Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
11 July 2013 at 11:59 #13615
Just on the BBC 50th celebrations, can I suggest something?
I’m aware of this conversation breaking out in quite a few of our own forums with different contributors wanting to have their say, and I think we should try to minimise that where possible.
Does someone want to write a blogpost on their perspective for us to bounce off? I’m quite happy to do it myself at the weekend, if no-one else wants to. I just think turning the news, sofa, episode discussions and others into little conversations about the subject (which we all have feelings about) risks looking a bit “moany”.
10 July 2013 at 22:39 #13584It escaped the spending review this time because of pressure (some organised by the T&A) since this was published, but it’s status is “under review”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2013/jun/10/national-media-museum-bradford-closure?INTCMP=SRCHHopefully now there are plans for the Odeon building and the City is starting to recover after the Westfield fiasco, people might start going there again.
10 July 2013 at 22:33 #13582it’s really difficut to have ‘a classy, vicious murderous enemy’ who is female nowadays, especially in what is still ostensibly a children’s programme on the BBC with a male protagonist; but, also in general.,,,
….but a female baddie could and should be able to be both classy and vicious without those [youthful] sexual elements that come from being ‘gorgeous’
Ahem… do we all forget so soon?
10 July 2013 at 18:08 #13561Ah. Ignore that link. I thought it would be a similar arrangement to a couple of other publications they’ve requested contributions for – free finished product and a small fee for selected entries. Looking more closely, this one is clearly more of a vanity publishing effort, cheeky buggers, with them reaping the reward. Many apologies.
Good to hear you’re interested in the BMM event though. It concerns me that it’s highlighted for closure. I know it’s an important venue in a City which has always been neglected in comparison with neighbouring Leeds, and some of the events I’ve seen it organise have been well put together.
10 July 2013 at 16:39 #13548A couple of things, one which has been mentioned, and another which may interest @htpbdet.
Both deal with fandom and the 50th.
As mentioned the Bradford Media Museum is hosting an event, but for anyone who missed the link, they are looking for items with links to the show (pictures, correspondence, home made stuff) with stories behind them. It’s about why people are fans as much as the show, which is nice. I have a couple of items I might contact them about, as I went to University there and know the museum well (although it was the Museum of Film, Photography and Television back then).
Article (non – BBC) http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/07/national-media-museum-080713120008.html
This may interest @htpbdet – A request for input for a collection of essays called “The Doctor and I”.
We’re inviting you to submit your own essays (but they’re not really essays – essays are NOT cool!) which detail your personal introduction to the Doctor Who fandom. How did it all begin for you? What initially got you so hooked? How has your life been affected since? We are particularly looking for stories that are special, moving and, most importantly, unique to you.
In a nutshell, we want to know what being a Doctor Who fan means to YOU – whether you’ve been following the Doctor since Day 1 or accidentally stumbled upon his recent adventures at 4 in the morning on Netflix, we want to hear from you, in essay/report/diary/story style.
And here comes the really cool bit – the stories will be collated into a special commemorative book which will go on sale later this year. The book will serve as a celebration of the fandom that’s been 50 years in the making with – we hope – stories from fans worldwide young and old, as we come together to mark the Doctor’s 50th birthday. We also hope to include contributions from those who have worked on the series who will reflect on their own experiences with the Doctor, both on and off screen.
Link to project homepage.http://whoviannet.co.uk/anniversary/thedoctorandi/
10 July 2013 at 16:36 #13547Thanks for that. Ouch – pay 60 odd quid and what you get is a vanilla copy of Terror of the Zygons without special features. So add your copy of the real release to your basket as well. Takes the biscuit indeed.
They’ll be sold out on pre-orders. Worldwide know an
idiottrue fan too well.7 July 2013 at 23:20 #13325The reason I found the clip is more or less the reason @scaryb pointed out. Masses of material on the BBC Worldwide Doctor Who channel, so I try to look at it once a week and see what’s new. I have no idea for the reason for the clip, but it’s a newly produced mix. I’ve just used a clip from there on the Talons thread that I like to emphasise a point Jim raised on Leela.
It contains some unique stuff. For instance, each of the writers doing one of the Puffin books has a small feature talking about their choice of Doctor, memories, etc.
You can find it here (with an intro by Strax):
7 July 2013 at 23:11 #13324@chickenelly @wolfweed and others
(Jumps up and down in excitement at the request for a nerd)
Philip Segal was Exec Producer and he was at Amblin trying to negotiate rights, but more on behalf of Universal, who owned Amblin. He’d worked with the Director before. Universal produced it for Fox as a trial commission.
Spielberg actually was involved in an earlier attempt by Disney to buy Doctor Who. He left that attempt early after he had a disagreement with Disney. They wanted to launch a TV show with their Touchstone Television brand and he suggested only the Disney brand would work for a character like that. It didn’t happen. I don’t think he had any involvement with the Segal work at all.
It’s an interesting idea on the movie. We should finish Talons on the 20th, and we were going to launch a conversation about McGann on the Faces thread for August, so it could work. It’s not episodic though, so won’t have the same feel.
If people have the Revisitations 1 box set, Caves of Andrazani at 4 weeks is a good one. I do like @jimthefish s suggestions of something from McCoy. Ghostlight seems to divide people, so it might be a good one to enter a story which isn’t always taken to be an automatic “classic”.
7 July 2013 at 23:06 #13323I agree, the little analogies by Leela were a great way of explaining the concepts of the show without having the Doctor talk down to her. It showed that though she didn’t necessarily have much “tesh”/tech knowledge she was intelligent and tried to work things out in her own way. I think that combined with her curiosity were great character traits.
I still love the scene in Robots of Death and her equivalent of an “it’s bigger on the inside” moment. Basically she demands an explanation. And she gets one. Of a kind.
Great moment well worth revisiting if anyone wants the explanation (no spoilers about 1.5 min long):
7 July 2013 at 00:03 #13281It’s funny that in setting up both The Doctor and River and liers, you can read almost anything and nothing into their dialogue together, and their story can go anywhere. 😀 If Alex is up for it I’m sure a pre-Library River could gate crash an episode with 12.
When they announced 10 and Rose for the 50th, my immediate reaction was “Damn – not Donna”. Nothing against Billie Piper, but I think a mid-story Donna meeting 11 would have been hilarious.
On the Vastra Narada front, I don’t know if anyone else played the free adventure game “Shadow of the Vastra Narada”, but it is actually quite creepy. You have to run down corridors with intermitting lighting, and if you mistime it all goes black and you hear the munching begin. Not to mention being chased by Diving suit Zombies. Well worth an hour or two of your time.
6 July 2013 at 23:36 #13280This is an odd one, so I’ll pop it here and ask if anyone knows what it’s for. I’m guessing it’s some kind of viral marketing for something (maybe the appearance by Tom Baker at the 50th) in which case I’m doing what I’m expected to and spreading it around. What a fool I am.
It’s official BBC Worldwide with no description. Just #fourth, and comprising dialogue from the Baker era over pictures of companions and stuff. It seems tailor made for speculation though, with the lingering “Don’t forget about me”. Strange.
6 July 2013 at 21:53 #13276By the way, did anyone else start screaming when the Doctor starts saying: “Whole continents of Jeffrey Archer”? Taken in isolation, that has to be the most chilling concept ever introduced in Doctor Who history.
I’ll have nightmares about being shipwrecked there on my own.
6 July 2013 at 21:30 #13273It eats you, starting with your bottom… oops, no, sorry. Wrong fandom.
I think we can accommodate the odd Buffy reference. 😀 After all, “by now you’ve got holovids, direct-to-brain downloads, fiction mist. But you need the smell. The smell of books, Donna” really does echo Giles opinion that “Books should Smell”.
I think you’ve caught all the ones I saw. I like the punchline delivered here for a joke set up in a couple of RTD episodes about “I love a little shop” (New Earth, Smith & Jones).
Donna “Doctor, the little shop. They always make you go through the little shop on the way out so they can sell you stuff!”
The Doctor “You’re right! Brilliant! That’s why I like the little shop!”Ahhhh Donna. I’ve said before, I grew to love Catherine Tate in the role. Lovely scene with Miss Evangalista before her death. A great opener for Alex Kingston as River and the hints of mystery. It’s going to be interesting watching these Moff episodes and following her timey-wimey path.
Nice to see Steve Pemberton as well. With Reece Shearsmith playing Patrick Troughton in “Adventures in Space and Time” we’ll soon have all the League of Gentlemen with Who associated parts.
The Vastra Nerada are an interesting idea. The concept of just the dark and shadow being alive with swarms is a great one for nightmare, but I do like the shambling Space suit “Zombies”.
The “Donna Noble has left the library, Donna Noble has been saved” end is a good cliffhanger as well.
6 July 2013 at 20:04 #13272My DVD player was acting up earlier. I think it was sulking because watching an episode a week is against the natural order in chez Phaseshift. Now working and I’ve caught up.
Loved Litefoot getting all embarrassed about buying clothes for a young lady “especially given all the rum stuff they wear”. Jago is great again, bragging to Casey about “his fellow sleuth”, counterbalanced by the look of fear when the Doctor assures him they will meet their fate alone, without backup. Lovely little glint in Baker’s eye at that.
Alas, poor Casey. Still – if you are going to go, having your corpse used by a Machiavellian fiend to embarrass his erstwhile servant to a packed house is a corker. They would have been talking about that for weeks!
Jago’s obviously grief stricken as he contemplates charging “a bob a nob” to visit The Lair. I quite like the scene where Chang relates how Weng Chiang entered his world. It has a nice undercurrent of pathos and the description is enough to make you understand why he may have automatically assumed he was dealing with a god. Then off to join his ancestors, presuming they also ended up in the belly of a giant rat. I think that back shot of it attacking him was probably one of the most effective shots of the thing.
As stevethewhistle(@steve-thorp) said, not so much a cliffhanger this week, although that was top class maniacal laughter from Weng Chiang as he rides of with his Cabinet. At least a seven on the “nutter” scale.
6 July 2013 at 14:23 #13257An anniversary special, with multiple Doctors filmed in 3D?
It has been done before. Nearly four years after cancellation Doctor Who celebrated its 30th anniversary in somewhat reduced circumstances. “Dimensions in Time” is short, and this is not the 3D version. It’s pretty awful as the Doctor interacts with EastEnders. It was done for Children in Need.
Much better from that celebration is the documentary “30 years in the TARDIS” which benefits from access to many people involved who have passed away, and some great footage about the series. It’s one and a half hours long, so here is the link. I find the sales adds that Tom Baker and Lalla Ward did for computers particularly funny.
Warning – Dimensions in Time does feature a lead in by Noel Edmonds.
6 July 2013 at 00:34 #13238Hmmm.. much of that I don’t agree with.
it is what happens in front that matters
And that is what I do judge him on largely. That has to be informed by behind the scenes issues as well. My point is that Delgado performed his Master in a limited period against one Doctor with a fairly tightly arranged writing team who had drummed into them a consistent philosophy. I don’t think that Ainley had that. If you can suggest he did I would be interested.
– and, equally, there is a line over which professional actors just should not cross –
While having no personal experience of TV production, I know a fair few actors who would disagree with you. Did Ainley cross a line that Simm didn’t? Simm expressed the view that he would prefer a direction different to RTDs to return. You nave suggested enjoyment at his portrayal. Is this something that would change your mind?
I think trying to equate someone in the position of Baker or Davison (“the stars”) with support characters like companions or regular occurring guest stars is a bit silly. We know that JNT accommodated his Doctors in a way that he wouldn’t for someone like Nicola Bryant and others. We know Davison saved Sarah Sutton from the chop. They had more power than most, while they were in the role. That is why I can excuse Ainley, but not Baker. Baker was listened to and developed that character. If you are in doubt, I invite you to view the videos we have provided of Baker. Ainley, from commentaries on his rare DVD appearances and fan appearances seemed to have drifted at the direction of writer and Director of the time. To “work to rule”. Perhaps that was his mistake, to appear with so many?
I’m not prepared to hold it against him though. I’ve rewatched his stuff on many occasion. It’s really variable, but so is the material, and what may laughably be described as “direction” in some instances. He isn’t that bad though, and Survival is something different. I certainly wouldn’t describe him as “the dreary dribbling disastrous dog-turd” that you suggested.
If you feel that about him, I have no inclination to change your mind. I think other comments stand. You suggest you can’t form an opinion on Survival, but others seem to have. For me, what I took from the screen was a remarkable difference, even in a serial that was weak in other areas. Such is life, and opinion.
5 July 2013 at 23:58 #13237Ohhhhh– Destiny of the Doctors. Great cut-scenes, some glorious (at the time) graphic flourishes, but – the gameplay sucked. It couldn’t compare to this GAP treat I was exposed to in the early 90s. The Bally Doctor Who Pinball:

I forget, exactly how many pound coins I inserted into this beauty in “The Shearbridge” in Bradford, while The Damned played “Smash it Up” and other assorted classics in the background. Too much of my grant probably. I do hope BBC Enterprises (as it was) got its cut. I was king of the table, leaving others disgusted in my wake, in awe at my prowess!
I have promised myself that, when I win the lottery I will treat myself to one of these delightful contraptions, and a suitably sized house to situate it in.
After all – it is advocated by the best. 😀
5 July 2013 at 21:46 #13228Huzzah for your work life balance and increased skill set in marguerita mixing! A valuable skill that I hope you share with the rest of us “in the pub”.
Sorry you didn’t get tickets – I was foiled as well, and I’m not going to be able to go to the convention. 🙁 Although I would have been envious, I was hoping you’d got them because it would have been great if you had a mobile device on you for you to “live blog” at periods “Holy crap … a Ood just walked past me!”. 🙂
Matt Smith did his turn at the last one, and when I read the programme and saw they would be performing the Habanera from Carmen I had the mad notion that they would spotlight him in the back, playing the triangle. That would be both mad and excellent.
5 July 2013 at 18:40 #13210Next weekend sees the Doctor Who Prom. The session on Sat 13th are being broadcast live on Radio 3 from 7:30pm.
They are being filmed for broadcast on BBC One, but the broadcast date and time are to be confirmed (the “event” proms need more editing than traditional Proms, which don’t have monsters, special effects and madcap stunts.)
Prom Info here, and here is a link to BBC Radio 3 Player if you want to listen live.
5 July 2013 at 18:31 #13209A couple of things for Doctor Seven.
New Children’s Laureate Malorie Blackman has written the Puffin book for the Seventh Doctor (link to news story).
The Guardian has a short extract:
From Doctor Who @ 40 – the Sylvester McCoy segment. I can’t believe the viewers voted to show “DragonFire”. Oh well – maybe Andrew Cartmel can explain what the hell the Doctor was doing dangling from that cliff…..
5 July 2013 at 11:19 #13201The “Boycott Star Cops” thing was all pretty inept. It started in the fanzines and broke out into publications like Starburst (even DWM featured some letters along those lines) and was reported pretty gleefully in a couple of tabloids. It was all a big conspiracy by the BBC to kill off Doctor Who. It seemed to have escaped their attention that the BBC often had other Sci-Fi serials going on in the background – Blake’s 7, Suvivors, Nightmare Man, Day of the Triffids.
5 July 2013 at 11:17 #13200Well said on Ainley. I kept out of the kicking of him earlier because it pre-empted this, the end of his run. As I wrote, he and Sylvester were pretty superb together in Suvival I thought.
I don’t think he had a hope of equalling Delgado, but Delgado was working with Script Editors who knew exactly what they wanted in their character description of him, and the writers did their job by and large. With Ainley things were more complicated.
Sarah Sutton has told a story about the rehearsals for Logopolis. He approached her and suggested they go to the writers and pitch that their scenes together should be played as if some inner conflict was going on in the Master. That some elements of her father Tremas survived. In retrospect, it was a brilliant suggestion as many of us have said that the writers clearly had no idea what to do with her character. Introducing elements like that should have been seized by the writers and been allowed to play out in Davisons first series.
They got told to go away. The writers, having perceived themselves to have “won” their battle with Tom Baker were not in the mood to accommodate the whims of actors.
So I guess he spent the next 8 years doing what he was told, a position John Simm found himself in, because he didn’t seem to really enjoy going so over the top either. His performance in Logopolis is good (I love his “Peoples of the Universe, please attend carefully”, which is why I used it to start to Delgado tribute) and think he gives a great performance in Survival. I admire a lot of elements of his business in Castrovalva (his persona of The Portreeve is very good), Five Doctors (good call by you – I can’t help thinking that was because Terrance Dicks was writing him?) and some elements of Planet of Fire. In others, it all seemed a bit panto. The nadir for me was Mark of the Rani in which he seems to be cast as completely inept idiot, and plays the part beautifully.
With Survival he was in the position of working closely with an actor who was interested in what they could do with their scenes together, and writers who were prepared to listen. It really shows.
I’m continuing to wear his face on the Guardian blogs, while I wear Delgado here.
4 July 2013 at 23:15 #13193Glad you enjoyed the videos of the comics. They gave me a happy weekend a while ago. I thought this might be the time to bring them up with the GAP discussion. I’ve got most of the collected runs.
Especially agree with @wolfweed – “End of the Line” and some of the Sixth Doctor stuff are remarkable (The Sixth Doctor in comics is quite different in feel I think to TV). I did like the sprawling pace of stories like “Tides of Time” though.
On the subject of this period, I don’t know if anyone remembers “Star Cops” from TV in 87? I wrote a post while I was away on it because I just think it chimes with some earlier conversations on the general approach to sci-fi in that era by the BBC and the certainly touches on how insane some elements of Who fandom were.
4 July 2013 at 22:06 #13184I didn’t see the Guardian story about the Paramount/Michael Jackson thing but I’m surprised that’s new “news”. They were pitches and “blue sky thinking” sessions. Danny Devito and Steve Martin were also people mentioned who probably wouldn’t have done it. 🙂
The world of leaf “could have beens” in Doctor Who lore is legendary, even if you take out the ones that aren’t true. For instance, long before it became a popular post Star Wars April Fool gag, it is true that Disney did try to buy Doctor Who lock stock and barrel from the BBC (recorded history, the lot). First in 82-83 and second in 90.
4 July 2013 at 21:48 #13181I don’t know – I go away for a few days and you go Royal crazy! 😀
Hello to all new people *waves*.
30 June 2013 at 12:12 #13029As we talk about “The Gap” it’s interesting to view how important spin-off media became during that time. Not only were the New Adventure books important, but also the work of the comic writers. Each of the faces of the Doctor has been represented in comics, and there is a series of videos which looks at this alternate Universe of the Doctor “Stripped for Action”.
I’ll embed the one for the Seventh Doctor which looks at his era, but crucially how they reacted to the cancellation, attempting to work with the authors of the New Adventures to drive an ongoing narrative for the Doctor. It therefore features people like Andrew Cartmel and Paul Cornell.
The entire series is delightful though. It comes alive with the Fourth Doctor and the creation of Doctor Who weekly. They imported some of the mad genius of comics like 2000AD in the shape of Pat Mills and others to create something unique. Why is this important? Well it’s easy to argue that the comics had an effect on the new series in the most positive way. They could get away with so much more. The fourth Doctor had a black companion, and the Eighth had a companion called Izzy who, as time went on, was revealed to be gay in the most matter of fact way. It prompted one fan to cancel his subscription in disgust, and another – one Russell T Davies to write congratulating the writers on being “marvellous, clever people”.
First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Doctor
30 June 2013 at 00:35 #13024Many thanks. As much for @craig s convience and anybody else jumping in, here is a summary:
15/06/13 – “The Empty Child” / “The Doctor Dances”
22/06/13 – “The Girl in the Fireplace”
29/06/13 – “Blink”
06/07/13 – “Silence in the Library”
13/07/13 – “Forest of the Dead”
20/07/13 – “The Eleventh Hour”
27/07/13 – “The Beast Below”
03/08/13 – “The Time of Angels” / “Flesh and Stone”
10/08/13 – “The Pandorica Opens”
17/08/13 – “The Big Bang”
24/08/13 – “A Christmas Carol”
31/08/13 – “The Impossible Astronaut”
07/09/13 – “Day of the Moon”
14/09/13 – “A Good Man Goes to War”
21/09/13 – “Let’s Kill Hitler”
28/09/13 – “The Wedding of River Song”
05/10/13 – “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe”
12/10/13 – “Asylum of the Daleks”
19/10/13 – “The Angels Take Manhattan”
26/10/13 – “The Snowmen”
02/11/13 – “The Bells of Saint John”
09/11/13 – “The Name of the Doctor”I’m pretty sure I’ve missed something here. I will rely on others to point out what a cretin I am.
29 June 2013 at 23:47 #13023It’s an interesting question on differences. Largely, there isn’t one. People talk about the Lett’s Era, Hinchliffe, and sub sets of Script Editors (Douglas Adams, Andrew Cartmel) but you notice these distinctions are created as fan constructs to discuss periods of the show, and therefore their use comes into being when “fandom” itself is on the rise. No one talks about the “Lambert” era because fans were not around back then.
In the old days, the main producer and script editor directed the show. They commissioned ideas and scripts to meet an ongoing narrative they had agreed. JNT basically turned that position and made himself the background face of the show in a way no previous producer/script editor had. He was a publicity hound.
These days that position is both defined and informed by him. SM does not have the power that JNT had. He also does not have full creative freedom. He couldn’t do something like the “MasterPlan” or agree to reveal the Doctor’s name without permission from Worldwide who now do protect the “Brand of the Doctor” with an almost zealous enthusiasm.
Both he and RTD are expected to be the production “Face” of the show in the way that JNT desired though. Make of that what you will.
29 June 2013 at 23:07 #13018Watching it again reminded me a bit of Walter de la Mare’s ‘The Listeners’
Ooohhh! Splendid reference. If I could award gold stars ,I’d award you one. Imagine it.
On next weeks episodes I’ll take @bluesqueakpip s advice. Library is a double parter and I know that we have to watch a couple of those in a week to meet the schedule set out. Are we watching part one next week, or both? I’m as easy as only a man can be after consuming two litres of Crème de menthe!
29 June 2013 at 22:48 #13015I’m glad you (and others) enjoyed that interview. Sylvester always strikes me that way, very open, honest and disarming. I actually get the impression he put a lot of thought into what he wanted to do with the role.
On the use of accents (and Ace not being allowed to use one) I think this was something in the era, rather than it being “for the Americans”. JNT may have said it to Sylvester, but JNT was, on occasion, a “lying lier with his pants-on-fire”.
About the same time (early 87) Phil Redmond who produced popular kids soap “Grange Hill” got a snotty memo circulated to all shows with a strong Children audience telling them to stop using “Estuary” English. It’s a bit laughable in that they expected realistic representations of children to start speaking like they came from stage school. I can see JNT going along with it.
I always compare the BBC to Robocop 2.
RobocopThe BBC has three directives•
“Serve the public trust”Educate
•“Protect the innocent”Inform
•“Uphold the law”EntertainIn Robocop 2, his directives are written by concerned and interested parties. By committee. He gets about 3 million contradictory directives and goes mental.
That really is the BBC on occasion.
29 June 2013 at 21:12 #13010I mentioned last week the confidential for this one, which was directed by David Tennant and sees him in conversation with Steve Moffat and many of the other creatives involved in the new show. You do get the feeling what a labour of love this is to a certain extent.
Do you remember the first time?
29 June 2013 at 21:07 #13009You know – I actually watched this with a couple of people who really don’t like Doctor Who and they were amazed by it. Properly spluttering “bloody hell” while on the edge of their seats.
It’s an astonishing episode. Does it lack heart? I’m not sure. What really makes this for me are the performances by the leads, who bare the burden of the load of the story. Carey Mulligan and Finlay Robertson deserve real credit for immediately becoming so likeable in such a short time. Sally Sparrow sees her best friend obliterated from current time (with tales of her life/news of her death delivered in writing again) and a potential love interest sped forward to an elderly incarnation. Her meeting with the aged Billy Shipton really bought a tear to my eye.
The use of limited time for the Doctor and Martha is so well handled as @bluesqueakpip said. The dialogue for the Easter egg segments is just perfectly judged.
The Angels themselves are a brilliant conceit. Probably the first iconic villain that the modern series has delivered. When I saw them, the only immediate precedent that came to mind was Stephen King’s “The Shining” (book) and the topiary hedge animals that only move when you aren’t looking at them. Having seen kids shriek at the scene where Larry blinks and the Angels are in his face, I have to hand it to SM and the production team for producing something so joyously horrific.
Brilliant stuff.
29 June 2013 at 20:26 #13005Just consider – if this had been March 1978, I’d have been heartbroken to have missed this and miserable that I’d probably never see it as circumstances robbed me of the allotted time.
As I grew up in the West Midlands, for some reason I was deeply pleased by the Doctors faith in a gun produced in Birmingham. 😀
@wolfweed is right, as I kid I actually started to feel something for Chang here. His master is much more monstrous than he, even if he obeys his orders. His rather pitiful “but they are missed, my Lord” suggests concern for his master but perhaps tinged with a realisation that they are humans who will always be missed.
Yep – Leela strips down, but it’s pretty difficult to tackle a supervillain while carting a bustle about your rear end. I know. I’ve tried (Looooong story).
29 June 2013 at 13:16 #12977I agree that you can’t underestimate some of the impact of this run and the New Adventures on the AG series. One of the joys of doing this thread has been watching some old serials and reading some of the books to organise my thoughts. Re-reading some of the New Adventures (currently “The Left Handed Hummingbird”) you can see elements of the new series that seem so obvious. Hummingbird sees the Doctor and companions meet someone who knows them from his past, but they’ve not met him yet, which sparks the adventure. I think exploring those kind of narrative possibilities was really established here.
The character of Bernice Summerfield as well. Sassy future archaeologist whose fate is intertwined with the Doctor? I’m still pretty convinced the name River Song comes from the final monologue by the Seventh.
Many thanks for the read. I must admit, I’ve heard from kids who were young at the time that they found the Kandyman terrifying. I guess that one really does rely on age. At 17, I just rolled my eyes and thought “It’s ****ing Bertie Bassett! Jesus Wept!”.
29 June 2013 at 09:41 #12972“Everything’s got to end some time. Otherwise nothing would ever get started.” – Eleventh Doctor
….but really it wasn’t the end. The ironic thing about the Seventh Doctor is that he never really went away. The stories continued. The owners of the Target imprint that had made money out of the novelisations got into financial difficulties and were bought by Virgin, who finished the stories they were allowed to, and began “The New Adventures”. These followed the continuing journey of the Seventh Doctor and Ace (being joined by Bernice Summerfield) and saw the gradual reveal of Andrew Cartmels “Masterplan”.
Such was the relative success of this range, it was soon joined by another. The “Missing Adventures” saw new adventures for old Doctors and companions inserted between established televised stories.
I followed both sets of books, but do have mixed feelings about them. As the detail about the “MasterPlan” was unveiled, I decided that it wasn’t that masterful after all. I think Cartmel diagnosed a problem … wrongly. He thought that revealing too much about the Time Lords had reduced the Doctor to a certain extent. He wanted mystery back. In practice though, his solution seemed to tortuously add layers of text about Gallifrey and the Doctors “mythical” status in their society. I’m glad it never went down that road on screen. They can safely be regarded as pure stories about the Doctor, and pretty exaggerated ones at that.
They did throw up a lot of emerging writers who went to town with the series though. People like Paul Cornell, Gareth Roberts and Mark Gatiss all contributed books. So as a training ground for emerging writers they were a win. Cornell’s “Human Nature” first saw light of day as one of these books, and more than a few are worth a read.
Again, the “Missing Adventures” were very hit and miss stuff. The main problem with them is often the “feel”. The introductions to the two series make a great play of congratulating the reader on being an adult reader of “Doctor Who”. A bit more sex, violence and swear words signify an adult mindset, obviously. Thing is – is more adult orientated Doctor Who really, well, Doctor Who anymore? It’s an interesting question, to which I think the further it got away from the original intent of the show, the more diminished it seemed.
The last few years of the show had seen Dalpol release Doctor Who action figures. They continued to release them in all their glory as well as iconic accessories such as the five sided control console. The commercial arm of the BBC (Enterprises) happily sat back and counted the coin from merchandising sales from a show its Public service arm had cancelled. All the time, the rumours circulated, Doctor Who would be coming back as films, as television. America was interested!
Fandom even had a go at producing its own screen material on occasion, with variable results. For example, licensing the names of the Sontarans and Rutans from the estate of Robert Holmes to produce “Shakedown”. No Doctor to be seen, but clearly from references within, set in the Doctors universe. The sixty minute production is available on You Tube here.
So – it’s a huge irony that, although Sylvester gets negative feelings about the show being cancelled on his watch, his was the face, in comics and adorning the covers of books, that fans used to keep the series alive. Not bad for an incarnation that drew the “short plank”. He can receive some real stick at conventions, but always approaches it with a warm humour, and above all being an ambassador for the show. I think he gets a raw deal. He was a better Doctor than Colin Baker, I think, and understood more of the role than his predecessor does, but the money and interest in the show at the BBC just wasn’t there at the time.
Here’s a great written interview with McCoy about his time on the show.
I started with a quote from the Eleventh Doctor, so here is Sylvester in conference action delivering “The Pandorica Opens” speech.
29 June 2013 at 09:30 #12971“You don’t understand regeneration, Mel. It’s a lottery, and I’ve drawn the short plank.” – Seventh Doctor
After Colin Bakers departure, the announcement came that Sylvester McCoy was to play the Seventh Doctor. To be frank that announcement alarmed me. I remembered him from my youth, goofing around on TISWAS, and also from his stage work (mainly introduced to me through turns he did for Amnesty in “The Secret Policeman’s Ball”). He could make me laugh, I knew, and was a gifted physical performer, but – The Doctor?!
Sylvester made his name in the Ken Campbell Roadshow. Campbell, strangely enough, was also up for the Seventh Doctor gig.
There was another issue as well. Presumably to keep some sense of continuity, Bonnie Langford was back as Mel. That was going to be a big drag factor. I therefore wasn’t in the best frame of mind to start watching Time and the Rani. As Colin wasn’t .. ahem .. available, the regeneration scene was conducted with Sylvester in a wig and the sixth Doctors costume. The story itself is a mess, enlivened by one thing. At one point Kate O’Mara as the Rani pretends to be Mel. Lord – it can make cringing watching but she absolutely demolishes Mels character. It’s unrelenting, as she turns everything I didn’t like about Bonnie Langford up to 11. There really was no way back after that. I commend Ms. O’Mara for producing such a viscous caricature.

The Doctors dress sense improved…My fears about the Doctor seemed to be realised. Pratfalls and spoonerisms/mixed up quotations were the order of the day as the series progressed through the largely forgettable Paradise Towers and Delta and the Bannermen. At the end of the series we entered Dragonfire. Suddenly though, with the exception of a dangling scene (which was repeated in “Name of the Doctor”), Sylvester didn’t seem to be goofing as much. On an ice planet the Doctor met a young girl from Earth who didn’t know how she got there (Ace) and, joyfully, Mel decided to leave the Doctor to travel the Universe with the disreputable Sabalom Glitz (Tony Selby). I rejoiced at the end of the series, and hoped Glitz would have the good sense to jettison Mel out of the nearest airlock once the credits had stopped rolling.
Between Season 24 & 25 my life changed, and I set of on an adventure of my own. On gaining the requisite grades at “A” Level I departed my homestead, found the bus station, and escaped to Yorkshire to study chemistry. I mention this because I did not have a TV while in halls. As the series was shown September – December my parents agreed to record the shows for me for my return. I am therefore not judging these shows as they were meant to be watched, but in rapid succession. I have no idea if they changed my impression of the show or not. On return from a term, I’d watch them at night after working as a combination shelf stacker/security guard for my Christmas job at “LiquorSave”. Sexy.
Things behind the scenes of the show had changed as well. A brace of new writers and new Script Editor, Andrew Cartmel. Legend has it he gave each of the writing team a copy of “The Ballad of Halo Jones” to digest, telling them it was this sort of storytelling he aspired to.
Doctor Who was 25 in 1988, and season 25 sought to exploit the anniversary just as the 50th does. Remembrance of the Daleks sees the Doctor and Ace return to Totters Lane as the Doctor has left something important behind – an ancient Gallifreyan artefact. I enjoyed the portrayal of the Daleks for the most, although that bloody civil war was interminable. Panto Davros was back, alas. The destruction of Skaro (alleged) was pretty stupid I thought. I loved the references to Quatermass and the general feel of the serial though. The following storyl The Happiness Patrol I had little patience with. Silver Nemesis (around the anniversary) saw another ancient Gallifreyan artefact with an attachment to the Doctor, and pretty piss-poor Cybermen. For the finale – The Greatest show in the Galaxy, where the Doctor confronts “The Gods of Rrrrrragnarock” in a psychic circus. I simultaneously found elements of these stories a bit laughable in execution, but they interested me in the concepts, and this version of the Doctor who seemed to have an agenda, and also occasional suspicion towards his assistant “Ace”. I have to admit, Sophie Aldred grated on me a bit, with her quirky “Professor!!!!” and ability to distil explosive from virtually anything, but there you go.
A year later and another catch-up session. The return of the Brigadier in Battlefield, with The Doctor as Merlin? Ghost Light I thought of a bit better than other people seem to, as The Doctor takes Ace to a house she burned down in her troubled past. I thought the Curse of Fenric very entertaining, as the reason that Ace had come to be with the Doctor was revealed. A pawn in a chess game between two powerful entities (Fenric and the Doctor). Survival isn’t the best story to finish on, but there were some real feelings of intelligence hidden under some inexpert execution. Both Sylvester and Anthony Ainley as “The Master” are pretty superb in their scenes together though.
Despite my reservations about Ace, I admired what they’d tried to do with the character. New viewers will see many aspects of the modern approach to companions in her story arc. A pretty troubled teen growing in confidence and confronting her demons with the Doctors help. She even ends up rescuing the mother she hates in the form of a small baby. The problem for me really was more presentation than concept. She was possibly the most well spoken teenage delinquent in the Galaxy – a bit hard to believe on occasion (which, to be fair, everyone in the production from writers to actors acknowledge and Sophie Aldred had no say in those choices).
Sylvester, as the “Face of the Doctor”, really grew on me after his first series. Again, there were a lot of duds in his era, but overall his performance pleasantly surprised me. Hints at a Machiavellian mind with an agenda of his own, counterbalanced by some odd behaviour (listening to cheese being a favourite of mine). People who think the modern Doctor relies too much on his sonic will be delighted to know this one doesn’t use one at all. He replaced it with an uncanny ability to talk his adversaries to death. I do think he gets some grief in some quarters because of the relative quality of the stories/production values, and just the fact that the show ended “on his watch”.
Because end it did. Tacked onto the last minutes of “Survival” was a monologue by the Doctor:
“There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea’s asleep, and the RIVERs dream; people made of smoke and cities made of SONG. Somewhere there’s danger, somewhere there’s injustice, and somewhere else the tea’s getting cold. Come on, Ace. We’ve got work to do.”
And that? Well. That was the end…………
29 June 2013 at 09:18 #12970Seventh month rapidly approaching – Seventh Doctor. Your thoughts, memories, clips and quips are required to discuss this chap. Mr Sylvester McCoy.

The AI report in his first year had this to say:
Sylvester McCoy was not proving to be a popular Doctor. He received a personal summary index figure of 46 at the end of the series, although it should be pointed out that this includes ratings from people who had decided to stop watching the programme. By the end of the third story in the series his personal rating had shown a steady – if not spectacular – improvement, rising from 44 at the end of the story entitled Time and the Rani (BARB Week 44) to 54 at the end of Delta and the Bannermen (BARB Week 47)
28 June 2013 at 23:26 #12966Does it reflect badly on me if I admit I wanted to punch his smug face in the moment he suggested Twin Dilemma was superior to Fires of Pompeii?
What the hell. I shall meet him on the field of battle in his desired Sixth doctor costume and crush his curly head into dust!
Thanks for the interview link, as I couldn’t locate it, and to @jimthefish for his views.
I think that era lacked any oversight at all. No-one higher than JNT gave a crap because it was the least of their problems. It’s probably in place these days with a network of writers acting as each others Script Editors. Guided by a voice who doesn’t have ultimate power, but at least is seen to be answerable to a network of involved interests. It really isn’t as precarious as once it was, because people like SM are answerable to interested parties internally at the BBC (the BBC1 controller, Head of Drama, etc) and BBC Worldwide (who co-ordinate the investment of BBC America resources). That is oversight and, unbelievably, Worldwide tend to side with Fan views (more, more, more). I think it’s gone from being an embarrassing problem to a problem of perception about allocation of resources in a public services broadcaster.
I think tomorrow will see the start of the Seventh Doctor. A difficult end, and the start of “THE GAP“.
That, Talons pt 3 and Blink – Who wouldn’t want that!?
28 June 2013 at 21:03 #12943I’m glad you got something from Trials and Tribulations. I have to admit that when I first saw it I was a bit agog. So much I had taken for granted seemed to be thrown into doubt.
Like you, I have no love for Eric Saward and admit I took for granted the fact that he “flounced” because he didn’t get his own way over the end of Trial of a Timelord. Watching it, I came away thinking how difficult it must have been to be placed in the position of writing with Robert Holmes while he was dying and the effect that had upon him. He was Sawards mentor at the BBC and there was more than a little bit of hero worship. It was just JNT’s spin delivered to his clique of fanboys to distribute about.
Loved the idea of a Matrix regeneration. Makes sense of the Second Doctors experience, which you could suggest took place in that arena.
@bluesqueakpip, I actually read the Starburst interview when it came out and agreed with much of it. Doesn’t make me like Eric more, but I question if he was in a fit state of mind to do that interview. The BBC was a different organisation then, and I can’t help but feel he would have had some support at that time if it was these days. The main thing I took away from it was the feeling this had become the fiefdom of JNT. His media manipulation must have seemed pretty clever about then, but retrospectively the BBC knew about it. They knew who was behind stories leaked to the press, and I think that “cold war” entrenched the view that the programme had become a problem. In a way it sealed its fate.
I admire the way RTD and SM have conducted themselves. Teasers both. Building expectations, but never playing favourites with press or fans. I laughed my head off at the report of the media premier of Torchwood where Russell clearly told Ian Levine to “Fuck off – you’re not a reporter and your questions aren’t about Torchwood”.
I suppose this may explain some of the gossip @danmartinuk mentioned surrounding the BFI showing of the “Two Doctors” to celebrate the Sixth Doctor. No Colin, No companions from the era. Just Frazer Hines, Tony Selby, visual effects designer Mike Kelt and ….. writer Eric Saward to discuss that reign. Here is the video to show of the conversation (not available on YouTube this month).
Must be time to bury some hatchets? That really was a ****ed up era.
28 June 2013 at 12:15 #12930As well as the Faces strand mentioned by @whisht, there is a memories strand which features (amongst others), a story about how I actually met my Doctor.
28 June 2013 at 12:11 #12929@danmartinuk has his next classic episode up for comment. It’s Talons of Weng Chiang, so for anyone watching it from new in our little experiment, SPOILERS!
27 June 2013 at 11:35 #12898Yes, the talking heads are pretty enthusiastic, as only people who are being paid to appear in a celebratory TV show can be 😉
In all seriousness, I think you have to look at the what they say and the way they say it really. The editor of Doctor Who Magazine isn’t really going to say something negative, because he doesn’t want to sour relationships. I can believe SM is going to say nice things about Colin in his Sixth Doctor retrospective as well.
As @bluesqueakpip said – he really does have fans though. If he was your Doctor growing up, you wouldn’t have anything to compare him against, and therefore he became your idea of what the Doctor is. The ones I tend to have arguments with are the ones who take the stand that he would have been great if only everything else had been different. I think (as those clips show) he has to take some responsibility for the direction he wanted to go in.
One “face to name” you may have missed in Trials was the rather earnest young man in glasses from the Liverpool Doctor Who society who was complaining about JNT. He grew up to be Chris Chibnall (Broadchurch, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, etc).
27 June 2013 at 11:21 #12897A bizarre little feature on Dan Starkey at a convention in the Guardian at the moment.
I must say, I do like the sound of some of his proposed follow-ups to the Songtaran Carols. Especially if it included War: What is it Good For? (Everything! It’s the basis of an entire civilisation!)
26 June 2013 at 10:56 #12876Alas, we near the end of June and the Sixth Doctor. When the most positive thing we can say is “it wasn’t ALL his fault”, that’s probably for the best. Just a couple of things in case you are interested. Here is Colin Bakers short segment from the Doctor Who at 40 celebration.
If you want a comprehensive look at the period, with contributions from the main key players – try Trials and Tribulations (Link to YouTube). At 55 mins it’s pretty comprehensive. You’ll see there was plenty of blame to pass around and the sheer scale of the problems that surrounded the show at the time. Warning – may contain Ian Levine.
I’ll probably take the opportunity to start talking about the Seventh Doctor at the weekend as I won’t be around for the first four days of July.
26 June 2013 at 10:48 #12875We may have to limit bad news on the Sofa if it’s going to kill the Forum like that. 😉 Sad news on both.
As I’m allergic to YouTube films of kittens doing something hilarious, have something else to lighten the atmosphere!
23 June 2013 at 13:38 #12813@craig (many thanks for finding this)
I’ve just watched that Confidential for the first time in full form since it was broadcast (the DVDs being cut down) and it really is entertaining. A great look at transferring the script to screen and the compromises of budget. Loved the confession from SM that he had a bit of a moment when he was told they couldn’t do the horse scene and some of the comments from RTD “ooooh that’s marvellous ….. marvellous …. and cheap.”
As I think we’ll be doing Blink next, I’ve just noticed the Confidential that went with it is on YouTube as well. That’s a great one for a Moff retrospective as it’s the David Tennant directed “Do You Remember the First Time” with David, SM and many others talking about growing up with Who. Something for next time.
22 June 2013 at 23:40 #12785I’ll have to rewatch Hide (doesn’t it seem a looong time ago now?), but that lack of consideration may play more into his relationship with Clara at the time. At this point, isn’t she really the mystery to unravel rather than a real person? If I get the chance, I’ll rewatch. I’m pretty sure there were a few examples of him not really taking her feelings into account (forcing her to explore the house when she didn’t want to for example) that seemed more to highlight how distant he was from her.
22 June 2013 at 23:15 #12783@stevethewhistle @steve-thorp
I’m not sure “love interest”, but you can see Litefoot is absolutely gobsmacked by her. I loved the Doctor delivering a cunning backstory for her “Found in a hatbox floating down the Amazon”.
I was going to mention, at the end of the series it would be interesting if those with the DVD could give any views on the special features on the release, if you are up for it. One of them is the Melvyn Bragg documentary “Whose Doctor Who”, which is an interesting period piece.
Back to the Eighties – The Horror! 😀
22 June 2013 at 23:00 #12782Yes, it’s interesting the differences in the dynamic. When I first saw GitF, I immediately thought that his interest in Reinette was almost in reaction to Mickey, or somehow trying to prove a point to Rose, but I decided on a rewatch shortly after that doesn’t really fit. There is an obvious attraction, perhaps fascination between them.
Hide though, I’m not sure. I think the Doctor is like many in that we know people, stars and planets live and die as a fact, but it tends to hit you harder when it’s people that you come to know. River’s line about “never let him see the damage” in AtM was a really good one in retrospect. Perhaps the letter and book entry by Reinette and Amy, finding out about the Bridadiers death make it real to him?
Good summary, and I wouldn’t be surprised at a return either.
22 June 2013 at 18:17 #12771Lots to love in this one, especially from Louise Jamieson. From being about to happily confirm she killed the Doctors would-be assailant to a Policeman, and into those great scenes with Trevor Baxter as Litefoot. A true Victorian gent, as he manfully picks up food with his hands to put his guest at ease. The other double act, Jago “The Rock of Gibraltar” and the Doctor are really funny as well.
The mysterious Weng Chiang seemed very spry as he negotiated backstage of the Palace considering he seemed at deaths door earlier, but what the hell. The mention by him of Time Agents is interesting in the context of the AG series. Jack was one, and River secured a time device from Dorium in Pandorica Opens, who mentioned it belonged to a “handsome young Time Agent”.
Back later.
-
AuthorPosts


