S31 (5) 12 – The Pandorica Opens

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  • #1703
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Repeated on BBC3 on 18 January, the Doctor confronts an army of old enemies, and Amy battles a Cyberman. And then the Pandorica opens.

    You can watch it here until 25 January:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00stv7m/Doctor_Who_Series_5_The_Pandorica_Opens/

    #1731
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    I’ve just rewatched this. What the old blogs thought can be found here.

    I actually made the first comment on that thread.

    I think I just had a fan-gasm. May post later when I’ve re-attached my retinas. Eye Popping.

    I still feel the same. The previous series, you kind of knew what to expect in a the end two parter, but at the end of Pandorica, everything seemed up for grabs. I loved the reveal of the Romans being Nestene replicants. That surpise made up the abomination of Plastic Mickey in “Rose”.

    The scene with the lone Cyberman in the Underhenge is brilliantly done. I originally watched it with a kid and she was horrified when the head unsealed to reveal the skull. The final scene with all the stars exploding is jaw dropping.

    #5135
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    I found this screen shot of the painting used in the ep.  It seems to have loads of numbers on it!  I can’t verify whether this is actually the painting….. Anyone here know anything about these numbers?

    Close-up of numbers:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s59ARuFLHSs/TB1nNl0Id8I/AAAAAAAACZk/PkzopKBEQKU/s1600/Pandorica5.jpg

    the full painting:

    http://anysize.org/~ashi/exploding-tardis.png

    #5137
    Anonymous @

    @ardaraith — excellent research. No ideas yet re. the numbers but I’d say that there could even be more than two TARDISes colliding here. But at least two, I reckon.

    @phaseshift — I agree. This and The Big Bang have to be one of the best two parters that nu-Who has done. Certainly the best series finale.

    In fact, for my money series five is the strongest of nu-Who’s run, with even the weakest episodes still having decent rewatch value. There’s nothing the equivalent of a Fear Her or a Boom Town here.

    #5139
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @jimthefish @ardaraith Numbers on the Tardis – I seem to remember on Dan’s blog at the time that someone came up with a theory that these are the gps(?)/orienteering/map refs (something like that) for some of the Who on-location shoots. (They had it down to which numbers represented which location)

    (And I agree with your verdict re BB and TPO) (Not least cos us “it’s not a continuity error, it’s a different doctor” theorists were completely vindicated, LOL))

    #5143
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Haven’t a clue, mainly because I can’t actually read the numbers.  🙂  Or the words.

    The only readable number is XXI – twenty one. That was the series when Peter Davison regenerated into Colin Baker.

    #5145
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    Well, the top letters look Latin.  If that is Veneris, then it’s Venus…. res, is a ‘thing’ – a material thing.

    21 Jan 102

    One would think, going to that much effort, it should have some significance.

    #5147
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    The date is when they were in ancient Briton, of course.

    #5149
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip, @scaryb and @ardaraith — well, the words look like a date. I think the words are Dies Veneris which is Latin for Friday (Day of Venus). So that would be Friday, January 21, the year 102 presumably. I’m assuming that this is when the episode is set?

    The arabic numerals below could well be map refs of location shoots.

    It would be nice if it was in fact a bit fat clue to what’s coming up, but I suspect it’s just more Easter Eggs for the geeks like us…

    #5151
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Hi all –

    Just a quick one. Got back in and I stink. Need possibly several baths. And to burn my cloths. An incident with Ethyl Mercaptan.

    @ardaraith

    I think what @scaryb might be referring to was some work by @haveyoufedthefish on the G blogs during the Snowman. I think this was his initial comment.

    http://discussion.guardian.co.uk/comment-permalink/20264870

    Does anyone have a loofer the size of a vengeful planet god

    #5155
    Anonymous @

    @ardaraith — great minds. I think what this is meant to represent is the message to be handed down to the Doctor. Be at these co-ordinates on this date.

    #5157
    Anonymous @

    @phaseshift

    Yes, she’s a wild one that Ethel Mercaptan. Or at least that’s the word in the locker rooms of the galaxy…

    #5159
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    It makes sense that Van Gogh popped the date they had to go to in the picture. I will say that they seem to have selected the 21st of January on the grounds that it’s a deeply unexciting date. The only thing I can find out about it is that it’s when Lenin died. 🙂

    #5209
    Anonymous @

    Just rewatched this. It’s a belter. Can someone remind me of the current theories regarding the date of the TARDIS’s destruction?

    June 26 2010, wasn’t it?

    #5213
    WhoHar @whohar

    @jimthefish @ardaraith

    My first thought was that the numbers were dates (from – to) but not so sure now.

    They each have 8 digits.although the first set appear to have a suffix of some kind.

    They could also be an equation if the “-” is a minus – I can’t read them well enough to “do the math”. Maybe it’s Moffat’s original budget request minus the BBC’s proposed cost?

    I did wonder if they were refs to DW eps. but think Classic Who used A, B, C notation for the stories going to AAAA (or 4A) 4B etc. as the series progressed. Not sure about NuWho though.

    They could also be telephone numbers (eg intra state nos. in Aus) but no idea why.

    More questions than answers I’m afraid.

    #5217
    The Buns @the-buns

    @jimthefish @ardaraith @whohar

    Looking at the painting has gotten me to sign up and post, so thank you!

    I did a little bit of Google translating and came up with:

    “es Veneris” – This auto translated as Catalan and means “venerate”.

    In Latin it means “art Friday”.  “Es Veneris” is “are Venus”

    The next wording I read as Januanus, not Januarus (which is January in Latin).  I zoomed in as much as I could and it looks more like an N than an R but I could be wrong.

    XX1 Januanus CII is a little more complicated.  “Januanus” is not a word in Latin according to translate. However “Janu anus” means “Old door” or “Aged Door”.

    As for the numbers below that, I am stumped!  I would love to know what it all means!

    #5237
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    @jimthefish @ardaraith@scaryb – you are indeed correct about the posts on Dans Blog … that was me (Bloody good memory @phaseshift!) !

    I’ve reprinted the original post below. For your further study – here’s the 4 points (roughly, I used names from the post not the actual co-ordinates) on a map http://goo.gl/maps/zw4Jq

    I’m wondering if the intersection point in the middle is what’s interesting (though it just looks like fields)? Any ideas? Are they filming anywhere near there?

    I’m really interested btw that people are thinking that the painting shows 2 (or more) tardis (tardii?) colliding. Without know any of that, I did posit last week that I thought Clara will be fragmented by simply being in the Tardis when it explodes, and that the (still unexplained) cause of the explosion River was in would be a collision between their two respective Tardis …

    ————-

    The numbers on the door of the tardis in the painting (if you add decimal points) are lat/long of 4 locations, all in the UK:

    ivy lane, chippenham
    symonds house, winchester
    wimbourne minster
    new street, wells

    Now I would say “so what” … except … except … the first two have been locations (within a few yards) of a Doctor Who Exhibition in 2009 and a Doctor Who writers workshop in 2012. I can’t help think that the odds must be astronomical on that being a co-incidence and is a crib to indicate this is the right interpretation of the numbers, but other than that, I’ve no idea what this could possibly mean (if anything)!

    #5239
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    @whohar – I don’t think these are (from – to) numbers – there definitely comma’s, they’re in the format 00000000, -00000000. Definitely coordinates imho (but not necessarily long/lat)

    #5287
    WhoHar @whohar

    @The_Buns

    Welcome and good deyective work on the Latin. The words are difficult to read though.and I can’t decide whether it is an r or an n. I did wonder if that date was a Friday as there have been a couple of alterations to the default calendar and some re-baselining of the dates. In the 16th (?) Century the powers decided to remove some days leading to riots by some parts of the population who believed that they had lost actual days from their life.

    @haveyoufedthefish
    I had another look at my “suffixes”. They do look like commas so coords do make sense. Stonehenge isn’t near any of these points is it?

    #5305
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    @whohar – Stonehenge is off centre but inside the 4 points. (Enter “stonehenge” in the google maps link i posted to see it relative to the 4 points)

    I’ve toyed with the idea that the centre is when the auton roman camp was …

    Here’s how I read the numbers, do people disagree? Bit weird that the 3rd set have an extra digit:

    51460434, -21194553
    510603114, -13168051
    50801987, -19155963
    51211350, -26459549

    @ardaraith – I personally think so much effort has gone into creating and foregrounding this clue that it must be a signpost to some humdinger of an Easter egg.

    #5309
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    the powers decided to remove some days leading to riots by some parts of the population who believed that they had lost actual days from their life.

    Not Who-related – though it’d make a nice plot point for an episode – but while I know that myth, I was told that the population were really rioting on the perfectly sensible grounds that they still had to pay rent for those eleven lost days. I’d be a bit annoyed as well, if I had to pay a week and a half’s rent for nothing.

    The government shifted the date of the tax year to get their eleven days back, but did they move the quarter days so that the people paid three months rent for three actual months? Nope.

    #5331
    ardaraith @ardaraith

    @haveyoufedthefish , I think it’s significant, as well.  Having watched prop makers at work, I know they don’t usually put such detail into a piece.  lol.  OH.  Maybe somewhere in there are the fields of Trenzalore ?? 

    Also, I had been interpreting the “fall of the eleventh” as a downfall, but it’s really Fall, as in the American version of Autumn, isn’t it??  The autumn of one’s life…coming to terms with one’s age. Perhaps this is why, in ROA, he finally mentions his granddaughter.

    #5339
    HaveYouFedTheFish @haveyoufedthefish

    @ardaraith – agreed. The first time I was on a film set I was shocked at how rough and ready the props were; for instance I remember being quite taken aback how the futuristic art deco table lamps (which looked fab on screen) were in fact recognisably badly cut off cuts of grey plastic drain pipe, haphazardly painted white and topped with a butterflied empty yoghurt pot. Knowing that, you can really see why shows have to be eased into HD because it requires such a leap in production values.

    #5555
    ScaryB @scaryb

    re the numbers – well remembered @phaseshift and @haveyoufedthefish

    #22688
    ChrisG @chrisg

    I have to admit I am impressed by the careful observations of several commentators on this page. There is a skill in seeing what is before your eyes and also in squaring off what you see as sensible pieces of a greater story.

    Here follows several points that I think are worth dwelling on (drawn from very different places or deduced from other known facts):

    1) The Pandorica Opens painting does appear to have two exploding TARDISes

    2) The Day of the Doctor special deliberately denied us a glimpse of the new face of the regenerating (Hurt) Doctor

    3) The manipulations of the Silence are very broad and include abduction and programming of children to carry out acts to achieve the ends of that movement

    4) The 11th Doctor no matter how much he tries to put his life in order (e.g. managing to save rather than destroy Gallifrey) remains troubled by his past and (up until now) has been “running from it”

    5) Clara (in the just released trailer to the 2013 Christmas special) demands of someone (some group, something) that they must help the Doctor to “change the future”. Who would have the power to do this and might be reasoned with to do so?

    Trenzalore specific points:

    6) A lot of people believe the Doctor will (be forced to) answer a question. Why would a triumphant Doctor do that? Why would a defeated Doctor do that, if it makes the situation worse (as it probably would)?

    7) Are there not reasons that would cause the Doctor himself to ask a question with a potentially deeply shattering answer?

    8) The clocks in Trenzalore show the midnight hour. Why?

    Regeneration specific points:

    9) Within the life of one Timelord how can there be any more than 12 regenerations? Wouldn’t that just be a cheat and destroy all credibility of the Doctor’s story? So, how can there be another regeneration without cheating when we have seen each regeneration for ourselves?

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