S33 (7) 13 – Nightmare in Silver

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  • #8683
    janetteB @janetteb

    “NObody dies” is from The Doctor Dances, Series 1 of nuwho. Interestingly in “The Empty Child” he remarks that in 900 years he had yet to travel with someone who stays put when told to. (Re watched it last night.) IT seems as though Clara is the companion he had always wanted, his ideal companion, as though he has created her.

    Have yet to watch NiS so I can’t comment until later tonight or tomorrow but I was really suprised by the vitriol being unleashed on the Guardian blog. One begins to wonder if some of the bloggers are in the employ of DAvros or Madame Kovarian.  (I know I’m cheating reading comments before watching but I had a feeling that being the penultimate episode this one would be arc light.)

    Cheers

    Janette

    #8684
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @janetteb. True, and, of course, “Nobody dies” is also from “Forests of the Dead”. Just re-watched the River-in-the-Library two-parter. CAL…CLARA. I know many people have already talked about this, but that was back when Clara was introduced in “Asylum”. Re-watching River’s entrance (and exit) again, where the whole issue of the Doctor’s name was introduced, makes me wonder if there really might be a CAL/CLARA connection.

    #8685
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @everyone – no, I’m thinking about the tight skirt reference right at the end; which didn’t come across as ‘fatherly’ to me at all. 😀

    We have actually been talking about these theories already, but the two time-bombs planted in this episode are:

    1. The Doctor is definitely not immune to being taken over. He can fight back, but it’s possible for someone else to take over his body.

    2. Any mechanical ‘infection’ can be burned out – destroyed – by regeneration energies. BUT, the Doctor has to choose to regenerate, since it won’t be rated as ‘dying’. Time Lords don’t regenerate for the equivalent of a cold; River screamed at the Doctor for wasting his energies on her broken wrist.

    This leads me back to the bonkers theory that he’s being either dalekised – OR, the GI is in cahoots with the Daleks. The Daleks want a Time Lord. They now don’t know who ‘The Doctor’ is – but did they forget the Time Lords? If they didn’t, they’ll still want the Doctor. But as ‘that Time Lord who knows how to open the Time Lock’. The GI will want to finish what it started in the Troughton era, and take over the Doctor’s body. Not just any old body, a regenerating, practically immortal body.

    The Doctor will get infected and will be too reluctant to regenerate; he’ll misjudge the timing of the suicide button (we saw in this episode that he CAN push the suicide button) and will be taken over. This means that – basically – for the first time ever, the fight will be to force the Doctor to regenerate.

    And Clara. I still think she could be (all together now!) the Twelfth. And she could also be a trap, programmed to mirror the Doctor. We just saw the Doctor nearly get taken over; so a very young, very human incarnation of the Doctor could certainly be reprogrammed. Probably it happened during her second upload in the Bells of St John; the GI recognised that she was someone the Doctor was interested in and programmed her as a trap. He’s also a chess-player – he was willing to sacrifice his Queen (Miss Kizlet) to win the game.

    But the advantage of being a trap is that it keeps you alive until the damn thing is sprung. It’s a game of chess; the future Doctor will be willing to sacrifice Eleven if – well, we don’t know. Perhaps if it means he can save the children? His people’s children?

    That’d be worth dying for.

    #8686
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip – that’s a wonderful point that you make about the GI recognising Clara’s usefulness as a conduit to the Doctor in her 2nd upload, and how it sacrificed its own ‘queen’ , in TBoSJ.  Now that we know TLs invented chess, it’s quite likely that chess-like strategies will underpin TNotD.

    I’m still stuck on the jarring statement ‘that’s just basic storytelling’ in JttCofT.  I thought the Doctor’s admonition to the Maitland children in NiS was a bit heavy-handed: ‘Don’t wander off, or next thing you know, someone will have to be rescued.’  It broadcast exactly what was going to happen in this episode – another way (in my view) of emphasising the story-telling aspect of things.  But who is telling the story – the Doctor?  The GI?

    #8687
    Anonymous @

    Just a totally bonkers thought:  When the Doctor said ‘her skirts are too … tight’ my immediate thought was not  ‘ooh, that’s a bit pervy’;  it was instead  ‘is she pregnant?’  Of course not, Clara’s not had any background information of previous boyfriends, and it was anyway most likely a residue of being partially upgraded and the Cyber Planner’s tendency to salaciously leer.

    Someone previously said that the Cyber mind, unused to emotions after having ‘upgraded’ people out of having them, completely misunderstood the Doctor’s fascination with Clara.  I agree with this stance.  But the worry is that the Doctor’s partial upgrade appears to have left a film over his thoughts.  What else has it changed about him?

    #8688
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    Oh, and another lovely little chess analogy that just occurred to me:

    What happens to a pawn when it gets to the eight rank (end of the chessboard)?

    It gets promoted. It becomes a Queen. It is possible, in chess, for one side to have two or more Queens on the board – if one starts out as a pawn.

    #8689
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @scaryb @lula I totally agree with both of you! Stunning, and being fanatastically waved throughout the series! (Though a lot you can only appreciate in retrospect (TATM- TPOT) Happy US Mothers day!

    @thedoctordude I think you refer to SITL. River Song says something simillar there

     

    #8690
    Anonymous @

    Does anyone here have a theory on how the different ‘upgrades’ worked in this episode?

    1) Why did Mr Wembley’s partial upgrade cover so much of his head, yet the children just had a flashing blue light on their ear?  Because of the future possibilities of their youth (I liked that call-back to TRoA!), the children were taking longer?

    2) Why did all 3 of those upgrades stall and send the person into stasis, rather than continuing?  (0ther than, of course, that the story needed the children to be rescue-able)  I’ll buy the Doctor’s partial upgrade stalling due to the chess battle for the rest of his mind and memories.   Did that chess battle also affect these 3 people’s upgrade time?

    3) If that first Cyberman was capable of bullet-time, why weren’t the rest?  Was that one upgraded further than the thousands stored in the bunkers?  If so, the rest proved able to upgrade at will (to the blaster, to the charged water), so why not introduce bullet time for them, other than the fact that everyone in the castle would have be goners.

    4) The Cybermites:  why didn’t they start upgrading people – and restoring the Cybermen shells – until the Doctor showed up?  (might be a tautological question)

    One last thought:  the Cybermites had access to Angie’s phone.  Now they know how to contact everyone she knows – including Clara.

     

    #8691
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @Shazzbot I first interpreted that skirt line as a rest of the cyberman. I dont think the Doctor would not know though. So if it is 100% the Doctor I find that line quite disturbing. It’s exactly as unnerving as what he says about her in “she said, he said” the “p”-word. Very unsetteling to me. (Those of you who watced it shoud know…)

    #8692
    Anonymous @

    @thedoctordude, @janetteb, @blenkinsopthebrave , @timeloop:

    But how tragic that, even though the phrase ‘nobody dies!’ was used twice before, and in both cases was absolutely true in those circumstances … in this episode, plenty of soldiers died.  It felt like a cry of desperation this time, where both times before it was a cry of triumph.

    #8693
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip“What happens to a pawn when it gets to the eight rank (end of the chessboard)?

    It gets promoted. It becomes a Queen. It is possible, in chess, for one side to have two or more Queens on the board – if one starts out as a pawn.”

    Oooh, you are on fire!  Marvellous, marvellous, because it emphasises that Clara is indeed just an ordinary girl – for now.  🙂

    #8694
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @Shazzbot 1) Maybe because he is human. Maybe because he had more time being a cyper-upgrade. The children might be unharmed because the cyberman lerned about the doctors potential.

    2)Wembley got upgraded, didnt he?

    4) It is stated they they needed children.

    Nice thought with the phone idea! Though they might just have wanted the parts

    #8695
    Anonymous @

    @timeloop – I meant ‘upgrade’ as in completely turned into a Cyberman.  I just had another thought on that topic, though – the Cybermen haven’t upgraded anyone for 1000 years, so perhaps they’ve gotten a little rusty at it.  🙂

    #8696
    Timeloop @timeloop

    Well…… maybe they were just too far away from the upgrading station…?

    #8697
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @scaryb Really glad they didn’t all move as fast as that first one (Did I miss something about why that was the case?)

    That was unexpected! If they can upgrade on the spot, how did that come about? Seemed almost like the repeated iterations concept from JttCotT. I know some have said both they and the Sontarans have been… reduced so I’d be curious to see them as they were.

    @thedoctordude The “Child’s brain with infinite potential” line very much reminded me of the leaf from RoA

    Perhaps that’s also why the GI takes an interest in them?

    Thanks for the Mechanical Turk mention @wolfweed! Knew I’d seen it before but couldn’t think of the name.

    #8698
    thommck @thommck

    Just saw the “he said, she said” prequel. Not a spoiler for the next ep, definitely just a prequel for the finale. Fun to watch 🙂

    My 8 y/o was asking me why Clara is impossible so I told him a few theories. He is now confident Clara is a regenerated River. I’m still not euro but with all the waxwork/double/mirror refs she will most likely turn out to be a creation of someone and not,in fact, just an ordinary girl

    #8700
    noofer @noofer

    Did anyone else notice that the cybermen upgrade fast, just like the borge from star trek

    #8701
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    OK, we finally got to see it in the colonies.

    And what was my response?

    Well, I think everyone on this site knows how much I love this show, but…I really and truly thought this was…rubbish!

    Sorry, but I did.

    I thought Matt Smith was brilliant! His portrayal of the Doctor vs. the Cyberised Doctor was awesome. both at the chess board and in the computerised world the two sides of him inhabited.

    But the rest? The amusement park setting? The punishment detail? The children? Clara as the military commander? No. Sorry.

    Both Mrs Blenkinsop and I noted on how much it reminded us of the Hartnell episode “The Chase”, where the Doctor and Ian and Barbara are on the run from the Daleks and they end up in a wax museum with Frankenstein’s monster and Dracula. And it was all done for laughs. And, terrible as this sounds, we both thought “The Chase” (which is very hokey) actually did it better!

    Crikey, I do so wish I could have liked it better. But…were the Cybermen really more frightening? Really? Think back to the Cyberman in Underhendge that attacks Amy and the Doctor. That really was frightening.

    OK, I will watch it again. And again, because that’s who I am. An enthusiast. But…

    Believe me, I want to be proven that I am being too harsh.

    #8702

    What did people make of the screen-POV we got several times

    Wasn’t that just a cybermite POV?

    #8703
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Not got much to add at the moment, too hungover after a very long day yesterday, but thought I should point out, as I don’t think anyone else has yet, that “See you next Wednesday” is a 2001 reference that John Landis incorporated into almost all his films. Why it’s referenced here I have no idea, yet. 😕

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_You_Next_Wednesday

    @phaseshift Have confirmed @danmartin and @danmartinuk so hopefully he’ll be joining us soon.

    #8704
    SatsumaJoe @satsumajoe

    @craig Didn’t pick up on that! Perhaps as each episode has been touted as cinematic or seeing the entirety of the mystery in about a week?

    #8706
    Anonymous @

    @blenkinsopthebrave– I was a bit ‘meh’ but I don’t think it was rubbish; but then, I don’t have your frame of reference to earlier shows.  Initital comment by @htpbdet pointed out many references to earlier episodes which made him think it was good.  Room for all opinions here, which is why I like this site so much.

    Saying that, I don’t understand why two children who look about 10/11 and 14/15 are put to bed for a nap.  Really?  When the Doctor thinks there are suspicious insects about (at that point in time, he might even suspect Cyber origin)?  I thought it was a way for him to wander off as he keeps telling everyone else not to do, and which Angie picked up on too.  But if that nap business isn’t addressed (by my favourite background arc explanation, ‘it’s all a story’) then it will just sit there as a strange-smelling plot point.

    I’m feeling a bit better about the episode today after having read @bluesqueakpip ‘s chess comments.

    #8707
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – looking at the wikipedia page you referenced, I’d be inclined to think it’s a 2001 reference. Being, as it is, the last line spoken to Frank Poole by his parents  – shortly before he gets set adrift in space by a mad computer intelligence. 😈

    If people want to watch the clip:

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpzCGZnpXkE

     

    #8708
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    And I thought I had too much time on my hands. How the Doctor could have won in six moves, without the sonic:

    http://setsuled.livejournal.com/880790.html

    Nightmare in Silver chess board

    #8709
    confuseus @confuseus

    Ooookaay just saw that.  A mighty fine romp with enormous plot holes.  Thought Matt Smith was quite extraordinary, except for that weird sentence at the end.  WTF was that about?  Clara was an instant general, didn’t quite make sense to me.  Her whole character is becoming frustrating, I sincerely hope she’s a construct and not an actual person, otherwise I shall be quite disappointed.

    I just don’t understand why the kids were brought on board, in any way shape or form.  Even to enhance the plot – I assume the writers thought that governess to general isn’t that big a step for a young girl to envisage, and quite how the children being there impacted the chess game was confusing, was it just to prove the Doctor cares and the cyberman were confused by what he was trying to achieve?  It seems a bit unnecessary to me.

    The cybermen were too unbelievable, why did that first one move so quickly and the others didn’t have that speed upgrade?  The partial upgrades of the children etc. stalling was a bit odd. The cybermites were good, much better than the cybermats.

    Will have to watch again tomorrow, didn’t really work for me apart from Matt Smith’s acting.  Very, very good.  I also thought Warwick Davis was a nice touch, and a great twist on who he was.  He pulled that off very well, and added some much-needed gravitas to all the musical racket and screams that kind of detracted from the scariness.

    Don’t they know that Silence is much more frightening than Din?

    #8710
    Anonymous @

    @osakahatter and @thedoctordude

    The 699 Wonders of the Universe are addressed in the ‘4th Dimension’ details for this episode on the BBC website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01skfzk/features/nightmare-in-silver-the-fourth-dimension .

    #8714
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    shan

    As well as the puppet from TGC, Webley’s World of  Wonders contained waxworks of a Shansheeth from SJA and a Blowfish from Torchwood/TPO, & many other obscure Who monsters.

    Wednesday derives from ‘Day of Mercury’. Amongst other things, Mercury is the patron god of messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves; he is also the guide of souls to the underworld.

    #8715
    Timeloop @timeloop

    @blenkinsopthebrave maybe by reading our reactions you got your hopes up, expecting too much and got disappointed because of that

    #8716
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    The cybermen were too unbelievable, why did that first one move so quickly and the others didn’t have that speed upgrade? 

    @confuseus, I’d imagine that’s like asking why every aircraft doesn’t have the speed of a fighter jet.  There’s an energy/weaponry cost to speed – very likely, that was a specialised ‘snatch’ cyberman, designed to do exactly what it did. Move with impossible speed to snatch a kid that the other humans will be trying to protect.

    There may have been a line that got cut. But if they’d spent the episode trying to do lots of ‘bullet time’ scenes, they’d probably still be filming.

    #8717
    Anonymous @

    @confuseus“I just don’t understand why the kids were brought on board”

    Well, would they have gone to the universe’s largest amusement park if they didn’t have the children?  But I see what you’re saying.  Angie was so stereotypically a bratty contrary teenager (“I’m bored!” — on an alien planet) that I found it hard to reconcile her attitude with Clara taking care of her for a year.

    If it was a nod to Sarah Jane Adventures then it was misjudged, because as rounded as those teenage characters were, they never were portrayed as so blatantly, one-dimensionally off-putting as Angie in this episode.

    And even though they spent most of the episode in a ‘walking coma’, they surely were terrified when captured by the Cyberman and after waking up; and yet were weirdly unscathed when leaving the Tardis.  I’m not a TV writer but I think this show would have benefited from letting a little air out of the balloon which was expanded in the end of the previous episode, when they were nonchalant about time travel and so forth, and showing at the end of this ep that they had had a frightening (if exhilarating) experience.

    As usual, though, I’m reserving my judgment on the oddities and holes in this episode, assuming that they will be addressed next week.  And if not … I may move from ‘meh’ to ‘I really didn’t get it.’

    #8719
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Ok – I’ve just done my rewatch and I still think this is excellent stuff, with one exception.

    The kids – now that was a shame because since little Amelia we’ve had some great natural performances from kids on the show, and their interactions with Matt have made for some great television. If you compare the girl who played young Clara in the prequel, it’s a far more natural sounding performance than last night which seemed too stilted and mannered. A bit “stage schooly”, perhaps? I found that this was more than made up for by Warwick Davies. So often behind latex, or adopting a jokey voice, here he had a role to bit into and obviously did it with some relish.

    The main point though was the Cybermen. A fantastic idea that was allowed to diminish after their sixties heyday. I premptied the “Borg” question on the Guardian blog because some people do have no sense of history. Kit Peddler, who co-created the Cybermen was a scientist and writer. His original inspiration was organ replacement surgery and played on the notion of how much you could replace before really calling yourself human.

    It was a cutting edge idea. The term “Cyborg” was only coined in 1960 and when the “Cybermen” were created it still wasn’t in common useage. It’s easy to forget that. For me, it seems natural to extrapolate that to include elements of nano-technology that were developed in the 80s. The old show missed that trick before cancellation, but by then they were on a long slide towards irrelevence. Attack of the Cybermen saw a Cyberman killed by a “lucky shot” to a vulnerable point we’d never heard of before. How the mighty had fallen.

    The scariest Cyberman since the reboot was in “The Pandorica Opens”. My neice screamed as the head grappled with Amy and discharged that skull. People suggested it didn’t make sense, but for me the idea that the robot part, if it’s internal organs had rotted or failed, would have enough basic comprehension to seek out new organic parts made them all the more creepy. It also had echoes of a quote from “Revenge of the Cybermen” in which they proclaim they have “Robot parts hidden to build a new army”. Robot parts who could seek out the organic oomponents themselves perhaps.

    I think they trialled the ideas of new conversion pretty effectively in the free to download* Adventure Game “Blood of the Cybermen”. In it the cybermats are used to inject nanites into targets who slowly turn into “cyberslaves”. If you haven’t had a go, it’s pretty good. Very atmospheric.

    So for me, this did bring back the creeping menace of the Cybes. The scene where the Mites crawled out of their eyes I could guarantee would have lodged in my mind had I been a nipper.

    My one concern is perhaps too powerful. I think this was a trap RTD fell into with the Daleks. When one Dalek could cause so much havoc and was invincible, numbers don’t matter. The resolutions then became trickery and probably not as satisfying. GodDonna spinning a few buttons and muttering some technobabble comes to mind. We’ll see how that one plays out.

    * Legally free to download in the UK from the BBC web-site. Although if you’re overseas a quick google search may provide you with other alternatives.

    #8720
    janetteB @janetteb

    Have finally watched the episode and enjoyed it. (It certainly doesn’t deserve the abuse on the Guardian.) Lots to like but a few quibbles. I found both Angie and Clara irritating though the later might have an excuse. Once again she peforms the role set for her by the Doctor. It is as though he is generating her. I wondered if the reference at the end to the tight skirt has a double meaning, the obvious, which is signalled by his evident discomfort but actually alludes to her “personalty.” She is being compressed into a role of his devising, her personality is being constrained.

    I also hope that there is more to hte children than just the shallow little brats they appear to be, (Angie anyway)  but I fear it will not be so. In a way it is a shame that the children weren’t more appealing as giving the companion some other than the Doctor to care for adds depth to the character, something that Clara appears to need if she is to be anything more than a narrative device.

    I loved the secondary characters in this and the setting though more time was required to make better use of it.

    Interesting play on the  name as password which either sets up the Doctor’s name as password or is a red herring. I can’t decide which.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #8721
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip Yes, I think more Kubrick than Landis. But then it does beg some questions. Is it just a writer’s in-joke? Just a thrown-in sci-fi reference? Or, in a reflection of 2001, is it a parent saying “See you next Wednesday” before they leave their son alone on his spaceship? Clara as the Doctor’s Mother (or Father, anything is possible)?

    Am beginning to feel human again 😀

    #8722
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Just really a question for @juniperfish, @scaryb and @whisht (and anyone else concerned about spoilers).

    I think you all know I’m averse to spoilers myself. I have watched the prequel that was on the blue button and was going to embed it here somewhere for discussion. On a personal level, I’m not going to do that in the spoilers section, as I’m avoiding there like the plague.

    My reasoning is: As a prequel, this is designed to be seen before the show. I think we all enjoyed the prequel to Bells on the news pages, and it didn’t really spoil the show in the slightest.

    Having seen it, I merely outlines some interesting points about the story so far, and the questions each have for one another. It’s pretty tame stuff. If you are avoiding the prequel I can embed it in the news section and post a few thoughts there (as with Bells) which should be easy enough to avoid for a week.

    Any thoughts on preference?

    #8723
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @bluesqueakpip and @Shazzbot re the pawn becoming a Queen on the chess board….

    Indeed and, as I mentioned in an earlier episode thread, this is precisely what happens to Alice in Through the Looking Glass which is structured around a chess metaphor (and which has been overtly referenced in the current season twice now).

    @phaseshift I’ve played that Dr. Who game and being stuck on the locked room with the cyber-slave was actually really scary – it took me quite a few deaths to get out of there too! [btw of course I’d be happy to have the Bond/ Who comparison review on the blog – tell me what to do in the website comments thread and I’ll do it :-)].

    Also, re the children, yes they really didn’t work as characters to connect to emotionally.

    But were they supposed to? They came across as cyphers, puzzling add-ons… And then I remember the children in CAL in the library whom we see River tucking into bed in the final scenes in Forest of the Dead.

    I think it’s looking likely that the Doctor and River have been in communication throughout the season (at least since Asylum of the Daleks) via some kind of psychic link and River has been “speaking” to him in the language of metaphor and parallel, dreamscapes, but not all a dream.

    #8724
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @janetteb and almost everyone else. When I watched the tight skirt line again, firstly I thought “I haven’t seen Clara wearing any tight skirts”. She actually seems to wear quite loose skirts compared to Amy. But mainly I thought that was the cyber Mr Clever still in his head. He does shake himself out of it after he says it. And (just with a few Matt flourishes) he looks like he realises the Cybermen are not completely out of his head.

    So if he started to become Dalekised in AotD, and is now being assimilated as a Cyberman as well, could that actually be his salvation, with one cancelling the other out. I can actually see that as his masterplan (or at least Moffat’s).

    @htpbdet was complaining about why he didn’t get out of the Cyber-whatever earlier. Maybe that’s why?

    #8725
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @craig I like that – a Cyber-Dalek war in the Doctor’s head, one designed to neutralise the other! Wow that really is a very nasty case of the space-flu 🙂

     

    #8726
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @juniperfish Great. Have made you an “author” so you can write blog posts. Just hover over the “+New” tab in the top bar and click “Post”. You’ll get a screen where you just have to add a title for your blog post, then copy and paste the content of youR post into the main text area. Then just hit the publish button on the right. I’ll sort everything else out. 😀

    #8727
    janetteB @janetteb

    I wonder if the next time we see Clara she will be wearing a tight skirt.

    Cheers

    Janette

    #8728
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @juniperfish Cheers, I kinda like it too. First theory this season I’ve really been happy with as, as everyone has said, much of the stories haven’t progressed the arc much. But having the first episode a Dalek episode, and the penultimate episode a Cybermen episode, both of which involved The Doctor’s exposure to them, I’m thinking I may be on to something. Moffat will no doubt cut me down in flames next week!

    #8729
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @phaseshift Yes, I can see why you don’t want to put the prequel in the spoilers thread.

    Maybe it should get it’s own thread, so those who don’t see it as a spoiler can discuss it and those who do can avoid it?

    Can we do that?

    To be honest I’ve succumbed and watched it 🙂 But I don’t want other people to feel that they can’t be in this thread until next Saturday…

    Deciding what does and doesn’t count as a spoiler is very hard in this universe of Radio Times and BBC website spoilers. I actually saw a BBC photo of the two Matt Smiths from this episode on Tumblr just before it aired and I was so annoyed and so excited both, because clearly the dopplegangner Doctor trope I keep banging on about was in evidence but I didn’t want to know that in advance of the episode!

    What does everyone else think?

     

    #8730
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    c a

    #8731
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    I just had a thought – What if Clara is River Song’s ‘Babooshka’? That would be bonkers…

    #8732
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @phaseshift I think anything on the BBC site can be posted in the News section. Probably best there rather than here. Please go ahead. And the great thing about a video is that you have to press play, so no one can blame anyone but themselves.

    If it’s on Youtube then there are no problems. The one thing I’ve found about embedding the BBC videos is that they are set to autoplay, which is not a good thing (but I may be doing it wrong). If your post autoplays the video you need to edit the code and change the two mentions of autoplay=true to autoplay=false.

    Hope that helps.

    #8733
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Points of View just debated about when trailers and adverts are too spoilery (included shots from NIS)…

    #8734
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @phaseshift re spoilers

    OK, I maybe got hypersensitive to spoilers yesterday.  In context that I’m glad I avoided the 2 doctors pic till after NiS, would you still say it’s OK to watch?

    I’d be cool with it being posted in News or a trailers/prequels thread

    But I’m also cool with relocating to the music thread with @whisht for the next week if the majority want to discuss including the trailers.  (Or a spoiler free zone for the truly paranoid, LOL

    @juniperfish @craig

     

    #8737
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @wolfweed – re debate – what conclusion did they come to?

    General refs/riffs –

    Good call on the John Landis/2001 connection – I missed that completely.  So, combination of “about to be whisked off to the next stage of his evolution in company of mad computer” and the concept of a weekly “date” – going to see fictitious films.

    As I mentioned on the G-blog (OK I succumbed, but I’m still shocked at the vitriol on it; took advantage of the nesting to get a positive comment on the first page) – if last week riffed on Frankenstein, this week was Dracula (resurrection, infection etc). Eeeeeek.

    The callout to the world of Pinochio (Again. (was it Clara who commented on the Doctor’s(?) nose growing in BoSJ?)) – which is about a construct who wants to be a real boy but has to learn what it is that makes you human. The poster for Lampwick’s (P’s friend who encourages him to go to Pleasure Island where all the boys get turned into donkeys/slaves)

    Love all the chess refs. It’s a game with a surprisingly long history (apparently even longer now, LOL). @bluesqueakpip‘s sacrificial queens, queens protecting the king, pawns which can be upgraded to queens… plus of course Fenric (also vampire) and Seventh Seal. So is the GI playing a really long tactical game of chess with the Doctor?

    #8738
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @scaryb @juniperfish @craig

    Thanks for the thoughts. I have put it in the News section, which makes sense as we’ve done it before. I’m going to tidy up my speculative thoughts and post them under it later, as the recap has been useful. I’ve put up a warning as well, and it’s only a week that that thread will have to be avoided, and a thread for itself is just going to be a bit redundant.

    It’ll be interesting to read other peoples final thoughts this week. All cards are on the table for the finale. What’s everyone’s individual theory?

    #8739
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    @scaryb – The conclusions were many but mainly ‘Dear BBC, don’t try to attract new viewers with the spoileriness in your trailers @ the expense of your core regular audience’. [Doesn’t apply to all previews/trailers]

    Also, ‘Perhaps a spoiler warning (a la footie results) would be in order…’

    You can watch it here.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01sk7x8/Points_of_View_2013_Episode_6/

    #8740
    ScaryB @scaryb

    The Doctor’s comment about Clara’s too tight… skirt

    First of all, as mentioned before, it’s definitely out of character and meant to suggest a little bit of residual cyber-thinking. The fact that he overcomes it could be meant to reassure us that the Dr is back in control, or set up the doubt that he may still be vulnerable to it.

    Second – Clara’s skirt wasn’t particularly tight; her jacket was, but not her skirt. Costume dept fail, or over-reading on my part?

    @craig – great idea re Daleks and Cybermen fight a psychic battle for control of the Doctor’s mind LOL – Matt in triple-role..?!

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