Joy to the World

[Craig @craig Emperor]

The 2024 Christmas Special. On a Christmas visit to London, Joy (Nicola Coughlan) soon discovers her hotel room opens a secret doorway to the Time Hotel.

Hopping from room to room and time period to time period she discovers danger, dinosaurs and the Doctor. But a deadly plan is unfolding and Joy may be the only person who can save all life on earth.

Nicola Couglan is this year’s Christmas guest star and is, of course, well known for Derry Girls and Bridgerton. She was also in Barbie with Ncuti Gatwa.

Written by Steven Moffat, this is directed by Alex Sanjiv Pillai. Pillai has directed many TV shows including Silent Witness, Being Human, Robin Hood, Merlin and Bridgerton.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Well, after a fun day and a few drinks, I got to watch it. And I have to say I didn’t like this one at all. Not really one bit. It seemed like an idea in need of heart and character.

We hardly got to know Joy beyond cliched heart-plucking lines (I hate those). There was something there but it needed much more development. Moffat has written fantastic, if sentimental, Christmas episodes. I think this could be his worst ever.

And I hate saying that because I love the programme, I love Moffat’s work. I don’t want to sound like a hater. But this just felt really poor and underdeveloped.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@craig,

I revere you as our wise Emperor but, a lowly vassal, I confess that I rather enjoyed it. I take on board all your points, but I responded to it from the perspective of someone who has just experienced loss. I certainly felt that it went on for too long, but one of the things that captured me was that I saw it as a sweet and moving statement on the afterlife from a totally secular perspective.

But as I said, I watched it from the perspective of someone who has recently experience loss.

 

 

[winston @winston]

@craig @blenkinsopthebrave     Merry Christmas! We are halfway out of the dark.

My day was a lunch bag let down after sickness prevented my family from coming over. They were worried that we might get sick so we have postponed till new years. When I watched the episode I remembered how scared I was that I would get Covid and be in the hospital all  alone.  My nice old neighbor died in hospital during lockdown and most of his family never saw him. Parts of this made me sad because of those memories but it also lifted me up and left me feeling hopeful and grateful. I can’t ask for more from a Christmas show.

I really want to stay at the Time Hotel and I could have watched an hour of the Doctor going into all the rooms.Loved, loved Trev! He  would have made a great and loyal companion.The nice, unflappable women at the hotel and her relationship with the Doctor gave me a warm ,cozy feeling.The Doctor cries more now and I have always been a “sympathetic crier” so I cry more too.

There was maybe too much going on in this episode so I feel all those story lines were crushed into one show. But it is Christmas and a white one here where I am so I will be cheerful and say I liked this and it was a good Christmas episode over all.

Thanks for this place Craig.

stay jolly

[Charlie Cook @cookgroom]

I enjoyed it… mostly.
I lost my wife in the tailend of COVID, so I was actually able to be with her at the end, but none of the rest of her family were, so I found that part a bit heartwrenching.
Other than that, I thought it was fun. Im afraid that I guessed the punchline as soon as he opened the briefcase. Not sure how the managed to exist in the past before it was formed though 😀

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

I need to watch it again. I certainly need to hear the Silurian’s testament again. Important details there, I’m sure.</p>
But I feel I could be entertained and carried along by it… again… in a way that ‘The Legend of Death’ still has not. Rewatching that really does feel like a waste of time. Which is curious because the flaw in both is the dubious metaphysical resolution. Is that Disney at work? Or just a general plea for us not to give in even though we appear to be surrounded by murderous idiots.</p>
Or does it take 65 million years for a bunch of hopeless outsiders to subvert Villengard’s programming? And enable Joy to develop faster-than-light psycholevitation. Or was that because the extensive reprogramming during Boom? Who was in the cult cave that prevented suit case guy from marching in at the start. Might be better to avoid that. As Who has done until now. I was waiting for a Life of Brian reference. It didn’t arrive.</p>
The lockdown references seemed quite sound.

High points. The hotel concept. Supersized Dinosaur again… why not? Maybe they got that big but we ain’t dug one up yet. Doctor does the caretaker/lodger/trapped in time thing. Anita and Joy were both curiously underwritten but perhaps that’s always been the fate of occasional characters in Who. I would like to see Anita again tho.

The bootstrap paradox rehash was a bit ho hum. Just show this timewimey ‘thing’. It’s not like dumb intentional plot holes of Eternity or Time Lash… ‘gosh Doctor how did you do that?’

It wasn’t Last Christmas or Husbands of River Song but the leads aren’t characters Moff has invested in, I suppose.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Of course the bottleneck was the Cretaceous tree house, not the culty cave in the Levant. Doh

[Ubik @ubik]

Well, I liked it.

And there were at least three characters who would have been better than the “companions” 15 has been saddled with, so far…

[TamaraBeaverbank @tamarabeaverbank]

I liked it. Loved the chemistry between Anita and Ncutie. Wasn’t the strongest episode I’ve ever seen but was far from the weakest. I would have liked a wee but more teasing in Mrs Flood but overall I found it entertaining

[syzygy @thane16]

I absolutely loved it! I was sobbing mess throughout and I felt our Doctor showed a little more sensitivity and emotion than earlier this year?

Merry Christmas to all.
Puro.

[Necro.Divinity @necro-divinity]

I liked that the doctor had some time to himself but it felt like it was rushed into the episode to explain a future plot, it is nice to see another version of the doctor content with earth life though, merry Christmas all. At least it wasn’t daleks this year!

[janetteB @janetteb]

Merry Christmas all. (there are still a few days to go..) I really enjoyed it and it was just we needed after a rather “intense” Christmas Day. Warm and fun. The family were all engaged. So nice to be watching all together again. the ending was a bit sickly but not sure quite what the religious connotations of that are.

cheers

Janette

[Dr. Pepper-Bean @dr-pepper-bean]

A very weird episode that almost seems to promote suicide at Christmas time.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dr-pepper-bean

well, as Voltaire might have said, if there wasn’t already a religion which has, for the last 1600 years, been throwing up its hands at the suffering and injustices of this world whilst reasoning that the slavishly obedient or insensate ones will be rewarded in a purely hypothetical next one, and simultaneously condemning those who can’t deal with this revolting process, you might have to make it up.

Mind you, that aspect of the story was the bit I liked least.

So, not weird exactly. Who knows, maybe Moff did this on purpose. Could he be an unreliable witness to the ressurrection? Because we have here a concatenation of rebirth for various victims of Villengard’s wonderful tech… definitely not nativity.

WHO doesn’t normally play with any specific religious elements. Sounds good to me. But Moff can write. So, these elements shouldn’t be accidental. Is he kicking back against good ol wholesome Disney? Or just doing his average play with Christmas tropes? Bear in mind this is supposedly his last outing. Well, maybe not.
Villengard is clearly significant. Translates as ‘the wild garden,’ in norse languages. Valeyard maybe ‘old man’ in french… but there is a superficial phonetic resemblance.

And something beginning with V is lurking within UNIT

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@ps1l0v3y0u

Re:Moffat “supposedly his  last outing…”

Really? I know IMDB can be unreliable, but Moffat is listed as the writer of the first episode of the 2025 season. And, as we know, Moffat is a master of playing the long game with his stories.

 

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

@thane16

How wonderful to see you online again, Puro! It has been a while.

I’m with you. I found myself getting very emotional by the end. And why not?

All the best.

[WhoHar @whohar]

I quite enjoyed it, even if it did seem a bit like a rehash of some of Moffat’s ideas. Villengard again, Dinosaurs again, timey-wimeyness again. That’s not necessarily a bad thing though.

I thought Gatwa was more Doctory than he’s been before.

I confess to some confusion over how Joy survived and transformed the weapon into a star. My viewing was interrupted, so it may be something I missed.

And did Moffat introduce Jesus into the Whoniverse at the end?

Anyhoo, Happy New Year to all.

[Charlie Cook @cookgroom]

@whohar if they did explain how joy got the bomb, then I missed it as well…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@blenkinsopthebrave @cookgroom @whohar

’Moff’s last outing’… I may have been extrapolating from Moff’s apparent reluctance in accepting RTD’s invite to write for the last series. ‘Oh go on, twist my arm.’

Otherwise, I may well have assumed incorrectly whilst suspecting correctly… the emphasis on Villengard indicates Moff and RTD are cooking a big fat arc together.

Wouldn’t it be great if Mathieson and Whithouse could be tempted back too? Maybe not the servile rat-people. Or are you going to tell me that’s been announced too? Might Not Be Suitable For Disney tho.

Joy and the bomb… star seed… whatever… I think, over 65 million years, the stooges between them subverted Villengard’s programming. Joy had been de-conditioned, so she could exercise her free-will, save the world and be reunited with her mother. And levitate faster than light. Hmmm.

But in any case, that’s what brings a triumvirate of Zoroastrian priests to Judea (actually about 3 BC… those old timers lost count somewhere.) Spacetime coordinates essentially.

‘There are a bunch of shepherds outside…’

‘We are bedding down in a stable you know!’

’And now some Persians have rocked up with blingy merch!’

’Woah. That doesn’t happen everyday. Is there something you haven’t told me?’

Perhaps we shouldn’t read any more into the nativity element, which rather lets WHO off the hook.

Thank goodness for that.

Unanswered question: why did Villengard want to blow up the earth in the first place?

Unanswered question 2: who has a Tree House in the Cretaceous?

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Well enjoyed the episode but wonder where it’s ultimately going to lead us the arms company seems to be rearing its head and makes me wonder if they are going to be the big bad of the next series. And I’m assuming the case code was a time paradox that may have its resolution in the future

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@devilishrobby
The things not so bad as first thought… Bethlehem… I can handle that. Kid gets born in challenging circumstances while arms manufacturer inexplicably supplies handy star. Anticipate a trio of Parthian visitors. This seems reasonable. It does break with the ‘no religion’ WHO protocol IMHO. I wonder why? Moff and Russ thumbing their noses at The Mouse maybe?

The things that didn’t work…

The code and the paradox. Not sure what metaphysical point Moff was trying to make. I assumed it must just take a year for the Doctor to get clever.

The ‘hotel room is the real you’ schtick. Does that mean people who stay in Premier Inns are all clones? Who REALLY gets to choose their hotel room? Yes the bolshy people who give hoteliers hell are legendary but I assume that’s because they got lucky once and dined out on it forever after.

The room didn’t even look THAT bad. Now, if there was a Minotaur stalking all the guests who were all going mad…
Or, if all the lifts broke down, the chef was incapable of cooking chips and the receptionist arrogantly uninterested (Travelodge Poole you know who you are… the actual room was fine) I could empathise. But Anita was so lovely I don’t really understand why the Sandringham wasn’t packed out with shepherds while Iranian mystics smothered her with bling, perfume and embalming fluid.
More Anita please.

Yes, it is actually your home that displays you. The hotel room is just a small space full of you. Hi. Feeling uncomfortable?

Of course The Doc is trying to shock Joy… but this bit did creak.

Villengard… yeah… I have speculated we could be dealing with a Valeyard/Vlinx alliterative happening. But why make a star? Is this a nod to Clarke’s 2010 Space Oddity 2? ie the intention was never to burn the Earth, but rather bring say Europa or Titan to life? Does someone inimical want its own species to fight for it, paint pretty pictures of it and call it Dad?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

I mean Space Odyssey of course!

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Also, did you all notice the return of Mavity?

virtual reality.

Need to go back to Star Beast and Wild Blue Yonder…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Mavity… 15 talks to Holo Trev about where the case is and asks about ‘rotational mavity.’ I could not find it again… thought I was going mad! I mean I thought I heard something about Trump invading Greenland and becoming Father Christmas….

Another problem though… if the Silurian Hotel Manager was the ultimate upgrade and could presumably go straight to the top floor… why did he choose Joy’s room? Unless he was only trailing a coat for 15… ie it was a trap for The Doctor all along! He was very keen for 15 to take the case. But, in that case, why didn’t the first carrier approach 15?

Also, why didn’t the Silurian just use the tree house door to get home? OK, maybe he liked slumming it in the hotel.

nb one of the other doors appeared to be for Bag End! But then this would seem to be a virtual reality…

[winston @winston]

@ps1l0v3y0u    I caught the mavity remark so you are not going mad although I heard Trump wants to “economically invade ” us here in Canada and make Wayne Gretzky the Prime Minister so……maybe I’m going mad.

I picture Wayne sitting at home in L.A, ,where he has lived for years, turning on the TV and saying “Why are you bringing me into this?”

stay cozy

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@winston

hmmm. Talk about ‘may you live in interesting times!’

Apparently, Seward wanted to grab Greenland in 1867, when the US purchased Alaska, presumably while the Danes were still reeling from the Schleswig War. Congress blocked him! Upstanding Democrats that they were.

I suppose you could sub Ukraine for Schleswig. Also that would reduce Canada to an inconvenient little stretch of land between the east and west bastions of  North America. Shaman and The Proud Boys could invade through the panhandle of Idaho!

Apparently the Danes have a dodgy claim to Greenland, having scarpered with it when Norway was forced to get into bed with Sweden. This is The Monroe Doctrine looking North East for a change. Oh these perfidious Europeans! They’re all so conflicted. Delinquent. Let’s face it, the fate of Iraquois and the Five Civilised Tribes was so not dodgy. Also, unconflicted, and hardly perfidious at all.

And it happened a long long time ago. Calm down Donald.

[nerys @nerys]

@winston Trump seems to think he made a new joke with that old “51st state” saw.

(I will take the rest of this to the off-topic forum, so as not to derail this thread.)

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