The Next Doctor (2)

[Arbutus @arbutus]

Oh dear, a re-invigorated @barnable! That might just blow my head right off.  😯  This sentence: “As you know, I support the theory of two coexisting time lines leading up to TotD” made me wonder, do we ever listen to ourselves on this forum? I have written sentences that I would never have dreamed I would use in rational conversation.

So, do you think that Handles originated in a time line that no longer exists? I believe that the Doctor said he got the head in a market, and the implication is that he rebuilt it himself, thereby making it friendly.

As for Clara, I thought that was her same father, but that her mother had died. This new person would be a stepmother, probably a relatively recent one given the dynamic.

Tasha Lem, however, is clearly a mystery. I read somewhere that she was meant to be a one-off character, and yet, it seems a bit cheap to create this character that apparently has all this mysterious history with the Doctor, and obvious parallels to River Song, and then just drop her after one episode. So, hard to say what might be going on there!

My point is that anything would be possible now.  Anything would seem to be possible however many timelines we postulate. This is Doctor Who, after all!  🙂

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus – Thank you, many good points in your post. 🙂

 “Anything is possible” is an over statement. But as you said, we are talking about the universe of DW, so I find it easier to start from that point of view and then figure out what is not possible. 

 My latest post is just my first thoughts on this new theory.  Like you said, we are not here to listen to ourselves, so I posted my first thoughts hoping to get ideas from other members before already having many ideas of my own.  

 I think a similar example of this theory (hidden time line) exists in DW canon, already.  Amy’s parents were gone when we first met her.  Her parents were gone for about 12 years? Amy went on adventures with Eleven for 2 years that we got to see.  But then that time line (without Amy’s parents) ended, but Amy still remembers them happening.  While at the same time, her parents suddenly reappear on the new time line (but, only as a result of events we watched happen, so they must have still happened) and she also has all the memories of the 12 years we never saw happen.  I think this is what is happening to D13 now.  He still remembers every thing we saw happen on one time line (they also must have still happened to create the new time line), but he suddenly got all the memories from the new time line all at once (even though we didn’t see them).  I think many things on the new time stayed the same (Must have stayed the same would be a better description – Fixed Points).  For example, all of the Doctors regenerations must have occurred at the same times on both time lines.  But events leading up to the regenerations may have been different than the ones we saw,  As long as the regenerations still happened when they were suppose to happen, then it would not break any fixed points.  I think it is possible, that is why I posted this theory for discussion, to see if there are any reasons it would be impossible.  If other people think it is possible too, then there are many new possibilities to discuss. 

 So, do you think that Handles originated in a time line that no longer exists?

 No, I think Handles came from a market in the new time line. I think that TotD was our first look at the new time line.

 I will try to sit out on this discussion if I can, because I don’t want to be seen as pushing an agenda.  Which I am not, I just don’t know how to discuss theories without presenting it in the form of an argument. Arguing is not what I wanted to do at this forum. I just wanted to talk about Doctor Who with people who like it as much as I do.

 “As you know, I support the theory of two coexisting time lines leading up to TotD”

😳  That sounds terrible!  There had to be something better I could have said? Sorry. 😳  I really have been reading other theories too and will try to focus on them more.

 This place is fun!  🙂  Barnable

[Arbutus @arbutus]

No, no, no, you misunderstand! What I meant was that saying “As you know, I support the theory of two coexisting time lines” is a little bit like saying “As you know, I support the theory that our civilization was founded by cats” or something similarly unexpected, rather than something like, “As you know, I support the theory that insufficient exercise leads to obesity”. That’s what I meant by wondering if we ever listen to ourselves. In the context of this forum, these kind of statements are perfectly normal and understood by everyone. But in a real-world context, they sound very very funny. Every now and then, the kind of things that we all say here tweak my sense of absurdity.

I don’t think it sounds like arguing. It’s okay to defend your theory. It’s okay for others to debate it. It’s all fun, as you say. Your newest theory is interesting and I have some thoughts about it, but I need to think them through first. I’ll be back.   😎

[Arjay @arjay]

The reason I searched for a forum is because I just finished blazing through The Sarah Jane Adventures and then Torchwood, and now found I have not much left Who to go through aside from watching BG. I didn’t know beforehand that Capaldi was also in Torchwood so I was surprised to see him there.

Anyway, I already gave my thoughts on why 12 has Capaldi’s face. Now I feel like thinking up something for why he was in Torchwood. I’m betting one of the common theories would be the chameleon arch. I personally don’t consider it that simple though but only because I had difficulty accepting The Doctor, even in an ignorant human state, to act the way he did in those episodes. Even Tennant’s human phase had at its core a reflection of The Doctor’s personality after all.

I found it a bit easier to think of Frobisher’s scientist friend as a possible disguised Doctor. So to satisfy myself I made up my own story as to how that may have come to be. I imagined that the chameleon arch malfunctioned and they ended up having a body switcheroo. The Doctor covered it up somehow, maybe with some sort of modified perception filter or an extension of the chameleon arch’s functions, and so nobody notices Frobisher’s change in appearance and how The Doctor now possessed Frobisher’s actual body. Meanwhile, The Doctor stayed close by and disguised himself as a scientist while he tries to figure out a way to switch their bodies back.

I thought these up as I just went along watching the episodes though. So I can’t say I double-checked anything to make sure whether or not such a story could even possibly happen. At the very least, I hope it provides some entertaining trains of thought. 🙂

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus – 😎 Thanks for explaining that, I’m still learning my way around the forum.  As Amy might say, “I’m called Barnable. That doesn’t mean I actually know what I’m doing.”

  Btw, You are right about Handles being a one of a kind, created by the Doctor. The cybermen were shooting at the Doctor in TotD, so they are still bad.  Good cybermen is definitely bonkers territory (like I said first thoughts 😳 ).

@arjay – Hello, welcome to the DWF.   Don’t be worried about melting minds, like @arbutus said you are off to a good start with you mind melting potential. 😉  I agree with your opinion, that a two time line solution not being necessary and a one time line solution being possible. As @Devilishrobby pointed out that, the Doctor had guilt in the BG episodes so he would be the same, which I can definitely see. After all, Eight decided to become the War Doctor for a reason and didn’t look happy when he had to do it.  So, if the Doctor would have made the same decisions regardless of using the Moment or not, then one time line explains everything perfectly.  

  The only reason I started down this black hole of bonkerizing is that I have mainly only watched the AG episodes, so I have been told many times that the Doctor has deep guilt for using the Moment.  So, I made the assumption that the Doctor will behave differently after not using the Moment.  I think if the Doctor behaves differently he might make different decisions. The different decisions might have different results, and then I think a second time line would be needed to explain it.  Or maybe a paradox machine or time loop, but I don’t understand how those work at all. So those are not good bonkerizing material for me. 🙂

 It is definitely mind melting to think about though, but it might be worth it: If the best thing about a two time line solution is, that people we saw die on the first time line, might still be alive on the second?  That would be great IMO, since I’m hoping for a return of Amy and Rory, or River. Fans of the Master might like it too.

[Anonymous @]

@arjay

Did you see Capaldi in The Fires of Pompeii (Tenth Doctor episode)?  He plays a Roman in that.  It did cross my mind about trying to explain how that character could also be connected or actually became the Doctor.  But I took the easy way out of that one. I decided to just hope he is such a good actor, that I won’t even think he is anything but The Doctor.  I’m glad I don’t remember him from Torchwood or any other roles, so he has a better chance of making me forget he was ever anyone else but the Doctor.

If DW the show’s past history is an example, I don’t think they will try to explain it either.  Martha Jones (AoG) and Amy (tFoP again) played different parts too, before they became companions.  But it would be hillarious if they used your “chameleon arch” theory, and then he turns out to be Matt Smith in disguise halfway through S8. 🙂

[Arjay @arjay]

@barnable   Yeah, and I worked that episode into my personal theory. Arbutus and I turned out to have similar thoughts that surrounding events can factor into what kind of personality The Doctor will next regen into. After all, he has always turned out to be just the right kind of Doctor to face all he had to. And to that end, I theorized that the way both Donna and Clara reinvigorated him to be The Doctor and save people made his regen associate the experience with that face. I also thought just now of how this might be further explained. The Doctor himself seems to be clueless about his own new personalities. Considering though that his regens are tied in to the TARDIS and the TARDIS has a habit of taking him where he needs to go, then the TARDIS may as well also take his next personality where it needs to go.

They actually gave an explanation for Martha’s other role, as she said she had a relative who died at the Torchwood incident. As for Amy, well, she had lots of makeup on in Pompeii anyway and so she isn’t as noticeable. It could be safe enough to be ignored in my opinion but if they really had to explain it then it can be as simple as being an ancestor of Amy.

[Anonymous @]

@arjay

 His regens are tied in to the TARDIS and the TARDIS has a habit of taking him where he needs to go,

That’s great explanation!  I finally have a one time line theory to believe in.  The TARDIS isn’t affected by time lines, and he can’t get too far off track if she makes sure he is where he needs to be.  That will be all the explanation I need, unless dead people start showing up.  Then back to the bonkerizing.

I do remember hearing that about Martha.   So the show does try to explain things after all.  I don’t think your Amy explanation will work for the Doctor too.  But I might have one now.  Ten was always warning about breaking fixed points and even said Pompeii was fixed. But, then he saved Capaldi’s character at the end of tFoP, which broke the Doctor’s fixed points rule.   We could finally find out why he was so emphatic about not breaking it.  The Doctor wasn’t being heartless after all, for almost leaving.  He just didn’t want to be the marbleman one day. Maybe he got his face for breaking the rules?  🙂

 

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@arjay

it can be as simple as being an ancestor of Amy.

They did make a little joke about it in The Pandorica Opens: Invasion of the Hot Italians was Amy’s favourite subject at school. Plus, she loves Rory dressing up in Roman armour. 🙂

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus

 I just discovered your theory on the doctor’s regeneration process.  Cool theory! Timey-Wimey Evolution. Instead of just luck, now we can predict the future.  

 The pattern I see evolving is:

Nine (survival maxed), Ten (survival toned down, feelings added), Eleven (feelings maxed),   Twelve (feelings toned down, serious added)

 

[Anonymous @]

@barnable  yes with respect to The Doctor’s faces, he adds (as Tom Baker) that it’s possible or fun to revisit old faces. We do that in life, don’t we? Going back and re-visiting the boy next door (accompanied by relief that we didn’t totally lose ourselves in marrying the guy) going to school reunions and drinking awful pink punch…. But with Baker and the Doctors, revisiting old faces takes on a different meaning.

Here, I suppose, The Doctor can visit those faces and become them -like in Pompeii. That family needed to be saved according to Donna: “please listen, how can it hurt, to just take the one family?” It didn’t and he did.

That family and their father resonated for The Doctor: in Pompeii, Capaldi’s character was a mature father, confused at times and very proud. Our Doctor now seems now to have grown up, he’s living with his reflections, his errors of judgement; without running away from hard decisions.  He’s recalling his family from Gallifrey. When Troughton spoke of his family and Pertwee too, it was to say: I can remember them. They’re in the back of my brain and when I really really want to remember them I see them right here in front of my face” (a bit of indirect speech, but close enough).

Kindest, purofilion

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@barnable  Here as promised, my thoughts about your theory regarding the doctor’s memories. I’m interested in the idea that the doctor’s memory loss might somehow connect to the shifting of timelines (although that is somewhat negated when one remembers that for the doctor, several hundred years passes between the events of DotD and the regeneration). So maybe not. But it would be interesting to suppose that not even the doctor is totally immune to all of this messing about with timelines. Various shifts occurred, or seemed to, when the GI interfered, and then when Clara splintered, and then again in DotD. At a certain point, maybe there was one shift too many?

The funny thing is, that of all things to forget, how to fly the TARDIS would have seemed the least likely, given their long and close connection. I might have expected him to forget anything and everything except that! So maybe that line has a very different significance after all.

I like the idea of the Doctor’s regenerations being Fixed Points, given that his different personalities have responded in very specific ways to the situations in which they found themselves. A different iteration of the doctor at a key time might have led to a very different result! And it seems to me that a Fixed Point would be the only reason that anyone could actually predict the doctor’s death (“He will knock four times”, for example). And yes, we have seen, not that you shouldn’t mess with a Fixed Point, but that usually, you actually can’t. The event will re-form in some way (as in The Waters of Mars).

Regarding this:  I made the assumption that the Doctor will behave differently after not using the Moment.

The only problem with this is that it was pretty clearly stated, in DotD, that the Doctor would not remember that he didn’t use the Moment. So he would still have the guilt over it, despite not having done it.

Love your shorthand assessment of the doctor’s personality evolution throughout the AG series!

[Anonymous @]

@barnable @arbutus  the two time line theory can stand up -please wade back into that discussion @barnable! As @arbutus mentioned, two or more time lines can cause different results. Not necessarily a post hoc argument: post hoc ergo propter hoc -NOT! But, as @barnable clearly stated: different situations or time lines cause different reactions within the people’s (The Doctor(s) ) lives which causes different decisions which then causes a different end point, but also a different ‘journey’ -which we may or may not see.

In this case, Number 13 can’t recall  how to fly the TARDIS. This because of a timeline which occurred that we didn’t witness and therefore can’t testify to or because (as Arbutus pointed out) crossing time streams and being affected (and effected) by the GI and the claricles may hint at minor neural damage.

In other words, at regeneration (a fixed point),  Number 13’s time streams implode resulting in mayhem. The Doctor finds himself at the nexus of his own universe which, during  regen, causes either froth mouthed relish or debilitating panic.

Furthermore, at some point in the future plot, I’d expect the weight of the claricles and indeed the knowledge which Clara Prime contains, to become a mental burden. Rather like waking from a dream, falling down and down until you hit the bed which rushes up from the dark to meet you. The jolt knocks you awake- you’re either totally aware or scrambling about in confusion. Much like Clara when she met the War Doctor in the Doctor’s time stream. Here, the Doctor saved her, now she’ll need to save Dr 13, if she doesn’t faint first.

Kindest, purofilion

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@purofilion    In other words, at regeneration (a fixed point),  Number 13′s time streams implode resulting in mayhem. The Doctor finds himself at the nexus of his own universe which, during  regen, causes either froth mouthed relish or debilitating panic.  Ha! I love this! Mayhem is right. Froth mouthed relish was certainly the Eleventh Doctor’s response. The new doctor seems almost to have responded with a bit of both relish and panic.

[Magnetite @magnetite]

Long time, no see, etc., etc….

Pressure of work, blah, blah blah..

Anywho,

Well, they’ve finally introduced Peter Capaldi’s new outfit and I think it’s rather good:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Peter-Capaldi-Doctor-Who-Costume-Revealed

I seem to remember Crombies being the height of fashion in a certain sub-culture about 40 years ago (yes, I’m that old) – wonder if they’ll make a comeback! The red lining is particularly good. And the chunky footwear trend is continuing, it would seem…

[Whisht @whisht]

he he – Crombie, DMs…. Teddy Boy or Mod?

either way, monsters are in fer sum bovver

🙂

[Magnetite @magnetite]

@whisht

Definitely more Mod than Teddy Boy – no brothel creepers here! (And I’m not that old to be able to remember Teddy Boys the first time around!)

[Arkleseizure @arkleseizure]

The dashing Ted look: I like! There’s a Doctor who won’t take no crap from no poxy Daleks…

[Magnetite @magnetite]

Oh, and the going rate for that jacket is a snip at about £800 – even though the Crombie website seems to have crashed already!

[Arbutus @arbutus]

Ha! I like this. 😀  Tough but stylish. Not too old fashioned, but not too ordinary. Well done!

[Anonymous @]

Oooh, loving the shiny Docs 🙂

[Rob @rob]

Hi everyone,  sorry work has been horrendous….

Well think that is one cool look plays to his strengths physically

[FiveRoundsRapid @fiveroundsrapid]

Urgent!

Don’t be taken in by the images of Capaldi in his new costume… Get the facts here –

http://5roundsrapid.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/stop-press-new-capaldi-costume-hoax

[Anonymous @]

@fiveroundsrapid

Yes, yes. Very funny 😆

Still, at least you weren’t claiming to have ‘Marco Polo’ 😉

[FiveRoundsRapid @fiveroundsrapid]

@fatmaninabox

LOL… Might have a couple of copies of The Web of Fear Ep 3 lying around somewhere though 🙂

That whole thing was a farce. I was following Ian Levine’s comments about it on Twitter! Did you see his earlier outburst against Phil Morris? That’s one frustrated Who fan right there!!

[Anonymous @]

@fiveroundsrapid

I caught the tail end of it but I was too exited by the prospect of laughing at yet another donkey trying to hoodwink us that I didn’t read all of it. He’s really not a happy bunny!

P.S. Haven’t you already been warned about overuse of exclamation marks on DWW? I may have to ban you from the site if it continues!!!!!!!!! 😆

[Anonymous @]

Like it. Very post punk.

@magnetite

You can pick up a similar — although it looks longer and frankly cooller — version here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281251262932?var=580297690302&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Anonymous @]

I do wonder if iconic clothes manufacturers now put in bids to be part of the new costume. Converse. Harris Tweed. Now Crombie. Maybe they send in samples and freebies these days to get the gig.

[FiveRoundsRapid @fiveroundsrapid]

@fatmaninabox

No idea what you’re talking about!!!!

So you spotted that then 🙂

At least she was pulling me up over syntax rather than the sentiment.

[Anonymous @]

@fatmaninabox so it is real then? As I now have the hots for Capaldi in new de new leetle ‘outfit’.Well, actually, I did before…mmm. Must address this issue with older gents (well, not that much older…)

[FiveRoundsRapid @fiveroundsrapid]

@purofilion

Re “@FatManInABox so it is real then?”

It most definitely IS real! I was just having a bit of tongue in cheek fun. I don’t think I’ve got the reach or requisite amount of clout to start a fully fledged internet panic over the next costume 🙂

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

Okay.

Well, there’s a Doctor who could head-butt a Dalek…

🙂

[Whisht @whisht]

head-butt @bluesqueakpip?

I think I’d be more fearful of either the cut-throat razor or bike chain under the collar…

but of course, the Doctor doesn’t fight…. (so do we think Ray Winstone may be the new male Companion??)

[Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip]

@whisht

but of course, the Doctor doesn’t fight

In the words of the great Seventh Doctor (another Scottish Doctor): “What do you expect us to do then? Talk to them sternly?”

[Anonymous @]

@whisht

(so do we think Ray Winstone may be the new male Companion??)

I, erm I mean, we can only hope 😀

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@bluesqueakpip, I’m sure that if David Tennant had been allowed to use his own accent, the Tenth Doctor would have been a much tougher character altogether.  🙂

[blackthorn @blackthorn]

Yes, David Tennant would have been much better – sorry, EVEN better – with the Scottish accent!   Too much for the Americans, maybe.

Love the new outfit, no more bowtie, thank heavens!    Trousers may be a leetle tight for running in, so perhaps he won’t be doing so much of that.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Hmm we’ll there was at least one doctor that would fight, he was a master of Venusian aikido, and low look who could be a spitting image for Pertwee doc.

[nadin01 @nadin01]

I think Peter looks like the best dressed doctor since the classics

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

 

Have been thinking about how the Capaldi Doctor might (in a bonkers predictive sense) be different from his previous iterations.

1. He could be altogether more Machiavellian than previous Doctors. A Time Lord that was prepared to play one antagonist off against another with dire, fatal consequences in order to achieve his ends. Other Doctors have done this to be sure, but what if this was his modus operandi? And he enjoyed it?

2. He could not simply want to return home–to find Galifrey–but to do it on his own terms. Whichmight mean he would have his own (hidden) agenda for Galifrey. To be, as Capaldi has said: a rebel Time Lord.

3. He could  eschew the whole idea of carrying a sonic screwdriver. Not only because it has (in my view, anyway) been a bit over-used of late, but because he is the type of Doctor who take extricate himself from trouble by the sheer power of his personality, and his Machiavellian attitude. In other words, he does not need one.

4. He could be frightening enough to be prepared to sacrifice anyone. Imagine a scenario where he is prepared–really prepared–to sacrifice Strax. Of course, he wouldn’t because he would have a cunning plan in the wings. And because, at the end of the day, he IS the Doctor, after all! But imagine if it  could appear to both the audience (and to poor Strax) that he was really prepared to do it.

Now, you may say this is pushing the Doctor a bit too far from his moral compass. But not really. Not is his moral compass is intact at the end of the day.

It is just that it seems to me that the new Doctor provides a real opportunity to do something daring and different.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Apologies for the egregious spelling and typos above. It is mid-morning here in Canada and I have not had my second espresso.

[blackthorn @blackthorn]

Absolutely agree with you there – both about the sonic screwdriver, which was getting very silly, and the new Doctor’s possible personality.   Machiavellian indeed!     And a bit less of the agonising would be good, too…

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@blenkinsopthebrave      I’ve only had a single shot latte this morning, but there’s a pot of tea now so I’m good to go! I love your thoughts about the new Doctor. I think the Doctor has always been at his best when he was crafty, rather than “heroic”, and I agree that it would be nice if this were played up a bit more than it has been lately. On the flip side, it would be fun to see him a little more carefree. He knows that Gallifrey was not destroyed; shouldn’t he be prepared to have some fun now? And that could set up some great mood swings: from “Let’s have tea, look at this lovely spot,” to “There’s evil here, it must be defeated at any cost!”

I’m definitely on board with “rebel time lord”. Personally, I think it’s actually necessary. It would be beyond belief for the Doctor to have completely forgotten what was going on with the High Council at the end of the Time War, not to mention all of the conflicts he’d had with them in the past. I would expect him to want to “fix” them before or while bringing them back.

Interesting thoughts about the Doctor’s “moral compass”. Did you read this great post on Den of Geek recently? I really liked the writer’s take on the Doctor as being more flawed, more of a “work in progress”, which is completely supported by the past fifty years of stories. It seems to me that after the first AG season, most attempts to show the Doctor as flawed were pretty much abandoned, except for a few occasions late in the Tennant era, and one great line of Matt Smith’s: “Good men don’t need rules. Today’s not the day to find out why I have so many.” (Quoting from memory, so I might not have it exactly right.) That was a great, great line for the Doctor, but it wasn’t often supported by his actions during the Smith/Moffat era. I’m with you, I’d love to see more of that sort of thing: maybe not abandoning the hero altogether, but a little more swinging back and forth between?

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/28960/doctor-who-the-doctors-morality

[Davison5 @davison5]

anyones thoughts on this?

 

http://whatculture.com/tv/doctor-6-aspects-malcolm-tucker-peter-capaldi-doctor-needs.php

[ConfusedPolarity @confusedpolarity]

@blenkinsopthebrave – Interesting theories!  Capaldi does Machiavellian really well, but I wonder whether he’d want his Doctor to be too much that way, what with Malcolm Tucker and Cardinal Richelieu in the background.  It’s an unusual situation, where the new Doctor can actually escape typecasting by taking on the part! I’d like to see a little of that side of the character certainly, but given the baggage the actor carries, maybe not too much.

The power of his personality in place of the sonic is a wonderful image – one I really hope Moffat’s considered too, because while I’m happy for it to appear now and then, its use as a “get out of jail free card” does grate.  And the idea of him playing games, apparently being willing to sacrifice one of his own side…. I can see that being done very convincingly!

@arbutus – the “Rebel Time Lord” is a cracking image, although his own people have always considered the Doctor to be that anyway I suppose.  And I’d definitely like the contrast from “tea in a lovely spot” to defeating evil at all costs.  Sometimes in the AG series I’ve felt the Doctor has been a touch too reluctant and apologetic about doing the “right thing” – I’m thinking The Stolen Earth/Journey’s End when Davros accuses Ten of turning his friends into weapons.  I was never wholly comfortable with that image; I like to think the Doctor makes people better than they would have been by giving them the strength to stand up against evil, whatever the cost to themselves.

I’m hoping that Twelve will be a no-nonsense, even unsentimental kind of Doctor in that sort of scenario!

 

[Anonymous @]

@blenkinsopthebrave, @blackthorn, @confusedpolarity

The long sweeping story arcs have been my favorite part of AG Who and I would like S8 to be the beginning of a completely new one.  I think this is a unique opportunity for a fresh start and  love your ideas for the new Doctor.  All the companions I have seen (small sample size – nine to ten)  immediately like the new doctor.  After 50 years everyone has become too confident that the Doctor will be someone they will like.  The thought of a Doctor that is not likable could be very interesting.

What if Clara (the girl who was born to save the Doctor) doesn’t like him anymore?  And even questions if saving him was really worth it and the right thing to do.  We could have a companion that stays with the Doctor not because she likes him, but because she wants to prevent him from doing things the Doctors she liked would not do.

I don’t want the Doctor to be a bad guy though. But what if we were not sure about which side to root for anymore, The Doctor? or The companions?

@arbutus, @whisht, @arjay, @bluesqueakpip, @Purofilion, @fatmaninabox, @devilishrobby

I need to make an adjustment to the two time line theory.  Since the WD and Ten don’t remember DotD, they would not behave differently on either time line so no chance of change.  However, Eleven does remember (mentions it in TotD) so it is still possible that events on his time line could have changed.  Especially since he saw glimpses of his future while inside his time stream, so he might have done something to save the Ponds or River.

 

[Anonymous @]

@arbutus  @blenkinsopthebrave @confusedpolarity  @blackthorn

I love your ideas re the new doctor’s moral compass and possibly confused identity -[perhaps not confused, aware, but confusing to others; such as Clara]. I would like him to send skitters of panic up our spines as he plays one group of enemies against another. Suggesting, as you say, that one life might be bargained with (or it would appear that way) for the sake of another. I would like him to engineer a complex solution which leaves others concerned for his, seemingly, devilish attitude. Would the Doctor make a patsy out of someone should his grand plans fall through? How would his former companions and supplicants now feel? The doctor has a fundamentally magic personality. We want to see him as this bewitching wise old man standing by his blue box on a desolate strip of road with an overwhelming offer to make all our wishes come true. In fairy tales, these kindly, sweet men with their fascinating offers are not always what they seem to be. Is his mask of serenity (which we saw with earlier doctors) really a mask for considerable coldness (occasionally we saw hints of that with Eleven: “fear me, I’ve killed them all”)? I believe, that like all of us, the doctor does see things on a selective basis. He could be the man who doesn’t defer to another and so when offered a chocolate from the box, he’d pick all his favourites and leave the rest!

Kindest, purofilion

[Anonymous @]

@barnable  yes, I like the idea that the Doctor could, retrospectively, engineer a plan to save his former companions ( as a consequence of the modified time track you mentioned above): I believe he might need to ‘get’ something out of this, however -with his new, intensely cultivated, mannered charm. Also, he has always been fresh and candid: will he be more thoughtful and calculating @arbutus? “superior, not spontaneous”?

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@barnable      I like the idea of a little Doctor/companion conflict, and it wouldn’t even have to be a case of the Doctor being unlikeable. It could just be a personality clash, a case of pushing each other’s buttons. I could see this working really well with Clara, as she is a perky, bossy sort who had a great dynamic with the Eleventh Doctor’s affectionate, fairly cuddly persona. He never seemed to have a problem being bossed around by strong-willed young woman! But I suspect that his successor will be a different kettle of fish, and it would be easy enough to have them more at odds with one another.

[Arbutus @arbutus]

@purofilion    I love this: I would like him to send skitters of panic up our spines as he plays one group of enemies against another.  I love the skitter of panic! That’s exactly what I meant about the Fourth Doctor and how he could be a little scary sometimes.

And this:  The doctor has a fundamentally magic personality. He certainly does. Magnetic. But magnets can repulse as well as attract!  ☺

There should definitely be some coldness in the Doctor, the “shard of ice at his heart”. This is the alien part. Sometimes it can fool us into thinking that it is just a slight detachment, like that of a scientist, and it is a reminder that the Doctor doesn’t necessarily view things the same way that we do. But it’s more than that. It’s about what he isn’t, and what he is: he isn’t human, and he is time lord. I think that we could be reminded of that, sometimes, as much is often made of his disapproval of the time lords, and how he left, but of course, you can’t altogether leave your background behind. Leaving didn’t make him human. It just made him a different sort of time lord.

I also love this phrase: “intensely cultivated, mannered charm”. I think that he has had this before, and also been less spontaneous, more calculating, the Seventh Doctor being the most obvious example of it. And the Eleventh has also behaved in a highly manipulative manner at times.

Oh, this is fun. Really, the BBC should be hiring all of us to give them their background material… or at the very least, reading this forum!  🙂

 

 

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