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23 August 2014 at 12:52 #29941Craig @craigEmperor
And we’re back. New series. New Doctor. A Scottish Doctor (yay!). A darker Doctor.
The Doctor crash lands in Victorian London and finds a giant T Rex rampaging in the Thames. Totally confused following his regeneration, the Doctor’s relationship with Clara is stretched to breaking point.
They are soon drawn into the heart of a terrifying, and yet somewhat familiar, alien plan. Can Clara accept this abrupt, older-looking Doctor? Can the millions of fans?23 August 2014 at 21:12 #29985
Are we aloud to disscuss the episode yet or has it still to air elsewhere first23 August 2014 at 21:20 #29986Zelah10 @zelah10
Oh, I’m so disappointed. Been looking forward to this for months… but what a load of rubbish. Plot made no sense…. new doctor’s behaviour irritating… gutted 🙁23 August 2014 at 21:30 #29987Miapatrick @miapatrick
just a quick reaction- using my boyfriends iPhone because Internet not working. I never had a problem with Clara, but she is even better here. brief Capaldi doing smith before the new personality bedded in. he looks like the character from Pompeii because he’s trying to tell himself something? his ‘sorry sorry’ to the dinosaur was more moving to me than all of tens apologies. quibble: if thought eleven though he wouldn’t regenerate. I know the doctor lies, but….
i liked it, I liked that we didn’t see if the cyborg fell or was pushed, the ref to Moffat written episode. some of the special effects seemed a little shonkey, but we are spoilt these days…23 August 2014 at 21:36 #29988
It wasn’t exactly your traditional who episode no, but is felt it was actually very good it dealt with an issue that needed to be got out of the way, and I’m not saying any more on that for now just in case there are ppl who discussing it will mean massive spoilers but the surprise guest was a brilliant touch. And a teaser of a new thread to come in a sense and a question posed oh I see fun times ahead.23 August 2014 at 21:44 #29989ABXY @abxy
I loved everything about this episode! 😀 I loved how we not only saw the new Doctor, but a different side to Clara and the Paternoster Gang getting an upgrade! I’m still on a Jelly Baby and excitement induced high, so I’ll elaborate later/tomorrow, but WOW! 😀23 August 2014 at 21:47 #29990
Oh dear!!. what a load of rubbish. the plot was crap. the grand moff moffatt has lost it i think. didnt like the setting or the boring return of the forgettable jenny, vastra and sontaran. The dinosaur stuff was derivative and boring (a redundant plotline that went nowhere). The whole thing was a sorry excuse in getting us to accept the new ‘old” doctor, by guilting us into accepting him with the whole Vastra clara chat about the removal of the vale. really clever stuff grand moff moffatt you almost convinced me (not). It was so padded too and deathly dull in places. Whoever paid money to watch that at the cinema must be kicking themselves now. What about Capaldi himself, well he’s a good actor and its a descent Pertwee/Hartnell impression (even the clothing is a cross between the two, maybe emphasising the Pertwee look made modern. I didnt like the scottish accent, it’s not the doctor ( i know all planets have a north, but really, i mean really !!!!, why didnt he have a dalek accent or a bloody dinosaur accent !!). He’s the doctor and really he’s an englishman eccentric abroad is suppose. Modern audiences need the dashing young man (its what they want, even matt smith had trouble after tennant). Tennant being the epitomy of the dashing young man (with a timelords mind). The audience wants young and vibrant doctors and they wont be guilted into accepting the old man (what does regeneration mean literally?).
The story itself didnt help with the retread of the madame pompadour story which was crap in tennants time. Did the doctor throw the android off the escape pod. (no, the droid commited suicide, another writerly way of throwing suspicion on the “character” of the new doctor and making him appear dark, when of course he is not).
Clara was ok and the way the capdoc (capaldis new doctor) interacted with her was ok. i liked the surprise phonecall at the end. but all this really did was highlight what we have lost and what we have now got. via direct comparison (with old and young). The capdoc has got a lot of work to do to convince the masses. i’m not convinced and feel that the grand moff is past his prime (not that he really was that great anyway, badly serving matt smith in his tenure in my opinion).
New ideas and new stories are needed and badly or its over for new who. oh and its time for a propper regeneration. The capdoc dosnt fit. sorry its not going to work. I can see already where the grand moff is going with this. On the surface this old doc appears darker, but of course he will be the softest of them all and try to be good to all the races he has wronged in the past and put right what he feels are the wrongs of his past selves.
We like heroes, we dont like priest like zealots preaching and boring us to death with inadventure and cultural awareness (we have other channels for that).
Were the opening credits an homage to the invasion of time?.23 August 2014 at 21:47 #29991Littlemess @littlemess
I absolutely loved it. I felt it was like moffat was trying to ease our own transition from one doctor to the other through this episode. Now was it me, or did I see right when the doctor took off his mask? didn’t it appear to you as well like if for a second the face he took off was of matt smith? it was like what madame vastra had said that when the doctor regenerated he took off his mask. I will need to recheck it.
and there are so many questions I have, when the doctor was talking to the cyborg and his own face reflected in the tray on the other side. it was like the doctor was telling that to himself and then he spoke about ending…. that got me worried.
am i giving out too much here? cause i am new to forums and I don’t want to spoil anything.23 August 2014 at 21:48 #29992SaraImpossible @saraimpossible
Hi! I’m new so apologies for the stupid question :/ but what did you think about the theme tune, the beginning?! I know that it’s hardly what I should be fixating on right now but I’m afraid I’m still in shock with the rest of the episode that if I open my mouth a load of spoilers will come out 🙂23 August 2014 at 21:54 #29993
Theme tune is an 80’s throwback. Do they have to change it every five minutes. It seems like every series it has to be “renewed’ unlike the doctor himself. I mean the classic Tom baker lasted for years without every musician at the bbc wanting to alter it. (i’m sure they did but it was fine). The tardis interior has changed so many times too lately, spend the money on some new writers. remember the grand moff said himself “we want narnia not the cupboard”.23 August 2014 at 21:54 #29994
No it isn’t a stupid question I actually thought the change in the title credits were actually awesome. A new doctor a new title sequence and brilliantly different but the similar at the same time.23 August 2014 at 21:55 #29995Littlemess @littlemess
hi SaraImpossible, 🙂 well i found the visuals quite weird and completely different from what we’re used to but I say why not? It seems the producers are working really hard to help us accept the doctor’s new face that they made sure we had nothing to attach ourselves to XD. but personally I like change.23 August 2014 at 22:07 #29996
Hi all – I’m no expert but I think its ok to talk about the plot of this episode and so forth on this thread.
I’m the most spoiler-averse person you could imagine (to the point where I avoid BBC stuff and “Coming next week…”) but I’d have to be a complete numpty to come to this thread, scroll past the picture and description and then read comments and go “oh – a dinosaur! You ruined it for me!!”
But I’ll cede as always to @craig or a moderator to tell me otherwise.
(also – which other thread could we possibly use to talk about this episode?? My hunch is the Spoilers thread may have spoilers for future episodes, but as said, I’m massively spoiler averse!)
anyway – I liked this one! And yes, it wasn’;t your ‘normal’ regeneration (though I’d like to know what is a ‘normal’ regeneration). And lots of issues hit firmly on the head as well as other ones opened up again.
Now, where were those bonkers theories about who gave the phone number to Clara…?
🙂23 August 2014 at 22:17 #29998
@ smeglennon I am sorry to hear you were disappointed in the episode. on the whole I personally felt it was a brilliant setup piece. It’s got the whole doctor you’ve changed I don’t want you to change issues from Clara’s point of view. It’s an issue that was never really dealt with in the ecclestone/tennant transition and Rose, she seemed to transferred her affection for the face and personality of the new doctor at the time as so what. There wasn’t a need when to face it when smith took over but in a sense it wasn’t needed as we had two doctors who in a way were very similar in some respects both could be seen as that fanciable guy and had a sex appeal for younger characters. The transition from from Matt to Peter is not the same we’ve gone from a young guy that his female companions could plausibly fancy romantically to a doctor who will to all intents and purposes will probably engender the older father or uncle figure in all probability, though I must say Cappaldi is a fine figure of a man. I know some of you will in all probability think I am wrong in this opinion and I respect that. But to recap I felt overall I felt it was a good setup piece I think we have more to see on the development of the Cappaldi version of the doctor in the episodes to come and I still think in the long term he’s going to be a good doctor.23 August 2014 at 22:20 #29999phoebe-phire @phoebe-phire
Fantastic, so glad 12 got new titles and a brand new TARDIS decor, he deserves it. Capaldi is going to be a brilliant Doctor and certainly us ‘Baby Boomers’ have no problem with the Doctors new face! I’m looking forward to an accomplished actor delivering the compassionate side of the Doctor while giving gravitas to the immense enemies he must overcome. 12 connects well with classic series doctors 3 and 4, and also 9 and 10 all much admired incarnations.
Clara fulfilled her companion role well, as companions are vital in verifying the new Doctor to the viewer. 11’s phone call kind of undermined her, questioning her ability to do this on her own
Very happy.23 August 2014 at 22:24 #30000
Sorry to hear that @zelah10! Then again Doctor Who has to serve a lot of different tastes and maybe they will focus more on yours in the next episode.
I made some notes on napkins while I was watching and am writing this during my first rewatch. Sorry, but my thoughts won’t be completely sorted. But I will try to stay in order of the episode with my observations. For now I will only speak about things that stood out to me.
- I definitely got goose bumps during the intro. I love how they used the Clockwork elements. I liked the music of 11 a bit better though (is it a bit closer to the original @old folks? -just kidding). AND I swear I have seen that before on YouTube! This was not the first time I saw that intro!
- The ‘blame the English’ bit was funny to me though the Scottish might have been offended? Especially with that vote for independence.
- I did not like that Clara got scolded /schooled! The whole episode kind of echoed that. Lots of people (as we have seen with “on the sofa” comments) have used the break to celebrate Matt Smith and make peace with the change “Times change and so must I”. When you have reached that stage where you can accept it as it is and Clara (in place for the viewer) still gets scolded/schooled it is a bit … well it got on my nerves a bit. Maybe it helps younger children? I didn’t like it much.
- Amelia Pond would have jumped in that river!
- He brought hope to that family. Did he tell himself that there is hope?
- The ad placement was so funny! “On the other side” and the conversation where they realize that they both did not do it.
- I would have NEVER expected that screwdriver joke from Doctor Who – although in that kind of joke there were often screwdrivers involved, weren’t there? Last time in Crimson Horror? “Did the screwdriver …hit something” LMFAO
- What the hell he is leaving her behind!?!?! Leaving Clara like that! My first reaction: Are they TRYING to make the Doctor unlikeable?!?!?!?!!? 11 would have done something! Anything! He would have not left her! My second reaction: BRAVO CLARA!!!! So proud of her! My third reaction: Wow! Nice turn of events.
- I find the whole concept of body parts a bit revolting. Double meaning of exchanged parts! We can even see a reflection of the Doctor. He has lost himself a bit.
- Poor, dark Doctor. He is painted darker than before. He is doing the same thing as he did before, but this time with a clear emphasis on the immorality of it. How can one not feel pity in that moment?
- WTF?!?!?!?!?!!? (all punctuation marks needed) Matt Smith! <3! What a tear jerker! Nearly cried! Seeing him when you don’t expect him was at least as bad as the goodbye, if not worse. Still the same thing though. Trying to persuade someone who is already ready to accept what must happen.
- Nobody discussed the hanging phone receiver! I thought it was just something that happened in all the mess that was Trenzalore.
- “I’m not sure you got a vote!” Loved that dynamic.
- Telephone number and advert, both being pointed out to us very deliberately. Clearly this is what they want us to theorize about.
- That woman, so creepy (and clearly the one who kept Clara and the Doctor together). -> In a world for the dead? -> A disguise for someone? -> Was someone other than the Master so interested in the Doctor? My first thought was the Master though. I am also thinking a bit of River, but that can’t be, her story is closed. I also felt that way with Tasha Lem.
- I love that we get to see more of the life in Victorian London. Each character gets a new layer, especially Jenny though, I feel.
I am sure there is more, but so far these are my first impressions. I am curious what the rest of the forum will have to say to this episode.23 August 2014 at 22:30 #30001
@devilishrobby @whisht Of course it must be okay to discuss the episode in the thread of the episode! People who do not want to be spoiled should really stay away from this part of the forum.
@miapatrick Yes, it is good that it has not been shown. But I think we all know it happened. If it were in the episode we would have a Sherlock situation though. Might be a bit much for a children television show. The Doctor gets the benefit if the doubt.
I do not agree with the ‘Sorry Sorry’ bit. I thought 11’s were sincere.23 August 2014 at 22:31 #30002MikeofMcr @mikeofmcr
Agree that theme music doesn’t need changing each series. Brilliant sequence of Doctor post-regeneration-Stephan Moffat’s humour at its brilliant best, and at least 5 very good links to the past.23 August 2014 at 22:33 #30003ABXY @abxy
Okay, I’m back and slightly more sane, but I need to sleep in a second. For now, one question: What does everyone think of the new titles? Visually stunning and pleasing to the ear in my opinion, though my judgement may be clouded by the fact I was vibrating with excitement during it. 😀23 August 2014 at 22:37 #30004Anonymous @
A fan-made version of what the new titles might look like appeared on YouTube a few months ago. Steven Moffat was so impressed that he hired the creator to do the new official titles.
I have to agree with some of the comments on the new arrangement of the theme tune. It seemed a little flat and too similar to the ’80s version (which I hate with a passion). It lacked the sense of urgency and excitement that was present in the previous AG versions. Even the Paul McGann movie version had a bit of ‘oomph’ to it.
I’m going to re-watch the episode again before I comment further but so far, I found it a bit underwhelming given all the hype.23 August 2014 at 22:39 #30005Anonymous @
@whisht @timeloop — perfectly happy to be corrected but I’m of the mind that once the episode is broadcast that this thread is for people to discuss the episode as freely as they like. If they haven’t personally watched it yet and don’t wish to be spoiled then the onus is on them to avoid this particular thread until they have/don’t object to plot details being revealed.
The episode? I thought it was great but will refrain from any more detail until I’ve rewatched it….23 August 2014 at 22:51 #30006
Just back from the cinema. Nearly full but not quite. I got the best seat in the house.
It looked unbelievable on the big screen.
Expect a cinema prequel to be uploaded sometime soon. Very funny.
As for the actual episode…
Biggest laugh there was Clara getting walloped by the newspaper.
Nice to see Brian Miller as the tramp. The scene reminds me of Limmy’s ‘Gies yer Jaiket’ (sadly now removed from the net)…
A ripple on on the lake? Clara wonders who Amy is. Pond connection red herrings?
@timeloop – As for the blame the English joke, everyone laughed (& we’re in the heart of Scotland). I think both sides of the referendum campaign will try to claim a win on that one.
@littlemess – definitely looked like Matt Smith when the mask was getting pulled off.
So many good bits (e.g ‘Skin!’) I can’t think straight.
Who could Missy possibly be….?
Dr Who Extra, then Q & A (with Zoe Ball) lasted about 50 minutes. No trailer for forthcoming DVD release though…
Right, I’m off for a 1st rewatch..23 August 2014 at 22:53 #30007
Okay, the intro I have seen on YouTube is not completely the same, but there are some similar aspects, what do you think?23 August 2014 at 22:54 #30008The Krynoid Man @thekrynoidman
I filmed this right after I had just watched the episode and I didn’t make any notes so apologies for rambling like an idiot in some places.23 August 2014 at 22:55 #30009
My initial comment at the time was because I was typing my comment practically as the end title was finished and want sure about broadcast times in other countries and weather we were going to be expected to keep spoilers out of comments for a couple of hours lol as if that would keep fanatical whovians quiet 🙂 . Yes the reference yet again to the mysterious woman who gave Clara the phone number and the supposition it was the same person who place the add in the paper. Hmmm no doubt it will spark even more crazy theorising but let me throw a known quantity into the hat so to speak. If we all think back to TEOT and the two female Timelords who obviously were interfering or at least giving people a push in the right direction ie Donna’s gramp could it be one of them again giving a gentle push. Ah I don’t have the brains to probably work that to a fully realised theorem as it started as a random though that went through my head. no doubt one of the big guns will come up with something.23 August 2014 at 23:02 #30010Anonymous @23 August 2014 at 23:10 #3001123 August 2014 at 23:11 #30012j0hn52 @j0hn52
What the hell was that? Waited all this time and got a very poor story, the Doctor has a very heavy accent and talks too fast making his words unintelligible. Need to turn on subtitles! My daughter who is 20 years old fell asleep half way through! Moffat thinks too much of himself and his scripts. Is there nobody in production who can tell him that’s its not good enough?23 August 2014 at 23:23 #30014
@timeloop Walloped – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/wallop
Clara wonders who Amy is when the Dr mentions her, grumbling about the sonic rolling on the floor.
‘Skin’ is a good bit because it’s not what you expect to power a spaceship…
Jenny and Strax at the screening…
Oooo! Heaven looks a bit familiar…23 August 2014 at 23:32 #30015
@wolfweed AH! The newspaper bit! I agree that was sooooo funny xD!
OMG YES! I missed it, the stream was buffering right there, must have jumped over it! This is SO good! What a script!
Regarding the skin: I think the hot-air balloon was made out of skin =/
Which genious found the two stream facility? Hint? Or just good shooting location? Kudos to you for finding that.23 August 2014 at 23:32 #30016
I think it was the grand moff’s poor poor very poor version of “The talons of weng chiang”, i think i even saw chang as one of the robots in one of the corners. No giant rats though (dinosaur!!!). The silurian sherlock holmes was very bad. liked jenny though (very sexy, not much else though, the mockney was bad (dick van dyke!!!). Clara is the impossible jenna actress, not bad and she looks nice, no real character though (like all good companions). The opening credits were the invasion of time’s presedential office decoration (animated of course). The robots were badly realised (face too big on the main guy one, like arnie in T2 20 odd years ago).
The story meandered like a meandering thing that goes nowhere and gets nowhere slowly. capdoc is no good, just a filtered down version of the past doctors and turned into the grand moff avatar that he is and will be.
Time to put me i charge of doctor who i think.23 August 2014 at 23:38 #3001823 August 2014 at 23:44 #30019phoebe-phire @phoebe-phire
@j0hn52 we were spoilt with RTDs incredible stewardship over the script and production 1-5. SM does seem to favour a very ‘timey-whimey’ approach to plotting, but a new delivery could make all the difference as Capaldi settles into the role and really claims it.23 August 2014 at 23:56 #30020
Nice spot (by Giftedcynic I think) on the Gruniad thread – ‘Maggie Thatcher’ was immolated!
There was a rumour that this episode was called ‘Nemesis of Neglect’, so I was expecting ‘a little bit of politics’.
24 August 2014 at 00:09 #30021Magnetite @magnetite
Well, just got back from the pictures (as we old’uns call the cinema) and I managed to survive the hype and had a great time. There were some genuine laugh-out moments, the depiction of The Half Face man was excellent, the skin airship genuinely creepy, the titular ‘deep breath’ good, and the ending intriguing. Yes, it would have been good to see a few better shots of The Doctor on the horse and up the tree, but maybe Peter Capaldi can’t ride or TPTB didn’t want him riding in the dark on wet cobbled streets?
We were treated to a short introduction by Strax and a 50 minute Q&A live from Leicester Square with PC, JC and SM, which was fun and included the snippet that the old tramp was played by Brian Miller, who was married to Elisabeth Sladen.
The only bum note as far as I was concerned was the advert for Sky Movies which preceded the whole event, which was a bit off to me.
As for Peter Capaldi as The Doctor – excellent! He certainly seems to have hit the ground running, and the much-touted ‘otherness’ seems to be working well so far. Roll on ‘Into the Dalek’.24 August 2014 at 00:16 #30022Serahni @serahni
Just watched it properly, after seeing bits of it whilst I was up coughing with bronchitis. (It aired at 4:50am in Australia.) I really enjoyed it! A lot of season-openers seem a little light on plot because there’s often so much in-house stuff to take care of and this was definitely a case where there needed to be just enough to drive the new Doctor’s solidification and redefine, (or at least restrengthen) his existing relationships. For that reason, I had no qualms with the quite simplistic storyline. There was more that the episode needed to get done and anything too grandiose would have made a mess of all of it.
I liked the very deliberate references to the past relationship between Clara and the Doctor, I thought it was a fitting way to move past it without trying to pretend certain nuances didn’t exist. I liked the return of the illustrious trio, though Strax was underrepresented and that’s always going to disappoint me. The actual story about the androids didn’t affect me much and I didn’t find myself caring much one way or the other but, as I said, I wasn’t watching the episode for its plot story.
And what I saw of next week’s preview looks exciting!24 August 2014 at 05:09 #30027Anonymous @
The new opening graphics had me oohing and aahing, but I too was underwhelmed by the music. Flat is a perfect description @fatmaninabox. It doesn’t irritate me at all, but it is not inspiring either. I’m hoping the new graphics will be enough to give me the same excitement as the theme song used to, but I don’t see that lasting for very long so I hope they improve the song a little more.
Capaldi was fantastic! Funny and dark at the same time, I found myself guessing where he was going next right along with Clara the entire time. I loved it and laughed much more than I was expecting too.
There were plenty of plots to keep my interest between New Doctor, Clara, and the gang. And the most terrifying monsters (even scarier than the Whispermen). Abe Lincoln was one of my favorite presidents, until Steven Moffat ruined Top Hats forever more. I couldn’t trust Honest Abe now if he’s wearing that hat.
Yahoo!!! we get the answer to, the woman in the shop!
My only complaint is the call from Eleven at the end. I thought it was unnecessary and unfair to Capaldi. I was sold that Capaldi would be a great Doctor by that point and it felt like he was stepping on Twelve’s moment to me. Previous Doctor’s didn’t need the approval of their predecessors, and Twelve didn’t need it either. There must have been some other way to convince Clara to stay, without being so heavy handed.
I got everything I wanted from this episode and am very happy to know Doctor Who will be in good hands with Capaldi.24 August 2014 at 08:01 #30028FishComBobulated @fishcombobulated
American media does not recall or recognize the villain from “The Girl in the Fireplace,” and, given the lack of Capaldi quotations in a dozen articles, they also do not understand his accent well enough.
I had no expectations for American media on it, though, because… well. Need I say more? This made the “instant reviews” (more like knee-jerk reviews) middling to negative to somewhat positive.
Every member of our dinner party thoroughly enjoyed the “Deep Breath.” My band of Whovians live in the Blue Ridge Mountains of NC on the eastern coast of the states, so we bizarrely have a deep connection and immediate understanding of the Scottish accent. It’s innate to the lingual culture here.
More thoughts later, 3:00 just turned here. Cheers to the new series and a new series’ discussion! Crazy theories fomenting.24 August 2014 at 08:09 #30029
As @timeloop says: ‘Telephone number and advert, both being pointed out to us very deliberately. Clearly this is what they want us to theorize about.’ And I agree with @barnable that I’m so glad we’re going to learn about the woman in the shop. For me that was one of the last hanging threads from the previous series, and am very glad they’re not just going to sweep it up as a coincidence.
So, if this is what they want us to theorise about, let’s start with some bonkers theorising. If we suppose that ‘Missy’ at the end is indeed the woman in the shop, who is Missy? And where on earth is she? Surely it can’t really be Heaven (at least in a Biblical sense). But then she clearly has immense power in order to bring the android to this space and revive him. And to be able to watch the Doctor’s progress from afar. What do we know about her? Well, in this episode we learned that she is an egomaniac, needy game-player (from the conversation in the restaurant). And that in some sense she considers the Doctor to be her boyfriend. I’ll go back to an earlier bonkers theory, where Clara looked in the History of the Time War during Journey to the Centre of the Tardis, and spotted someone who she recognised (“So that’s who…”). Who on earth could Clara possibly recognise in that book: perhaps the woman in the shop. But then that would link Missy to the Time War.
So, maybe Missy is the Moment, the conscience of the most dangerous weapon in the world. The Bad Wolf. I think that might fit with all the above.24 August 2014 at 08:11 #30030
Just to add as well that I thought this was an extremely moving and well constructed reflection the whole nature of regeneration. Regeneration stories always go on about the disorientation that the Doctor experiences, but this one really delved into the identity issues that it raises. I thought it was superb, and I’m really looking forward to more of Capaldi.24 August 2014 at 08:50 #30031
One other thought: I did wonder if the time-travelling dinosaur (with a TARDIS inside her) may have been a reference to the time-travelling dinosaur embryos (inside a TARDIS) from Mark of the Rani. Personally, I hope Missy does not turn out to be the Rani.24 August 2014 at 08:55 #30032Anonymous @
Just to throw another theory into the mix – Missy was also the name of one of the troopers in ‘Nightmare in Silver’. Could be a red-herring given that Steven Moffat likes to re-use the names of previous characters (did anyone notice ‘Alfie’ cropping up in Deep Breath?).24 August 2014 at 09:08 #30033chickenelly @chickenelly
Also watched it at the ‘pictures’ (my granny’s term not mine) yesterday. Not as empty as I first feared but about half full – only a couple of die-hards had made the effort, ie Baker’s scarf and someone dressed up as Eleven from his first series.
First impressions, hmmm. Not as immediately accessible as Eleventh Hour but Capaldi did say that his Doctor wasn’t as user friendly as some of the previous incarnations. Plus I also thought it could have done with a bit of trimming down. However once the restaurant scene kicked in, the episode rattled along. I did find Matt’s reappearance (including terrible wig) a bit of a misstep.
I’ll need to watch it again for bonkers theorising™ but all in all a very promising start, especially after that dreadful Christmas episode when virtually nothing happened.24 August 2014 at 09:32 #30034Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip
At the moment I’m tending towards ‘Missy is The Master, regenerated as female’.
Firstly there’s the name – a female Master would be a Mistress, so Missy (especially since it avoids the connotations of ‘The Mistress’ for the kids, while bringing it front and centre for the adults).
Secondly, the Master/Mistress is the only character from the Doctor’s past who fits the bill of ‘ex-boyfriend who turns out to be psycho stalker’.
Thirdly, of all the Doctor’s enemies, the Master/Mistress is the only one who genuinely doesn’t want to kill him. To the extent of saving his life on-screen. And is very prone to convoluted plans, and has the power to change time. I’ve said before that Clara was a suspiciously perfect Companion (she even stays put when told to) – while we saw in Deep Breath that she is definitely human, I do wonder if her role as ‘The Girl Who Saves The Doctor’ is a designed role within the story as well as in the scripts.
And finally, a meta-reason. Moffat’s put everything in place for a female Doctor except a female Doctor. 🙂 If the BBC is terrified that a female Doctor would ruin their highly successful brand, you’re going to need to do a dry run. Gender switching the second most iconic male Time Lord would be one way to do that.
If the audience likes ‘Missy’ as much as they do ‘The Master’, then the producer who wants to cast a woman is going to have evidence to point to when arguing that a gender switch will work.24 August 2014 at 09:56 #30035
@bluesqueakpip All very interesting. I especially like the meta-theory that a Master/Mistress this would be seeding the idea of a female Doctor. I have three daughters: they are really into the show, and dream of one day getting to play the Doctor, so I have a lot invested in this idea!
If you’re suggesting Clara is a plant, there is of course the projection of Adric in Castrovalva, which would fit with your Master theory. But it also just struck me that if that was the case she could be a female Turlough, meaning of course that Missy might be the Black Guardian, which would be consistent with what appear to be her very considerable powers. She certainly dresses for that role, and I may be seeing things (or just being a bit rude), but was there just a touch of Valentine Dyall about her?24 August 2014 at 10:14 #30036nortti @nortti
Thought Peter Capaldi and Clara acted very well, but the script was awful.
Just made no sense at all, big dinosaur in centre off London and no one really bothered! Come on! Just a few police men cared, where was the army, navy etc
I personally dont like the reptile lesbian marriage thing, think its a bit OTT when there is large a teenage/kids audience. (im not antigay but think it was just to much in this episode, and thought Jack Harkness was a good character choice)
Anyway overall really disappointed would only give it 3/10.24 August 2014 at 10:37 #30037ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity
Hello! (pokes head nervously over the parapet…)
I’ve not been about for a while – real life’s been a bit mental – but real life goes on hold for a new series, so…
I’m saddened to see so many negative comments hereabouts, but personally I loved Deep Breath. Delighted to see Moffat dealing with the small-minded and shallow minority who foolishly believe a man in his 50s is “too old” to play an alien into his third millennium, even if he did have to make Clara look like a shallow, small-minded fool herself 🙂 . Madame Vastra’s lecture was beautifully done, and it was interesting to see something of that narcissistic streak coming out in Miss Pretty Face’s riposte about “flirting with a mountain range”. I think I’m right in remembering the TARDIS made some reference to Clara’s high opinion of herself in the last series? I watched, but I wasn’t fully engaged with the Eleventh Doctor’s era, so I might have imagined it?
Don’t get me wrong – Jenna Coleman is a beautiful girl and a terrific actress, but the character of Clara was a bit too unruffled and perfect at times. Nice to see Jenna being given some meatier material to work with, and her performance in her big moment of peril was top-drawer.
Seriously, did you really think the Doctor had completely abandoned her? Just because he’s not going to kiss her brow and stroke her hair any more doesn’t mean he’ll do that, surely?
There’s one other thing he might or might not have done – I’m on the side of “not” at the moment, but I’m open to persuasion. Elsewhere I’ve read comments that “the Doctor wouldn’t have done that” in his confrontation with the droid – either kill it or urge it to do the deed itself. No?
The droids have been harvesting living beings for millions of years surely, if they knew precisely what bit of dinosaur would be most useful? How many deaths have they caused? Clara and the gang are in mortal peril. I can see most, if not quite all, of the previous incarnations doing whatever it took to save humanity (and stray dinosaurs!) from that threat myself.
I found the droids’ story really disturbing – suggestive of horror without displaying it, which is far, far scarier than throwing buckets of fake blood across the screen. Add in the running time, which really gave the characters time to talk and (ironically) to breathe…. it’s a winner all round for me.
Saving the best for last – the Doctor. Peter Capaldi hasn’t put a foot wrong in the past year publicly and now he goes and tops it off with a debut performance like that! Comic timing, subtlety, that mad, dangerous unpredictability and yes, that slightly sinister edge… he’s The Doctor as I always imagine The Doctor to be. I saw touches of Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee and both the Bakers (T. more than C.) in there but none of them were overpowering. His guilt and grief at the dinosaur’s fate; the crushed look when Clara doesn’t respond and the vulnerability in that last scene… just beautifully played.
I thought the much-leaked cameo might be a problem to me, but it wasn’t. I wouldn’t have missed it if it wasn’t there, but since it was – OK.
Overall – a strong 8.5 out of 10 for the episode, and a definite 12 out of 10 for 12 himself. Oh, and I’m in agreement with @bluesqueakpip. I have a nasty feeling Missy will turn out to be a stalking horse for a female Doctor, although I’m holding out a faint hope (based solely on that unnecessary “boyfriend” guff) that she might be an evil older version of Clara created by all the timestream goings-on in Name 🙂24 August 2014 at 10:57 #30038
I’ve got to agree with 100% with @bluesqueakpip
I’ve been thinking exactly the same since I watched the leak of this ep (the only one I’ve watched/read – naughty!) The clues all point this way (could be a red herring of course).
Lots of boys/blokes are saying that they’ll stop watching if the Master becomes a woman.
I don’t see what the problem is. If she is, Michelle Gomez could end up being the best Master yet.
As I said early this morning (over on the spoilers thread), she reminds me of (a crazed) Anthony Ainley.
A Time Lord sex change should come as no surprise. It’s been mentioned in ‘The Doctor’s Wife’ and recently in the War Doctor novel, ‘Engines of War’.
Going back to the leak, I’m sure that in it, the audio cut between the gifted eyes and the sound of the fountain was quicker & louder and therefor much more gruesome.
And as for anyone wondering why I was banging on about Thatcher – The newspaper in the tramp scene details Margaret Roberts’ ‘spontaneous combustion’.24 August 2014 at 11:00 #30039
hmm @bluesqueakpip – interesting as ever!
I think I agree with Missy as Master if mainly for the name. (and last we saw of the Master was that he’d died and had had his ring picked up by a female hand?).
I can imagine that as the show gets ever more successful, that changing the gender of the Doctor might get ever more ‘risky’ for execs. However, if changing the gender of The Master were enough to convince them that having a female Doctor would be accepted, then I’d sack them!
To be honest, I think its more likely to backfire if it is a stalking horse (or even misused as one). There’ll be those who’ll say “booo – we prefer Delgado/Ainsley! How dare they!” etc etc and the storyline may not be brilliant enough (not the actresses fault) and this lack of ‘wow’ might scare them off from using a female Doctor even more.
Which would be a massive shame – the best actor should play the Doctor and when that actor happens to be a woman then brilliant! I’ll be as interested as ever in watching where that’ll take us.24 August 2014 at 11:18 #30040
I really should watch it again, but from my scribbled notes from last night (I gave up just after writing “music too high” as I got immediately engrossed in the actual episode!).
I think the intro music is a little ‘flat’ or without bottom or whatever. I’ll have to listen again, but though I have no issue at all with new Doctor – new theme (and interior) I think this one might need a bit of tweaking (and if they’re going with a clockwork motif I wonder if there’s any of that in there..?).
Oh, as as for ‘holding your breath’ – its another kid’s game (yay!)!
We’ve had ‘don’t blink’ and standing like statues, now its holding your breath.
I’m sure we’ve had others in the past; these are easy and great ways for kids to take the show into the playground and around the house.*
The only sour note really, was that they felt the need to bring back Matt Smith to reassure Clara/the audience that this older man really was the Doctor.
By this point we’d already gone through a journey and Capaldi and Coleman had already convinced us. By using Smith kinda undermined them which was a bit unnecessary.
Anyway, minor point and really looking forward to more of Capaldi (not sure if deliberate but with him in a nightshirt made me think of Nigel Hawthorne in The Madness of King George which only added to the poignancy).
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