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@IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan

Quote was Shazzbot’s, not mine.

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So here are my thoughts on this episode (finally!).

The Great Intelligence is actually the Doctor’s dark thoughts made real and separate from himself by some accident.  A Dark Guardian Angel, or his Devil Within, as it were.  The Great Intelligence seems to have only one, sole aim – to destroy the Doctor and everything that he stands for, and it gets stronger and stronger until the moments of the Doctor’s death on Tenzalore, where it enters the final battle – not with the Doctor, but with the Doctor’s Light Guardian Angel, his Concience, all the good things that the Doctor is – the one who was “born to save the Doctor”.  And how is that possible, unless that is also distilled into one being?

Clara.  The battle is made real at the moments of his death, and then is shown inside his entire timestream, right from the start of the stories, where he chooses which Tardis to take on his journeys.  They have always been there as part of who he is, it’s just somehow they became outside of him at some stage in his life, after some crazy traumatic event.  The Great Intelligence and Clara both are aspects of the Doctor, opposites, mirrors.  Notice how the Doctor’s timestream turns red when the GI enters it?  Perhaps Clara’s real colour is blue, it just gets shadowed red when the GI is also around!

Now.  We know that Matt Smith is the last Doctor, because this is his grave at Trenzalore.  It is his Tardis that is his monument, inside and out, with the cracks in the window and the internal decor.  We know that every Doctor changes the interior to suit himself, this is definitely Smith’s Tardis.

And we know that the Doctor has twelve lifetimes, so it becomes clear that one is missing, unless he dies early for some unknown reason on the battleground at Trenzalore.  BUT, if he dies early, why is there a Twelfth Doctor in his timestream?  That cannot be possible.

Therefore, the HurtDoctor is a previous incarnation, most likely between 8 and 9, and he was the one who did the horrors of the TimeWars, but not in The Name of The Doctor.

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@Shazzbot

I tend to disagree a bit.

It’s not a ‘closed loop’.  It’s a massive change, because it includes Fragmented Clara, and assumes Sexy (who already told us that she chose her Doctor) is controlling Clara to ensure Clara entices Hartnell to the ‘correct’ Tardis.

Maybe it always did include Clara, but we didn’t know.  It always included the GI too.  GI knew which one was the right Tardis, therefore he misdirected the Doctor to the wrong one, Clara (who we know has had contact with her) redirects him back.  This always happened, but we didn’t know about it.

Question is not, is the Tardis controlling Clara, but how did the GI know which was the right/wrong Tardis to choose in the first place?

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@davemorris316

What if the thing he has done is not the Time War. Worse than that, he has at some point made the decision to make himself immortal?

The old limit of 12 regenerations has been shown to no longer exist (there’s an article on The G which refers to this), but what if he had to kill to do this?

Worse than the time war, he has stolen all the regenerative power of his fellow timelords to make himself immortal?

Bad, Bad Doctor

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Tho to be fair, The Emperor might not have known about that.  But The Doctor did, he was there!  Why couldn’t The Doctor defeat his cyberisation process using love?  Can’t he love enough?    He didn’t even seem to try it out!

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The Emperor dun it all wrong then.  Instead of destroying whole galaxies, all he needed to do was tell his people to think about the thing they love the most.

Job done!

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I just want to show off my new avatar.

This monster was scary but wasn’t a monster at all!

Hidden Monster theme.

Is Clara a Hidden Monster?

Dun Dun DUUUN

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Watching this a second time, as with many Matt Smith’s episodes it’s actually better the second time around.

I love the dark Doctor, Matt’s very good at menacing.

I’m a bit clueless about where the story arc is going, it should be a good ending though I agree with @bobbingbird ‘s assessment about the stories being apparently filler episodes.  I thought at the end of Crimson Horror the Doctor had an idea of who Clara was, but at the end of this episode he seemed a totally clueless.  Clara increasingly behaves as if she is much older than she actually is, which takes me back to my theory that the GI downloaded more than just Clara back into her mind when she suddenly gained those remarkable computer skills.  Scattering clones of her through time to spark the Doctor’s interest and his guilt.

Wait and see..

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Ooookaay just saw that.  A mighty fine romp with enormous plot holes.  Thought Matt Smith was quite extraordinary, except for that weird sentence at the end.  WTF was that about?  Clara was an instant general, didn’t quite make sense to me.  Her whole character is becoming frustrating, I sincerely hope she’s a construct and not an actual person, otherwise I shall be quite disappointed.

I just don’t understand why the kids were brought on board, in any way shape or form.  Even to enhance the plot – I assume the writers thought that governess to general isn’t that big a step for a young girl to envisage, and quite how the children being there impacted the chess game was confusing, was it just to prove the Doctor cares and the cyberman were confused by what he was trying to achieve?  It seems a bit unnecessary to me.

The cybermen were too unbelievable, why did that first one move so quickly and the others didn’t have that speed upgrade?  The partial upgrades of the children etc. stalling was a bit odd. The cybermites were good, much better than the cybermats.

Will have to watch again tomorrow, didn’t really work for me apart from Matt Smith’s acting.  Very, very good.  I also thought Warwick Davis was a nice touch, and a great twist on who he was.  He pulled that off very well, and added some much-needed gravitas to all the musical racket and screams that kind of detracted from the scariness.

Don’t they know that Silence is much more frightening than Din?

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@Shazzbot

Clara is an enigma, for sure.  She is very self-assured and comfortable in her environment, despite it being so weird – and unlike most companions who almost invariably suffer some form of culture shock.  She seems to have a unique ability to see into a situation (even without prior experience of these situations) and find the solution (is the Doctor deliberately pretending not to be able to fix things to test Clara’s ability to do so? – that would seem in character for him, and explain his erratic behaviour).

But the Twelfth?  No.  She just isn’t the right character.

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I have always thought the Tweflth Doctor should be female.  I shall be very disappointed if the show producers can’t find a way of making that happen, indeed insisting on it!

Clara, however, isn’t the Tweflth Doctor.  As @jimthefish says, she doesn’t have the gravitas.  Unless, she does, and we haven’t seen it yet because she is acting NOT being The Doctor.  However, it doesn’t explain why she is scattered through time as a human with identical DNA.  I thought for a while River Song might be the Twelfth, despite the crossing timelines, and I think she would have pulled it off magnificently, but sadly not.  I would have loved her as the Twelfth, she is quite brilliant, slightly psychotic, erratic, incredibly self-assured, mysterious, and oddly compelling – just as the Doctor himself is.

@whisht

Yes, the Doctor isn’t particularly male, I quite agree with that.  He’s not really camp either, I think it’s more that his mind is in control and there is so much in it thoughts of gender don’t really figure.  I suspect he chooses a male form because it’s what he started with and throughout most of (Earth) history he wouldn’t have the opportunities to behave as he does while a female.

Nowadays, though, things have changed here on planet Earth and it would be almost criminal NOT to portray the Doctor as female.  I suspect the Doctor himself might like the change, after being the avenging god and so traumatised by the death of his home planet by his own hands something like this would help him start afresh.  It also allows a lengthy final series, with opportunities for wonderful events like having children, which would allow the series to run on forever.  The Doctor as a male will never have more children; as female she might well change her mind.

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Plots within plots.  In the Crimson Horror everyone asks about Clara, and initially the Doctor refuses to discuss, perhaps he doesn’t know yet, or doesn’t want to say?  But at the end, it appears as if he has finally figured it out.  Indeed, after he is released from his imprisonment, he refuses to believe Clara might be dead, and goes hunting for her as if he knew she would survive the toxin.  Sure enough, she did, but how could he be so sure unless he knew she had something important to do (and therefore most likely, what it is!) which means that she wouldn’t – couldn’t – die -yet!?

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@bluesqueakpip

Indeed you’re right, Clara looks like she is being guided by the Tardis.  But why?  Does the Tardis realise Clara is an innocent trap, but with free will to change the course of events if she sees the Doctor as he really is?  Was the entire event engineered by the Tardis to allow this to happen?

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Clara could be a trap, programmed by the GI when she partially uploaded and then downloaded with new abilities / memories.  Perhaps she isn’t aware of them (hidden triggers).  I think the GI also took her DNA and cloned her into the Doctors past so that he would be sure to try and hunt her down (the impossible girl that must never die at his hands again!).

It is interesting that the Tardis allowed Clara to explore her in Journey, when she has and uses the ability to create a labyrinth around the Doctor and the brothers to prevent them from going where they wanted to, yet markedly failed to do so with Clara.

ST:NG = Star Trek:Next Generation and Borg – evil cyborg monsters a bit like Cybermen but with more human/alien parts than metal

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Clara is innocent, that doesn’t mean she can’t be part of a carefully laid out plot. Many of the Doctor’s companions have been used to try and persuade him to do awful things; “we will kill Clara (again) and it will be your fault unless..” – she could be the key to opening the Timelock.

I think there’s a bit more here than is obvious, that brilliant sequence where The Doctor and Clara go visiting, all the photographs taken, then the photographs appearing on the kids computer.. someone has been stalking Clara and the Doctor and have laid an insidious plot. Probably see it hatch in next weeks episode, though I’m not sure I will enjoy it with the two kids on board, unless they are part OF the plot.  Evil children, anyone?

I liked this story, there was brilliant acting, directing, photography, plot, but the best thing of all were the costumes. The stories are getting better and better in this series, I hope the last two don’t fall down..

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@juniperfish

Welcome! Most of us watch the episodes a second time for fun clue-hunting here too.

Thanks!  In the early days of the internet I used to hunt down fan-written stories, some of which were pretty interesting and very well thought out. Some of my vague history of Who probably comes from them.

I like your thought that Clara is a trap but an innocent trap.

Yes, but it’s a bit boring.  I prefer to think of her as someone a bit more special, linked to Susan in some way.  I was just trying to tie the story together in a way that wasn’t too speculative, but I don’t really like it. Doesn’t have enough punch for a 50th anniversary special.

I’ve thought for a long time that the Doctor’s name is the key to the Time Lock. The only thing is, that if the Doctor’s name is the answer to the “question” which must never be asked at Trenzalor, it would seem the Silence are keen to prevent the opening of the time lock…

Ah, holes in my plot.  So the Silence may actually be a different player to the Daleks. I like the idea that the Doctor’s name is the key to the Timelock, it makes sense as to why it must never be spoken.

The anti-Silence eye-patches did have a bit of a dalek-tech look to them…

Future tech, I guess.

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ps found this forum through someone’s post at the graun.  I haven’t lurked there for a while owing to the nesting problem (ciffix for firefox and chrome can help a bit, but is problematic in itself), but found the Who blog interesting, as I’m a bit of a nut since a kid.  I didn’t have tv then but I read a heap of books, and was stoked when the beeb started up Who again.  Really liked it up until Matt Smith, but now I’m wondering whether it was the Amy/Rory combo I detested most.  I’m certainly loving the second part of this series.  I don’t know if this is the place to post this but I don’t have masses of time to read all the threads, will jump on to The Crimson Horror as soon as it shows here in Aus (only a few hours to go..)

I have watched all the episodes 3 or 4 times consecutively up until Smith, but Journey I have watched 4 times already.  It’s a great episode, and all the speculation here made me go back and watch it.  Again.  and Again.  and Again.  It also makes me want to go back and check out the overall possible story arc, as I couldn’t really figure it out, and would like to check out everyone’s observations to see if I can make more sense of it.  Oh well, on to The Crimson Horror I suppose…

 

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So here’s the story so far.

Clara turns up in The Bells of St. John, after The Doctor has been hunting fruitlessly for her.

She is the “real” Clara whose password is merely incidental to the whole story, in that to us it appears significant now but it actually just is a password to her then, but made into a trap later by making previous Doctors believe it is important.  In fact, Clara was picked only because her password would appear significant to The Doctor in her future / his past meetings.

Then the Great Intelligence partially uploads her, and when she gets downloaded back she is something quite different, though apparently the same.  Her memories have been altered (as proved by now being a computer whizz) but what else has changed that we don’t know about?  Have other memories, information, triggers been inserted into her mind?  At this point the GI also samples her DNA (not shown) to make clones of her in the “future” for “previous” encounters.  The GI is linked to the Daleks here by being aware of time travel and the ability to manipulate it, and by the earlier episode.  It is also a clever sub-plot to avoid Daleks for a while as they appear to have been overdone in previous nu-Doctor episodes.  Oddly, Clara seems to retain these abilities after the GI is vanquished, even though all the other apparent victims do not, which makes me believe that luring The Doctor to Clara is the primary objective of the entire operation. However, his luring to Clara is triggered by a random diverted phone call to The Tardis but who has The Doctor’s number who would do this?  The Master?

In The Journey, the Tardis knows Clara from the past, but seems now very suspicious.  What is it about the “original” Clara that is so wrong the Tardis won’t let her fly her?  Or is it more that she knows Clara is an innocent that will somehow lead The Doctor into a trap, because there is otherwise no explanation of her appearing in several different timelines?  However, this doesn’t quite make sense because, as seen below, she allows Clara to enter the Library and see things she otherwise wouldn’t.

When Clara explores the Tardis she sees things that begin to make sense to her regarding The Doctor.  Hence the “clues” in the Library and so on.  I suspect that the Tardis, knowing that Clara is an innocent trap, intentionally shows her things to help point her in the right direction when the trap is finally triggered.  Remember, the Tardis is doing this deliberately, she has the power to change her internal landscape to create an inescapable labyrinth, just as she did with The Doctor and the three brothers.  Her showing Clara these things is quite deliberate, whereas The Doctor appears to be trying to prevent her from doing so – in Zombie form.

Does the Tardis make the crisis deliberately by creating a scenario – The Tardis won’t allow Clara to fly so The Doctor is persuaded  to remove the shields so that the magno-grab can create a massive diversion so that Clara can explore uninhibited while The Doctor is projected outside The Tardis to get the Big Friendly Button that will save the day?  I have to say the exploding Tardis’s must be linked, and I think the Tardis, having exploded in another part of time is aware of what caused her to explode (the opening of the Timelock) and is using Clara to take steps to avoid it happening.

Again this is a backwards story, the Great Intelligence is seen next in Snowmen where Clara again appears, this time apparently not knowing The Doctor again, but able to interact with him very well.  Perhaps she is simply a clone this time, designed merely to die to make The Doctor’s guilt trip him into depression and manic care for her as shown in BoSJ.  The trap by the GI is rather too easy for The Doctor to solve and fix, but certainly seems designed to destabilise him further.

Finally, in the first episode as a Dalek/Human hybrid, she lures him into another trap, and he is led to believe that The Daleks have forgotten all about him while at the same time dieing.  She makes a huge impact on him, and his guilt at losing yet more innocents to his meddling is triggered severely.

So, in the Final Episode, Clara will lead him into culmination of the plot in which the Daleks and the Great Intelligence (in alliance with, or built by, the Daleks – who were a creation of Omega, and associated with the Silence – who are slaves of the Daleks, as can be explained by never being seen in conflict with them) unhatches a fiendishly clever plot to trap The Doctor and his companions and force them to break the Time Lock by using Clara (who must never die again!) to force River Song to reveal The Doctor’s Real Name, which, of course, is never revealed to us.  Omega is thus able to be released from his prison to wreak his wrath on the universe.

Or not.  Because Clara, in order for her to be able to trick The Doctor, must actually BE innocent, which means that she can actually work as an independent spirit in the end and could save the day, helped by the Tardis and perhaps Rose, who is also linked to the Tardis in intimate ways.  Whether she survives this or or not, is an interesting question.  My thought is that she does, which allows The Doctor to begin to heal.  It is possible that the release of the Time Lock must somehow release Rose from her prison so she can help The Tardis save Clara and thus The Doctor to save The Universe and heal him once again!

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