On The Sofa (7)

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  • #45542

    It is half term over here.

    It shows.

    #45543
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    I too am loving the ‘hayness’. Hmm, what’s wrong with the show? Oh yeah, there’s too much hay.

    Also the assumption that to appeal to the US market requires ‘dumbing down’ shows a profound ‘out of touchness’ with the current realities of TV production in both countries….

    #45544
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    There is no trolling here. A simple statement of opinion. The writing IS the worst the Doctor, and everyone else, has ever had to put up with. Just picture this. A first time viewer starts with season 9 episode 1. WOW! they would never come back for episode 2. I love Doctor Who. I want more of what we had with Tenant and Smith, the writers gave those boys every chance to be great Doctors. Poor old Capaldi will be know as the Doctor who sunk the series and it’s not his fault. Seriously bring back the screwdriver at least!

    #45545
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish

    A simple statement of opinion. The writing IS the worst

    Well, at least this one is funny…

    #45546
    Anonymous @

    @pedant @purofilion

    Ah, I see you’ve taken care of things. I was going to respond to our new friend but was too busy squeeing my pants at ‘the news’. It took 3 swift mugs of coffee to calm me down 😉

    I will say this though – taking the name of a companion as ones username and using a photo of the wrong companion as an avatar – duh!

    #45548
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    I foresee a book title in the making:

    “Hayness Crimes: The Wit and Wisdom of the Troll”

    #45549
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    The truly heinous thing is some individuals ability to get past an error that the spell checker missed and of course the fact that anyone could think the writing this season was clever!

    #45550
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Well let me see, Clara Oswald and Amy Pond , my favourite Doctor companions, so why not!

    #45552
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @seeoswald

    see, the thing is just making those kind of broad, unsupported opinions just isn’t what happens here.

    If you think the writing is poorer this year, then spell out, with examples, why you think so. That way, people can engage with you, offer counter arguments or perhaps even be won over to your way of thinking. You could then, for the purpose of comparison, offer examples of what constituted stronger writing in previous years and why.

    To just rock up with the kind of posts above just makes you look, well, something of a bridge-dweller.

    Personally, I view the last six episodes, occasional missteps aside, as one of the strongest runs of episodes in the show’s history. And overall, I’d say the last couple of years and Moffatt’s run in general as having consistently higher quality of writing than the era that preceded it.

    #45554
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Ponder this. Name one Sci-Fi or Comedy TV show that comes out of the USA, that’s worth watching, that does not have a significant Canadian influence in the writing, production or cast!

    Americans are not funny and rarely clever and of course if there is anything truly good on US TV it lasts 1 or 2 seasons and gets canned because it’s to clever for the viewing public.

    This is an excerpt from the 2006 Geographic Literacy Study for the National Geographic Education Foundation. Specifically for American adults ages 18 to 24.

    <span style=”color: #000000;”><span style=”font-family: Tahoma;”><span style=”font-size: small;”>Half or fewer of young men and women 18-24 can identify the states of New York or Ohio on a map (50% and 43%, respectively).</span></span></span>

    Yes it is dumbed down for the Americans.

    <span style=”color: #000000;”><span style=”font-family: Tahoma;”><span style=”font-size: small;”><span style=”font-family: Liberation Serif,serif;”><span style=”font-size: medium;”>You don’t even what to know about the 2002 survey</span></span>.
    </span></span></span>

    #45555

    @jimthefish @purofilion @fatmaninabox @blenkinsopthebrave

    Oh, now we have hayness with added racism!

    (I must admit I thought hayness was just the feeling of having an allergic reaction to grass pollen, as in “Every spring I feel really hayness, and it last for weeks.”

    #45556
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @seeoswald

    Sorry, but this is not a comment about the writing of the text ‘Doctor Who’.

    As a helpful hint: you can identify the writing (if you don’t happen to have a script to hand) by listening to what the actors say (while in character) and by paying attention to the setting and action within a scene.

    Anything about the cultural environment of overseas sales areas (including the poor state of geography teaching in the US) is not a comment on the writing of Doctor Who. Comments on writing require evidence taken from the text itself.

    Your marks may improve in future if you learn to distinguish between a text and the cultural environment it is produced in.

    #45559
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    JimTheFish. I take note of what you said, but how can you say ” I view the last six episodes, occasional missteps aside, as one of the strongest runs of episodes in the show’s history” and keep a straight face. The Doctor has always been out there and with unbelievable feats of daring do or feats of “linguistic legerdemain and a degree of intrepidity” to save the day… BUT….  the tank, the guitar, the bloody sunglasses and lets not leave out the ridiculous eels. On top of that, no pause before we get Ashildr back, straight back in to her story the very next episode. That character should not have returned for 3 or 4 episodes. There is no finesse or cleverness to this season, so far. I still hold out some hope.

    #45560

    Don’t Monty Python have a song about span?

    #45562
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Sorry Bluesqueakpip (somebody else try typing that without laughing) but you are wrong that was a comment on the writing of Doctor Who as I seriously believe that this seasons writing so below par because it has been dumbed down to appeal to a broader American market.

    #45563
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Captain Jack is made immortal by Rose and we later discover, much later, that he is also the Face of Bo.

    River song is Amy Ponds daughter, stolen at infancy and trained to be a weapon against the Doctor.

    Clara Oswald helps the Doctor steal the TARDIS and inconspicuously shows up to help save him countless times throughout his history.

     

    These are clever story lines, with each episode interesting enough to also stand alone. Bring back the real writers please.

    #45565
    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    @fatmaninabox

    was too busy squeeing my pants at ‘the news’. It took 3 swift mugs of coffee to calm me down

    Are you talking about Tennant’s new audio dramas. I’ve never listened to any but that seems like a good place to start.

    Careful anyone googling Doctor Who news. The second article in my search result mentioned potential serious spoilers for the series end. The Mirror started the article with “Spoilers. . .” Then gave it away in the heading rather than after redirecting. I had no chance to look away. Damn this Information age we live in!

     

    #45566
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @seeoswald

    I’ve been trying to give up engaging with the trolls, but I’ll fall off the wagon just this once.

    But this…

    Americans are not funny and rarely clever and of course if there is anything truly good on US TV it lasts 1 or 2 seasons and gets canned because it’s to clever for the viewing public.]

    Except of course Buffy, Angel, Battlestar Galactica, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, The Wire, Treme, Generation Kill, The Sopranos, Arrested Development, Breaking Bad, The X Files, The West Wing… I could go on. And on. Because there are many more.

    Frankly nothing on British TV — not even Who unfortunately — comes remotely near the quality and cleverness of the drama coming out of the States and that’s been the case for knocking on for 15 years now. To try and pretend otherwise is nonsense — and jingoistic and patronising nonsense at that.

    But as Pip says, some lameass anecdote about geographical ignorance does not in any way constitute an argument about the quality or otherwise of the quality of writing in Who. So again, give some examples of this ‘dumbing down’ (that doesn’t actually exist anyway). Or how about an easier one, explain why appealing to the American market is actually a bad thing in the first place.

    Oh, and insulting other forum members will get you modded from here on in. Just so we’re clear.

    #45567
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @spacedmunkee

    Yes, I got caught by that one, as well. Still, at least it’s only The Mirror – who seem to be the first port of call for the ‘disinformation’ team at BBC Cardiff. 😈

    #45568
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip and @spacedmunkee

    Yes, the Mirror is usually disinformation central but this time it’s got attributed quotes from Moffatt, Williams etc. And a lot of the info is very specific. And Moffatt wouldn’t lie to the Press, right??

    Right?? 🙂

    #45569
    Anonymous @

    @spacedmunkee

    Are you talking about Tennant’s new audio dramas

    Yup – see here.

    If you live in the UK, keep an eye on Radio4extra, they occasionally broadcast 4th, 7th and 8th Doctor stories.

     

    #45570
    spacedmunkee @spacedmunkee

    Thanks @fatmaninabox but am in Oz. A quick search has resulted in me finding the podcast.  Got so much catching up to do. I love this Information Age we live in 😉

    #45573
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Joss Whedon’s stuff aside, he IS the exception to the rule. BattleStar, X-Files and Mad Men all have a Canadian influance. Game of Thrones is so good I have not bothered to investigate who is responsible for it. The rest I’ve never watched or don’t consider worthy of watching. People keep telling me good things about Breaking Bad, I just haven’t had the time to sample it and see if it’s worthy. Firefly was the best TV ever made and didn’t even get the whole first season aired. I’m a fan of Vikings too.

    BTW Who did I insult?

    #45574
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @jimthefish

    As Robert Heinlein had a character say in one of his novels: the best way to lie is to tell the truth and nothing but the truth – but not the whole truth.

    Moffat’s done that before, when he announced he was done, finished with the Master. 🙂

    #45575
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    On that note how does everyone feel about Missy being the Master, personally I thought is was rather lame almost lazy.

    #45576
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @seeoswald

    You haven’t actually watched the show, have you?

    #45577
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @seeoswald — Canadian influence? What does that even mean? Aside from just being more jingoistic pish.

    It pleases me greatly that Steven Moffatt, Peter Capaldi and Michelle Gomez hail from my part of the world but that doesn’t mean that there’s remotely any kind ‘Scottish influence’ in Who currently. Just that several key members of the crew happen to come from there.

    With regards to US TV, the fact of whether you’ve sampled it or not (or ‘consider it worthy’) is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the body of work coming out of that country is sufficient to utterly dispel the nonsense that appealing to an American market somehow constitutes ‘dumbing down’. If anything the opposite is becoming increasingly the case.

    @bluesqueakpip — yes, Moffatt is very much the master of hiding plot points in plain sight from the media. He’s like a Weeping Angel with a press release….

    #45578
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    You’ve lost me. I’ve seen every episode that the BBC has not lost.

    #45579
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Jim listen to yourself “Just that several key members of the crew happen to come from there.” that brings the influence, like it or not. They are from Scottland, they have a Scottish way about them they think like Scotts. It has an influence.  “The body of work”, more is not better the USA makes more “Comedy” than any other country. But the funniest people on TV over the last 50 years has always been the British. Quality over quantity any day. I’d watch 10 Monty Python episodes a day over and over for years rather than have to watch 1 episode a week of “the King of Queens”, as an example.

    #45580
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    I’ve seen every episode that the BBC has not lost.

    Of course you have. You have also mixed up the icon that goes with the user name, seem to be slightly confused on which current writers created which story line and haven’t said anything about Series 9 that couldn’t be discovered from a quick trawl of ‘Best Trolling Topics for Doctor Who forums’.

    This forum expects better from its trolls. Both lame and lazy.

    Now, where was my pointy stick…

    #45581
    Anonymous @

    Sigh… I  promised myself I wouldn’t feed the troll,  BUT

     

    I’ll take 30 minutes in Mayberry over the entire mass of BritComs every time and would have to seriously consider it even with Python.

    See, the Andy Griffith Show is funny, but you’re not laughing AT the citizens of Mayberry, you’re laughing WITH Sheriff Taylor and the rest.  Scriptwriting perfection;  you figure out all you need to know about Mayberry and her citizens  in 30 minutes.  Every B&W episode is a standalone piece of Americana with no real need for continuity.

     

    Don’t tell me you can’t tell a good TV story in 21 minutes of airtime.  The Andy Griffith Show crew did it for YEARS ON END.

     

    #45582
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    @seeoswald

    No, you listen to yourself. This is utter tripe you’re talking here.

    I think I’ve got a pretty strong grasp on the Scottish culture and mindset, and, a few jokes aside, it absolutely does not manifest itself in Who. No more than RTD’s Welshness did when he was showrunner. This really is an idiotic argument. Sure, a writer’s upbringing will inform their work to some extent but it absolutely does not colour the entire show.

    But the funniest people on TV over the last 50 years has always been the British

    utterly, utterly subjective. And not necessarily true. So, yet again, jingoistic bs.

    I’d watch 10 Monty Python episodes a day over and over for years rather than have to watch 1 episode a week of “the King of Queens”, as an example

    Cherry-picking will get you nowhere. Quite apart from the fact that Monty Python, like all sketch shows, is moments of inspired genius surrounded by lots and lots of overrated and mediocre crap, I could just as easily say:

    I’d watch 10 episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm over one episode of Gavin and Stacey. Or Hannah and Her Sisters over The Sex Lives of the Potato Men. Or Arrested Development over Love Thy Neighbour.

    What you actually need to do is go away and take a good look at yourself and why you think that it’s somehow just not possible for America to produce good TV drama and comedy. Sure it produces some crap as well — as does the UK — but taken like for like, the US has dramatically and consistently outperformed the UK in the past decade and a half.

    #45583
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    No I have merged my favourite 2 companions.

    I don’t care if some of the writers of the current series also wrote some of my favourite episodes. It’s clear that they have lost the plot and need to do better.

    I’ve been watching the Doctor since the 70’s. Tom Baker was my Doctor Who and still the best with Matt Smith 2nd and David Tenant 3rd and I’ve watched every episode from s01e01 to current, that the BBC has not lost. I have them here along with 140TB’s of Movies and TV.

    #45584
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Out performed how? What do you consider to be.. what.. good performance?

    Do these numbers for performance: Total number of shows produced vs total number worth watching.

    British Television wins hands down.

    #45585
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Think about this. While you and I will not watch most of the crap the USA produces someone in the USA and a large number of someones must be watching it or it would get canned. Just think about that and then tell me shows trying to break into the American market don’t get dumbed down for a better fit.

     

     

    Have to sleep, night.

    #45586
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Just to warn everyone: it is half term in the UK, so we might get a few more of the Underbridge family deciding to drop in.

    #45587
    cumquat @cumquat

    I am forced to write yet again to complain about the appalling practice on this site to engage with haters and trolls like myself with reasoned argument. In spite of my previous warnings to fellow haters and trolls that interaction with this site could lead to an unfortunate awaking of civility and reason in the troll—a prospect, which for haters and trolls like myself, is profoundly unsettling—the occasional troll still stumbles onto this site. The outcome is, obviously, alarming.

    For we trolls will fight against reasoned argument, and will stand our ground in the face of contradictory evidence, and continue to press our case (which, remember, is always a complaint). Why do we trolls do this? Because we want recognition. Very much like the screaming toddler who wants to be picked up. Reasoned argument does not work on the troll, for the same reason it does not work on the screaming toddler. What sets us trolls apart is our ability to not mature beyond the stage of the screaming toddler.

    This is our strength. We are still pure, and have not been infected by the sins of maturity, such as reason and civility (such loathsome terms, I feel).

    And yet we are so often treated as if we were mature, as I have witnessed on this deplorable site time and time again.

    As my late husband, Brian Unctuous Michael Quat, used to say: “It’s a bleeding hayness crime”.

    Yours truly,
    Catherine Ursula Margaret Quat (Mrs)

    #45589
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @seeoswald    As to the three shows that you have referred to as having “Canadian influence”, well, okay, they were all filmed in Vancouver. I live there and know people in the film industry there, and I can say with certainty that the only Canadian thing about those shoes was that they used local crew and extras, they filmed in our streets, and we all got to complain every time their mobile dressing rooms started occupying street parking in our neighbourhoods. The creators, writers, directors, and lead actors were all American. We’ve had some decent Canadian TV over the years, but it didn’t feel anything like “Mad Men”.

    Thus if the Scots here on the Forum say that they aren’t seeing any inherent “Scottishness” in the current DW, I’m inclined to take them at their word. I’m no longer a huge TV watcher, but my son is, and is an intelligent young man with pretty good taste, and he has found lots to love in shows like Breaking Bad, Suits, White Collar, The Family Guy, and so on. Just sayin’.

    @cumquat   🙂 🙂 🙂

    #45595

    @cumquat

    POTD.

    #45618
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    I watch Suits and White collar, they are Ok shows, good time fillers but they are not GREAT. Doctor Who is/was GREAT along with shows like Game of Thrones, Vikings, Spooks, The Sweeney, Minder, The X-Files, Open all Hours and Danger Mouse. There are others but I’m a little to wiped out remember them right now.

    It’s this simple, I love watching Doctor Who. I am completely and bitterly disapointed in the writing for this season, what was once GREAT is no longer and I have a right to say so. This season is bloody awful.

    #45631
    winston @winston

    @cumquat   You are trolling with some very funny bait.

    #45637
    Anonymous @

    @seeoswald

    Oh, we’re sorry to hear you say that! Hope it improves for you. What, exactly is wrong with the writing in your opinion? What could be done better, for example?

    I agree Who is a great show – I don’t know the other shows you mention at all except Game of Thrones and that, after 1 season, bored me to tears as a perfect example of violent blood porn. I thought X-Files was pretty good back in the day though.

    Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you how you think the show (Who) might be improved.

    @cumquat awesome mate, bloody awesome. You should see a few people on this thread and the other one; The Girl Who Lived, for example: living examples of your ‘artistic’ rendition. 🙂

    Kindest,

    Puro

    #45641
    janetteB @janetteb

    Umm. I seem to recall that X files was a U.S. production and despite being filmed in Ireland and Europe and casting almost entirely U.K and European actors Game of Thrones is a U.S. production.

    (Not going to bother putting the name link up. I think the troll has enough to chew on.)

    Cheers

    Janette

    #45642
    Anonymous @

    @seeoswald

    Spooks  -great telly?

    My arse! God, at 11 years of age, my boy could differentiate the repetition in that shit. A friend, who teaches Film and TV at a local QLD univ, has pulled Spooks apart as an “overdone, overdead and overwooden” piece of 10 year long “derangement”.

    Shame though, because you like Firefly. Thing is, who are you to define something as “worthy” ?

    Sociopaths do that.  So, continue in that line and you’ll find yourself not getting many job interviews. God @bluesqueakpip when will this half term vacation be over and we can go back to people with reasonable IQs not over-filled with vain ARSE and the trappings of “knowledge about TV” who cannot offer one single sentence describing exactly why Doctor Who isn’t “good anymore?”

    I need to start a class:

    “I don’t like DW now because________. In the characterisation, for example, we have____________. In earlier episodes, this feature was_____________ I would suggest that plot points in the 70s and 80s were clever and interesting as demonstrated by _______________whilst in S8, last year, in the episode _________, the plot was noticeably problematic as Act 1 didn’t connect to _______ and the episode was Arc heavy. On the topic of Arcs, I should state Doctor B.S. Blameyoos and his views on the matter. He claims_____________ and in Doctor Who Magazine (Vol 10, 2007, 1-111) he recommends:___________An a priori examination will, on first investigation, reveal simply that__________________.

    See @seeoswald ? -write something like that and people might listen.

    You could also pass something…..

    #45643
    Anonymous @

    @seeoswald

    OK, I get it now: you hate it because of one tank, the Doctor playing a guitar, wearing some sunglasses (because no-one wears them) and because of eels, which, in Northern Europe I’d kill to remove (from creeks) so they wouldn’t mate with the ‘normal’ eel.

    On these things alone, you want to blow up your TV. I think that’s a sensible idea. I doubt the Doctor will ever stand on another machine, put something on his eyes or his head (like a fez for example) or ever play a musical instrument -considering he’s played the piano, the harpsichord and other percussion (and yes, keyboards are percussion)   🙂

    Dear me. @jimthefish at least you mentioned The West Wing but it’s probably “not worthy” for this young lady.

    Well, I’ll go back to Northern Exposure -that was pretty good  but before some people’s time, I believe. 🙂

    Keep up the smiles people 🙂 They win hands down.

    #45644
    Anonymous @

    @seeoswald or Amy Pond but you know this gets worse with every sentence:

    Americans are not funny and rarely clever

    In what ways can you identify in the last 300 years where Americans are rarely clever? What books? What telly shows? What comedians? Chiefly what plays? Seen any? Have you seen what has come out of Princeton lately? Or Yale? No?

    I didn’t think so.

    Anyway, I’m gonna disappear for awhile. I’ve fed too many trolls lately.

    #45662
    WorldAway @worldaway

    Hello all, new here, both to the site, and watching the show. Get up a couple hours early just to catch it on BBC. Anyway, I’m glad to have found this site, and hope to be around for awhile.

    #45664

    @purofilion

    Well, I’ll go back to Northern Exposure

    I still have my “It’s not what you fling, it’s the flings itself” T-Shirt

    #45685
    seeoswald @seeoswald

    Well it’s clear why this forus has so little use. I’ll make my last remarks about Doctor Who here now.

    I love Who. The first 18 seasons where great. Things went down hill somewhat from there. By season 26 all was lost and the Doctor took a substantial hiatus. 1996 Mcgann tried to be Tom Baker and failed and then it was another 9 years until the 27th season, this season had me a little worried. As good an actor as Eccleston is he was not Doctor Who and then Tenant joined the show. The Doctor was BACK! Tenant leaving the show had me very worried and I was expecting a repeat of what followed after season 18, BUT then “Matt Smith” the youngest actor to ever play the Doctor” (also a concern) absolutely nail the character. The Doctor was moving on stronger than ever. The 34th season was a little rocky at the start but I honestly thought, by the end, Capaldi was starting to slot into the role. This, the 35th season of Doctor Who … well. No matter how great an actor you are, acting ability alone can not make sh*t scripts good.

    #45686
    nerys @nerys

    @seeoswald So little use? Clearly you need to get around more. One or two posts a day constitutes “little use” in my book. But that was feigned indignation, of that I am sure. A common fallback, when all else fails. of trolls.

    As for the quality of the scripts, “eye of the beholder” and all. And Eccleston? We’ll agree to disagree.

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