The Next Doctor (2)

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  • #24897
    blackthorn @blackthorn

    Oh no, not saving the Ponds!   We’ve moved on from that, surely.    Too much of a retrograde step.

    I can certainly see him not consenting to be bossed by Clara!   And what is River Song going to make of him, if and when….

    #24898
    Anonymous @

    I’m sure some of you will know by now but Peter Capaldi isn’t wearing DM’s, they are in fact Loakes.

    #24971
    Brewski @brewski

    The Scene I Want to See:

    Clara and the newly regenerated Doctor find themselves in the Whitechapel district of London in 1888, at the heart of one of the greatest mysteries of all time: Jack the Ripper.

    The Doctor grandly declares that there is only one man who is capable of solving this mystery!

    At that moment, an unidentified man, played as a cameo by Benedict Cumberbatch, passed between them with a polite, “I beg your pardon.”

    Clara, after a moment of staring after the departing man says “Sherlock Holmes?”

    The Doctor gives her a withering look. “Don’t be absurd, young lady! Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character. I’m referring to myself!”

     

    #24973
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @brewski

    Aha, a puzzle. I worked out a lovely complicated explanation for why the Doctor doesn’t remember what happened in DotD. Then I looked at your question again. If you are asking why the War Doctor specifically doesn’t remember, then that’s easy. Because he regenerated immediately afterward and didn’t get the chance to remember or not.

    In fact, that’s a actually a cool thought. Maybe Nine, Ten, and Eleven didn’t remember saving Gallifrey because Captain Grumpy regenerated immediately afterward, and regeneration confusion/memory loss set in and removed the recollection from his mind. Although, the doctors all did seem to know that they wouldn’t remember, in any case.

    My other explanation has to do with the Tenth Doctor’s line “The time streams are out of sync”, and some confused thoughts about what that actually means vis a vis the dual time stream theory. I think that the period of time when the three doctors are together is the point of divergence. But eventually time heals itself, and brings those two time streams into sync with one another, leaving only the smallest differences between the two. This is why the doctor will forget: all three incarnations are aware of both streams of events now, because the time streams are still out of sync, but once they are realigned, the doctor will forget what happened when they were out of sync.

    In answer to question 2, the answer is no. Not remotely!  🙂

    #24975
    Arbutus @arbutus

    Agh. I tried twice to remove the preceding post and didn’t seem to be able to make it work. The edit function will apparently let you make changes, but not completely delete something. Please disregard it, I have reposted it in its proper place on The Day of the Doctor Thread.

    #24979
    Whisht @whisht

    The scene I want to see?

    The Doctor and Clara on their first adventure meeting some humans. The humans introduce themselves:

    “Hello, I am Paul and you are..?”

    “I’m the Doctor”

    “and this is your…. grand daughter?”

    “No!” [shocked]

    “A-apologies, your.. daughter??”

    “No! erm this is my…. my companion Clara”

    Companion? oh, of course…”

    all the while Clara is busy trying to interject but not knowing what to say.

    #24988
    Anonymous @

    hello @hassanali  you must love the Doctor as we do! welcome. Perhaps you could go the Doctor Who Memories page on this forum and explain which was your first and favourite doctor and all the reasons why. Perhaps you could also disucss who your most favoured doctor of the New Period happens to be (Eccleston, or the others?). Look forward to lots of posts. Kindest, purofilion

    #25030
    Doctor_How @doctorhow

    Sorry this is my first time posting so apologies if this is in the wrong thread or anything. I just had a couple of questions:

    1) I’ve seen a few posts theorizing that Clara is the daughter or granddaughter of River and The Doctor. Having recently watched a bit of series 7, the scene where Clara (more specifically an ‘echo’ of Clara) kisses The Doctor in ‘The Snowmen’, I find it a little hard to see SM making those two related. I’m wondering how you guys feel about this?

    2) In TotD, The Doctor states that he had used up his final regeneration turning into the 11th (or 12th or 13th or whatever we’re calling it) Doctor. But in ‘The Impossible Astronaut’, when The Doctor is ‘killed’, he is shown to start a new regeneration before it is interrupted. Is this simply a mistake, the Teselecta pretending to regenerate, or something more?

    #25033
    Anonymous @

    @doctorhow

    Welcome, good questions 😉

    I think there might be answers to your first question somewhere…probably under the Snowmen episode, which would be under the eleventh doctor forum discussion.  Personally I would like Clara to not be related because of the kiss.  But technically it wasn’t the real Clara, so it might be Ok if they were related?

    Your second question has puzzled me too.  I think that Eleven definitely had some regeneration energy left inside of him.  He even uses some in the episode tATM when he healed River’s broken wrist.  So maybe the energy we saw in tIA was similar energy.  But it wasn’t enough to completely regenerate.  I do think it was the Doctor who River shot in tIA (not the Teselecta) because energy came out, and no energy came out when she shot him in tWoRS episode. He changed his future.

    #25037
    Anonymous @

    @barnable and @doctorhow -welcome to you. I would second Barnable’s excellent answer. In the Impossible Astronaut,  he did indeed die. In the Wedding of River Song, he didn’t and he used the tesselecta which enabled him to change his future. Changing his past/future is pretty natural to him now -in the BG episodes, not so much. Kindest,  purofilion

     

    #25048
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @barnable  @purofilion  @doctorhow    Interesting. I’m not sure if it has been suggested before that the doctor actually changed his past in tWoRS. I think it’s usually assumed that he was always in the Tesselecta, faking regeneration. But I guess if we are assuming the two-timestream scenario in some cases, it’s open season on all the others.  🙂

    #25112
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    I am looking forward to see how well Peter Capaldi does as the next doctor. I don’t mind that he’s older, because that’s not my main appeal to the show of drooling over Doctors. Besides the Fourth and Tenth, I have weird attractions anyway and the show is more about which Doctor I can relate to personality wise. I hope I won’t be burned in effigy for my confession, but I never gotten attached to the Eleventh. Although, I use his quote of “stupid backwards nonsense” sometimes in my daily conversations, I was not so sad to see him go, like I was for the Ninth and Tenth. I felt angry with the Ninth regeneration and nearly cried for the Tenth. The Eleventh… well, I felt sad for Handles (and The Ponds, of course)! So, I’m ready for the next one.

    I’m not so sure about Clara either. I loved her when she first appeared as “Souffle girl” and also as the babysitter, but her character development seemed to halt after that, at least in my opinion. I’m not sure how her relationship with the new Doctor will be, but hopefully she may evolve to a pretty good companion. I can’t wait to see how River Song will react to the new Doctor, I look forward to that! 😀

    #25117
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @faegrl   Agreed that “drooling over the Doctor” is not my priority (although I can certainly do that over an older doctor, being somewhat older myself!). I know what you mean, it’s hard not to fear flaming when you share a view that goes contrary to that of the many! I loved the Eleventh Doctor myself, but agree that no one is to everyone’s taste. In return, you won’t hate me for saying that, unlike many people on here, I am hoping that we have seen the last of River. I quite liked River, most of the time, but I felt that her goodbye in NotD was so poignant (really one of the most moving and believable moments of that relationship, I thought) that I would hate to see it weakened by making the character essentially immortal.

    #25119
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @arbutus Well… I do like older men in general and Peter Capaldi is not a bad looking fellow at all. LOL! Although, I’d have to see him in action first to make my final conclusion. Hey, I’m just glad I haven’t been flamed yet for the Eleventh Doctor comment. I understand why fans love him so much and how protective people can become over their favorites. However, I’m crispy from the flames I’ve gotten before (mainly on Facebook)… some of the flames were from my very own sister. :-p

    It’s a touchy subject so I do understand! And yep, I totally respect your view on River. I just miss her is all, but you’re right about her goodbye being very poignant and maybe I should learn to let her go…. like I finally had to do with the Ponds. Gah… now, I’m having Pond-feels again… However, isn’t River Song a lady Timelord? And aren’t Time Lords kind of immortal? I could be totally backwards on that, sorry if I am.

    #25123
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    Have I posted in this thread before…? Errr… anyhow, I just wanted to say I’m rather excited to find out how Capaldi will portray the Doctor. Very happy we have an older Doctor again this time too, and personally… I want them to at least downplay the romantic aspect for the Doctor that the show has taken on recently… just not keen on it. I think it takes away some mystery to the character. Of course this is just my opinion.

    And as Clara has been mentioned… I would also like to say I actually preferred Oswin. (Dalek Oswin!)

    #25127
    Anonymous @

    @monochromedimension

     I normally just wait to see what the new Doctor will be like, without any preferences, but your post got me thinking and a lot of ideas started to pop into my head. 

     I think that the AG doctors have generally been happy go lucky types.  They seem to view “all of time and space” as their playground.  Often times they ask the companions, “Where would you like to go next?” Then away they go in the TARDIS, looking forward to all the fun and adventure that awaits them.

     I would like Capaldi to be different now.  I want him to have an aversion to excitement and disdain for adventure and fun.  His mind should be entirely focused on the serious task of finding an answer for safely releasing the TLs from the paintings.  Since he is an older doctor, I think he should complain a bit and be set in his ways about what he likes and especially what absolutely doesn’t like.  “Kidneys…I don’t like the color?!” would be perfect first words this personality.  That would make me laugh, as the bubbly Impossible Girl begs for some excitement, while the Crusty Doc insists on anything but.

     However, finding the answer to releasing the TLs isn’t something you just Google.  And the Doctor has been looking for the answer for a very long time, so he has to try looking in some new places he hasn’t been before.  Where (since he IS the Doctor) he finds himself chin deep in trouble every place he goes, no matter how much he tries to avoid it. Clara of course loves every bit of it, and the Doctor not so much. 😆

    #25136
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @barnable – Oh I like your ideas for the Twelfth Doctor; I too want him to be quite different from the more recent Doctors (that being said though, the Ninth was pretty different to the Tenth and Eleventh). But yes, a more serious Doctor I am hoping for too, and I hope the main focus is finding Gallifrey… very interested in knowing what the Time Lords are doing right now. In personality I want him to be more like the First, Third or Seventh. I was so happy Gallifrey had been saved, I really did not like the idea of it being gone in NuWho.

    Now… they just need to sort out what the heck is going on with Skaro…

    #25139
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @barnable @monochromedimension     I must say that, while I also hope for a change in energy from the new doctor, a little more gravitas, I can’t imagine the Doctor ever avoiding trouble or objecting to interfering in other people’s issues. Even the First and Third, the most serious of the incarnations, never hesitated to jump right into things. I think that if you change that, you change something pretty basic about the Doctor’s personality. He has always been a meddler, and always believed that he knew better than most others how things ought to be meddled with (so to speak). And he has never minded causing a disturbance or putting himself in danger.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a return to a habit some of the BG Doctors shared, that of simply materializing someplace with a purpose that they had never shared with the companion. Said companion thinks they are somewhere for a spot of sightseeing, and then suddenly they are being chased or shot at, or the Doctor is saying, “Aha! I knew this would be here.” And so on. A return to sometimes landing places they didn’t mean to go would also be great.

    While I am looking forward to seeing where they take the Gallifrey thread, I actually hope that it isn’t the main event of the series. I would prefer it if, like some past series arcs, it was the connecting theme but not always front and centre.

    #25141
    Whisht @whisht

    hmm, less gallivanting and more seriousness. With a cheeky companion in tow.

    Is that what I want…? I guess… maybe….. but…

    I’m a child of the Fourth (rather than the Third), and so I love my cheeky/ childish/ thrill-seeking and serious-when-it-matters, but most of all I’m happy to see change

    its the only constant!

    😉

    #25184
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @whisht – I agree with you. I was also a child of the Fourth, so the cheesier and childish a Doctor is the more I like him. HOWEVER, I didn’t quite like the Eleventh because he was too much over-the-top cheesy. He was just one step away from being “Patch Adams”, which would have been OK in some adventures but in angry situations I had a hard time taking him seriously. For example, when the Ninth was angry, I thought to myself, “Wow… watch out!” and when the Tenth was angry I thought, “Eep! Run and hide!” When the Eleventh was angry, I was confused and often wondering, “Wait… is he angry? Nah, he’s just having a moody day. I think?” Although, I did enjoy his speeches towards angry mobs of warring ships or Daleks. He was goofy, but his words of “bring it on!” sent chills up my spine all the same.

    I hope the next Doctor has a good combination of goofiness and seriousness, starkly serious during huge threats in the universe and wacky adventurous during every other time.

    #25314
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    z

    #25319
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    Yes, @wolfweed , I totally agree! LOL! When I first saw the next Doctor, I felt like a Deja Vu kind of feeling. Then I realized that his style is so similar to the Third Doctor! Unfortunately I haven’t gotten to know the Doctors before the Fourth. I keep meaning to, but every time I watch the retro episodes I start with the Fourth and then move forward. One of these days I’ll stop being so stubborn and check out the First, Second, and Third. After all, there would be no series if it weren’t for those three aliens. :-p
    I totally like the new Doctor’s retro style, however. 🙂

    #25320
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @faegrl – You need to watch some Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee serials! lol. All three are brilliant Doctors, and there are some great stories. I am a big fan of the 60s black and white serials (hence username!) and the First Doctor is my favourite.

    I’m rather happy with Capaldi’s Doctor’s style, I like the fact its more reminiscent of the old series.

    #25322
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @monochromedimension – Yes, I so do need to watch them! And I don’t mind black and white serials at all. I do have some time to spend this weekend (aka: I have no real social life! lol), so I may just plant myself in front of the laptop screen and spend some hours with Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee. That is if I don’t get distracted and lured away by stupid Youtube videos first.
    I have the attention span of fruit fly, sometimes. 😉

    #25323
    Anonymous @

    Hello @faegrl – For a wonderful introduction to the pre-Baker (T) Doctors, try this link on this very site –

    HTPBDET – The Doctors

    You can visit William Hartnell

    … or Patrick Troughton

    … or Jon Pertwee

    HTPBDET was a remarkable addition to this site and we all were in mourning for his sad death last October. But he left his writing legacy here. I hope you enjoy all of his work. Start from his Hartnell posting and read on through the rest of the Doctors, and regeneration, and his other various thoughts. You won’t be disappointed.

    #25324
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @ScoutTheAiredale – Thanks for the tip! I shall read every article there, for sure. And I’m so sorry about HTPBDET’s passing. Many hugs to that. 🙁
    But yes, I shall enjoy his work here on the forum! Thanks for sharing it with me! 😀

    #25329
    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @faegrl – I’m glad I’m not alone in not totally adoring the Eleventh Doctor (although you’re braver than me in admitting it right out – I’ve been a little shy of saying I find him too much the over-excited Labrador pup).  I’m hoping for a little more quiet anger from his successor.

    Even  Ten, my favourite of the newer Doctors, could be a bit “shouty” in expressing his anger for my taste, but Twelve…. well I’ve been enjoying “The Musketeers” very much and Mr Capaldi as Cardinal Richelieu has provided some of my favourite moments.  He can do “quiet menace” incredibly well, and there were a couple of scenes in last week’s episode where he was baiting people and it was very much like watching a cat with an injured mouse on the end of his paw.  I’m afraid I watched it and thought after “Oh, I’d love to see the Doctor treat the Daleks with that kind of cold contempt!”

     

    #25331
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @confusedpolarity – Thank you for the compliment of being “brave”, I love that! Although, I figured it to be “stubbornness” and possibly “social suicide” to admit right out that I never got attached to Eleventh. And yes, it’s the quiet anger that caused me to adore both Ninth and Tenth Doctors. They were a lot silly and goofy like the Eleventh, but often you would catch that glimpse that if you made the Doctor angry enough, he wouldn’t hesitate to destroy you completely. I think Donna Nobel (one of my most favorites of the companions) described it best when she said to the Tenth, “That place was flooded and burning and they were dying, and you stood there like… I don’t know, a stranger. And then you made it snow! I mean you scare me to death.”  That’s the kind of Doctor that fascinates and scares me at the same time. The Eleventh just didn’t have that kind of aura at all, even when the story was written that way around him. A lot of fans didn’t like the Tenth too well, because he did have that kind of cold contempt, they often said he was “too dark”. Although, I enjoyed watching the Tenth go through that phase, as the very first Doctor is said to be a lot mean and unforgiving as well. It’s great that the Doctor is warm and caring, silly and childish, witty and very clever, but his dark side is very much a part of who he is, as well. He is a Time Lord after all and it’s best not to ever forget it. 🙂

    So, I’m hoping that Capaldi adds a bit of that to his role! He doesn’t have to add as much as Tennant or Eccleston, but a bit wouldn’t hurt., I think.

    #25333
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @confusedpolarity  @faegrl

    I completely agree about missing the Doctor’s dark side. To be honest, although I have enjoyed all the AG doctors, none of them have nailed it one hundred percent for me. But my benchmark will always be the Fourth Doctor, who I think really nailed that combination of silliness and menace, youthful exuberance and age-weary cynicism, that for me makes the Doctor who he is. Balance is important, and for me, Tom Baker got it absolutely right.

    Nine had the cynicism, but not really the goofiness or enthusiasm. He tried to portray those qualities, but I didn’t often believe them; to me, he was most believable in his anger, or his cold alien side. Ten had the positive attributes in spades, and could be hard and unforgiving, but his anger was often loud rather than menacing, and he didn’t always feel alien enough. His darkness always felt too human to me. Now, Eleven had the crazy alien down perfectly, and the youthful excitement, and he did cynical reasonably well, but he didn’t really ever frighten me, although he did get angry. It’s often said that he played an old man in a young body, and I think that was sometimes true, but I thought it came across best in his melancholy moments. He got angry, but never felt menacing.  He never really scared me. And I feel that the Doctor should be scary, sometimes.

    So yes, I’d love to see that balance back. The Doctor who could shift between “Oh, look, wow, a cool new alien!”, “Oh, Daleks, you want to exterminate me, of course you do, how boring.”, “You fool, if you push that button, the universe as we know it will disappear forever.”, and yes, even, “Run, Companion, RUN!” (I love writing doctor dialogue, it’s terribly fun.)

    And am I showing my age too much when I suggest that maybe, maybe, the Doctor’s dialogue could be less trendy Earth teenager, and a little more thousand-year-old Time Lord?   🙄

    #25334
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @faegrl @confusedpolarity @arbutus Basically just tagging everyone in this conversation!

    About the dark side of the Doctor… personally I think no other Doctor has ever been as dark and manipulative as the Seventh. Now don’t go just thinking about his first season, I’m not talking about those serials. He later, in season 25 and 26, becomes an incredibly mysterious and manipulative character; a dark chessmaster, playing games with his enemies and companions. Now I’m not saying I want Capaldi’s Doctor to be the same (because seriously, I adore the Seventh and love his uniqueness), but perhaps some similar traits would be interesting. The Seventh was very brooding and melancholy.

    Oh and about the First Doctor; only at the beginning of the series was he rather uncaring about humans (the infamous rock scene/just running past Barbara/contemplating ejecting both Ian and Barbara out of the TARDIS). Because of his travels with Ian and Barbara he became more caring, and instead of being just a strict authority figure, in his later episodes the First was more of a eccentric scientist (though yes, he could still be pretty strict when he wanted to be!), with quite a sweet nature. But he still was quite alien, and very mysterious (hence why the First and Seventh are my favourite Doctors; they’re mysterious!). Ian and Barbara are two of the most important companions the Doctor has ever had, because they changed him into who he is today… without them, the Doctor would not be the same. And when they leave him, he does say he will miss them.

    #25335
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @arbutus  – I completely agree! I think the Fourth Doctor had the best balance of menacing and whimsy. I’m not sure, but I think the first episode that Tom Baker appeared in, he punched out a human in order to escape containment and wonder around a military base to find its secret project? It was a long time since I saw that episode, so I forget… I do remember he started as a real firecracker. Anyway, I agree that he is the master of showing both the dark side of the alien and not just the friendly side. And it’s true that the Ninth never quite made it to showing a more whimsical side, although I like him because he was the “first” to get me excited about the show once again, because I did try *cough* “Torchwood” first and was highly disappointed when I found out it was NOTHING like my childhood show and just a “space brothel” in my view. I am so not a prude, but after searching a season of that for actual story and content among the many scenes of everyone kissing each other, having sex with each other, no one loyal to anyone type of situation, I became a lot disgusted that it was ever connected to Doctor Who in any way. :-p

    And yes, the Tenth is LOUD sometimes in his anger and I agree that his menacing was a lot human. Although, I liked it and was afraid of it at the same time. Eleventh was never menacing to me, even when he was meant to be, and that’s why I never really connected with him. He was just too silly and sometimes over-the-top so. I don’t think you’re showing your age at all, I wouldn’t mind more “grown up” conversations in the show and less teen speak that I often have to look up to understand. However, I think we forget that Doctor Who was always meant to be a children’s show, even though more adults seem to love it.

    @monochromedimension – Ah, thanks for explaining the First Doctor more! I admit that I’m a “newbie” to the entire series, because I haven’t yet had the pleasure to get to know the Doctors before the Fourth (I’m working on it!). I don’t know why I keep forgetting about the Seventh, as I do love him and enjoyed his serials. I haven’t seen all of them yet (just the first two), but he does have what I like best in the Doctor, that menacing and melancholy aura. I guess I’m showing my true colors here, that I’m attracted to brooding types. LOL! Not too brooding, mind you, but with a very fun and silly side to them. Add mysterious to that and I’ll travel with that Doctor anywhere he wants to go! Maybe I’m just a bit too picky in general. If Capaldi has all three of those qualities as the next Doctor, he will become another favorite of mine right away. He already has my approval for his outfit and age. 😉

    One more slight for the Eleventh… I hated his fashion choices. Bow ties are NOT cool and fezzes are even worse! Or that’s my opinion anyway. I never judge a man by his clothing, but that was just one small thing that annoyed me silly about the last Doctor. I cheered when River destroyed the fez, even though it was short lived and he acquired another.

    #25336
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @faegrl – No problem! I hope you enjoy the serials, the First Doctor really is amazing. Just it takes a while before he trusts Ian and Barbara and vice versa.

    Oh I’m really quite in love the Seventh Doctor. lol! In McCoy’s first season he is much more clownish with just a hint of his darker persona, so I’m not sure if you would have watched a serial with him at his most manipulative. He really does change quite a bit in the next two seasons. I suggest serials such as ‘Curse of Fenric’, ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’, ‘Ghost Light’ (even though that one is rather confusing) and ‘Greatest Show in the Galaxy’. Absolutely adore the Seventh… I’d love to travel with him… and great, now everyone knows I’m a ‘fangirl’ of the Seventh Doctor…

    On the notion of fezzes… I like ’em! Other than that the Eleventh’s outfit isn’t my favourite. I like Capaldi’s outfit though!

    #25338
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @monochromedimension – This is why I love Doctor Who so much, because it has so many serials, Doctors, and companions to get to know and love… or not love so much. I have plenty to learn and experience within the long history of Who and I can’t help but to feel excited like a little girl over that fact! It feels like Christmas!

    Don’t worry, I’m a total fangirl for the Fourth and Tenth, so you’re in good company. It’s a good thing that the Doctor isn’t a “pedobear” type, because if I had the chance I’d run off in a blue police box that travels through space and time with strange men, without a thought! And no offense about the fezzes, I just don’t like hats in general, especially if they’re very silly ones. HOWEVER, I do think the Eleventh looked very nice in a stetson! Stetsons are cool. And I was sad when River shot that one away. LOL!

    As for Capaldi’s wardrobe, I’ve heard some fans complain that “something is missing”. I don’t see what could be missing, but they explain that every Doctor has a special accessory that speaks to their personality, which is true. Eleventh had the bow-tie and fez, Tenth had the trainers (the same kind that I love to wear every summer, by the way), Ninth had the leather jacket, Fifth had the decorative celery, and the Fourth had the epic scarf, and so on for all the other Doctors. I’m curious as to what the next Doctor will have, if anything. Or maybe the writers of the show are abandoning the idea? The attire is just a tiny part of it, I believe, so I’m happy with Capaldi if his personality is wonderful. I do believe I’m picky because I’m still looking for the Fourth in every Doctor I meet. None of them could ever be him or vice versa, but I still cling to any trait he may have had in others.

    #25339
    Monochrome Dimension @monochromedimension

    @faegrl – The fact that there’s so many Doctors means there’s really a Doctor for everyone, you’re going to at least like one of them! lol

    I did think that Capaldi’s Doctor’s outfit needs something… maybe a cravat… I dunno. The outfit is good its just missing something. The Second Doctor also wore a bowtie (as did the Third for a while). But the Eleventh Doctor does have some similarities to the Second (though I personally prefer Troughton, he really is a brilliant Doctor), I think Smith was also a good Doctor… I just haven’t watched that many of his episodes.

    #25343
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @monochromedimension – Yes! I suspect that I’ll have a handful of favorites, by the time I get done watching all of the Doctor Who episodes. Although, I hear that the BBC lost many of the episodes and they’re lost? I’m sorry for that, but I retain my goal to watch every episode that I can find. 🙂

    Ha! Yes, maybe a cravat would do! I’m looking forward to getting to know the First, Second, and Third! And more of the Seventh, Sixth, and… Eight? I’m nervous about Eight. I know of the Fifth pretty well and he’s not bad at all. And yes, I watched every episode of the Eleventh. I wanted to give him a fair chance, because I didn’t like the Tenth at first… I was angry because he replaced the Ninth so quickly and my reaction to him was, “What a cheap trick! They replaced the Doctor with a pretty-boy in order to draw in the female audience!” However, I couldn’t resist after the the “New, new, new, new, new New York.” line and I tried. By the time “Barefoot on the moon”, with the “Judoon Platoon upon the moon”  was uttered, I gave up pretending that I didn’t like the Tenth and confessed that it wasn’t just Rose that caused me to follow the episodes, it was the Doctor. I was hoping it would happen with the Eleventh, but it never did. 🙁

    #25354
    ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity

    @arbutus – there are positives and negatives in all the AG Doctors for me: Nine was too grim (those big cheesy grins to accompany the odd “fantastic!” never convinced) and lacking the Doctor’s essential humour; Ten, much as I loved him, was too much inclined to think declaiming “I’m the Doctor!” n a loud, defiant manner was being authoritative – although Tennant can pretty much match Eccleston for menace.  And on the dialogue – maybe it’s my age showing through but I agree wholeheartedly!  I’ve cringed sometimes hearing the Eleventh wittering on like my fifteen year old nephew!

    The Doctor hasn’t ben properly scary  in much too long, and I think you can get away with generally scarier stories (I’m going back to my own childhood and the Fourth Doctor here) when the Doctor has that aura of “however scary you are, pal, I can scare right back!” about him.  That’s what I mean about Capaldi’s ability to do quiet menace. I can just imagine him giving a Dalek a “look” and asking, very calmly, if it can’t think of something a bit more imaginative than “Exterminate!” to say sometime 🙂

    I’m very much with @faegrl on Eleven – his darker side was swamped by the silliness. I blame the writing way more than I do Matt Smith; I’ve always rather felt Moffat looked at his leading man and thought “my God, you’re brilliant at this kooky, silly stuff.  Let’s give you more of it!”

    I wish he hadn’t.  In the quieter, less manic moments, Eleven was at his most effective to me.

    I also don’t care for bow ties, fezzes, or chattering on about things being cool. He’s the Doctor. That automatically makes him the coolest man in most rooms.  I’m hoping Capaldi will be allowed to play it that way.

    There’s something a bit gawky and gauche about Eleven; it’d be nice to see Twelve being more “this is me, live with it” if you get my meaning.

     

    #25360
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @monochromedimension, I also loved Seven. When he first appeared, he immediately became my favourite after Four, even in his “silly season”. I liked how he could go from light to dark with just a look. Four did that as well, but (without even realizing it at the time) I had missed it with Five and Six.

    Yes, @faegrl, it is of course a show intended (at least partly) for kids; however, I don’t think that means that a millenium-old character needs to be talking just like them, or that they would expect him to (kids are of course pretty smart about stuff like that!). @confusedpolarity, you see, it is fun writing Doctor dialogue, isn’t it? 🙂

    I actually quite liked the Eleventh doctor’s bow tie; as for the fez, I don’t think we were supposed to like it. I think that we, like Amy and River, were supposed to think it was fairly stupid; an example of the doctor’s childish glee rather than his good sense! But having been a choirgirl, I have always had a bit of an affection for bowties and suspenders! But I’m not sure that a special accessory is required. I don’t think that early Doctors necessarily had them, and even Nine’s leather jacket was more a part of his costume than an accessory. The Doctors have always worn coats. Earlier Doctors even used to change outifts from time to time; I believe that it was really with Five that they went into a full “costume” concept. And by the way, @faegrl, I’m completely with you on Ten’s sneakers; I have a pair of blue ones that I love to wear as soon as it stops raining!

    I think that the new Doctor’s “look” suggests that he is going to be more in the “authoritative” vein, which I think that we all agree will be a good thing! And @confusedpolarity, this is definitely the best statement of the day:

    He’s the Doctor. That automatically makes him the coolest man in most rooms.

    #25361
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @faegrl – the fez was supposed to be a silly joke, a one-off to help everyone follow the time-loop.

    But as Beth Willis presciently said, once you give Matt Smith a fez, the problem is going to be taking it off him. “It’ll be glued to his head.”

    Yup. 🙂

    @arbutus – The Third had his velvet jackets, the Seventh his hat, and while I don’t really remember Patrick Troughton, his recorder seems to be referred to quite often. The Fourth was, of course, the scarf. The Fifth was the celery. I don’t think either the Eighth or the Ninth really had an iconic costume icon.

    The First didn’t either – but that was because he wasn’t ‘The First’ during his run; there was no other Doctor. His entire costume was emblematic of ‘The Doctor’ – it wasn’t until Troughton that they needed to find some kind of costume motif to start distinguishing the various Doctors from their predecessor.

    It could be that they’re keeping Capaldi’s signature item hidden for as long as possible, or he might simply not have one. The thing that’s occurred to me is that we’re going from ‘bow-tie’ to ‘no-tie’. That might be entirely deliberate; something that’ll make a whole lot more sense when we see the first episode. 🙂

    #25364
    Arbutus @arbutus

    @bluesqueakpip  I guess that it depends what you consider to be an iconic item. Each Doctor always had his particular style or costume, and to me, most of the “accessories” were just part of the overall look (Tom Baker’s scarf probably being the exception). I certainly never thought of the Seventh Doctor’s hat as being anything other than the hat that went with his jacket (Four and Five often wore hats as well). And the velvet jackets and frilly shirts were just what the Third Doctor wore, as the Fifth wore cricket clothes and the Sixth wore that very bizarre jacket.

    I wonder whether Matt’s bow tie would have seemed so important if the writers hadn’t chosen to make it so? “Bow ties are cool” and so on. But I suppose it really depends on your point of view.

    I loved that remark by Beth Willis. It certainly suggests a lot of Eleventh Doctor/Matt Smith cross pollination of character. Maybe another human/time lord metacrisis?  🙂

    #25366
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @arbutus

    I wonder whether Matt’s bow tie would have seemed so important if the writers hadn’t chosen to make it so? “Bow ties are cool” and so on. But I suppose it really depends on your point of view.

    Well, yes, because we don’t know if the writers were feeding off Matt Smith. Actors very often find that they need a particular costume item to be ‘in’ the character.

    Was the bow tie important because of the ‘bow ties are cool’ running joke? Or was it important because Matt Smith didn’t feel like he ‘was’ the Doctor unless he had his bow tie on? And then the writers started riffing on that… in a way, the whole of The Eleventh Hour was a journey to that bow tie. 😉

    Certainly when the Doctor ‘retires’ during The Snowmen, he doesn’t wear a bow tie. And when Matt Smith has his ‘farewell’ scene in The Time of The Doctor he very deliberately takes the tie off. To me, it felt more like the bow tie symbolised something very important to the actor – and the writers and audience picked up on that.

    #25374
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @arbutus – Yes, that’s true. I don’t believe that a millennium old Time Lord should speak like a teen at all, so I do agree with you. I’m just commenting on the fact that the writers really do seem to want to draw in the younger audience, so perhaps that’s why they’re writing the dialogue in teen-speak for the Doctors? It’s just a theory, I could be wrong. Although, Matt Smith is the youngest Doctor in the history of Who and there would have been a time that such a young actor wouldn’t have been picked for the role. Also, Matt has been dubbed as “The Doctor who bought in the younger American crowd”. more so than Tennant is given credit. So, I was thinking perhaps that’s what the current writers are aiming for and they often say to fans who complain “It’s a children’s show, it was always intended for children” as a response. However, I would love it if the Doctors went back to a more adult kind of dialogue… that way I won’t feel so “old”, when I have to Google terms to understand the teen-speak. 😉

    Oh and a man in suspenders is just heavenly! I had no issue with the rest of Eleventh’s wardrobe, just the bow tie and fez. I do like the long tie, but somehow bow ties annoy me, somehow. But that’s just my personal taste on it. I mean no offense to all bow tie and fez lovers! 😀

    As for the trainers… I have a black pair and I loved the shoe WAY before the Tenth. I would often try to convince my friends and family to get a pair of their own, because I think Converse is cool. LOL! And then the Tenth walked onto the screen with them… it was very hard for me to dislike that Doctor, after that.

    @confusedpolarity – Yes! That’s the best line ever, I so agree with it: He’s the Doctor. That automatically makes him the coolest man in most rooms.
    That should be framed and hung on every wall, just in case anyone tries to forget it!
    Although, I didn’t mind the Eleventh saying that things were “cool”, it was kind of charming and I loved the way he said it. however, I just didn’t agree with the items he was dubbing as cool.Except for stetsons… Stetsons are cool.

    @bluesqueakpip – Ah, I see. I missed the silly joke of the fez. completely. Even so, it always annoyed me in a way, but it was just a tiny annoyance is all. I didn’t connect with the Eleventh for other reasons, however I so wanted to! I do love how well Matt Smith was around children, in general. I admire the actor. I respect his regeneration of the Doctor. However, I never got attached to the Eleventh is all. He wasn’t serious and “dark” enough for me, not brooding, and no moments of disappointing shock where I shake my head and think, “Don’t do that, Doctor! Get a hold of yourself, you’re traveling down a dark path now!” and then I get to watch him do the “right thing” in the end. I think I can relate to the Doctor the most when he makes moral mistakes… just like the rest of us, but is clever enough to turn it around to doing what’s good in a very positive way. The Eleventh seemed too ?perfect” to me.

    My… we’re so off topic on this thread! Wardrobe and personalities of other Doctors, besides the new one. I’m so sorry, I think I started this. :-p

    #25486
    Anonymous @

    Hello Guys,

    I have a college project due in tomorrow on Doctor Who and I really need your help as soon as possible.

    What would be an iconic image for the new doctor? I need to write a description on what image should be used (an iconic image) to showcase the new doctor, the twelfth doctor.

    I would really appreciate any help.

    Please private message me, It would be most appreciated.

    #25893
    missShannonKent @missshannonkent

    When it comes to Peter Capaldi, my only concern is his outfit. Seriously…he looks like a magician. I have no worries when it comes to his acting capabilities. I am more worried about the direction Moffat will decide to go. For me, Moffat either makes brilliant decisions, or terrible ones. I think the show, as well as the new Doctor will be great as long as Moffat keeps in mind two key things –

    1. Doctor Who is not his creation. He needs to keep reminding himself of who the Doctor is at his core so he doesn’t begin to create a new man entirely.

    2. It is no longer 1963. Don’t get me wrong, the show was just as fantastic in the 60’s as it is today. However; a few things could play out as more campy than cool for today’s viewers. For example, if Capaldi started using Venusian Aikido to fend off an enemy… I may have to turn off my television.

    Of course I will just have to wait and see what Moffat has in store for us. Until then I will just hope for the best (and pray to god old Bessie doesn’t make an appearance).

    -Shannon-

    Follow me on Facebook and Twitter @missShannonKent

    #25897
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @missshannonkent and @Purofillon – I’m answering this one in ‘The Next Doctor’ forum, because it seems to belong there much more than the sofa.

    Clara fancies the Doctor. She says so, under the influence of the truth field. She also loves him.

    But is she ‘in love’ with him? Doubtful. The entire ‘boyfriend’ thing in The Time of The Doctor is set up to show that Clara doesn’t want the Doctor as her boyfriend. In adult terms; not only have they never slept together, Clara doesn’t want that kind of relationship with the Doctor. She says so – as clearly as is possible in a family-friendly show.

    And, given the speed with which the Doctor agrees to being her boyfriend – it’s pretty clear that he fancies her. He is, however, also okay with just being good friends.

    Anyway, Moffat’s taken the Doctor through the pre-Hartnell backstory. He’s got married, he’s lost his parents, he’s become a widower. He’s an exile – but now he’s not running away from Gallifrey, he’s trying to find it. He is, it appears, about to travel with two teachers from Coal Hill School. Whether Danny Pink is about to be introduced as Clara’s boyfriend or whether he’s about to revive the fine old tradition of Companions accidentally wandering into the TARDIS (just before it takes off) remains to be seen. 🙂

    The elephant in the room, subtly pointed at in The Day of the Doctor, is the missing granddaughter. We’ve got everything set up for An Unearthly Child – except for the Unearthly Child. 😉

    #25898
    Anonymous @

    @missshannonkent  I think that Moffat is equal to anyone. His team of writers certainly have taken the show back to its origin. Also, I would heartily add that so-called campy qualities are what makes Who a very universal show loved by children. Returning to Aikido? Absolutely. It would be funny (particularly for the kids) and a real shout out to the show’s original creators. While Pertwee was doing the martial arts gig, the previous two Doctors had their quirks and abilities too. If his martial arts stuff had ‘failed’ I think a whole lot of other stuff would have gone down the proverbial gurgler as well. And yet, most of it stayed. Moreover, the point of regeneration is to create a whole new character. I think Capaldi will be very different to Smith just as Tennant was very different from McCoy. I don’t follow Twitter, sorry! Kindest, Purofilion

    #25991
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @bluesqueakpip and @purofilion – I couldn’t agree with you more. I have the same view that Clara is not “in love” with the Doctor and it would be a bit of a stretch. Although, some fans believe so and like to “ship” those two, because of the kiss and the sexual innuendo scene with the icy staircase. HOWEVER, that was one version of Clara who died, the version of her that is currently with the Doctor doesn’t seem too sexually interested in him or vice versa, And.. it’s kind of odd to think about this within a family-friendly show. This is not Torchwood, after all. However, Clara doesn’t fawn over the Doctor like Martha or Rose, so I do believe she fancies him and does love him, yet not romantically attracted to him. Or, I’ve never seen any evidence to that. Its true that the writers could change it, later on, but for now I think it’s too much of a stretch.

    And yes, although I don’t like how Moffat hardly finishes his plots well, I wouldn’t say he was worse or better than any other writer for the show. And without the campy qualities, that would be enough for me to turn off my television, because if I wanted “cool” and perfect special effects, I’m already a fan of many sci-fi shows like that. This show is special because it speaks to the child within me, not so much the adult who needs stories and effects to be a billion dollar standard, in order to enjoy it. If this show was just like any other, then I’d become very bored of it fast and move on.

    @missshannonkent – I do get what you mean, about some actors forgetting that they don’t own the Doctor. This is why Christopher Eccleston had such a short time of it, because he didn’t like where the writers were going with the character, and pretty much he wanted to own the character in his personal view. Then he quit and refused to do the Christmas special… I’m sorry, but my opinion of Mr. Eccleston is that he was a big baby and should have agreed to the Christmas special. I would hope that Capaldi will not do the same. It must be hard to play such a character that is suppose to have a part of the actor’s interpretation of the Doctor, yet not stray too far from what fans expect and view the Doctor. And I think that’s the point of the show’s title “Doctor Who”, as in “Who is he going to be this time around?”. However, I agree with the idea that every Doctor is suppose to be different, a new part of the whole, and that’s what makes the show such a success. If every Doctor was the same for over 50 years, that would be so very dull.

    And I do like Capaldi’s new outfit, very much, because it reminds me of the Third Doctor. Also, I don’t follow Twitter. I barely get on with Tumbrl and Facebook. Although, I’m sometimes tempted to make a Twitter account, because Stephen Fry is there… I love that guy! 🙂

    #25994
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @bluesqueakpip @Purofilion @missshannonkent @faegrl

    Interesting discussions, some of which have been touched on before.

    re actors “owning” the character – much like the story told at any given time is the story the writer wants to tell (and has no duty to uphold any notions of continuity unless they want to) – each actor needs to “own” the character in order to really deliver a performance that convinces.  As has been said, each incarnation of the Doctor is different, yet the same; maybe as we are to our own younger and older selves. (And we don’t know enough of Eccleston’s experience of it to be able to comment)

    Moffat is on record as saying that he has to sit on his own inner fanboy to deliver stories that he thinks will have a wider appeal. http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/nov/18/steven-moffat-doctor-who-interview    But he is still adept at leaving  open ends for endless speculation (25,000 posts on this forum alone) yet still dropping in refs to BG Who to keep the fanboys and girls happy. Venusian Aikido – bring it on!!

    Personally I think the relationship between various Doctors and companions are generally ambiguous enough to allow for shipping* or platonic according to taste.

     

    *thanks to @juniperfish for extending my vocabulary

    #25997
    Anonymous @

    @scaryb  @missshannonkent  and @faegrl  I’m sorry (I’m dull witted) but what is *shipping?? Grief! so much to learn. Yes, I think we probably don’t know enough about the situation with Eccleston to so anything but speculate, but heck, that’s what we do best! Certainly in interviews, he’s appeared arch and dissociated. If asked about Who, he usually says: “Hmm, pardon?” as if “why are you asking me about that? My new project is much more interesting!”

    On owning the character, friends of mine said when Tennant first appeared that he was too much like Tom Baker or Davison and yet, from a character perspective, they are the same alien. In the end, Tennant had a nuance that was very different from the angst of Davison and the occasional mellow quality of Baker (0ccasional mellow!). Again, yes, I’d agree the campy and odd scenes are what makes Who what it is: the effects are secondary I would think and the conversations always interesting and sometimes confusing. Hooray for that! I like Arbutus’ ideas of cross-pollination of character: a good xpression.

    Also on the issue of Clara and the Doctor -yeah, I can’t imagine that snoggin’ routine really working in Clara Prime’s time: very different to her other claricles. As others have said, as it’s family TV, the idea of the Dr and Sarah J having a snog behind the TARDIS was very much a possibility off screen: much like in Gone With the Wind when Scarlett O’Hara lies in bed with  dreamy satisfaction written all over her face (now, they, as characters were married, and the Doctor and Sarah J could never  be, hence the off-screen imaginings of Liz Sladen…).

    Kindest, purofilion

    #25999
    FaeGrl @faegrl

    @Purofilion – Ha! Don’t worry, I’m new to the term “shipping” as well. My roommates are all very young and I learned of it last year. Yes, it means to imagine two characters of any series as a romantic couple or speculate it. Some fans ship the Tenth Doctor and Donna Nobel together… even though there is so much evidence to the contrary. Sigh… Anyway, it’s true, we don’t know enough about Eccleston and why his run as the Doctor is so short, but it’s clear that he doesn’t want to be associated with the show at all. It’s odd, because when he started it, he would make bold exclamations about the character of the Doctor as a whole. Like his quote of: “The Doctor’s message seems to be accept life in all its forms. He doesn’t react with horror when he sees a blue, three headed monster. He reacts with wonder, and I think that’s a very important message to send out to children.” It was a nice quote, but now Eccleston reacts with, “Who?” when asked about the show or character. Hmm… I can’t help but to think that some of the rumors is true, about his dislike over the writers and staff of the show, then quitting. And when they asked him to do the Christmas special, he refused. So, I’ll continue to speculate. lol.

    @scaryb – Yes, I do agree with you… the relationships between Doctor and companions are always ambiguous. Even in the case of Rose and Tenth, they never did any snogging or otherwise on screen (one kiss when Cassandra possessed the body of Rose, if that counts). The fans only got the hint that they were in love, because of the looks they gave each other and sometimes they held hands. And it was confirmed that there was something more when they were finally separated. Mostly the bit of dialogue during their good-bye conversation, when Rose mentioned a pregnancy and the Doctor became nervous for a moment, “A baby?” And Rose assured him it wasn’t theirs, but her mother and father were expecting. There’s no such thing seen between Clara and the Doctor yet… but it could happen, I guess. Right now, I just don’t see any evidence. I’m a slow shipper, in general. 😉

     

    #26006
    Anonymous @

    I was sitting there  in Gosford NSW at sparrow fart, waiting for the announcement of the new Doctor, like zillions of others, and then Peter Capaldi came forth and the first thing that went through my head was..”thats the dad from Pompeii”…and , to be hoinest, thats all I know about him…has he been a regular on British TV series?

     

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