the chat above, I dipped into Orphan Black last night. Definitely enough in there to keep me interested (after 2 episodes); Some quibbles – am amazed bf Paul couldn’t tell the difference, but there again, his first shag in months, he’s maybe not going to question too much! –  and yes the accents are a bit off sometimes, but it doesn’t bother me so long as the focus is on the acting not the accents.

@jimthefish re people waking up in a past time (as you do) – sure Twilight Zone had that covered a few times also 🙂

 

[Anonymous @]

Hiya @scaryb – good to see you back.  I use Firefox, and I’m not having any problems with iPlayer.  What problems are you having?

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Shazzbot Firefox and iplayer – iplayer won’t download anything for me; I assumed it was something stupid I was doing (usually works!). Even tried uninstalling and reloading. Missed up to Hide of 7.2 🙁  Then I thought about checking the FAQs…. d’oh! There’s an answer which says it sometimes has a problem with some versions of Firefox. Switched to IE and hey presto!

[Anonymous @]

Hi @scaryb – aha, it sounds like you download programmes to watch offline.  I only watch iPlayer online so I haven’t experienced this.  Do you ever watch online yourself?

What I have noticed over the last couple of weeks, though, is that if I pause a programme (to make a cuppa for example), more often than not when I re-start it, there’s no sound.  I’ll have a look at the FAQs – thanks for the head’s-up that iPlayer has that.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@Shazzbot – I usually download cos you get a month to watch compared with 7 days “live”.   iPlayer FAQ page http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/

[Anonymous @]

POSSIBLE (BUT NOT REALLY) SPOILERS IF YOU’VE NOT WATCHED AGENTS OF SHIELD, ORPHAN BLACK OR ATLANTIS YET.

 

Well, after a drought of genre shows since Who’s been off the air, we’ve suddenly got a whole slew of them, as well as the anniversary publicity machine finally trundling into life.

Some thoughts:

Have watched the Agents of Shield pilot twice now and still have mixed feelings. While the words Executive Producer Joss Whedon are always to be welcomed on the small screen, not sure this hit the ground running as well as say Firefly or Angel did. (The opening extended episode of Firefly ‘Serenity’ for me is a textbook case of how to write a pilot. A fairly largeish ensemble cast but all clearly delineated and established by the end of what still manages to be engaging and thrilling story-wise.)

Aos to me suffered a little bit from what I think killed Dollhouse for me. To many characters, too many of whom were not clearly or strongly enough introduced making me go ‘who are they again?’ Also not conviced that Agent Coulson is a strong enough character to hold a series either. He was a great supporting character and that was his strength in the movies. It’s a bit like having a Buffy spin-off based around Wesley. (And I was never convinced that the once-mooted Ripper series would have worked either. Giles was one of the great supporting characters of Buffy and that was his strength. Which I guess is the reason that he should never have been part of Season Seven, when he clearly wasn’t needed anymore.)

Main action hero guy didn’t really impress much either. But it’s early days. He’s certainly not as awful as David Boreanaz was in the first season of Buffy and look how great he turned out once he got the wind under his sails.  Like Skye though. She is a bit of a Whedonite composite of Willow and Faith I thought — and I did keep thinking that she looked awful like Eliza Dushku but that in my book is no bad thing.

Great to see both Ron Glass and J August Richards again. I’m hoping that we’ll see them both again soon. Interesting that Richards’s character seemed to be on an arc not dissimilar to Gunn’s in Season 5 of Angel.

In general, I kept thinking that it was slightly Torchwood-ey. But better, obviously. This is actually what RTD and Sparxx could have aimed for with Torchwood’s American iteration if they’d thought it out a bit more.

But something that struck me as might being a problem is that the Snowden/NSA/Manning stories over the past couple of years have changed how we view the ‘men in suits’ genre, I think. It was something that also struck me about the last Splinter Cell game. Sam Fisher no longer seems just gung-ho but also now a bit, well, sinister. Same goes for SHIELD, although to be fair it does look like the show is going to address that with Skye’s Anonymous-esque credentials. Also J August Richards’s speech against those getting trampled underfoot didn’t just have overtones of the superheroes he was ostensibly referring to. Not that anyone wants the show to get bogged down in politics but it just seems to me that how we view SHIELD itself is now much more in shades of grey than it was even when The Avengers was released.

Still sticking with Orphan Black but it’s still not rocking my world yet. Does it make me sound like a prig in that part of my problem with it seems to be that I’m being asked to empathise with a few sociopathic petty criminals? I just don’t really like any of the main characters yet…

Compare this with Atlantis which had characters that engaged me almost immediately. This was also one of the main strengths of Merlin to me. It wasn’t brilliant, it was often a bit silly, but the bonds between the main characters kept me coming back because I liked and cared about them. It does follow the Merlin template a bit too closely in places (with bits of Prince of Persia and Game of Thrones thrown in for good measure) but I still liked a lot more than I expected to. Am looking forward to a weekly riff on Classical mythology now. Mark Addy’s Hercules is a nice debunking of the traditional Hercules myths. Minos does seem to be Uther mk2 though with the Queen taking the Morgana role and Ariadne taking Gwen’s.

[Anonymous @]

@scaryb–

 re people waking up in a past time (as you do) – sure Twilight Zone had that covered a few times also 

Sorry, just caught this one. Very true but I was thinking more in the context of it actually being used in a cop show and the whole cops being flung into different time periods to solve a crime in both of them. I’m sure there are lots of other examples but bearing in mind how lauded (deservedly) Life on Mars was, I found it interesting to find a show exploring the same premise more than 20 years previously…

But then I’d say that Magnum PI is a vastly underrated show. I still love it with a fiery passion….

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@jimthefish

Yes, I liked Atlantis best. It wasn’t thoughtful entertainment, but it was entertaining. But please, dear lord, can we see a bit more of the women next week? This was like ‘Saturday teatime entertainment for the boys’. And no, a bloke taking his shirt off is not a case of ‘well, that’s the girls taken care of’. 🙂

Shield: like you, I had mixed feelings about the pilot – for one thing, I think they should have been given a double length episode. But then, the Buffy pilot was a bit wobbly, and look how that went. I suspect, though, that a conflict between the normal Shield method of operations (lying, assassinations, secrecy, more lying) and the new Agent Coulson team’s methods has already been set up. Don’t want to do too many spoilers – but think who Coulson stuck that truth drug into.

The Avengers film itself was already fairly dubious about Shield; it was just that they were even more dubious about the World Council. 🙂

Orphan Black – I’m going to need to catch episode 3 on IPlayer, so if someone could persuade me that I need to…

[Anonymous @]

@bluesqueakpip — I agree. I don’t think Buffy really found its feet until season two — or the season one finale at a push. It really was incredibly luck when you think about it. If it had been made just a few years later the chances are it would never have been renewed in the first place in the brutal world where a show has to succeed within the first three or four episodes. (Think that might be changing back again now in the Netflix era hopefully.)

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@jimthefish @bluesqueakpip

Thanks for the comments on Atlantis and Shield – I’ll give them a shot.

I’m really enjoying Orphan Black, it’s slowish pace to start, but it’s building and epi 3 answers a few questions and sets up several more. Depends how it develops eg if they pursue the nature/nurture theme.  I like the fact that Sarah’s character is morally ambivalent, but I think our view of her may change as we get to know her. When we first meet her in epi 1 she’s a character at a crossroads; she’s obv made bad choices in the past, but the deck may also have been (deliberately?) stacked against her.  Fee’s gaining a bit more depth as it goes on, but I actually quite liked him. For all his flaws he’s set up as the go-to person if you’re in trouble, so he has to have something going for him.

Agree re Buffy – and all new series (inc introducing new Doctors) – usually takes at least the first season to really bed in. Shame about the pressures put on new series to perform well from the starting blocks. Incidentally, Dr Who gets a higher rating (8.7) on imdb than Buffy (8) 🙂

I forgot about Magnum PI, was never a regular, but liked the odd dip into it.

[PhaseShift @phaseshift Time Lord]

@jimthefish @bluesqueakpip

I must admit, I thought Atlantis a bit stilted in places, but there was enough to make me want to tune in. I had similar feelings when Merlin first started and ended up enjoying it as a romp. It helps to have people like Mark Addy in a comic role (very like his squire in A Knights Tale). Nice to see Alexander Siddig, even though he didn’t get much to do as the King, and it took me a while to realise that was Sarah “Empress of Racnoss” Parish as the Queen.

If I had one hope for this, it’s that as it develops it might play with a bit more off-the-wall humour. A bit like Xena used to do. I still have happy memories of that show because it did comedy really well. Still find myself bursting into Joxer the Mighty every now and again.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

Aos to me suffered a little bit from what I think killed Dollhouse for me.

Have you ever seen the original version of the Dollhouse pilot (before the Fox execs interfered)?. If not, it is worth hunting down. Probably about 90% the same content, but a much more interesting feel to it.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

I didn’t mind Atlantis, but suspect it will have the same trajectory for me as Merlin: I like it well enough, and will watch it if its is on, but never once feel the need to watch it (see also Robin Hood, all the Stargate series and NCIS). Well done, very slick and professional but…. where’s the edge?

Orphan Black has a lot of edge – maybe too much for some – but I much prefer its raggedness to chrome.

Curiously, Buffy had me at the end of the cold opening. I was its bitch form then on.

[wolfweed @wolfweed]

http://www.combom.co.uk/2013/10/thunderbirds-are-go-with-lots-of-dw.html

[Anonymous @]

I am an avid Whovian as well as a Trekkie.  I love Sci-Fi stuff and grew up with it all my life.  My dad first showed me Star Trek and Star Wars at a young age and since then I have been a geek.  I enjoy science so much and these shows were the impossible is possible.  I am also a gun and military enthusiast.  I play Airsoft frequently as well. I love military films and TV programmes.  I have lived in Southern California, USA all my life and most kids are interested in SWAG, skateboarding, drugs, and stuff like that.  I’m just over here watching Doctor Who, Sherlock, Star Trek, and Star Wars.  I have created two Whovians and the infection is spreading from them.  It is a good infection though.  I have seen the whole 2nd Series and hope to watch the whole classic series next.  So far the 10th Doctor, David Tennant is my favorite.  I love his personality.  He is passionate, brilliant, and hilarious.  He has moments of sorrow and grief, but the moments when he is energetic and funny are the best.  I am very anxious to see Peter Capaldi in his new role as the 12th incarnation of the Doctor.  He has a cool accent, and I have enjoyed him in other films so I am hoping he will be a great Doctor.  Well thanks, and I hope to get to know some of you fellow Whovians better and learn some more about the infinite adventures of the Doctor and his companions and the dangers they run into.  Thanks, Noah

[Anonymous @]

David Tennant is to star in the US remake of Broadchurch

[Anonymous @]

@fatmaninabox – my reflex reaction is to say ‘bleurrgghh, an American remake’ although this one might not suck, since it will be exec-produced by Chris Chibnall, and he’s apparently written the first episode.

But what does this mean for David Tennant’s participation in a second UK series of Broadchurch?  We’ll have to wait and see …

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

Agents of SHIELD: I like it but I think I might be giving it a bit of a free pass because my boyfriend is (probably-mixed feelings) facing surgery and then three months of almost complete immobility- and he really likes it, and it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be one of the more dense, complex, really need to remember all the details from previous episodes (or as he put it, it’s goldfish-friendly so far).

I’m not sure about the casting- which is one of Whedon’s strong points, normally, makes me wonder how much control he’s had- he usually re-uses more actors, I’ve been playing ‘fantasy Whedon stable of actors casting’. Skye is good, but the role feels written for Dashku- does she really need to be that young? Nothing whatsoever wrong with ‘the Cavalry’

Nice Firefly touch when they’re running/driving onto the bus. And calling it a bus. And I think the Rising Tide plot arc could be interesting. I’m concerned that the Coulson mystery will end up a massive disappointment. They’ve hyped it up quite a bit, and I really am intrigued to know what could be so bad he could never know.

I am a bit concerned they won’t have time to really establish the show.  the first season is rarely the best season in my experience, for one thing actors tend to grow into their roles, and I like scripts that can reference a shared history with the audience.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

@miapatrick

Agents of SHIELD – yes, still watchable, still developing. I agree with you re the Skye part – maybe Dushku wasn’t available.  Hope all goes well with your bf.

Anyone else watching Orphan Black? Epi 4, and I’m definitely hooked. So many intriguing questions. If they’re the same, why are they all different? eg Alison soccer mom is the antithesis of Sarah in many ways. And is Sarah different again? What is the experiment investigating? They should check out the adoption agency!!!

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@miapatrick and @scaryb – yes, I’m still happy to watch Agents of Shield develop. I think a lot of people are expecting Buffy, and are surprised that they’ve got Toy Story instead.

He’s already had two members of his rep company on board; Clark Gregg was in his Much Ado About Nothing as Leonatus and J August Richards was playing Mike in Pilot. That was pretty much the same way he worked in Firefly; all the regular cast were new – the rep company played the guest spots.

He’s also already got Alexis Denisov in a recurring part in the movies. 🙂

[thommck @thommck]

@scaryb, @bluesqueakpip, @jimthefish, @phaseshift, @miapatrick
Loving all the sci-fi/fantasy on TV at the moment!

Agents of SHIELD is fairly amusing family viewing but it hasn’t really enamoured itself too me yet. Seems a bit too “American” if you know what I mean. All glossy hair-styles and cheesey dialogue. I’m hoping it rises above itself and develops into something a bit more than light entertainment. The more it distances itself from Wheedon the better IMHO.

It reminds me a lot of Torchwood in the early days (minus the sex and weevils obviously!). The thing I like most is watching my sons pick up on all the Marvel references in it. There faces light up with glee when they here a characters name or the Hydra reference in last Fri’s episode.

I enjoyed the 2nd episode of Atlantis too. It seems to be sticking fairly rigidly to the Merlin formula, which is not a bad thing per-se but they seem to be using the same sets and locations too. My wife said “I’m sure I saw that rock in Merlin” :D. Poor Medusa with her inescapable destiny 🙁

I managed to catch the first episode of Orphan Black last night. I loved the style of it and looking forward to seeing how the rest of it plays out. Not too keen on the foster-brother character, he seems a bit of a stereotype but I did have to laugh at him a couple of times. The U.S./U.K. blend seems a lot better than Starz did with the Torchwood cast.

I’m still enjoying Under the Dome too. I like how lingering questions seem to get answered quite rapidly rather than arching over the whole series (or sometimes not at all, ahem Moffat). I just need to avoid spoilers now I think the first series is over in the States

[CraigNixon @craignixon]

SHIELD I liked, mainly because I squee’d when Ron Glass came on stage. Coulson is probably a Zombie  😀

[Anonymous @]

Hi @scaryb – per your comment 17581 above –

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-10-08/bbc-bosses-optimistic-that-iplayer-window-will-extend-from-7-to-30-days

Viewers can currently stream content for seven days after it has aired (or download it and keep it on their computers for 30 days) but the Corporation’s director of strategy and digital James Purnell assured RadioTimes.com that various complicated rights deals will mean that “most” of the BBC’s output will be able to be streamed again over the 30 day period.

Traditionally, most BBC output has been made available on iPlayer, with movies and sports programming facing the most stumbling blocks over rights.

However, favourites such as dramas Doctor Who and Sherlock and entertainment shows like Strictly Come Dancing are certain to be safe.

[ScaryB @scaryb]

Still having problems with iplayer – downloaded the new app, which kind of works, but only 1 prog at a time (not series). The original player meantime keeps telling me it’s deleted Name of the Dr, which it never downloaded in the first place. Argh!  OTOH it’s now managed to get the hang of downloading Orphan Black which is now at episode 5.

No-one else watching it? @bluesqueakpip? I’m seriously impressed with it so far

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@scaryb – I seem to be doomed with Orphan Black. My DVR keeps forgetting to record it; I think it’s having a fist fight with Agents of Shield, which is on just before. Then I only realise that my DVR didn’t record an episode when it’s gone off iPlayer. Watching this series is just not to be.

Agents of Shield is fun, though… 🙂

[Author]

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