The Time of The Doctor

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This topic contains 528 replies, has 81 voices, and was last updated by  Kharis 6 years, 10 months ago.

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    kingofthemountain @kingofthemountain


    Also having him not die on Trenzalore but his tomb is moved there means he doesn’t have to worry about going to Trenzalore because he risks dying and also means we can’t know for sure that he will always survive dangerous situations provided he is not on Trenzalore AND NotD still happened this way

    Arbutus @arbutus

    @kingofthemountain     also given there were “all 13 of him” there does that mean tennant’s double somehow showed up as well?

    I had to do some counting to sort this in my mind, but don’t forget about the War Doctor. There were thirteen even without Tennant’s double. Capaldi is called 13 because the WD doesn’t get a number, but really he is 14 (or 2.1): 12 regenerations, 13 doctors.


    Brewski @brewski

    So my idea wasn’t that tM would have created Clara, but that it would have used her to help the doctor by giving her the doctors phone numbe (BoSJ).

    Hi @kingofthemountain.  I like the way you think!  Especially given that “great minds think alike” and all. 😉

    See my post #24571



    kingofthemountain @kingofthemountain


    of course you are right. After all the confusion regarding how to name each doctor now you would have thought I’d given it some thought before asking that. Seems such a silly question now.


    Thank you 🙂 did you pose something similar earlier?

    Anonymous @

    @brewski and @kingofthemountain   yes indeed. I remember Brewski you did – but  oi?? didn’t I help some? Just kidding, you’re the creative one (well, one amongst many here). Kindest, puro.  Not much time to go, shortly we’re half way there …..

    Brewski @brewski

    @purofilian sorry,  you did indeed contribute some great bonkers stuff to that.  I should know better than to use my smart phone to reply,  as I wind up abbreviating my thoughts to much.

    As for me, I’m really not creative in my own universe,  that’s why I’m grateful to participate in this one.

    @kingofthemountain not just me, but a pretty involved discussion about that very subject.  You should scroll back to that posting number (or just click on it) and follow the thread.  Lots of wonderful insane discussion there.

    The Master @themaster

    I have a question about the episode time of the doctor. In this episode near the end the doctor tells about how he can’t regenerate because he has used them all. But in the episode “The Impossible Astronaut” where the doctor was on the beach with Amy,Rory, and River Song and the doctor drank wine and they were talking about Jim the fish, The doctor walks up to the astronaut in the suit which turned out to be River Song and the suit that she was in shot him, and the eleventh doctor started regenerating. How is this possible if the eleventh doctor had no more regenerations?



    and the eleventh doctor started regenerating

    You need to pay attention to The Wedding of River Song. It is all explained in there.

    JC9807 @jc9807

    In rewatching this episode I thought wouldn’t it be interesting if “Handles” is actually Danny Pink…

    janetteB @janetteb

    @jc9807 Now there is a good bonkers theory. I will raise my metaphorical hat to you.



    Anonymous @

    @jc9807 @janetteb

    I agree JC9807, that’s a very good bonkers theory; I wondered if that had been posited at some point last year, but possibly not and you’re the first. Are you a new member? If so, welcome to you 🙂

    Kindest, puro

    Kharis @kharis

    Tasha Lem could very well be River, actually, I am almost positive that she is. The “rocking the new body” reference does not change that for me.  River and the Doctor meet out of order, as we know.   If it is a regeneration of River, then I would assume it took place after the little girl in spacesuit regeneration.  We never see her turn into Mels.  Honestly, it makes sense.  Mels grew up with Rory and Amy, so when did she train to kill the doctor?  Clearly by the time we see her in ‘Let’s Kill Hitler” she has been extensively trained for years.  When did this training take place?  My guess is before her time with Amy and Rory.

    If it’s River acting through the computer of the Library this could also make sense since River explained to Amy, she lies, has to lie, just like the Doctor.  She knows how to play it off, just remember when she first saw the Doctor in SitL she assumes they are playing the game of not knowing each other.  She plays it well until she realizes the Doctor truly doesn’t know her.

    Kharis @kharis

    @purofilion What do you think?

    Anonymous @

    @kharis I think she spoke of how the Dr was absent when she learnt how to fly the Tardis without the “who hoo” sounds that the Dr kindly imitates.

    So, yes, she’s taught this before Amy sees her and we also know that River climbed out of the crashed spaceship in Flesh and Stone and then immediately met Amy for a glass of wine in Amy’s yard where we believe the Dr is missing/AWOL/dead at Lake Silencio. So River meets Amy out of ‘time’ as well and knows she’s Amy’s daughter when they meet -boy, a confusing timey whimey stringful.

    As to Tasha Lem (a braid) as well as Lem=Mel backward: could well be….could well be….But it’s late now & I need to sleep on it. I think back to the Christmas ep (as Smith’s last)- there would be some decent commentary on that thread. Have you had a look there too?

    Kharis @kharis

    @purofilion Good point, the Doctor lies, and like River has pointed out, she also has to lie.  In ‘Let’s Kill Hitler’ she says the TARDiS taught her, and than turns around to the Doctor and claims in another episode that he taught her how to fly the TARDiS.   The lady lies a lot, and often.  Tasha Lem can fly the TARDiS but it does make the whooshing sound, which River knows how to turn off.  Also, if Tasha is just a projection of herself or flesh Avatar, then she was not actually killed by the Dalek.

    Anonymous @


    yes, actually, I’d forgotten about that -was Tasha ‘killed several’ times? I think the Dalek said this, speaking thru her or with her(??)  much like the Weeping Angels spoke thru Bob as Angel Bob in Flesh and Stone (Doctor Smith, Amy, River, the Bishop and his clerics).

    I wasn’t sure that River says the Doctor taught her to fly the Tardis -I believed (and I’m surely wrong about this because I often am!) that the “Doctor was busy that day.” But again, my memory aint what it once was.

    I wonder if the whole “Lem” issue (=Mel) was designed as a red herring with us all wondering about her “origin/provenance”. Lem was aware of the whole Kovarian faction which created the assassin and presumably blew up the Tardis as well as The Silence -the clever shrivers.


    Kharis @kharis

    @purofilion Excellent point.  It would be so “timey whimey” for Tasha to be River, who inspired the faction that blew up the TARDIS. Makes sense since River knew the Doctor was supposed to die at Tranzalore.  The whole papal mainframe could have been created to protect the Doctor from his scheduled death.  So very River.

    It was in the ‘Pandorica Opens’ where River claims the Doctor taught her to fly the TARDiS.  Once again, my paste option is faulty on this forum or I would paste it here.  It’s a very inconvenient fault with my interface on this site. :-\

    Anonymous @

    @kharis ah hah! Yes, indeed, The Pandorica Opens: I should have recalled this for I loved that 2 parter. I know many didn’t -not enough ‘monsters’, the speech where the Dr addresses the guys in their “noisy machines, spinning around. Hold still, it’s very distracting.” But I loved how he was able to smother their carry on knowing he was unarmed except for the sonic and yet they waited. Nervous. Concerned. A great scene for me. Also, the score was intense and beautiful. Particularly when he was dragged into the Pandorica: my boy and I cried, although he’s a tendency to say “nope, I didn’t. Not then, not evah”.



    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @kharis and @Purofilion

    Since when did pilots only have to have one flying instructor? 😉

    I’d agree there’s a bit of misdirection going on; if River says ‘The TARDIS taught me’, that’s a big fat dangerous ‘huh?’ because it’s extraordinary for the TARDIS to either pilot herself or tell someone else how to fly her.

    Not to mention the real-life reaction, which would have been: the Internet Explodz. 😈

    Whereas, if she tells the Doctor he taught her, she merely tells him something he’s (and we’ve) already guessed.

    Kharis @kharis

    @purofilion Yes! The music, the humor, the speech, the intensity of it all; it was truly epic.  Also love that episode.  I actually prefer less monsters and more storytelling, so this is in my top twenty episodes of DW.

    @bluesqueakpip Good point.  More than one teacher makes sense. I’m trying to picture how the TARDIS taught River?  By lighting up the right buttons like a kid’s teacher piano, or is it done on some telepathic level since River is also a child of the TARDIS?  The TARDIS told her that she is her child.  How?  How did the TARDIS tell her?  Sometimes I wonder just how long River was gone in ‘Let’s Kill Hitler’ in the TARDIS.  Hmmm.

    Anonymous @

    @kharis  @bluesqueakpip

    yes, you’re quite right. The Tardis teaching River? How exactly? Is it some timey wimin-ey  (no, I meant ‘wimin’, really!) intuitive thingamegig which suggests the Tardis ‘spoke’ to her -perhaps a type of “you’re sexy and I’m sexy; and you know He (the Doctor) thinks this about both of us”

    aaaand the Tardis was ‘made a sexy woman’ at one point in that splendid Gaiman episode.

    In the end, River lies too.

    It’s easier.

    Also, I would have murdered the one bloke who was my Ozzie driving instructor had it not been for the fact he was ill and so we swapped times and I found myself in a car with a totally calm, slender man who didn’t terrify me like the other guy did. If anyone knows Ascot and Clayfield in Brisbane, they’d know the area is filled with one-way streets, devilishly small avenues, nasty areas to practise parallel parking and much worse ….worse than the Weeping Angels…..cyclists in full ‘uniform’ taking over the small roads and shouting “make up your farrkin’ mind you loser woman driver.”

    I’m just sayin’. I could have been stuck in some Super Max for Ladeez making shivs out of soap….

    Better to have more than one instructor who doesn’t dare you to parallel park at 7 am in front of a boy’s private school when they’re jeering at you from the second floor.


    Not Incarcerated.

    Kharis @kharis

    @purofilion I was laughing so hard reading the above post I accidentally spit my tea.  Thank you for that.  🙂    Brisbane in Australia?  Cool.

    River has some explaining to do.  We have not seen the last of the child of the TARDIS.

    Anonymous @


    well, if I’ve made you happy then my work here is done! I hope the keyboard has survived the tea?

    Brisbane in Winter is indeed ‘cool’. Tonight, is something called The State of Origin Decider. It’s football -actual ‘footy’ whereby nutty footballers the size of Tardises (Tardi?) tackle a pineapple-shaped ball and get into ‘formation’ -basically no brain involved (it’s not strategic ; like Deep Breath, these guys have brains the size of large dinos) – and  bust each other about to get a  ‘try.’ Apparently, it’s a decider as the first match was won by Sydney, the 2nd by Brisbane (it’s been going on for years but doesn’t have the class of The Ashes) altho I might have mucked up even that information about which state won.

    I generally listen to music or watch on-line telly as the houses nearby rumble with the sounds of blokes going “aw, you jerk, you knob, make a try, go awn, go awn.”

    Awful! Beers are had, fish’n’chips or pizza is delivered -they even have a meat lover’s in celebration of the “maroons vs the blues.”

    Great night to go out, though! The streets are empty.

    Now, eerm, back to topic before the Topic Daleks remove me off this thread. I wonder about River -I like her, I do. Never more so than the ep The Silence in the Library but I’ve always had a problem with The Time of The Doctor -my own problem. I’ve read the threads, I’ve even pencilled in timey whimey ‘sums’ but never achieved anything except more confusion!

    @bluesqueakpip has written a couple of excellent Blogs (on all sorts of things, actually, one being the Deus ex Machina in Who) on the timey whimey concepts in Who: if you have time, have a look thru the Blogs here. They’re brilliant. It was really only when I read them that I understood a little better the time issues in tTofD, for example, as well as The Day of the Doctor.

    Kharis @kharis

    @Purofilion Good thing I read the above without my tea this time.  You are hysterical!  I seriously had to go outside as to not wake everyone up with my laughing.

    I’ve worked out the whole River Song timeline, well, at least if my theories are correct. She gave it away when she said she was mentally linked with Clara.

    I will have to go check out @bluesqueakpip ‘s blogs, they sound interesting.  I’m starting to see a clear pathway towards River coming back.



    Kharis @kharis

    Like I said all, not River’s doctor, not a known screwdriver, certainly not the 11th doctor’s sonic.  So far my theories on River, Pompeii are all being hinted at being correct.  So my theories on Clara are more than likely also going to come to pass.  I’m so excited for this season!  🙂

    Anonymous @


    on Pompeii? How so? I need my memory attachment rewired.

    Well done then! Not a theory of mine has ever come close, but I shall still putter on 🙂

    Kharis @kharis

    Ha ha! @purofilion Yes, my theories that the whole point is that The Doctor needs to “save someone” from Gallifrey.

    Kharis @kharis

    Okay, I need Clara Clarification.  I understand popping up all over the Doctor’s time stream, but what I don’t get is how does she come into being as a “Claricle” because being born seems complicated.  How is she born to parents who do not share her DNA? Seems like I am missing something.  Any thoughts?

    Kharis @kharis

    …and if all of the Claricles were born like a regular person, does that mean she was born to Gallifreyan parents at one point?  Or was Clara just randomly in the Tardis repair shop by time travel?  Did she get there by another TARDIS and that’s why she knows which TARDIS is a good choice?



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