The Timeless Children

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This topic contains 162 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Bluesqueakpip 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #70785
    MissRori @missrori

    @dalekbuster523 Well, it’s possible “Revolution of the Daleks” won’t be an Earth-set episode in the first place, or at least not set on present-day Earth, so the pandemic would be a moot point and no alterations will be needed.

    #70786
    the new new doctor @thenewnewdoctor

    @missrori hopefully, it’s been crap so far hasnt it

    #70789
    Peacemaker @peacemaker

    Seems a lot of hubbub about something that could be and perhaps is going to be handled so effortlessly.  How about, she was the explorer who brought regeneration to Gallifrey?  She eventually openly expresses regret at it due to Timelord chicanery around the universe so Timelords erase her memory but keep her around in case they need her. She discovers some clue to her missing pieces, somehow escapes and perhaps is not sure why but knows only a need to right wrongs throughout the galaxy.  An obvious and elegant backstory for “The doctor”.

    #70796
    doctorwhofan @crazydoctorwhofan

    What doesn’t make sence to me is how the doctor is going to get out of prizon in the next series. Also this series has been so different to the ones in the past. There has been a very constant theme throughtout all the episodes instead of fighting different creatures everytime. The first series of Matt Smith asthe doctor also had a theme but the episodes were very different and they only came togerther on the very last episode. Personly I love Jodie Whittiker as a doctor but I prefered the first series over the mot recent one.

    #70836
    Master @master124

    I have no idea why people are so angry at this story, It explains the Valeyard and the Morbius doctors. Although it’s certainly not without flaws, people need not over-complain about perfectly good episodes because it changes cannon in a huge way.

    #70840
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    There were hints that the Doctor was more that your usual TimeLord back into the BG era, especially in McCoy era, there were hints that the Doctor was a lot more right through his tenure especially the enemies he faced now admittedly I think his storylines were part of the Cartmel Plan which is something I have little actual knowledge but I think it actually mirrored the Timeless Child in a lot of respects. Those more familiar with the Cartmel plan can jump in and correct me  but I think that again made out that the Doctor was actually an ancient immortal timelord on a par with Rassilon, so to say Chibers has drastically changed canon is true it’s not outside of the evolving nature of Whoverse in fact is that part of what Doctor Who has been about. The fact that the Doctor is The Timeless Child actually explains how the Timelords were able to grant a new regeneration cycle in Day of the Doctor…. they didn’t they just didn’t get a chance to wipe the Doctors memory of the previous 12 life  cycle as in the past and the Doctor just assumed that they had somehow granted him with the new cycle when he regenerated into Capaldidoc. Change is natural law and in TV land change is even more so a natural law programs that don’t evolve don’t survive in the long term.

    #70841
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @master124 and @devilishrobby
    Yes, it actually explains a lot. Why the Time Lords have always seemed so … genetically engineered as survival machines (they are), why the Doctor is almost universally loathed on Gallifrey (no aliens on Gallifrey, but the Doctor is The Alien Who Must Not Be Mentioned).

    Why the Doctor is so different (he/she is different). Why Time Lords live for thousands of years but Gallifrey has 2.47 billion children (Shogobhans are the original Gallifreyans and don’t regenerate).

    In terms of what kind of stories can be derived from it, we’ve got the question of whether the Master has really made Day of The Doctor kind of pointless, or whether the Doctor can save Gallifrey’s children again. We’ve got the mystery back – the Doctor joins the large number of mythological foundlings and nobody has a clue who or what she/he is. So various ‘quest’ possibilities.

    Then there’s the ‘Master as unreliable narrator’ possibility. I keep looking at that ‘child who kills the Timeless Child’ and wondering. Just how long has the Master been killing the Doctor? Since before they were even ‘The Doctor’ and ‘The Master’?

    Plus, more guest actors as ‘The Doctor’ because we’re no longer constrained to the current TV Doctor – or even to one-and-only-one series on air at a time. RTD did it by bringing back Liz Sladen to headline as Promoted Assistant, but the ability to have different Doctors the way Star Trek has different ships is a plus for me. A franchisable Doctor Who is far more likely to continue in today’s box-set on-demand multiple channel TV environment.

    #70843
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @bluesqueakpip oh good I though thought I was going to majorly upset ppl with my defence of Chibnall in this case though I do have to say I haven’t always been as enamoured with his Who style but in the case of the Timeless Child I think he managed to stitch together something that has bought together some  story strands that have been hanging there for decades in some cases, when you look back at it he is obviously a fan of elements of the  Cartmel Plan. As you say bluesqueakpip it’s opened a new world of possibilities regarding future stories and possibilities to franchise the series. In fact looking at it Big Finish must have been rubbing their hands in glee at the possibilities it presents them. Obviously given current world events we are probably going to have a bit of a wait for any new who but what series hasn’t been affected one wonders how current events are going to reflected in the new series.

    #71068
    Vervain @vervain

    Ok – new bonkers theory

    So does anyone remember the conversation between War Doctor, 10, 11 and the General just before the creation of Gallifrey Falls No More?

    Locked away in a mirror/other universe

    The Master’s allies in Spyfall and apparently where he ended up – another universe

    The crack broadcasting a message through all of time and space – from another universe

    The Boundary…

    The Timeless Child fell through from one universe to another…

    We know that the Doctor has had gaps in their memory before, even within the Matrix – Trial of a Timelord

    The Division – an agency that traverse time space and universes?

     

     

    #71142
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    OK, in light of my thoughts about recent rumours regarding the Tardis, I decided to watch this again. And I confess, I still retain my original response: when, in the entire history of this show, is there ever any indication that we should trust anything that the Master says as true?

    If what happens in the episode really is true, then, as far as I am concerned, this is Chibnall ignoring everything that has gone before and simply making it up. By the way, how, exactly, did the Master manage to destroy Gallifrey and yet conveniently retain the collective memory of the Timelords (mostly)?

    Anyway, to jump to the conclusion, when the Judoon suddenly materialize on the Tardis and capture the Doctor; when, in the history of the show, does anyone mange to suddenly materialize inside the Tardis?

    But it is late, and I may have forgotten episodes…

    #71149
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    He actually hasn’t ignored everything that’s gone before, any more than, say, RTD ignored everything we knew about the Master when he decided to make him a) driven insane by the Time Vortex and then b) driven insane by a homing signal sent through the Time Vortex by Rassillon. In a very similar way, Chibnall has given us information we didn’t previously know about the character’s life before his/her first appearance on our screens. The interesting twist is that the character didn’t know it either. As you say, the Master may be acting as Mr Unreliable Narrator, but the appearance of the Fugitive Doctor suggests there IS a gap in the Doctor’s memory.

    This episode was the Act II climax, I’d suggest, which means things may seem very different by Act III. But rather than ignoring backstory, the idea explains a lot that’s puzzling about The Doctor. Why she’s so mistrusted, why she takes no responsibility for Gallifrey even when he’s the elected President, why the Time Lords seem ‘engineered’, even why there was such a mismatch between the number of children on Gallifrey and Time Lord life spans.

    Is she a River Song? A mutation from over-exposure to the Time Vortex during conception? Was she abandoned because her own people could not cope with regeneration?

    Incidentally, you can materialise inside the TARDIS – it implies the Judoon or the Shadow Proclamation now have TARDISlike technology, but it’s been done both pre and post gap. It’s best done when the shields are down.

    #71150
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip

    Your explanation certainly makes sense. I suppose, for me (and I confess that my Master never really included the RTD years) I have always seen the Master as (highly) unreliable narrator.

    Still trying to get my head around how he (of all people) managed to destroy Gallifrey in such a targeted way that he could save just enough (but not too much) archival memory of the Timeless Child, however.

    Still, Chibnall has done it, and I suppose I will have to run with it.

     

    #71152
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I classed the archive as handwavium – the Master showed he can hack the Matrix more than once, so I’d expect him to be able to copy the interesting bits. But we’ll see.

    I think the definite ‘unreliable narrator’ bit for me is where Brendan in the cover story is deliberately shot by a criminal, but the Master is oddly insistent that the Timeless Child’s first death was in fact two children playing, a childish shove that accidentally sent her over the cliff.

    One of those is a lie. But which one? And why would the Master care about the reputation of some ancient child?

    The other interesting thing is hiding in plain sight. The title.

    If this is a story about ‘The Timeless Child’, why is it called ‘The Timeless Children‘?

    Yeah, he’s an unreliable narrator. This affects him in more ways than some spliced-in genes. 🙂

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