The Tomb of the Cybermen part 2
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This topic contains 9 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by DrunkSontaran 8 years, 2 months ago.
19 October 2013 at 09:51 #18748Craig @craigEmperor
With two men dead, most of the archaeological expedition intend to leave but with their ship seemingly sabotaged they are forced to stay in the tomb and finally manage to access the lower chambers.19 October 2013 at 15:55 #18768Anonymous @
Obviously, there’s lots to comment on here. But having just watched the credits, I noticed that Charles Pemberton was one of the Cybermen – and Victor Pemberton was the Story Editor (the BBC do like to keep it in the family 🙂 ). Any relation to Steve Pemberton of League of Gentlemen fame, though, I wonder?
Also, after watching all 6 episodes of Enemy of the World, and now 2 parts of this story, the Troughton-era opening and closing credits / music are really growing on me. In fact, the more BG episodes I watch, the more bombastic and over-done I think the AG credits/music are. Sure, they’re all a product of their own time, but the ethereal, strangely hypnotic music / graphics here seems so much more a propos for Doctor Who.
Victoria, you silly goose, picking up the Cybermat – but it saved you in the end, didn’t it. And you got to fire a gun and kill it! You’re already not as ‘fainting’ as you were in Part 1. Good girl.
Is it me, or does the Captain sound like a Canadian, trying to sound like an American?
I’ll miss Viner now he’s dead. He sort of seemed a proxy for the audience, getting ever more hysterical over their situation as surely most of us would (and just as surely as most of us would hope we wouldn’t 🙂 ).19 October 2013 at 17:29 #18771ScaryB @scaryb
Re actors – I think it probably still goes on – you know, they need someone for a walk on/background/extra part, you ask if anyone knows someone.
Re the theme tune – this is absolutely, hands down, brook-no-arguments THE definitive theme/credits for me. NOTHING else comes close to making my spine tingle with quite the same anticipation (tho I quite like Pertwee’s in colour (didn’t see those till years later, only having a b/w telly at the time). Glad you like it.
Victoria’s OK! This was her first journey in the TARDIS after her intro when the Daleks killed her father, so she’s a Victorian girl and she’s still grieving. But she showed a bit of spine when she shrugged off Kaftan’s creepy inistance on helping her last week. And when Jamie’s first reaction is to get the hell out of there (he’s not a coward, just sensible!) it’s Victoria who says she’ll stay.
Is it me, or does the Captain sound like a Canadian, trying to sound like an American?
Apparently he was born in Austria 🙂 So either it’s a very very subtle characterisation… or he went to the same accent school as Jamie (the same one attended by James Doohan (Scotty from ST))
I love the subtlety of Troughton’s acting. Eg his change in tone and the timing when he turns to say “no not you Jamie” (after his “anyone who wants to leave speech…”) (Think how else those lines could have been said). The very deft hidden pressing of the key button when Kleig is trying to work out the sequence. You can see the direct line from Hartnell’s Doctor (in The Petrified Forest (2nd ever story)) when he pretends the fluid link is broken just so he can be nosey. That dangerous/reckless curiosity (admittedly very useful as a plot driver) that you still see strongly in the AG Doctors. This Doctor is just as curious about the tomb as the expedition party, to the point that he doesn’t mind putting everyone in danger by giving little hints to Kleig and co (from the opening of the front door last week) to help them along, so he can see what happens. Watch him do his little dance of joy, clapping his hands when Kleig gets the hatch open.
Things I liked –
60s tropes – Kaftan is a classic Bond/Man From Uncle/Avengers type female baddie; clunky looking levers that simply must be pulled/pushed despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about what they might do, and the last attempt at getting things working resulted in someone getting blasted; probably the least careful archeological expedition team you could imagine (up there with the lot on the recent (flawed by awesome) film Prometheus)
Love how it riffs on the whole cursed, boobytrapped Egyptian tomb thing (Tutenkhamun enjoyed a bit of a comeback in the 60s (so to speak))
Toberman’s little smirk in the background when the Captain says “or someTHING” (5.47) is neat
You may laugh at the tech effects but that little cybermat had me checking under my bed for months after (I think I spent most of this episode shouting “Noooo – don’t do that!” at the TV (from behind the sofa of course!) when I watched originally).
And with the original scene that Neil Gaiman paid tribute to in NiS as the cybermen wake up – what’s not to like? 😀19 October 2013 at 18:38 #18773Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
@Shazzbot – yes, it’s amazing the number of actors who’ve been cast on the grounds of ‘Charles can do that!’. The Captain isn’t Canadian; though looking at George Roubicek’s date of birth he may well have been a pre-WW2 refugee.
Knowing the then-BBC tendency to file actors under generic ‘foreign’, somebody probably thought his ability to do a good Austrian and German accent meant he could do any non-British accent. 🙂
I do like the current opening music; but I agree that the original electronic score deserves its ‘Classic’ status. It’s just that you have to think about how it would sound to the current crop of Very Short Viewers; the ones who’ve heard electronic music since they were in Mummy’s womb and are used to an entire bank of synthesisers. In days when you can knock out some decent sound effects on your iPad, I think Murray Gold was right that really impressive for the little ones has now gone full circle – back to an orchestra.
It’s definitely riffing on the doomed ‘curse of the mummy’s tomb’ sort of thing, isn’t it? Complete with sinister Egyptians, a black servant, and a woman named after a dress. Though, to be fair, I believe ‘Kaftan’ is a surname. 😉
Those modern cybermats from Nightmare in Silver are really beautiful. One of the things about this rewatch is that you can see how Gaiman both riffed off and developed his Cybermen from ‘Tomb’.19 October 2013 at 20:52 #18780stevethewhistle @steve-thorp
I don’t believe it! I actually got it right about the upstairs cyberman not being real.
Re: Fraser Hines
He was born in Horsforth, near Leeds, and going by his given name, may be of Scottish descent.
There are quite a lot of people around Leeds and the Yorkshire coalfields who have Scottish links (including my own (extended) family (by marriage). There is even a City of Leeds Pipeband.
When I was in the Scouts, I was taught how to play a side drum by a member of this band.
His Scottish accent doesn’t seem very different from that of some of the Scots that I know in Leeds, although one of them, who has lived in Leeds for some considerable time, occasionally comes out with phrases in broad Yorkshire!
One of my father’s uncles had a very strong, and possibly false (or stage), Scots accent and used to regularly wear a kilt, sporran and skean-dhu, as did his sons.
Anyway, Jamie would have been a Gaelic speaker from Skye, and, when speaking English, may have had an accent nearer to that of the west coast o9f Ireland. If he had been speaking with a modern Glasgow accent, I reckon that it would be worse than the accent that he used in DW. He is not playing a Ralph C Nesbitt clone! 😀20 October 2013 at 13:16 #18812PhaseShift @phaseshiftTime Lord
That dangerous/reckless curiosity (admittedly very useful as a plot driver) that you still see strongly in the AG Doctors. This Doctor is just as curious about the tomb as the expedition party, to the point that he doesn’t mind putting everyone in danger by giving little hints to Kleig and co (from the opening of the front door last week) to help them along, so he can see what happens.
Absolutely – I’ve always thought the Doctors many flaws (which he’s had from day one) are the things that keep him firmly out of the “wholesome role-model” category of fairly boring heroes, and contributed to his longevity. Last week we had him having to demonstrate how clever he is, and in this, as you say, you get the distinct feeling he’s helping them along for his own reasons – mainly because of his insatiable curiosity.
I love the slow almost remorseless rise of the Cybermen in this – climbing down that ladder must have been bloody precarious in those suits. The silence as they don’t stomp or say anything just contributes to the air of menace.
Just on accents though (and the Captains in particular) – I have to confess that I can watch American TV of the period and the accent’s really don’t sound like US accents today. I’m not sure if it’s because of the sound recording methods, or just a kind of affectation that early TV had (almost a “stagey” feel) that contributes to this. It therefore doesn’t really bother me.20 October 2013 at 13:44 #18825ScaryB @scaryb
By “helping” unobtrusively I presume the Doctor (in his head) is still being “just an observer” – in true Time Lord tradition 🙂
The slow reveal of the cybermen – agreed, and it’s nearly the end of episode 2 (good call by @steve-thorp on last week’s cliffhanger) before we see them moving for real. (@Phaseshift Not only climbing down the ladders, but being fairly synchronised about it too. None of yer CGI here 😉 )
And I really don’t have a problem with accents being “off” – Jamie’s is from no place in Scotland that I’ve ever come across, but it’s just Jamie’s accent 🙂 (See also @bluesqueakpip‘s similar comment aboout Clara’s accent in 7.2 threads). Interesting comment from Phaseshift re 50s/60s American TV sounding “different” now – similarly with the BBC – if you listen to any of the continuity or news announcers from the 50s, it’s enough to make you ROFL at the “cut-glass” tones. What I hate about accents in shows is where trying to “get” the accent is given priority over acting the character. If the acting’s right, the accent doesn’t matter.24 November 2014 at 23:25 #35847SDL @gray
The cliffhanger at the end of this episode will always be one of my all-time favourites. Halfway through the story and you know that this is the real deal. That voice combined with the impassive, solid design of the face, with its eye-grilles and mouth slot replacing the moving features of a human face. Truly the most chilling Cybermen – I was well scared of these guys when young for a good reason. These Cybermen and their Tenth Planet brothers are the creepiest form of the baddies.
Classic story. Can’t imagine how happy some fans were when this was recovered as a whole story.1 January 2015 at 21:22 #36804Cyberlord @cyberlord
CYBER-REPORT: I own the entire episode (all parts) on a DVD disk- I think the music that plays during the end scene of this part should be remade in a new series- it’s superbly chilling. And of course, the voice of the Cyber-Controller!
YeeEew bEee-loowng to UZZZ
YeeEew shall bEee LIIKE UZZZ10 January 2015 at 16:20 #37207DrunkSontaran @drunksontaran
I think “Tomb..” should be re-made (not saying that it’s awful, it is great, one of my favorites from Throughton Era) , with the current Doctor (My interest is that, how the episode should be with all those CGI and special effects). It’s hell of a story. Just watched it for the 4th time, and still gives me the chills, especially that part when the Cybermen break out from their tombs, the music is superb.
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