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27 July 2013 at 23:11 #14532
It’s an interesting one this one. I’ve read a couple of appraisals denouncing RTD as a “gay man who can’t write women”. The Case largely rests on Rose and Donna, who are listless in life and need a Timelord to fill a hole in their lives. They are aimless and need the Doctor to somehow complete them. Almost make the decision for them and be the misogynistic “
woman-hater he always was (you can probably see I have a couple of issues regarding this. )Martha is atypical in this scenario. But she had more in common with Amy in that she did not appear listless. Like Amy (and as a product of a heterosexual man who can’t write women) she has issues, and wonders whether they are the right choices, but they are still her choices, at the end.
For all Martha and Amy’s supposed “obsession” with the Doctor, they both reject him in the end. I still find it odd that sometimes, in TV, that really attractive people (like Amy/Mrs Phaseshift) will bond with someone who isn’t actually like them?! (Rory/Phaseshift). If we can’t understand that, then maybe that’s our problem?”
27 July 2013 at 20:06 #14517Welcome all, to the eighties. I don’t live in the past. There are glimmers of something great in almost each era of Who, but the relative quality of stories in the 80s did see some problems occurring. Ghost Light is untypical for the era, I think, and something different.
Watching this first episode reminds me of how I felt when first watching it. It’s largely studio bound, but that always helped early Who. Put the monsters and effects of the period into harsh sunlight (as many Baker II and McCoy stories did) and that harsh light revealed some uncomfortable truths – they really needed more money. Watching this episode I immediately thought “It’s gloomy – I’m missing things – THIS IS DOCTOR WHO!”.
I can’t remember which thread it was on now, but there was an argument made that the TARDIS being more controlled was a Moffat thing, and took away from the intent of the show. This episode (and indeed Talons before it) would seem to dispute that. Watch the sixth and seventh Doctor serials and they often go precisely to the point they wanted to. As in this one, when the Doctor takes Ace to confront an early fear and troubling event in her life.
Just a tangent into the last series, the Doctor reviewing young (and even pre-Clara birth) life seems to echo this. How did the Doctor know to bring Ace here, if he hadn’t done something similar in her case? How did he know about the red bike for young Rose for Christmas one year? For all the distaste about 11 examining the early life of a companion, maybe he takes the opportunity to do it more than once? The hints for this really start at this point though.
I love McCoys manipulative impatience in this episode. He has a goal here, and his frustration at her responses is palpable. The scenes regarding the “blasphemy” of the theory of Evolution were something I wasn’t familiar with at the time, and did prompt me to read up on that era.
So hurrah! Still an educational show!
@shazzbot – The music mix on DVD is much better, but the actual music itself is still pretty uninspired.
27 July 2013 at 17:57 #14513I think I agree with a growing consensus here that it’s not the best episode. I think there was a lot more attention to detail on the other 5 episodes that SM wrote in that fifth series.
Having said that, there is a lot to enjoy here. Ever since it was revealed that the Royal Family were closet fans of Who there have been cheeky republican digs at the Royal Family, and I can’t help thinking that Sophie Okonedo as Liz 10 may have caused some spluttering over the Port. It’s a great turn though, and she’s obviously having a ball.
In context, there were a hell of a lot of episodes in that series that seemed to resonate with real world events. Even to the extent that the football scene in The Lodger coincided with the England v USA World Cup match.
This was broadcast in the runup to our last election, and the satire of a restrictive choice in selection, possibly choosing the least awful option available (“forgetting”) was not lost on me. You could take it further and argue that the Smilers are the Political class – either benignly smiling at your “correct” life choices, or adopting a Daily Mail-esque snarl of distaste as your life choices disappointed them. It’s weirdly reminds me of the broad political satire of stories like The Sun Makers from the 70s – with much better production.
And it is a good point by @craig. The line about he considers his actions will mean he will need to use a different name is great foreshadowing. I think that needs to be added to the Girl in the Fireplace “The Doctor – it’s more than a name isn’t it”.
For all its faults – still really fun, and the scene with Amy outside the TARDIS embracing the stars is a beautiful one.
27 July 2013 at 11:32 #14495If that lot doesn’t fill your day, and you just need more opinion and discussion about the faces to date, can I recommend “Splendid Chaps” (this may appeal to @janetteb and our other Oz correspondents).
They are a series of free downloads celebrating the Doctors and all things Doctorish recorded at various venues around Australia. I’ve only heard of a couple of the contributors, but they are genuinely entertaining. They usually have a 35 minutes on a Doctor (up now to McCoy) and then a general discussion on a topic that covers the entire run (I’m waiting for the discussion on “Religion” that goes with the McCoy series to be uploaded next week).
If you fancy trying one, have a go at Four/Comedy which was recorded at the Melbourne Comedy festival, or Six/Clothes.
All are pretty good though, and @jimthefish and other fans of novelisations may find the special on “Who and Books” as fascinating as I did.
27 July 2013 at 11:30 #14494It’s funny that when the BBC is faced with a technology innovation, the Doctor is often wheeled out to help them, even if he’s not particularly popular “in-house” at the time.
The spearhead releases of content on VHS and DVD formats were Doctor heavy, and in 2001 when the BBC was addressing this “internet thingy” and wondering what to do with it, a rejected pilot from Radio 4 was picked up and turned into the first Web Cast series by BBCi. Step back into the fray Mr. McCoy.
Death comes to Time is a bit of a curio. The audio work is great, the animation based on the art of Lee Sullivan more than a little basic and reflects internet capacities of the time.
As well as McCoy you have Sophie Aldred as Ace, Nicholas Courtney turns up as the Brig, and names like Kevin Eldon, Jon Culshaw, Jaqueline Pearce, Stephen Fry, John Sessions and Anthony Head all contribute.
The first episode (At the Temple of the Fourth, 27mins) is embedded, links below for the other 4 parts (of varying length).
Part 2: Planet of Blood (36 minutes)
Part 3: The Child (31 minutes)
Part 4: No Child of Earth (38 minutes)
Part 5: Death Comes to Time (44 minutes)26 July 2013 at 00:14 #14409Perhaps we could go black and white after Ghost Light and Androzani?
It’s interesting that one because your question made me think of the timings in the lead up to the 50th. I’m really happy with Ghost Light for the seventh and Androzani is perfect for five (and features as much of six as I’m now willing to watch without safety gear and hard narcotics).
If we want to continue after that it would be nice to find some relatively short Pertwee, Troughton and Hartnell stories in the lead up to the 50th. GL and CoA take us to 7th September. A Terror of the Autons (or equivalent at 4 eps) until 5th October. A Tomb of the Cybermen (or equivalent at 4 eps) until 2nd November. We could take a week off and watch the first episode – Unearthly Child the week before the 50th, which would be nice.
I know it’s racing ahead but I think it’s worth bearing the potential timings in mind.
25 July 2013 at 15:15 #14374@danmartinuk has his next Guardian blog up for “Earthshock”. I’ve just enjoyed celebrating Adric’s demise.
24 July 2013 at 23:09 #14360Thanks for that. It would be interesting to know if they were influenced by a chap called Leo Baxendale with that. You’re probably too young to remember him, but I think he was named as a big influence on Viz in “Comics Britannia” on BBC4.
He created Minnie the Minx for the Beano and I Love You Baby Basil! for The Guardian, and produced his own independent stuff. One of his Badtime Bedtime series was “Doctor Poo”. Shame his stuff hasn’t been reprinted in large scale as it’s rarer than rocking horse crap these days. I still have some, but the issue of “Doctor Poo” is missing.
24 July 2013 at 22:33 #14357It’s not a problem really. Just a warning beforehand. I think when we set up we agreed any potential material like that should be marked “Not suitable for Work!” or suchlike. Saves some red faces. 😀
24 July 2013 at 18:13 #14347and now, for one night only…
Ha – that does sound like RTD. Alternatively, he was the Face of the Doctor for 9 long years in alternative media (and some may argue continues to be the Doctor). Like Sylvester (show cancelled on his watch/kept the show alive while cancelled), he exists in two states simultaneously!
I’m hoping to have a couple of goodies for August.
24 July 2013 at 18:11 #14345Yes – I’ve always thought it was better to have one topic which may stop and start on occasion than what would be seven topics which would probably never restart. People can back and forth in whichever way they feel.
Having a Doctor a month has kept the thread something to develop in the long months but I don’t think it prevents anyone chipping in. The main problem in that relatively few people may actually remember some of these periods. We may see more comments coming forth in September when we reach the AG years, and Christopher Ecclestone.
24 July 2013 at 18:08 #14344Just a note, because I said I would. DVD extras – what do you get if you purchase the DVD?
Well that depends! I have the original double disc version released in 03. I think others may have the version from the Revisitations box set which I believe is a 3 disc version with lots of bells and whistles + remastered vision and sound. If anyone with the newer version wants to give their view please do so.
The commentary on mine is a bit of a laugh, with Louise Jamieson, Philip Hinchcliffe (Producer), David Maloney (Director), John Bennett (Chang) and Christopher Benjamin (Jago) reminiscing. It’s not really a “go to” more than once though.
There is a series of Blue Peter clips from the era discussing the show, and about 25 minutes of really poor quality footage from the shooting. An interview from Pebble Mill with Philip Hinchcliffe probably reveals all the showrunners were expected to get in front of the camera now and then, even at this early age, and there are a some Trailers and continuity announcements from the episodes.
The most interesting thing is “Whose Doctor Who”, an hour long documentary from the BBC’s “Lively Arts” strand fronted by Lord Melvyn of Barg. It’s one of the first serious looks at the series and is quite a nice little time capsule. It features interviews and behind the scenes work on Talons, and much hilarity it to be had. I found the following oddity posted on YouTube. “The Directors cut” is about 2 1/2 minutes long and contains re-edited scenes and “sound alike” dubbing.
It probably proves that some people have far too much time on their hands:
24 July 2013 at 18:06 #14343I’d be up for Caves of Androzani or Ghost Light myself. I can see one advantage for Androzani in that it’s in the Revisitations Box set that a few people have purchased. The drawback is that it’s another one that is largely seen as “one of the best”, also by Robert Holmes, and also features another crazy man in a mask. 😉
Ghost Light gets more mixed reviews and I agree that some of the emerging seeds of AG Who are there to be seen.
As the Movie is not episodic, I may just put a link to where it can be found to view on the Faces stand next month and suggest people comment there if they want to revisit it. Personally, I think there are certain elements of it that have also been carried into AG Who, so having Ghost Light and Movie available to consider simultaneously may be an interesting couple of conversations.
24 July 2013 at 13:05 #14325I honestly think that splitting the topic in the way you suggest won’t make a blind bit of difference to relative uptake. I’ve repeated myself on a few pages that people new, or just joining the conversation are free to make comments and discuss Doctors already covered. That advice remains, and if the topic becomes a lot busier then I would split it, streaming the content into relevant topics.
If people don’t like this format, an alternative is already available in @htpbdet s individual posts on each Doctor to date, and they are free to discuss the merits of individual Doctors on those if they prefer the kind of individual topics you suggest. They can be accessed in The Doctors blog page here.
Next month, because observations on the Paul McGann era are likely to be limited, I had hoped to pick up a couple of emerging themes on how people viewed the Doctor before the return of the show. This is obviously easier in a consolidated topic which contains all the relevant posts. That is one of the advantages of this particular format, especially when comparing or contrasting two or more Doctors.
23 July 2013 at 23:37 #14312But all the same, doesn’t this sort of huffing and puffing have a distinct element of Arse to it?
Yeah – it does a bit.
I can’t get over-excited about 2000 fans seeing a trailer in America for an event that will be broadcast first in the UK. I can easily understand why Worldwide want to promote the show in the US – it has crested an wave of interest in the last few years that is unheard of really, and they are throwing a lot of money at it themselves, which doesn’t derive from the licence fee. As co-funders I can see the argument that they should a least have a couple of exclusives (and this is very exclusive people wise) in their own territory.
I’m with @scaryb in that you’d think that fans would be delighted that over a three day event with lots of major shows in attendance, and with massive films (Superman v Batman) being announced, the most internet column inches written and a major source of excitement would be their favourite show. They seem to prefer it small, provincial, and probably doomed to failure.
As you wrote – pure ARSE.
23 July 2013 at 23:33 #14311@blenkinsopthebrave – splendid to see you back with us, even if it is in brief stops in Club Lounge.
You’ve reminded me that next month is Paul McGann month, and I really need to organise my thoughts. I hope you, @janetteb and others will dip in.
Thanks for all the Comic Con links. A central resource for the Who deprived!
23 July 2013 at 23:30 #14310Finally managed to catch up with this episode. I’ll just refer people to @bluesqueakpip s excellent blogpost again.
I’ll confess over series 5 and 6 I probably watched this more than was healthy, looking at scenes other people referenced in theories etc. It was actually a minor joy to go back to it after the Amy storyline has finished and just watch it for pure entertainment and remember how it made me feel on first viewing.
It’s certainly the best first episode for a Doctor I’ve seen, and it’s amazingly confident. The scenes with young Amelia are a delight. I can still pinpoint when my reservations about the youngest Doctor in history evaporated and I settled back to enjoy the show:
Amelia: “I’m not scared.”
The Doctor: “‘Course you’re not! You’re not afraid of anything. Box falls out of the sky, man falls out of the box, man eats fish custard. And look at you, just sitting there. So you know what I think.”
Amelia: “What?”
The Doctor: “Must be a hell of a scary crack in your wall.”To me, that exchange just felt like the Doctor talking. Over the next sixty odd minutes (and I’ll echo @scaryb here – that extra time let the episode breathe a little – It would have been interesting to see some episodes from series 7 be given the same treatment) Smith does an astonishing job in bouncing off new characters. It’s every bit as important as Rose to me, in that it shows this wasn’t a one-trick pony. No carryover from the last series, just extrapolation of ideas given a new spin with polished direction.
It really is a great episode, and I hope 12 gets similar good fortune to begin with.
As no-one has posted it yet, for your entertainment is the confidential for the episode “Call me the Doctor”.
20 July 2013 at 19:11 #14214Saddened by the news that Mel Smith has died. I adored Not the Nine O’Clock News and Alas Smith and Jones when growing up. Article in the Guardian and a life in clips piece, which doesn’t feature this one (bit of a line running through it, but the audio is great for a VHS rip) as Mel delivers his take on Sinatra.
20 July 2013 at 19:08 #14213Magnus Greel – the notorious “Butcher of Brisbane”. Love the discussion over the chess board, although Greel does feel OTT compared to Chang. If you could see his eyes they’d be rolling all over the place.
Leela taunting of him over begging for mercy even as she faces his distillation apparatus is great. What a character. Mr. Sin’s bloodlust in the heat of battle as he cheerfully even kills allies was quite shocking as he grunts and oinks with delight.
2012 saw a timey-wimey prequel/sequel in the audio universe as the Fifth Doctor, Tegan, Nyssa and Turlough encounter a younger Greel in the 51st century when the Filopeno Army was marching. It’s quite fun, and seems to indicate that the mysterious Time Agent Greel mentions earlier in the episode is the Doctor’s next incarnation. A link to the story “The Butcher of Brisbane” on Big Finish. As @shazzbot mentioned they also do the Jago and Litefoot adventures.
20 July 2013 at 00:49 #14173Matthew Wright turned his back on Who before series 6. Twat.
To be fair, I can imagine Matthew being a bit confused by series 5. In fact, I can easily imagine Matthew being confused when tying his own shoelaces, or when debating with himself which is the right way up to sit on a lavatory.
Still, “Time for Doctor Who to take a rest?” asks commercial competitor really isn’t a debate that will trouble the BBC is it?
Loving the TAR-DRESS that Jenny is wearing though.
14 July 2013 at 16:04 #13875Somewhat inevitably the BBC are holding the televised footage from the Prom back for a showing around the anniversary itself.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23285358
There is also a pretty sneery review on the Guardian (of the music, if not the event).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jul/14/doctor-who-prom-review
14 July 2013 at 15:38 #13869One thing about viewing these episodes like this is they they have made me watch some old episodes from the period the G blogs didn’t exist. After the SM retrospective, the 50th and the Christmas special it might be interesting to fill in some of the episode gaps from Series one to five in a number of runs somehow, either by continuing to focus on writers, or maybe distinct arcs.
Jumpting ahead a bit, I know, but any thoughts?
14 July 2013 at 15:08 #13867Amy isn’t always meant to be likeable on screen, her first reaction is often defensive, but her heart’s in the right place. she’s a “nippy sweetie” as we say in these parts
A great description. There are plenty of people like Amy (some would say I live with one – not me obviously, she packs a wicked punch 😀 ), and they can be drawn to people who aren’t like them at all. Some good solid relationships can be built around opposites attracting, and they help knock the rough edges off each other.
It’s enough to turn any teenager’s head. But the point of it was that it wasn’t reciprocated and she grows out of it, and into real life instead.
Yes, so much was made in comments about a supposed “love triangle” between Amy, Rory and The Doctor in comments even into series 7, but it was never there on screen. It’s made pretty clear the Doctor always views her as the child he met.
14 July 2013 at 14:10 #13852I saw nothing that said to me that the Amy/Rory stories played out over as much as 5 years of their lives
Are we ignoring young Amelia in Eleventh Hour, or the retrospective views of Young Amelia and Young Rory in Let’s Kill Hitler or can the decades line stand? 😉
14 July 2013 at 12:55 #13833@nick @shazzbot (mention to @jimthefish)
should I conclude I’m watching the wrong show ?
I think that’s only a conclusion you can make yourself. I do think it is a mistake IF (and this I’m posing as a question) you consider the level of analysis that goes on this site is somehow necessary to understand or get something from the relationship.
That’s not true. I think there are plenty of casual viewers for who the relationships worked, just as there are some for which it didn’t. It is a different approach from what went beforehand but maybe that is a necessary trait for the show to ensure renewal and survival.
For me the attraction was a big sprawling story that crossed decades in the case of Amy and Rory, and centuries in the case of the Doctor. It’s also full of things we have never seen before in the most mundane way. The first companion who is seen to engage with the Doctor as a child, the first married couple in the TARDIS, the first Child of that Union.
These aspects were enough to get me engaged and rewatch this run probably more than is healthy, with the added attraction of the puzzle elements. Hence why I say rewatches are rewarding. That’s because people are puzzles to.
Clara: “Then what are we? What can we possibly be?”
The Doctor: “You are the only mystery worth solving.”So while some people say the divorce was just too sudden, from the perspective of a friend I think I’ve witnessed five couple break-ups. Two were noisy, boisterous affairs in which they became inevitable (and something of a relief). The other three came as a complete surprise. It’s only when you look back you begin to see “clues” that you should have spotted earlier that you could have picked up on. For me, that is quite an honest bit of storytelling if you approach it from that “friends” perspective.
As @jimthefish said, I don’t think we’ve seen something like the Amy & Rory story before, and I don’t think it will happen again. The broad sweep of Series 7 has been the Doctors disengagement from his friends and seeing his new companion as a puzzle in the wrong way.
If you didn’t have that engagement with them, I don’t think any amount of analysis will help you appreciate them more, but it may help you understand why I did.
13 July 2013 at 23:14 #13817That middle segment sounded fascinating @wolfweed, but I had urgent business in the “Little Masters room”. Luckily my PVR records the radio channels and I’ll listen tomorrow.
I’ve got a bit of a tin ear on music references I must admit, but have come to trust MrsP. I shall inform her she has won support for her theory, however. She will be both delighted and very smug. 😀
Maybe the Neptune rip is a clue…
I think that sounds a bit fishy to me. (Badum – Tish) Unfortunately, yes, I am here all week. Try the fi… D’OH!
13 July 2013 at 22:35 #13811I also love River’s end monologue which echoes the “everyone lives” sentiment of Doctor Dances.
When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can’t run forever. Everybody knows that everybody dies. And nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever, for one moment, accepts it.
Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day. Not today.
Some days are special. Some days are so so blessed. Some days nobody dies at all. Now and then, every once in a very long while—every day in a million days when the wind stands fair and the Doctor comes to call—everybody lives.
Have this weeks confidential:
13 July 2013 at 22:25 #13810I wasn’t that sure about Song for 50, but the second half was quite the nostalgia fest. I do hope they keep Davison’s intro in the televised version. It sounds as if he’s as keen on the “classic” label as we are. 🙂 Go BG and AG my man. He was on cracking form though.
Mrs Phaseshift, who is more of a muso than an old Doctor Who fan is convinced that a lot of the later medley of classic who music (around the sixth and seventh Doctor) is based on Neptune – “The Magician” from The Planets suite.
I thought it a bit strange that the cast kept coming on and introducing themselves “Hello – My name’s Matt Smith, and I play the Doctor”, until I suddenly thought that was probably for the benefit of normal Radio 3 listeners who were probably spluttering their Ovaltine crying “What is this nonsense – where’s Wagner!”.
13 July 2013 at 20:36 #13792Oooh 20 minute break in the Prom. Already had a couple of “moments”, one with the final chapter of Amelia Pond, laughed at Vastra and Strax hosting, and said a little prayer for the sanity of @chickenelly if they are listening because of the Rings of Akhaten sequence at the end of the first half (I enjoyed).
This should look great on screen.
13 July 2013 at 19:12 #13784I think the one thing I take from this is that it’s an early showcase for how SM would subvert the structure of a Doctor Who finale.
In the RTD era we kind of new where we were. At the end of the penultimate episode we’d be confronted with THE ENEMY – Daleks, Cybermen + Daleks, Master, Davros and Daleks, Master again. We knew what to expect in the final episode.
The start scenes of Donna’s bizarrely normal virtual life really throw you, and do foreshadow the kind of rug-pulling that went on in his final episodes in Series 5, 6 & 7. Could anyone predict the content of The Big Bang, Wedding of River Song and Name of the Doctor before seeing them?
There is that sense of playing with the perception of time as well:
Dr. Moon: “You’ve done so much in seven years, Donna.”
Donna: “Sometimes it feels more like seventy. Mind you sometimes it feels like no time at all.”Lots of the River foreshadowing as well.
The Doctor: “Why would I do that?” (About giving River his screwdriver).
River: “I didn’t pluck it from your cold dead hands if that’s what you’re worried about.”I did feel sorry for Donna. Thinking she’d imagined the perfect man, and he was quite real and looking for her as well.
I’ve written before that River’s fate (uploaded to CAL to continue her life) mirrors the fate of dead Time Lords (brain patterns uploaded to the Matrix computer on Gallifrey). Perhaps another foreshadowing of her semi-Time Lord biology.
I think I’ve been critical of some two parters in the past. I don’t think this will ever be one of them. It takes the story in an unexpected direction, builds on the tension of the previous episode and delivers an end that is laced with speculative questions about who the hell River is/was. Pretty fab. With shambling space suit Zombies – which is always a bonus.
I can’t believe we’ll be delving into SMs showrunner era next! The Eleventh Hour. An episode I’ve probably watched too many times. I think I may not be alone there.
13 July 2013 at 18:36 #13782I’ll just post a reminder for the Doctor Who Prom on Radio 3 at 7:30pm. It is being recorded for broadcast in the future on BBC One (TBA) but that will be a cut down version. If you are in the UK a radio, a freeview box (Channel 703) or the internet link to live channel
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_three
is Available. That last option works in many outside UK territories (If not Google may reveal some legitimate internet radio broadcast hosts for your area).
13 July 2013 at 18:16 #13781seeing as Weng-Chiang comes from the future, perhaps he should have thought of getting a bum-bag to carry the Key to the Time-Cabinet around
I may be misremembering, but were they not outlawed under Subsection 675 (4.1.4.B) of the Nu-Geneva convention of 3166 as a “fashion disaster likely to cause global warfare”? 😀
The reveal of Mr. Sin’s semi-porcine nature is really interesting. I think someone argued on the Girl in the Fireplace thread that integrating human parts in machines was unbelievable, but it is established here (for the same time period). To me it always seemed like the extrapolation of a Cyborg (human adopting machine parts becomes an intelligent machine adopting human parts) and no more unbelievable. As @craig puts it “technology running on wet-ware”.
13 July 2013 at 18:04 #13778Ahh…the dialogue is fantastic in this one, as the worlds of Jago and Litefoot crash together in a fan pleasing way.
The Doctor and Leela relationship is special to me. I think she remains firmly my number one BG companion because it happened at an age when I was seven. Leela was direct in a way that we children were, and with that great curiosity and occasionally getting things wrong that we did as well. She was so easy to relate to. At that age, the sexual attraction thing and her normal costume didn’t matter. She was hilarious and always spoiling for a rumble “We must prepare to do battle with this underground crab!”. She was really knowing though, as “You ask me so you can tell me” reveals.
It was fun playing along with the Chang is dead thoughts last week. As a kid, I didn’t expect him to return and so for this experiment I remembered how I felt. A bit shortchanged to be honest, and Bennett is brilliant in his little scene here. Compare the over the top fiend of “Weng Chiang” to Bennett’s dying Chang and I hope you understand why I forgive the “Yellow face” thing completely. Chang is so more nuanced. Doctor Who has occasionally played with references to “made up” drugs to talk about the issue, but to see opium use dealt with so casually is very jarring to the modern eye.
I remember being convinced as a kid (for some reason) that Weng-Chiang would look like a skeleton under his mask (I was probably thinking about the earlier “Master” story) so when Leela ripped his mask off to reveal that melted face I was absolutely horrified (while loving every second of it). Glorious stuff.
13 July 2013 at 14:42 #13759That looks rather spiffy from the air, doesn’t it? Delighted to see Yorkshire doing its bit to celebrate the man who gave us the Yorkshire Pudding (come on – advanced alien from an enlightened society? Where else was he going to go to create a signature dish). 🙂
13 July 2013 at 14:32 #13756I’m glad you and the family enjoyed it. When I watched it, I was surprised by the Juliet Bravo clip. I’d seen it before and never realised it was him. I agree on his appearance in SJA as well. You could tell he was not in the best of health, but he obviously relished a chance to be the Brig again.
I did like the way they handled his death within the show itself. I thought Smith delivered that scene as he receives the news of the Brigs death as a real hammer blow. I’m also glad they decided to bring in his daughter Kate from the spin-off media to continue to proud tradition of Lethbridge-Stewarts.
I’d love to see Web of Fear in its entirety, but at least I’ve got the restored soundtrack on CD, which are a remarkable thing themselves. Pat Troughton and Nicholas Courtney have such expressive voices I can picture their faces and expressions from just the audio. It’s remarkable to get that level of characterisation from voice work from a visual medium, when some audio drama specifically recorded for that purpose struggles.
13 July 2013 at 01:12 #13735Enjoyed your choices for episode tracks and apologise for not joining in. I’ve seen so many fan videos cut to music, I find myself automatically thinking about them!
Here’s one though, for A Good Man Goes to War. This is War.
Also, I watched the series finale for a programme called Warehouse 13 tonight (fun enough fluff) and it featured a track by a band I’ve never been particularly drawn to, but I really enjoyed it (and worked well in context). Florence and the Machine – No light, no light.
Posted in link form, for you to enjoy.
12 July 2013 at 22:29 #13720As well as the end of Ainley, the Seventh Doctor period also saw the last appearance in the regular main show of the Brigadier in Battlefield.
Nicholas Courtney always seemed a “Splendid chap”. Shortly before his death he started to record a long interview with his friend Mark McManus, which unfortunately was never completed. This is what remains though, talking about his life and his work with Who and beyond. Some nice clips, and Tom Baker drops in for a chat. (Colin gets a bemused look in a corridor). It’s about 27 minutes long.
12 July 2013 at 22:27 #13719Indeed, I don’t discount anyone’s view about Ainley generally. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion – and I am entitled to not share it
I would never suggest anything otherwise – indeed, I indicated my lack of interest in changing your mind. I think the conversation just presents an alternative view than that you presented back here (if you are looking for the comment). I can edit it if you wish, but I think you’ve clarified your position.
Personally, Simm (an actor I rate highly) didn’t seem comfortable in the role at all. It all seemed a little forced.
12 July 2013 at 20:43 #13714Who wouldn’t want Hodgins job? Competing for “King of the Lab” and conducting such vital research as “what happens when you throw a whole frozen pig into a woodchipper”? A dream job for the enquiring mind (it’s shown on a couple of channels in the UK).
12 July 2013 at 19:50 #13709I don’t know if you’ve seen the sketch I posted at the end of my post on Peter Davison (Walliams and Gatiss kidnap him) but it’s worth a look. The role of “odd fanboy” in Cruise mustn’t have been a stretch, because he is one. 😀
http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/the-faces-of-the-doctor/page/2/#post-7414By the way – are you a Scientist? I’m a Chemist originally, and it’s always a pleasure to welcome a Scientist of the mad persuasion.
12 July 2013 at 19:15 #13708I’m not sure I’d agree with the assertion that the Pond divorce sub plot is unsatisfying. Its ‘suddenness’ is part of the point, I think. It’s sudden for the Doctor, and therefore the audience.
I entirely agree with this. I was someone who lamented the fact that more wasn’t made of the Melody storyline in the second half of Series 6. Watching them back with knowledge of “Asylum” it struck me that may have been the point though. Amy and Rory aren’t really talking about a big issue, even as storylines that highlight parental estrangement from children (like “Night Terrors”) go on around them.
There are many examples of a slight distance between them in Night Terrors, The Girl Who Waited and God Complex where Rory is seen to be more than willing not to follow Amy like a puppy as he did in the first half of the series. The brief glimpse of them in Closing Time sees Rory tailing his now famous wife laden down with bags.
Moffat likes playing with the cause and effect of narrative. In Asylum you see the result and the reason, but when you rewatch you begin to suspect that some subtle clues that all was not well were laid down beforehand.
Personally, I think the Doctor, Amy and Rory dynamic was a triumph. An involved story that rewards rewatches and contains a hell of a lot of subtlety.
12 July 2013 at 18:46 #13705Let alone retconning their entire species into Krull like creatures inside robot suits
They’ve always lived in suits; those suits have always contained micro circuitry. See the forthcoming DVD release of “The Ice Warriors” for more information.
If you can present some evidence for this assertion of “retconning” in long post form, you’ll get a discussion. Lazy assertions do not “win” or provoke debate on this forum.
12 July 2013 at 16:45 #13700Did you pick that Cruise of the Gods clip because the still shows James Corden
Entirely coincidental, otherwise I’d claim David Walliams (Gibbis in The God Complex) in the foreground.
My 1st thought was about all the cruise ship disaster stories that have been in the news this year, followed closely by Voyage of the Damned (Xmas special ’07).
Here’s hoping “Doctor Who and the Cruise of Doom” isn’t about to be played out in real life!
12 July 2013 at 16:02 #13695As long as the B.5 cruise comes out victorious..
In Valen’s name, how could it be otherwise!?
Bruce Boxleitner would have told them to “Get the Hell out of our Waterways” and Shatner would have recognised true authority when he saw it. 😀
I’ll join the love for the Avatar by the way.
12 July 2013 at 15:16 #13688It’s worth checking out. It has it’s moments and it’s take on organised fandom ia particularly well observed, while not being overly “sneering” at the very concept. You can pick up the DVD for low price as it’s been on for a while (I saw it in Morrisons for about £3.99.
Here is a clip:
I can remember in the 90s cruises seemed massive business. I was amazed there were never any collisions between fan cruises because they seemed to be all over the place. 😀
12 July 2013 at 14:38 #13682Oooooohhhhh. That really is quite horrible. Enough to make your eyes bleed.
For some reason, on the cruise idea, my immediate thought was “Cruise of the Gods” – anyone remember that one?
11 July 2013 at 23:55 #13661Good analysis by you, I think. The “snapshot” analogy certainly works for me. I wrote a while ago that RTDs run can be characterised to a certain extent by the family, and SMs more on the family you make – friends. You can have friends you spend a lot of time with, and then go through periods of infrequent contact and back again. It’s noticable how much more seems to change in their lives during periods of infrequent contact. 🙂
We’ve got a similar thing with Clara: the Eleventh clearly likes taking snapshots (quite literally, in Hide). He wants to check her out: he jumps from her parents meeting, to first date, to the baby Clara, to her childhood, to her mother’s death.
It’s interesting that Clara has just got her “snapshots” of the Doctor. I think this is where I diverge from people who seem to think that because she had access to his time tunnel, she knows him pretty completely. What she says is:
Sometimes it’s like I’ve lived a thousand lives in a thousand places. I’m born, I live, I die. And always, there’s the Doctor.
So a thousand lives, a thousand potential random meetings. If they were all as long as a day, that’s accumulated time of less than three years. In a life as long as the Doctor, that’s all she really has – snapshots.
11 July 2013 at 15:13 #13628@danmartinuk has his next BG Episode up for comment – it’s his final Tom Baker selection in “City of Death”.
11 July 2013 at 12:37 #13619Many thanks @wolfweed, I look forward to reading it!
11 July 2013 at 12:33 #13618I’ve just edited your post and inserted the text “Pandorica suite” in between the > and /a(surrounded by less than/more than symbols). A link needs target text to appear (it’s easier to highlight text you already types, select the link button, and then create the link around it.
There is a small guide to using WordPress here:
http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/website-help/using-the-doctor-who-forum/
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