Silence in the Library – S30 (4) 8

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  • #52120
    Anonymous @

    @petri19 @doctordani

    It’s entirely possible River was told his name when Smith’s Doctor said “look into my eyes” (tWoRS). We know the Doctor lies, ergo River lies.

    Also, during the recent Christmas episode, River’s last night was ’24’ years on Darillium. There may have been whispers and pillow talk then.

    It’s possible.

    Also I love the letters for the Husbands of RS and The Wedding of RS – tHoRS and tWoRS-  🙂 -the Wedding and the Husband. Only one Husband and one actual (sort of), formal wedding. To the Doctor.

    🙂

    #52121
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @puroandson, @petri19 and @doctordani

    I don’t think it is a ‘dropped plot’, more something so intimate that we, the audience, were never privy to the moment the Doctor told River his name. If it’s a Gallifreyan marriage symbol of a genuine marriage, my romantic little heart suspects that he told her his name on Darillium as evidence that she is his true wife, after finding out that River doesn’t really think that the Doctor loves her. Whether he loves her or not, she’s his wife.

    But her apology in Silence is because, by telling his past self that she knows his name, she takes away his ability to show her that he loves her – because he will always know that he must tell her his name. It’s no longer a symbol of ultimate trust, but instead a necessary piece of their respective time lines.

    She’s always feared that he doesn’t really love her, but it was her own action that took away his ability to prove it.

    But in The Name of The Doctor, his earlier incarnation tells her later reflection that she’s always with him – in such a way that it’s pretty damn obvious that he loves her. In the end, there’s closure.

    Except it’s in the middle…

    … I think I’m gonna need a bigger flow-chart. 😀

    #52122
    Petri19 @petri19

    @puroandson @doctordani @bluesqueakpip

    Thank you for your answers, although I must say I can only agree with @doctordani.

    I don’t think the moment was supposed to be kept intimate, I think it was something more complicated.
    Like, imagine River was alive when the Doctor had to go to Trenzalore, that would explain why River was sorry. She was sorry because the Doctor was forced to open his grave, revealing one of his secrets.

    #52123
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @petri19

    I’d be perfectly happy to see River again, whether it’s River alive or River’s Library Ghost. And the story could be more complicated, if Moffat gets a great idea between now and the end of his producer’s run – or even after his producer’s run if he doesn’t do an RTD and have a firm ‘that’s the end’ for writing Who scripts.

    Or it might not be more complicated. ‘There’s only one time I could’ – is that a technical statement, or an emotional statement? Is he saying he can only tell someone, say, at the point of death, or is he saying he can only tell someone if he loves them completely?

    Both can justify ‘only one time I could’ (and Tennant’s shock) – when I’m dying; when I truly love you. When Moffat wrote that line, he left it very open-ended – it’s not a dropped plot, it’s a springboard for a possible plot.

    After all, from the Doctor’s point of view, not telling River his name is also a way of showing his love – because as long as she doesn’t know it, she can’t head off to the Library and her death. Which is another reason I think he told her on Darillium, when he finally stopped bottling out of taking her there.

    He had to learn to love her enough to let her go. The lesson he failed to learn for Clara, he managed to apply to River.

    #52124
    DoctorDani @doctordani

    @puroandson @bluesqueakpip @petri19 I must say, I really love the fact that there are so many different possible interpretations, but I don’t mind if it is used as a ‘springboard’ to bring River back at some point. She’s almost too good a character to close the door on permanently, especially as she only pops up now and again. Whether or not that would mean Twelve is going to go back to Darillium at some point before he regenerates, or something else, I don’t know. I love the idea of his consciousness being uploaded to the Library rather than the Matrix during regeneration. It’d be fitting seen as Capaldi’s Doctor is unquestionably her Doctor now.

    #52125
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @bluesqueakpip      I agree that the line when originally written did not yet have an explanation. I love yours! The Wedding of River Song seems to have derailed the assumption that I think most viewers made, that he would have told her his name as part of a marriage ceremony, and if you think about it, “There’s only one time that I could” seems to mean something stronger. Because his name is such an important secret, he would only share it with someone he loved and trusted beyond even the usual love and trust he has for his companions.

    And as for your timeline that ends in the middle, I can only think of this line: “Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.”    🙂

    #52129
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip @doctordani and @petri19

    I think you’re bloomin right Bluesqueak. The idea of him saying “oh, there’s only one time I could”.

    Could be read as “ONE time”. “one TIME” or “one time I (meaning emphasis on I) could”. Or other variations. It was deliberately simple  but we humans love a complication. To me it was “there was only one time I really could tell you my name which is when you’re absolutely my wife, you know, hun?”

    🙂

    So, no complication necessary because it’s sad enough. And beautiful enough.

    I can’t believe I’m discussing empharsis

    Puro

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