@BFINCH

My complaint is that whenever she was asked if the Doctor was to return to help or was a good man, she was indecisive.

No, she is precise – she eschews the glib and tries to give a meaningful answer. And that is why he is so ready to forgive her total betrayal.

Hi @BFINCH – just wanted to say that I have some sympathies with what you’re saying.
That basically Clara and 11 had a flirtatious relationship (at times) but that 12 put an end to that (indeed he realised that it was time to stop that).
So – Clara will feel put out. She may even feel ‘betrayed’ to some extent (in a ‘where is my best mate that I…[Read more]

@purofilion @BFINCH Love the debate, you both make good points. Just wanted to point out one thing. 12 also changed the parameters of his relationship with Clara. Whereas we see 11 perfectly willing to pose as her boyfriend to her family at Christmas, 12 soon tells her “I’m not your boyfriend”. So from the Doctor’s perspective what changed? We…[Read more]

@BFinch

But you have suggested that others, on these boards, have somehow romanticised the Doctor. And then you post

I view the Doctor as a good man for all the times he has saved the universe. He has sacrificed his own life multiple times to save his companions.

and then

5 sacrificed himself to save Perri and 9 saved Rose.

I can’t help…[Read more]

@Bfinch    I should add, I’m not approving of what she did. I think her desperation comes from her own sense of guilt. I didn’t care for her treatment of Danny throughout the series, or her lies to both him and the Doctor. I enjoy Clara as a character because she is interesting and real, and her motivations can be understood if not approved. If I…[Read more]

@Bfinch     Your paraphrase is slight, but it makes all the difference to how I would read the Doctor’s words. He said: “Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?” He says, in essence, “Do you really not know how much I care? I care so much that I can understand and forgive.” His statement isn’t about what…[Read more]

@bfinch I agree that Clara has the most realistic relationship with 12 that probably has ever been portrayed in a Doctor companion relationship but that doesn’t mean I have to like or support that character.

One doesn’t have to like or support a character to find them highly entertaining to watch, that is true as well. What tends to sustain my i…[Read more]

@BFinch

He is still a good man, if asked for a minute about Matt Smith’s Doctor being a good man she would say yes.

No – that’s your own projection I think. You want the perfect hero. Clara knows he isn’t perfect. Always has. As to eleven, in his own words:

Madame Kovarian: The anger of a good man is not a problem. Good men have too many r…[Read more]

@Nerys @JanetteB

A few people have wondered if all the people who died in this episode were uploaded to Missy’s Heaven. The implication is that they would be. Or maybe the automatic process stopped once all the minds were downloaded.

I thought that people who were cremated still had their minds uploaded, but that it would be problematic for them…[Read more]

@BFINCH

She would always sat she doesn’t know or flat out dismissal

So not actually badmouthing then

And at the end of Deep Breath her answer was (paraphrasing) “I don’t know… but you try to be”. This sometime after she had displayed absolutely faith that he would be behind her.

She speaks to him as only a friend can – candidly and without awe.

@BFINCH

When did she bad mouth him?

@bfinch Welcome – you’ll find this site an enjoyable place to while away your time before the xmas special.

It’s a shame that you find Clara shallow – I’ve found her much more enjoyable as time has gone on. Her appearance as the soufflé-girl Claricle in Asylum of the Daleks I found very smug and irritating, but as ClaraPrime she has grown a lot…[Read more]