The Fox Inn

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@missy

See #52453 and #52454

Gratuitous pops at a quip and handwaving away somebody’s educated and knowledgeable posts.

Sometimes, when you are on the wrong side of history, that graceful thing to do is to think: “You know what, a whole bunch of people who have dedicated decades of their lives to protecting life and human dignity might just have a point, and my anecdote is not the singular of their evidence.”

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@missy – vape shops are found on most highstreets nowadays- its one kind of shop that really benefits from walk in trade rather than internet orders. They tend to have a lot of vinyl’s on the windows and are called things like ‘such and such a place vape’ or ‘such and such a place eciggerettes’. I’ve come to notice them like I used to notice tobacconists.

Mmm ginger cakes- I use stem ginger I syrup and add the syrup, that’s my addition (as well as doubling the spices) to the BBC recipe- I get most of my recipes from the BBC site, so feel a little unsettled at the talk of removing it.

and @puroandson-  I happened to come across a quote of J K Rowling’s tweet when asked how she balanced motherhood and writing (I don’t know if the two can be divorced, in her case) ‘I gave up housework. It wasn’t a great struggle, to be honest.’ just found that today, appropriately. I don’t mind housework with audiobooks (though I would rather do a jigsaw) because then I feel it isn’t wasted time. The house will get untidy again, but I can’t unlisten to the book.

[Anonymous @]

@missy
“Thanks”

You’re welcome. There is something about working as opposed to playing that I can never quite figure out. There was a gent named Alan Watts, who said the trick is to learn how to play on purpose or with a purpose, as if nobody is watching and it doesn’t count or matter, an art that I think few ever master. I certainly haven’t, although there are times when I manage it, forgetting all about what I am trying to do and yet doing it, just doing it and then it can be a lot of fun. Then again, sometimes I just have to take a break from it.

By the way, what sort of writing do you do?

@ichabod
“Thanks for the background info on ‘Gunner Cade’. That was the first SF novel I remember reading, and I loved it (I was about 10, maybe, and I thought it was kind of simplistic but loved it anyway), but I had no idea that Judy Merrill was in part behind it.”

You’re welcome, although interestingly I haven’t read it yet. As far as I know Merrill was the co-author, although I’ve forgotten what name she went by back then.

@ichabod
“There’s a nice library collection of SF dedicated to her in Toronto. She was one of the ancestral gods of the field . . .”

Yes, I have been to that library when it was housed at the University of Toronto I think and called, “The Spaced Out Library.” The story behind that is that she had this huge collection of books and not enough room and donated them with the understanding that she would continue to have access to them, as well as a free office space for life. It was many years ago that I visited the place and I only had time to read the one story by her, which impressed me very much, although I have forgotten the title now.

[Anonymous @]

@missy
I listen to lots of audio books, mostly fiction. What sort do you prefer?

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@miapatrick      When I said “mental space”, I guess I really meant having a large piece of a day available where I’m not constantly having to jump up and deal with other things. Because I find that I will sit down to it, and get so absorbed that suddenly far more time has gone by than I intended. I’m not one of these people who can say, “I will write for 90 minutes today, and then do whatever else.” That is to say, I can say that, and try to do it, but it doesn’t always go well (for the errands and chores, anyway!).

@missy   We have the vape shops, too. They started showing up around the same time as the semi-legal pot stores, so I tend to associate them all together in my mind– stores selling e-cigarettes, stores selling pipes and bongs, you know, whatever!  🙂

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@miapatrick  @StitchInTime     I find my collection of Big Finish really useful for chores, particularly the ironing, and the sorting of the piles of stuff that seem constantly to build up in my house. For cleaning the kitchen, I tend to put on some lively music, I sort of dance and sing around the room as I’m cleaning up. It livens things up.  🙂

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus
“the sorting of the piles of stuff that seem constantly to build up in my house”

That is a big job around here. Have you any suggestions for the ‘organizationally challenged’ on how to get this done and how to do it?

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime

If you wouldn’t mind me stepping in? 🙂  I have this problem at the mo -in my garage are at least 10 large boxes from my old jobs. Also, leaves, and god knows what.

Today I hired a handyman who will help me. This chappie has a wife also involved in the business and she’ll help sort thru this with me. It’s cheap! And there’s minimal stress.

Kindest,

PuroSolo.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@StitchInTime      Ha. Unfortunately, I am also one of the organizationally challenged. @Puroandson has the right idea, a friend of mine has an “organizer” who has helped her a lot. Unfortunately, I’m not dealing with quite the situation that Puro describes. It’s a more small-scale situation, although it comes up over and over, so I don’t really feel justified in paying someone to help me deal with it!  🙂

[Anonymous @]

@puroandson
“If you wouldn’t mind me stepping in?”

Where? I’m not sure I’ve got room. 😉

@arbutus
My problem might be classified as medium scale but I simply don’t have the funds to hire somebody and I’m not sure I would feel all that comfortable with that anyway. So, as I said, how do you deal with it?

[winston @winston]

@stitchintime             I make lists of the jobs I want to do an then check off each item as I finish them.   The little check marks beside each job gives me the incentive to keep going until they are all finished. Like @arbutus I play music while I work and sing loudly and badly but with a lot of enthusiasm.

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime

The personal situation I’m in allows for medicare to determine home help  for a period of time -I’ve allocated this gent to tidy up and basically throw out all the stuff I can no longer use for my work.

It’s a cost to me -if I was paying for it -of $150.

Not bad at all.

As for other jobs, yes, lists are great! And then as @arbutus and @winston have also said, one can make lists of lists. The lists then go viral, mate and create more lists!

Stitch -yes “stepping in” rather a funny choice of words from me.

I guess I meant you had a convo with Arbutus and I didn’t want to roll over it.

Kindest,

PuroSolo (in fact said gent will be here in 30 mins -whoo -hoo. I love having a purge)

[winston @winston]

@puroandson     Oh yes those lists can have a life of their own thats for sure. I make so many lists when I am travelling that I keep a little notebook full of them. Then when I am away I can check back at my list and know that I did indeed shut off the  -fill in the blank. Obsessive….maybe?  OK just a wee bit.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@StitchInTime      Well, there are two main kinds of situation. The first, and more common one, is the stuff I just can’t be bothered to take care of when it first shows up: things to be filed, forms to be filled out, bits of newspapers that I saved for some reason, etc. These I just put into a pile at the corner of our kitchen table, between my spot and the wall. There it stays until either a) someone is eating with us and we need the space; b) it simply gets too big and messy; or c) my mother is going to be in the house. Then I remove the pile and hide it in another room. This process is repeated until there are several piles going on in different parts of the house.

At some point, I will need something that I know is in one of those piles badly enough that I will be forced to dig through the pile for it. At this point, unless I am really, really deep in denial, I will usually deal with the pile. This doesn’t actually take me that long, although there are usually one or two things that will end up back on the table next to my spot!

I don’t recommend this system as it is pretty dysfunctional.

The other situation involves stuff that I can’t make a decision about what to do with it. Usually it ends up in a box in our storage locker, until said locker is too full to get in and out of. Then I generally go in and do what I should have done in the first place, i.e. throw the bloody stuff out. C’est la vie.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@puroandson    I have many lists, I make them on the interminable notepads that arrive in my mailbox from realtors who would like to have a go at selling my house (which I don’t own!). The problem is that, all too often, the lists end up in the aforementioned piles. Then I make new ones, which is why there are so many. For awhile, I tried doing this digitally, but I find that the paper notes work better because they are more immediately visible. Until they disappear in the piles.

[Missy @missy]

@pedant

I’ve been told never to explain myself. Your friends don’t need it and others won’t believe it.

Name calling doesn’t do you any credit.

Missy

[Missy @missy]

@miapatrick

My thanks.
I have never seen anything like that over here, perhaps Australians call them by another name. I shall ask around.

ttfn

Missy

[Missy @missy]

@stitchintime

I’m having a stab at a book/novel and am currently on the 4th draft.
My question was, I think, to make me feel better. Writing is such a lonely task and quite frankly boring because one knows the story inside out. I have to force myself to get on with it.

As to audio books, I too prefer fiction. we have to live real life, so who wants to read/listen about/to/ it.

I am partial to “Who dunnits” the supernatural, any of the classics, and any other genre which takes my fancy. Oh how I love the library and BBC 4 Extra.

And your taste is?

Ttfn

Missy

[Missy @missy]

@arbutus

Thank you, I shall have a shufti around.

Ttfn

Missy

[Anonymous @]

@missy

no-one is calling you any names. It’s quite alright. Be happy 🙂

Son of Puro

[janetteB @janetteb]

@arbutus your system sounds exactly like my system. I was just sorting through some of those piles of paper earlier today looking for something. I try to avoid writing on paper now but still end up with piles of written notes to add to the confusion.

I will describe the current state of our table. At the far end is a projector, behind that a D&D diorama. It is a little inconvenient as it takes up half the table but we manage to eat around it. Then there is a box of paints and items in various stages of painted ness. There is a serviette holder, a desk lamp and a model house, oh and a scatter of dice.

Joining onto the main rectangular table is a round table. That is supposed to be the work/junk table but there is so much random junk, papers, paint brushes, molds for model making, photos, Playmobil and a candelabra, that there the junk is spilling over onto other tables. My laptop is on this table and so I work amidst the mess. Most of the chairs have papers on them or books. I do occasionally try to tidy up but everything is being used or about to be used and if i do it is never more than a day or two before the mess starts to creep back.

At one stage I had a “quest” to find a house messier than mine. Surprisingly I succeeded, our Landlord’s house in Sweden. It wasn’t just messy it was occupied by random animals. There was a cage of small furry creatures, lemmings maybe. During the night (when we were guests) we were woken by a kitten nibbling on my partner’s toes. There were dogs and hens roaming freely through the garden. No wonder the house we rented felt so “homely”.

Cheers

Janette

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@janetteb      Yes, it’s the always popular Universal Stacking System. But your version sounds far more ambitious as it involves more types of media. Mine is largely limited to paper, although right now I’m also seeing a couple of cd’s, some AA batteries, and seed packets over there. Also some kind of a strap that I think belongs to a suitcase.

 

[Anonymous @]

@winston “I make lists”
Yes, I do that too.

And this is often one of the side effects:
@puroandson “And then as @arbutus and @winston have also said, one can make lists of lists. The lists then go viral, mate and create more lists!”

Thank you all for your input, which has actually made me feel better about how I am dealing with getting things sorted out around here. 🙂

@puroandson
“Stitch -yes “stepping in” rather a funny choice of words from me.”

I thought it was all right, very clear actually but in the context lent itself to such a pun that I could not resist. 🙂

@puroandson
“I guess I meant you had a convo with Arbutus and I didn’t want to roll over it.”

Thank you. I got that. I was just trying to amuse, or so I thought at the time. 🙂

[Anonymous @]

@missy
“I’m having a stab at a book/novel and am currently on the 4th draft.”

How many drafts does it usually take? Also, what sort of novel, as in, what genre, if any?

“Writing is such a lonely task and quite frankly boring because one knows the story inside out. I have to force myself to get on with it.”

I find that too at times. I have one I have been working on for too long to contemplate. It keeps changing though and I can never seem to make up my mind which version to use and also it is very long and I can’t decide whether I have a multi-part saga or, with major editing, one novel. I have considered writing one novel from the point of view of each major character. Or, I could use the method of going back and forth and with flashbacks. Or, I could just go chronologically, but I just can’t ever seem to make up my mind or just when I do, life gets in the way.

Any suggestions?

@missy
“And your taste is?”

I am kind of restricted to what my library has. They stock a lot of what you have listed, as well as some historical novels and the odd interesting documentary. Thus, I suppose I would describe my taste as eclectic.

[ichabod @ichabod]

On lists and organization — I once made the mistake of hiring someone to help me organize my files, on the understanding that she been a file clerk during her time in the air force.  She managed to completely screw the whole place up for me within a couple of months, mostly by sticking sub-files *inside of* major files, so that I couldn’t see past the sticking-up edges, and the labels she wrote were all in pencil with such a light pressure that they’ve unreadable with floodlights.  I later realized from conversation that she’s the sort of person who has very wide experience, in all the jobs she took on, failed at, and left or was booted out of after too short a time to have learned anything much on the job.  I’ve been kicking myself ever since, and will have to get some kind of reliable office help in here to set the place in order.  My files, though, are really business files, more than household, so it’s a matter of having misperceived the scale of what needs to be done

 

@missy  “Writing is such a lonely task and quite frankly boring because one knows the story inside out.

Well, I think it has to be said that if you don’t actually enjoy the kind of lone-time that creative work/play requires, maybe writing isn’t really for you.  If you know your story so well that it’s become boring, you’ve probably been re-working it over and over for far too long.  At worst, you’ve worn out the spark of original inspiration that compelled you to begin; at best, you could probably benefit by setting this work aside and taking a crack at something entirely new, to get the creative drive flowing again and to refresh yourself with new questions to answer.

Many professional fiction authors have an unpublished first novel stashed in a drawer, and after having their second or third book succeed, go back later to cut and polish the abandoned work and get that published at last (or take a later look, recoil in horror, and burn the thing to make sure it *never* gets published).  You can overwork any creative effort — book, painting, recipe, whatever — with gloom-inducing results.

Maybe try a short story, some essays for an online publication, some poetry or song-lyrics to tunes you love (sounds as if this kind of work would better suit your schedule than a protracted piece that really needs large blocks of dedicated, uninterrupted time to complete).  I wouldn’t keep laboring over a project that’s turning into a chore.

[Anonymous @]

@missy @ichabod

A wonderful speaker came in to my creative writing class to teach us about getting books published, and I recently decided that I want to start out by following the path he took by publishing a book of poems. Poems are very easy for me to write, and I can go back to writing novels once I’ve had more experience with the process of getting my work published.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@StitchInTime  @missy

I really like what @ichabod has to say. I have been writing most of my life, and have at this point accumulated three novels that exist in a “complete” form (that is to say, they have beginnings, middles, and ends), and one still incomplete. The oldest of these is also the biggest, and after much rewriting has been (temporarily) put aside as it still has some structural problems that I can’t see a way out of. I find that having multiple things on the go means that I can always write when I want to, which is ideal because writing brings me a great deal of joy. When I am truly bogged down, or can’t find the time and quiet needed to get too involved, I turn to essay writing, which I can do in shorter bursts. I have at times viewed my participation on this forum in that light! When all else fails, I wrote something on The Doctor Who Forum today!  🙂

@StitchInTime, the “big” work I mentioned above is a lengthy historical, and I went through a similar debate with myself over its length and how to handle it. In the end I decided on the “major editing” route, as I felt that although it covers roughly 45 years and is told from the point of view of two major characters, it really tells one story in a single arc. Plus, the thing about me and history is that while I am fascinated by loads of little details about other times, I doubt that all readers of historical fiction feel the same way. Expanding into a trilogy, which I considered, would have been a license for me to logjam the whole thing up with which streets went were, what year certain buildings were built, and so on, to the detriment of the actual story. Lovely little bits of dialogue is my other weakness, and I have to force myself sometimes to just admit that an entire conversation doesn’t really add anything to the narrative. My experience, for what it’s worth!

 

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus
“the “big” work”

That sounds a lot like what I am dealing with and so your remarks are very relevant. I too get caught up in details, which when you have created your own planet can get very detailed indeed. I created a 5,000 year chronology, for example. The unfortunate thing is that just when I had started to get somewhere, life got in the way, which I find happens a lot. Where I left off was that I wanted to work out the most recent 200 years or so of the planet’s history, chronologically speaking that is–not in too much detail. In particular I wanted to have an idea of how the history, as in, the key events in the lives of what was originally to be the main character matched up with those of the supporting characters. And that’s when life got in the way. Anyhow, I shall certainly take your comments into consideration. Thank you!

Between your input and @ichabod‘s I may just get sufficiently inspired to take another crack at it soon. 🙂 I do remember that it was quite absorbing at times, that I would forget about the time and be up until all hours because I was so fully engrossed in the process. 🙂

[ichabod @ichabod]

@stitchintime  Drafts of novels — I have a friend and colleague who turns in first drafts, and only goes back over her work according to prompts from her editors; she’s been writing and publishing for decades now, and knows her onions, and they know what to expect from her.  I’m only good for about 6 drafts, myself, and then a book feels too stale to work on *without* editorial prompts (and I’ve had some excellent editorial advice over the years that made stories much better than they would otherwise have been).  But I’ve gone to many more drafts than that, taking several years to write and revise something complex enough to need all that time.  Compare George Martin, GOT, time problems with, for a much more prominent example; a high earner like George doesn’t need to work to schedule.  Everybody else does, unless they write as an avocation, not to make a living.

A lot depends on how much outlining and blueprinting you do (in your head and on paper) before you start writing; I never outline, having had one disastrous experience with that technique (it had a happy outcome, though, eventually).

[ichabod @ichabod]

@stitchintime  Sorry, I was interrupted and didn’t complete post #52528, above.  I meant to add that not outlining means that when the story’s done, it needs a *lot* of rewriting to get everything lined up properly, cut-and-paste work for maximizing usefulness and impact of various scenes, and even surgically removing entire story-lines that don’t contribute enough to be worth the time and space they take up.  I do, actually, sometimes outline — *after* the initial draft is written, to be able to do revisions on a coherent basis.  Besides, I don’t usually know — or want to know — the end until I’ve written one half to two thirds of the story.  I start with questions, and follow where they lead.

Many writers who outline extensively don’t do much revising because they don’t need to: the blueprints were laid down clearly in their heads before they began, so they’re essentially filling in the blanks of the outline.  They tend, IMO, to start with answers, and their pre-writing outline is like a map to where they want the story to go.  This works well for those who are comfortable with it, but it turns me off because (I think) it cuts down on the possibilities for surprises — for me first, then for readers.  Surprises keep me from getting bored, or prematurely seeing the ending too soon and (as a reader) skipping and skimming because all the maneuvering to get there feels like mere filler (which it often is, to be fair).

I think starting with questions rather than answers helps me avoid writing propaganda (although for some readers, even raising a hot issue in any way is deliberate provocation and advocacy of the outrageous).

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime @winston @arbutus @janetteb @ichabod

Lists! And paper! Noooooo.

I invested this laptop on which I could place lists. Even my 9 year old phone has a quaint notebook style addition (too old to be called an app).

So, we’re part way to being paperless in this house. Textbooks for Son are all digital which is a shame. Whilst we have (at last count) 3000 books -and God knows how many CDs, we don’t tend to write things down too often. The lists got lost (:cough: I threw them out. But by accident m’lord! :cough) and so pinning them down (literally) to the Sticky Notes on the lap top (they have colours. I’m in digital stationery heaven) works best.

Still, in cleaning out the very last box from my very bottom drawer at work increased the nostalgia as there were dozens of blue and red pencils (tricks of my trade, at least) as well as Smiggle highlighters -from a grateful student a year ago. Son will enjoy highlighting…..something….(difficult without the paper).

I love a box…and what might live inside.

But I have adored your tales of organisation and piles of stuff.

I must say I am not a person who has stuff on tables leading to piles of more stuff. Unfortunately I have an aversion to papery stuff. 🙂

Imagine Puro, standing imperious, (OK, I’m, short, but still) pointing at said ‘stuff” and loudly ordering it all to be “put away or I will throw it all out.”

It’s not the stuff, per se, it’s that my eye scans the stuff and I see a folder upon which is written “minutes from bla bla meeting 2008”.

2008!! What?

That’s when the imperious Puro starts huffing and turning beetroot red -large piles of stuff cause me to over-inflate (like the economy) and panic. Last year, when we were renovating a bathroom and a skip arrived, I had the best fun in years: things were torn up, shredded and chucked. It was glorious. It was like seeing Florence or walking the best tracks in NZ. Seriously, it was that good to purge!

Admittedly, that was during the time of The Great Toilet Crack of 2014 (some of you might remember that splendid month) where, during the reno, the other loo decided it had received enough crap, thank you very much….and burst.

A lot of books, paper and clothes went missing then….into the poo orbit. So did the carpet, the walls, some furniture and minutes of meetings from 2004-05. 🙂

Like the crack in Amelia Pond’s wall, I had my own; behind which were not voices and an army of mad Gallifreyans, but the entire water mains of our suburb.

I’ll never feel the same way about that bathroom loo ever again 🙂

Kindest, PuroSolo  (I unpacked the 10th box yesterday. Hooray! Anyone interested in analyses of Pompey and Sulla? On paper, of course  <<<*\*>>>   )

[ichabod @ichabod]

@arbutus  Thanks for the thumbs up; and I know just what you mean about historicals (real or fantasized) and absorption in the details.  That’s why there’s not just LOTR, but The Silmarillion from Tolkien — he loved all his background detail too much to give any of it up (note also the comparison between the numbers of readers for LOTR and those for the Silmarillion).  In genre readership, there’s a faction that just *adores* this sort of deep background.  These are the kids who learned to write in beautiful elvish script, with which they adorned the walls of the New York City subway system for a time; who created maps and lexicons and probably fan fiction as well based on Tolkien.  Some of them grew up to be Guy Gavriel Kaye; some grew up to be Terry Brooks and The Endless Third Rate Rip-Off of Shanana, Dooby-Dooby-Doo.

There are also plenty of readers who recoil from all that to a position of, “Oh, for God’s sake, just tell me what *happened* and skip the glossaries and family trees etc. that I have to keep flipping back to as I’m reading, just to keep the main characters straight and know what they’re talking about!”  I’m of the latter type: I no longer read long fantasy-historicals with hand-drawn maps of non-existent places in front and endless addenda at the back.  Life wasn’t too short for this kind of thing when I was a kid; I’m not a kid any more, and now it is.

There’s a delicate balance to be struck, I suppose, but it’s a moving target, varying from reader to reader.  And I did write some books with maps . . . but no damn glossaries.  Line in the sand, I say!

 

[Anonymous @]

@ichabod
I do tend to work out a lot in my head but also write down a lot in notebooks. The “surprises” arise from a method that I have learned, which is character driven. I first imagine the characters in detail, writing back stories for them based on that and then the plot emerges from that and that’s where the surprises come up. I think in terms of, based on what I know about this character, what will the character do in this situation and then based on the nature of the other characters how will they respond? And then, what happens next?

This has moved my story in directions that I never imagined it would go. Another part of the method is to think in terms of eventually creating a series rather than one novel and this method certainly generates enough material for that, but then I have to decide which novel comes first or, as you have suggested, what is the core material for the one novel.

[Anonymous @]

@puroandson
“Lists! And paper! Noooooo.

I invested this laptop on which I could place lists. Even my 9 year old phone has a quaint notebook style addition (too old to be called an app).”

Having had a number of hard drive crashes and software incompatibility issues, I’m sticking with the paper. I have never had a pencil or piece of paper crash, nor had to upgrade it to a new version, which is no longer compatible with my existing printer or software. I have been told there are two kinds of hard drives: those that have crashed and those that haven’t crashed yet and they do seem to crash at the most inconvenient times, like when I’m right in the middle of a page! I am reminded again of Judith Merrill, who had the same sorts of complaints about computers.

But, that being said, yes, you do have to backup your backups, even with paper, in case of flooding or whatever. To that end, I have invested in appropriate containers to preserve key portions of same from fire and other damage.

[Anonymous @]

@ichabod
“family trees….And I did write some books with maps . . . but no damn glossaries.”

Yes I’ve done maps and family trees and I was on the road to inventing entire languages (having been a student of some as well as of linguistics) but think I will now pass on that and follow the more practical route of referring to them, without the necessity of actually inventing them.–Okay, maybe the odd word here or there, but no glossary as the context should be sufficient, something I have seen other novelists do successfully.

I do think, however, that the story should be able to stand on its own and that these other devices are extras. Otherwise, they can actually get in the way or at least I find that to be the case when I am reading. When I am writing I think I mostly use them to help me stay organized but if I write well enough, I think the reader should be able to get along without taking a map reading course. 😉

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime

I thought it was a funny story actually.

And your tale about computer crashes? Not true- always.  I have had the computer freeze but I have never lost any information (not since 1994, when I first had a computer) unless I deleted it foolishly.

Ah, hang on, you need to be prepared to spend a decent amount on the computer and the files have to be cleaned up twice a year. All crashes come from two things – a poor software protection programme and the failure of the loser to adequately clean out and back up the computer. In Aus a good terabyte back up is $500 and I find that they last for many years.

Kindest Puro.

<-_->

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@missy- apologies- I forgot you weren’t in Britain. I don’t know where you live in Australia but a quick google search showed me there are shops over there- some refer to vaping, some e-cigarette, one called ‘whysmoke’. Incidentally, though I tend to stick to menthol and cherry flavour (I used to smoke cherry menthol tobacco) on the ground of I’m not a child and if I want sweets, I’ll eat sweets and not smoke them- there is a Ginger Bread flavour that is rather nice…

[Miapatrick @miapatrick]

@janetteb,@Arbutus: my housework schedule runs thus: someone is coming to the house (I insist on an hours warning; I resent the assumption that my house is permanently in a visitor ready state). Clear surfaces (random draws are great for that) sweep up sand and dog hair. Mop. Visitor leaves. Things pile up again. I plaintively ask how the kitchen gets so messy in such a short period of time. Mother washes up. I re-wash her washing up. Foodstuff gets thrown into the larder. Twice a year I reorganise the larder. The order lasts for about a week. The good thing, since we moved, is that there is almost no mud, but lots of sand. Sand on the floor isn’t as bad as mud. The worst thing is my desk, because I do work better with a nice tidy desk, but how do you make it stay that way? Until recently we’ve had at least one very elderly little dog who I have had to chase around with the mop and bucket, but nowadays I have, unfortunately, a lot more time on my hands. But I’d rather use it to take the dogs for a walk, and saw up bits of tree that have washed up on the shore for firewood and load them up on my boyfriends mobility scooter than tidy the house…

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime.

Goodness I’m laughing on the floor. Mrs Malaprop has entered the room.

I wrote: “All crashes come from two things – a poor software protection programme and the failure of the loser to adequately clean out and back up the computer.”

I meant “user” not “loser”

Also, it did crash once -about two months ago when I was visiting a vulnerable site (claiming to be The Poke and it wasn’t) . Something I never do, and, where I worked, such entanglements weren’t permitted.

Still, I’ve lost valuable paper items- floods I mentioned above and was particularly annoying. But things come to us and then they leave: it’s the nature of life, I suppose. It doesn’t pay to become too attached.

Kindest, Puro and Son (Son is typing now)

[Missy @missy]

A quick note.

Reading all your posts is a treat, but time is against me. I shall get back to them tomorrow.

Ttfn

Missy

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@stitchintime

Having had a number of hard drive crashes and software incompatibility issues,

My a Mac. Buy a LaCie Rugged 1tb hard drive. Plug HD into Mac. Launch Time Machine, follow instructions. Never lose data again. Not sure of Windows machines have similar, but will be surprised if they don’t. Ditto Linux.

The loss of data is always the consequence of inadequate back ups, whether on a computer or through failing to use carbon paper (and keeping the CC off-site).

[janetteB @janetteb]

In my opinion it is never possible to have sufficient back ups. I carry two hard drives with me now. Back in December 2009 my laptop motherboard, friend, the third motherboard in as many years and we decided it wasn’t worth replacing again. I borrowed a laptop swapping the hard drives. At that time my desk top back up hard drive was full so I only had the portable hard drive back up which was in my laptop bag in case the hard drive went the way of the motherboard. Was working on a photography assignment. Rushed in, dumped the laptop bag by the table and headed off to a neighbour’s christmas party. Got back at midnight to find the back door open and no laptop. There were four teenagers in the house at the time but of course they were playing games in the next room and did not notice a thing.

I lost about three months work and basically meant the project did not go ahead as planned which was disappointing. Luckily my writing was backed up on a two gig usb. Now my back up hard drives are never more than a few feet from me. I also find that having regular back ups of writing helps if I really stuff up. I can always go back to a previous save. Talking of which a back up is in order now.

Cheers

Janette

[Anonymous @]

@puroandson
“All crashes come from two things – a poor software protection programme and the failure of the loser to adequately clean out and back up the computer. In Aus a good terabyte back up is $500 and I find that they last for many years.”

Crashes happen regardless of what you do and sometimes the backups fail too. In fact, for the files in question I had two backups and they both failed.

You’ve been lucky so far and so was I for a long time and then I had two failures, one right in the middle of a project that I had to redo because the two backups failed as well. My information comes from people who work in the computer field. They were the ones who told me, “there are two kinds of hard drives; those that have failed and those that haven’t yet.” They fail for all kinds of reasons and nobody is safe from data loss.

[Anonymous @]

@stitchintime

You’re prickly, aren’t you? 🙂

that’s OK, so am I -occasionally.

You claim I’ve been lucky.

Sorry, dude. I’ve been smart. I use a good laptop. And as for “knowing people” -I used to work with those same people you speak of. At Defence. Their problems were minimal because they had to be.

Inadequate backup; not knowing what you’re doing; poor computers and the problem the user brings to the table.

Not impossible to have an almost risk free computer.

But I imagine it’s sad to lose your life’s work of: writing. As  I said, $500 and you’re in the clear.

Air Computers work too -but they’re exy.

That’s me out of this conversation.

[Anonymous @]

oh @stitchintime -read what @pedant had to say. Wise words.

[Anonymous @]

@pedant  -just to you, here.

Carbon Copy Cloner is pretty great -I’m pretty new to macs -maybe 3 years? Defence tend to use a variety of mis-matched specifically created computers for each person’s use. Can’t lose the stuff because it’s a custom create item. Mad really, or that’s what I thought….

CC is good though and Time Machine is where people need to start. 5 ways of backing  up material for the paranoid’s guide to loss is helpful

Migration Kit Pro is available for Windows thru Zinstall which I’ve used on my Windows 7 XP and on 8.1. I don’t have 10 at the moment. Waiting for the glitches to be shucked off. Will invest in a Mac for Son anyway  -best choice. Easiest methods for ensuring loss doesn’t occur. PCs are much more difficult.

PuroSolo

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

@stitchintime

And sometimes the planet is hit by giant flaming meteorites – it is about managing that which can be managed. To not take proper backups because they might fail is as silly as chucking a burning cigarette butt into a library waste paper bin. The key is redundancy.

@puroandson

Yup – CCC is very good and highly regarded, but Time Machine’s ease is that it is built in to the OS. It has saved my arse on two occasions (including HD failure) and a friend has just completed his third back-from-the-dead-with-zero-loss Time Machine recovery (his machines tend to take a trashing). One should assume that an external HD will become liable to fail after 4 years and replace it as back up device.

As ever, there are theories of what might be lost and there is evidence of what actually is.

[IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan @pedant]

PS @puroandson

Have just had to install Windows 10 onto a virtual machine on my Mac. Oh, Microsoft. What were you thinking?

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@pedant  @puroandson

I have just today been hearing about the problems with Windows 10, and am just glad that I don’t have to go that route. We are a household of Mac users, and I agree regarding the excellence of Time Machine. My husband has worked in IT for years and has often quoted that line about the two kinds of hard drives. He has set up various servers in our house over the years where we store different types of backups, and is a big advocate of backups to multiple places, as @janetteb suggests. The tech is great nowadays, small devices that hold huge amounts of stuff. As a result, I am about as confident as I can be that I will probably never lose anything too critical. And I tend to be conservative about new tech, I’m not an early adopter of just about anything!

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@miapatrick      Do you know what’s the worst thing that gets tracked into our house? The little bits of rubber that come up out of all-weather artificial turf playing fields. We have a lot of those in Vancouver due to it raining much of the winter when soccer is on, and the cleats end up full of these tiny rubber balls that end up all over the kitchen floor. Argh.

The red dirt from a baseball diamond is also pretty bad. Every so often I make noises about getting one of those Roomba robot vacuums, that zip around the floor sucking stuff up. Our vacuum has a permanent home in the hall next to the kitchen door, because it is almost constantly in use.

[Author]

Posts