The Snowmen – Christmas Special 2012

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  • #187
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    We know from Death of the Doctor that Ian & Barbara don’t age in 50 years, so we can assume that at some stage the Dr must go back for them…

    #189
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    So looking at the ‘Clara – or the original Clara – is a Timelord*’ idea:

    She’s of super-genius intelligence. Tick.

    Not exactly modest. Tick.

    ‘Acute sense of time.’ Claimed, so tick.

    Telepathic abilities. Inferred, so tick.

    Ability to regenerate: we haven’t seen it and ‘Clara’ looked extremely dead in The Snowmen. Melody thought it was ‘easy’. Cross – but it doesn’t destroy the entire premise, because Jenny took ages to regenerate, and even then it didn’t follow the normal pattern.

    Conclusion: she might be a Timelord split through time; which for some reason means she can’t regenerate – the parts have to be reassembled.

    She’s certainly displaying a number of characteristics which ‘mirror’ the Doctor. The mirroring might be deliberately created (she’s a program or weapon) – or she’s a descendent. Either via Susan (current status: missing presumed dead) or via Jenny.

    (Timelord being defined as someone from Gallifrey, cloned from someone from Gallifrey, descended from someone from Gallifrey,  or in certain circumstances, conceived in the TARDIS).

     

    #191
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    So Alice mirrors like a Looking-Glass? Also water (eg Rivers & Ponds) can reflect also. Is Dr 11 the Mad Hatter? What does it all mean?

    #193
    wolfweed @wolfweed
    #195
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @wolfweed

    Dunno, but ‘through the Looking Glass’ has been referenced. In The Power of Three, the Doctor says it to Amy.

    #217
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Hey @scaryb, and everyone else, yes, there is an inbuilt edit function, thankfully. I’ve left it on the default, which gives you 5 minutes to edit after posting. I think that’s about right as it’s usually in the first few seconds after posting that you notice that typo you never did before, but stops you editing a post later on just because someone disagrees with something you said, or something.

    I was thinking about the Doctor’s seeming loss of memory and, apologies if this is going over old ground, but if Clara is inhabiting the Tardis software then maybe she is wiping his memory somehow as he travels, much like she wiped the Daleks’ memory of him. Quite why, I’m not sure, but she’s very smart, may have seen all time and space, and maybe it’s better for him if he can’t answer “the question” when it is asked.

    #235
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Existence can be unwritten…

    #237
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @phaseshift, thanks for the heads up re the new Eighth Doctor story/stories on Radio 4 Extra. I’ve set up a forum for discussion in advance here: http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/the-journey-home-for-christmas-7-january-2013/.

    Which reminds me, I need to make some of you Moderators so that you can do that sort of thing yourself when I’m not around, and just to lighten my load in general. I’d rather the board ran itself. @phaseshift, you sound like you know bit about WordPress so I’d be happy to make you a moderator if you’re happy with that. Also, if anyone else wants the terrible responsibility, please let me know.

    #247
    Whisht @whisht

    @phaseshiftlove the spot about telepathy!

    To me, that suggests Clara as an incarnation of the TARDIS (telepathic circuits as you say)… most important ‘person’ in DRs life etc…

    though perhaps they tried the revolutionary “she’s actually not anyone or anything else and we just invented a kick-ass character” – its a thought at least!

    but good spot (and mirrors as a signifier of memory, another good spot as @scaryb says – and thanks for letting us know you can edit recent posts! I’d have cleaned up my original blatherings on re-reading!)

    #249
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Clara as Tardis. Two reservations.

    1. She seems strangely innocent of it when she first sees it.

    2. It would diminish Gaiman’s episode to revisit the idea.

    Of more interest to me is why the Tardis interior has been changed. What is the narrative logic of doing it?

    #251
    Whisht @whisht

    of course, there seem to be those who suggest the current Dr is not the ‘real’ Dr (though I don’t know why), so Clara’s program to wipe all records of the Dr (not just Dalek’s) would also affect the memory of whatever he is.

    But raising an idea to shoot it down, that’d be the worst kind of “and it was all a dream” type story arc to do.

    And although this ain’t Kansas anymore, it surely ain’t Dallas??

    ;¬o

    #253
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @blenkinsopthebrave – I tend to agree with you re why she’s not the TARDIS, both good reasons. I also don’t think her speech is quite wacky enough for the TARDIS.

    Re her being Timelord, as I posted above (it was a looong post, sorry) – does the Dr not have a sixth sense when other TLs are about?  Which knocks out Susan, Jenny or any other relative. (Unless it’s one with a fob watch).

    Lots of lovely theories but none I can make fit comfortably in the context of family teatime TV!

    PS @craig @phaseshift would get my vote for moderator,  if it’s OK with him

    #255
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Doctor’s 6th sense. But would a daughter of the Doctor and River necessarily be a Timelord? (I am not talking of Jenny, and I do not think it was ever established that Susan was a Timelord, was it?) Even though River was conceieved on the Tardis and could regenerate, that did not make her a dual-heart Timelord.

    When he gave Clara the key and folded her fingers around it, that seemed very paternal to me. He knows she is special, but he does not yet know why.

    And in my Clara-as-daughter theory, I am not assuming Clara is necessarily aware that she is his daughter (re: the kiss).

    #263
    janetteB @janetteb

    Another theory. I assume that AoD is set in the future. Therefor Clara could be either Susan, re-generated or Susan’s half human daughter. I think the later more probable. She uses the Dalek web or the explosion to splinter herself through time.

     

     

    #265
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Speculation – “Clara is the most important person the Dr will meet” (paraphrased) – Maybe that’s Moff-speak for she’s the person who gets him out of his depression!

    Is Susan well enough known for the viewers of NuWho to be introduced as a plot element?

    Any speculation on Clara’s home time?  ie is she from past or future?  Is Oswin the “original” ie the reason she got “fractured” or is Oswin one of the “copies”?

    #267
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @blenkinsopthebrave – for Clara to be River/Doctor’s daughter just seems v incestuous. But hey! I said that last year when people were suggesting River as Amy’s daughter :-p

    #269
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Does anyone else find the lines: ‘the pond is yours. What is growing inside it, when it is ready, is ours’ incredibly creepy when you think back to demons run etc? And then shortly after, Madame Vastra commenting about the snow that remembers ‘I hope it’s listening to the right people. it could be a terrible weapon in the wrong hands’. I think it’s probably just an echo of the past- or maybe a deliberate reminder of River? Though I’m afraid i think if she does come into it again, it will be because she’s died/been saved (uploaded)/the doctor has given her the sonic screwdriver.

     

    #271
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Viewing figs just out http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jan/02/doctor-who-iplayer-bbc-christmas 

    (haha, chuckled at the snarky comment (CiF) about expecting 15 pages of comments, LOL)

    Record 1.5m iPlayer views, and 9.87m altogether (6th place)

    And apparently making big gains in USA also.

    #273
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    I keep thinking about the new Tardis interior. Why? What is the POINT of the makeover?

    #277
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @miapatrick – yes indeedy! (Creepy enough the first time round, then picked up the Pond ref on 2nd viewing) I suspect that one of being coincidence, but you never know.  Trust no-one

    @blenkinsopthebrave‘s post(s) about the TARDIS makeover. Good question.  It MAY just be part of the overall revamping and tarting up for the 50th – Matt’s new jacket etc, new image (not god-doctor any more). There’s a lot of things referencing 70s Who at the moment (Matt even had a scarf (albeit a grey one) in the Snowmen, the new jacket looks decidedly Pertwee-ish; and are those Troughtonish checked trousers?).  OTOH – he’s just retired. What do you do? Do up the house, all the little jobs you’ve been putting off for years (or centuries). Feeling a bit more austere maybe, decluttering.

    He’s obv not had time to work on to the outside yet  🙂

    #279
    janetteB @janetteb

    I agree with ScaryB. I think the revamped Tardis is just a production choice not a story arc signifier. It is a new interior for a post-pond Doctor. It is also more traditional, maybe echoing the reflective nature of the anniversary year episodes.

    #281
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Still having some issues, but I think I know what the problem is (Huzzah!)

    @craig, thanks for the audio thread. If no one has any objections I’d certainly agree to help in any way I can (as Mod). Let me know if you want me to e-mail you (it might be at the weekend if that’s OK).

    @blenkinsopthebrave, I think the story on the redesign is that the Who Team have moved studios to the new BBC’s Roath Lock Studios in Cardiff. I’ve heard it suggested that the cost of the move was about the same as rebuilding a new one. Don’t know if there is any deeper meaning to it.

    Interesting with all our talk of breaking 4th walls, this set is the first to have all 4! It was why this set was suitable for that lovely tracking shot of Clara entering the TARDIS, and the wider variety of camera angles.

    #283
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @whisht

    so Clara’s program

    It would be really funny if Moffat is doing some of that wordplay he likes.

    “Run you clever boy …. and remember”

    turns out to be

    10 RUN “You Clever boy”
    20 AND “Rememer”
    30 GOTO 10

    #285
    ScaryB @scaryb

    LMAO @phaseshift  😀

    #293
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    Hi @phaseshift. I’ve now “rebooted” you to Moderator status. You can now create new topics within Forums.  Unfortunately it seems only I can create new forums but hopefully that shouldn’t be a problem. I will be looking into how I can change/add permissions to make this all a bit easier, but the board uses a new version of BBPress and there’s not too much documentation or tips on hacking it been produced so far. I’ll be having a go this weekend though.

    All you need to do is hover over “The Doctor Who Forum” in the very top bar and click on Dashboard. You’ll then be able to access topics. By hovering over the topic link you can add a new one and choose which forum it should go in.

    You can also now do some terrible things, like Trash a whole topic, delete member posts or mark them as spam etc. So I’m hoping you’re not as evil as your old avatar suggested! Although I’m one to talk. 🙂

    #295
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    Does anyone else find the lines: ‘the pond is yours. What is growing inside it, when it is ready, is ours’ incredibly creepy when you think back to demons run etc? And then shortly after, Madame Vastra commenting about the snow that remembers ‘I hope it’s listening to the right people. it could be a terrible weapon in the wrong hands’. I think it’s probably just an echo of the past- or maybe a deliberate reminder of River? Though I’m afraid i think if she does come into it again, it will be because she’s died/been saved (uploaded)/the doctor has given her the sonic screwdriver.

    (@miapatrick)

    Ahem *relights pipe which had fizzled out with apathy for her Clara is a later incarnation of River theory*.

    (@phaseshift)

    10 RUN “You Clever boy”20 AND “Rememer”30 GOTO 10

    The above (from what my granny tells me) is reminiscent of the coding for ZX81, probably resulting in a little blip which bobs about the screen for a second.

    #297
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    The name Aria is an Italian baby name. In Italian the meaning of the name Aria is: Melody.

    Sorry – I put your pipe out again.

    So Clara is the forerunner to the Spectrum?

    Does she have 1 kb of memory and a touch-sensitive membrane?

    #301
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    So is Clara a  computer AI ghost, programmed to match other players in the game?

    Or perhaps a laser crystal recording (see Nightmare of Eden)?

    Light seems important this series (7). Flickering in all episodes. (See the flicker when the old Governess tries to break the shield as the Dr & Clara kiss – Does that count? ). Of course this theory will no doubt be shattered come April…

    #303
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Is Clara the spectre of the programming of the offspring of an automated laser monkey and an exploding fishfinger made of light and the soul of the TARDIS ; also niece of the Dr’s 2nd cousin twice removed; whilst possessed by all of the Old Great Ones & The Pantheon of Discord & the spirits of the Time Lords?

    #305
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    @wolfweed (I can’t get used to these new avatars!)

     

    So Clara is the forerunner to the Spectrum?
    Does she have 1 kb of memory and a touch-sensitive membrane?

    We’ll see if she mentions Daley Thomson’s Decathlon….

    Re: flickering.  Hmmm I forgot to look out for the faulty/broken lightbulb in this episode.  The Christmas and Eggs spots presumably related to when the series was back on again (I think) but the flickering lights are still a puzzle.

    #307
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    @wolfweed

    You’ve changed your avatar again *shakes fist*

    I might have to go for a little lie down…

    #309
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Will people run away from the blog if I mention something from “The Eleventh Hour”?

    We’re presuming the Doctor is eliminating his own history.

    In the Snowman he selects the recent entry in the journal by throwing the book in the Air and advising Richard E Grant “You should really delete your history….”.

    And back in “TEH” he advised the hapless Jeff to do something similar after he created his “bit alive” virus to trap Prisoner Zero on his MYTH laptop.

    #311
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @craig, thanks – I’ll try not to abuse the power!

    #313
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Sorry. After trying ten or so avatars, I’ve returned to being a Wolfweed. On my browsers I look more like a defocused speck of cigarette ash though. Or a mouldy weetabix seen through clingfilm…

    Other Clara identity theories from elsewhere include Spatial Genetic Multiplicity, Boemina, Faction Paradox, a TARDIS (but not necessarily the TARDIS), the Universe (incarnate), the result of psychic pollen, Captain Jack in drag, a Ganger, Susan’s daughter, Braithwaite, The Master, The Rani, The Tesselector, Schroedinger’s Cat, Donna, a Computer Logic and Reasoning Android, an anagram(Arcadia/Cardinal/Rassilon/Osiran), The Red Guardian, and many more…

    #315
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Perhaps the Dr has a limited edit function? Maybe he just licks a memory worm now & again?

    The only websites you frequent are all Dr Who related? Quick – delete your Browser History!

    #317
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @wolfweed Avatars are another thing I have to fix. For some reason it’s been coded to show a 50px avatar blown up to 80px, hence everyone looking a little blurry at the mo, although that could just be that the New Year has taken its toll. Hopefully by the end of the weekend you’ll look less like a mouldy weetabix seen through clingfilm, and more like just a mouldy weetabix.

    #319
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @phaseshift. More than happy to embrace a mention of “The Eleventh Hour”. My feeling about Moffat, is that while he loves referencing stuff from the whole 50 years of the show, his main themes and the driving force behind his arcs, come exclusively from material he has introduced himself. Consequently, in looking for the way that the 50th might play out, I think all the clues are there from “The Eleventh Hour” on. (but also including Moffat-scripted shows like those in the Library and Blink).

    So, for example, while the 50th may involve past Doctors in some way, it will be in the context of themes that Moffat himself has intoduced.

    That is why I think the 50th will be about family, as this is very much a Moffat theme, and not as obvious in the pre-Moffat Who.

    On another tack, when we talk about “the 50th”, are we talking about the episodes that start in April? Because they will be over well before November 23. Or is it likely that there will a big movie-length stand-alone for Nov 23? Has anyone heard anything to this effect?

     

    #321
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    A quick search of Google and I answered my own question. 90 minute special to film in Febuary…Hurrah!

    #323
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    More Google. All 11 Doctors? Well, could work well if they are disembodied and we hear their voices, but do we really want to see older and more corpulent Doctors (as much as I love them all)? Still remain convinced in a 4th wall explanation (and in a family revelation), but, with great regret, I might have to say goodbye to my Kennedy theory. And I was so hoping to see Canton again.

    #325
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    On another tack, when we talk about “the 50th”, are we talking about the episodes that start in April? Because they will be over well before November 23. Or is it likely that there will a big movie-length stand-alone for Nov 23? Has anyone heard anything to this effect?

    Yes – I was going to talk about that, you’ve reminded me!

    I came across a news site when they announced that the eight episodes of 7b would be broadcast starting at Easter, which was later than I expected.

    There is indeed a 90 minute special planned for the Anniversary and a one off drama about how the show was put together (penned by Mark Gatiss) this should link

    Matt seemed to confirm he’ll be doing the Christmas Special next year, but no information about anyother episodes between the anniversary and Christmas Special 2013.

    #327
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    Oh – something else as well. I read on the last blog you’d managed to watch some of the missing episodes on a DVD release. If we set up a separate thread at some point would you mind giving us your thoughts on it as a package? What it covers, special features etc? Might be a new conversation?

    I saw the recreation of The Invasion recently and loved the way the animated episodes worked. They are doing another one later this month with Reign of Terror.

    Right of to try to get to sleep (post New Year Insomnia is a killer!

    #329
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @phaseshift. I am honoured that you think I might have anything of worth to say on the “Lost in Time” dvd. But it might be a bit premature, as I myself have not yet explored all of its riches. Here is the amazon link, with a description of its contents:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Lost-Time-DVD/dp/B0002XOZW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1357266540&sr=1-1

    Needless to say, every Whovian should have one!

     

     

     

    #331
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @wolfweed

    Other Clara identity theories from elsewhere include Spatial Genetic Multiplicity, Boemina, Faction Paradox, a TARDIS (but not necessarily the TARDIS), the Universe (incarnate), the result of psychic pollen, Captain Jack in drag, a Ganger, Susan’s daughter, Braithwaite, The Master, The Rani, The Tesselector, Schroedinger’s Cat, Donna, a Computer Logic and Reasoning Android, an anagram(Arcadia/Cardinal/Rassilon/Osiran), The Red Guardian, and many more…

    Glad to see you’ve managed to whittle down the theories 🙂

    Re avatars – @wolfweed, sorry I thought you looked like something @chickenelly would put in her pipe! @phaseshift – hmmm, you’re looking decidedly more sinister since becoming a mod!

    #333
    ScaryB @scaryb

    <squeals in delight @blenkinsopthebrave‘s news>

    90min special – yippee! (I’m assuming the rest of this season will be about getting the series to the starting blocks for the final run-in to November’s epi. Expect a mega cliffhanger in May)

    Re separate thread to discuss dvds and other products – that would get my vote. I’m not even sure what’s out there, so would be helpful. (LOVED Reign of Terror – thought it was very scary (bit vague on the details though 🙂 )

    #337
    stevethewhistle @steve-thorp

    Hello All

    I’m in at last.

    Thanks Craig

    #339
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Hurray – As my Avatar appeared overnight from the temporal trap it was in, I presume whatever ailed me has cleared.

    Look at its majesty and weep (remembers he has to be responsible now, and shuffles away).

    @stevethewhistle

    Welcome aboard!

    #341
    PhaseShift @phaseshift
    Time Lord

    Those lonely weekends without new who. As well as exercising our thoughts on the enigma of Clara, @craig had an idea on the suggestions post about viewing an episode a week as a kind of “Book club”. I think it’s and interesting idea. A couple of thoughts on this general blog, just to gauge peoples access to previous episode.

    There are a number of empty threads on the recent 7a series, starting with Asylum of the Daleks. As we are discussing CLARA, is a group re-watch and comment worth doing? or is it too recent?

    The alternative may be that BBC3 resumes the showing of Series 5 tomorrow at 1945. Unfortunately it’s part 2 of the Silurian 2 parter “Cold Blood”.

    What interested me about this is that, looking at the old Dan Martin blog with a paltry 220 comments or so, I don’t remember many of you around at that time (unless like me, you have regenerated since). It could be interesting to hear new thoughts though, and from people who were around at the time to see how their own perceptions had changed over time.

    Is there any interest in either of the above? Or any other ideas?

    I’ll pop back in an few hours to see if there is any feedback.

    #343
    Anonymous @

    Hello, @phaseshift The Moderator (beware the bloodbugs btw)

    Either of those suggestions sounds good. I was just toying with the idea of rewatching Asylum in the wake of all this Clara chat….

    #345
    wolfweed @wolfweed

    Sorry. Didn’t mean to sound negative about avatars. I’m very glad to have one at all.

    Dr Who homework? Why didn’t we get that at school?

    Yes, those forums/threads for the 7a eps are just waiting for fresh analysis.

    No reason not to have more for BBC3 repeats and Lost in Time or whatever.

    Will we be tissue-compressed-eliminated if we don’t do our homework, though?

    #347
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    No offence taken at all @wolfweed. I was just voicing my to-do list out loud so that I’d force myself to do it this weekend, if it’s possible to fix. Should be though (hopefully).

    My idea of a ‘Book Club’ was partly an idea to get more threads going, but mostly a great way to introduce people to the best episodes/stories. I’m a fan, but I’ve not got every DVD available. But if someone much more knowledgeable than me nominated a story that we could all discuss in a week’s time I’d probably get it and watch it.

    For example, for my sins I don’t think I’ve ever seen The Talons of Weng-Chiang despite beginning with Pertwee and trying not to miss any episodes. My parents took me to Hong Kong for two years from 1975-1977. How could they?! It’s one I want to see but have a million things competing for my time.

    Have just caught up with The Walking Dead, am now catching up with Boardwalk Empire, and Breaking Bad… well, it’s currently a pipe dream, so to speak :-D. However, a ‘Book Club’ discussion on The Talons of Weng-Chiang would probably give me the push I need to watch it, and I’d bet a few others on here would too.

    Then again, the Eighth Doctor audio starts next week on Radio 4 Extra, and I have to admit I’ve not listened to many of the Big Finish stories either, so maybe that’s something to focus on next week. As I understand it there’s an episode on every day next week.

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