The Timeless Children

Home Forums Episodes The Thirteenth Doctor The Timeless Children

This topic contains 168 replies, has 45 voices, and was last updated by  syzygy 3 months ago.

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  • #70785
    MissRori @missrori

    @dalekbuster523 Well, it’s possible “Revolution of the Daleks” won’t be an Earth-set episode in the first place, or at least not set on present-day Earth, so the pandemic would be a moot point and no alterations will be needed.

    #70786
    the new new doctor @thenewnewdoctor

    @missrori hopefully, it’s been crap so far hasnt it

    #70789
    Peacemaker @peacemaker

    Seems a lot of hubbub about something that could be and perhaps is going to be handled so effortlessly.  How about, she was the explorer who brought regeneration to Gallifrey?  She eventually openly expresses regret at it due to Timelord chicanery around the universe so Timelords erase her memory but keep her around in case they need her. She discovers some clue to her missing pieces, somehow escapes and perhaps is not sure why but knows only a need to right wrongs throughout the galaxy.  An obvious and elegant backstory for “The doctor”.

    #70796
    doctorwhofan @crazydoctorwhofan

    What doesn’t make sence to me is how the doctor is going to get out of prizon in the next series. Also this series has been so different to the ones in the past. There has been a very constant theme throughtout all the episodes instead of fighting different creatures everytime. The first series of Matt Smith asthe doctor also had a theme but the episodes were very different and they only came togerther on the very last episode. Personly I love Jodie Whittiker as a doctor but I prefered the first series over the mot recent one.

    #70836
    Master @master124

    I have no idea why people are so angry at this story, It explains the Valeyard and the Morbius doctors. Although it’s certainly not without flaws, people need not over-complain about perfectly good episodes because it changes cannon in a huge way.

    #70840
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    There were hints that the Doctor was more that your usual TimeLord back into the BG era, especially in McCoy era, there were hints that the Doctor was a lot more right through his tenure especially the enemies he faced now admittedly I think his storylines were part of the Cartmel Plan which is something I have little actual knowledge but I think it actually mirrored the Timeless Child in a lot of respects. Those more familiar with the Cartmel plan can jump in and correct me  but I think that again made out that the Doctor was actually an ancient immortal timelord on a par with Rassilon, so to say Chibers has drastically changed canon is true it’s not outside of the evolving nature of Whoverse in fact is that part of what Doctor Who has been about. The fact that the Doctor is The Timeless Child actually explains how the Timelords were able to grant a new regeneration cycle in Day of the Doctor…. they didn’t they just didn’t get a chance to wipe the Doctors memory of the previous 12 life  cycle as in the past and the Doctor just assumed that they had somehow granted him with the new cycle when he regenerated into Capaldidoc. Change is natural law and in TV land change is even more so a natural law programs that don’t evolve don’t survive in the long term.

    #70841
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @master124 and @devilishrobby
    Yes, it actually explains a lot. Why the Time Lords have always seemed so … genetically engineered as survival machines (they are), why the Doctor is almost universally loathed on Gallifrey (no aliens on Gallifrey, but the Doctor is The Alien Who Must Not Be Mentioned).

    Why the Doctor is so different (he/she is different). Why Time Lords live for thousands of years but Gallifrey has 2.47 billion children (Shogobhans are the original Gallifreyans and don’t regenerate).

    In terms of what kind of stories can be derived from it, we’ve got the question of whether the Master has really made Day of The Doctor kind of pointless, or whether the Doctor can save Gallifrey’s children again. We’ve got the mystery back – the Doctor joins the large number of mythological foundlings and nobody has a clue who or what she/he is. So various ‘quest’ possibilities.

    Then there’s the ‘Master as unreliable narrator’ possibility. I keep looking at that ‘child who kills the Timeless Child’ and wondering. Just how long has the Master been killing the Doctor? Since before they were even ‘The Doctor’ and ‘The Master’?

    Plus, more guest actors as ‘The Doctor’ because we’re no longer constrained to the current TV Doctor – or even to one-and-only-one series on air at a time. RTD did it by bringing back Liz Sladen to headline as Promoted Assistant, but the ability to have different Doctors the way Star Trek has different ships is a plus for me. A franchisable Doctor Who is far more likely to continue in today’s box-set on-demand multiple channel TV environment.

    #70843
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    @bluesqueakpip oh good I though thought I was going to majorly upset ppl with my defence of Chibnall in this case though I do have to say I haven’t always been as enamoured with his Who style but in the case of the Timeless Child I think he managed to stitch together something that has bought together some  story strands that have been hanging there for decades in some cases, when you look back at it he is obviously a fan of elements of the  Cartmel Plan. As you say bluesqueakpip it’s opened a new world of possibilities regarding future stories and possibilities to franchise the series. In fact looking at it Big Finish must have been rubbing their hands in glee at the possibilities it presents them. Obviously given current world events we are probably going to have a bit of a wait for any new who but what series hasn’t been affected one wonders how current events are going to reflected in the new series.

    #71068
    Vervain @vervain

    Ok – new bonkers theory

    So does anyone remember the conversation between War Doctor, 10, 11 and the General just before the creation of Gallifrey Falls No More?

    Locked away in a mirror/other universe

    The Master’s allies in Spyfall and apparently where he ended up – another universe

    The crack broadcasting a message through all of time and space – from another universe

    The Boundary…

    The Timeless Child fell through from one universe to another…

    We know that the Doctor has had gaps in their memory before, even within the Matrix – Trial of a Timelord

    The Division – an agency that traverse time space and universes?

     

     

    #71142
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    OK, in light of my thoughts about recent rumours regarding the Tardis, I decided to watch this again. And I confess, I still retain my original response: when, in the entire history of this show, is there ever any indication that we should trust anything that the Master says as true?

    If what happens in the episode really is true, then, as far as I am concerned, this is Chibnall ignoring everything that has gone before and simply making it up. By the way, how, exactly, did the Master manage to destroy Gallifrey and yet conveniently retain the collective memory of the Timelords (mostly)?

    Anyway, to jump to the conclusion, when the Judoon suddenly materialize on the Tardis and capture the Doctor; when, in the history of the show, does anyone mange to suddenly materialize inside the Tardis?

    But it is late, and I may have forgotten episodes…

    #71149
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    He actually hasn’t ignored everything that’s gone before, any more than, say, RTD ignored everything we knew about the Master when he decided to make him a) driven insane by the Time Vortex and then b) driven insane by a homing signal sent through the Time Vortex by Rassillon. In a very similar way, Chibnall has given us information we didn’t previously know about the character’s life before his/her first appearance on our screens. The interesting twist is that the character didn’t know it either. As you say, the Master may be acting as Mr Unreliable Narrator, but the appearance of the Fugitive Doctor suggests there IS a gap in the Doctor’s memory.

    This episode was the Act II climax, I’d suggest, which means things may seem very different by Act III. But rather than ignoring backstory, the idea explains a lot that’s puzzling about The Doctor. Why she’s so mistrusted, why she takes no responsibility for Gallifrey even when he’s the elected President, why the Time Lords seem ‘engineered’, even why there was such a mismatch between the number of children on Gallifrey and Time Lord life spans.

    Is she a River Song? A mutation from over-exposure to the Time Vortex during conception? Was she abandoned because her own people could not cope with regeneration?

    Incidentally, you can materialise inside the TARDIS – it implies the Judoon or the Shadow Proclamation now have TARDISlike technology, but it’s been done both pre and post gap. It’s best done when the shields are down.

    #71150
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @bluesqueakpip

    Your explanation certainly makes sense. I suppose, for me (and I confess that my Master never really included the RTD years) I have always seen the Master as (highly) unreliable narrator.

    Still trying to get my head around how he (of all people) managed to destroy Gallifrey in such a targeted way that he could save just enough (but not too much) archival memory of the Timeless Child, however.

    Still, Chibnall has done it, and I suppose I will have to run with it.

     

    #71152
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I classed the archive as handwavium – the Master showed he can hack the Matrix more than once, so I’d expect him to be able to copy the interesting bits. But we’ll see.

    I think the definite ‘unreliable narrator’ bit for me is where Brendan in the cover story is deliberately shot by a criminal, but the Master is oddly insistent that the Timeless Child’s first death was in fact two children playing, a childish shove that accidentally sent her over the cliff.

    One of those is a lie. But which one? And why would the Master care about the reputation of some ancient child?

    The other interesting thing is hiding in plain sight. The title.

    If this is a story about ‘The Timeless Child’, why is it called ‘The Timeless Children‘?

    Yeah, he’s an unreliable narrator. This affects him in more ways than some spliced-in genes. 🙂

    #71446
    screenwritersafari @screenwritersafari

    The Timeless Children Is Utterly Suicidal (Review)

     

    #71549
    johnnybear @johnnybear

    As someone who gave up watching the show three years ago I think this timeless child thing is a load of bunk ‘written’ by a second rate hack that makes even Moffat seem better than he was! This has been done purely for the woke minded and to cause trouble with Who fans, which it has done! I only found out about it because my son watches it and even he wasn’t impressed! Capaldi’s era and the genderbending Time Lords turned me right off of my once favourite show! I stopped collecting the DVDs after Smith left and I wasn’t happy with his era, liked him just not his stories. Capaldi’s time was purile and a chore to get through and I was looking forward to a new team and actor. Kris Marshall who was hinted at gave me a Davison vibe and I could see him in his cricket gear again but when the news broke of Jerdeh replacing Capaldi I knew it was time to go! Tom Baker’s one time joke became the basis of the show to follow and I decided to switch off and do something more entertaining!

    JB

    #71597
    nerys @nerys

    Well, different strokes and all. I have enjoyed all the post-gap Doctors and appreciated them in different ways. I slowly grew to love Capaldi’s Doctor, mainly because of the way his Doctor evolved before our eyes, right up to his regeneration.

    “The Timeless Children” was a good idea, in concept. But having the Master explain everything to the Doctor, in such excruciating detail, really took the dramatic wind out of the episode.

    I agree with the video commentator who says Whittaker is held back by Chris Chibnall’s nearly humorless scripts. There is too much tell, not nearly enough show. In my opinion, the balance between “show and tell” was far better in the Russell T. Davies and Steven Moffat eras. Writing throughout those eras created a believable tension between the Doctor, companions and antagonists. It seems far more cartoonish and explainy now, with little in the way of comic relief. Contrary to what the video commentator says, Doctor Who doesn’t need better actors. The actors are fine. But the writing can use a boost.

    (Kudos to the video commentator for mentioning “Midnight”, one of my favorite episodes!)

    #71600
    Macca @macca

    I don’t know if anyone will actually read this or not but I’m new here as of today so alright to anyone who reads this:), I won’t lie in my opinion ever since Series 7 part 1 finished, personally, Doctor Who went down the drain aside from a few episodes that were well written and actually had a good story such as the name of the doctor, the 50th anniversary special and the time of the doctor and a few more but I don’t want to waffle on. I’m currently 17 years old and I’ve been watching Doctor Who most of my life my first episode was Daleks In Manhattan and I was probably only 4 or 5 years old at the time but I instantly fell in love with the show and continued to watch David through to Matt and went back to watch Chris and I enjoyed these three Doctors in particular thoroughly as it was so enjoyable to watch and the storylines and character development was amazing, it was my childhood I was obsessed with it. The reasoning behind me coming onto this forum is to just voice my opinion regarding the show and being honest for the past few years I’ve sat there and watched my comfort show my childhood show just deteriorate over time especially with series 12’s finale I mean I sat there and watched that and I turned the Tv off and wanted to punch something it angered me so much it was so stupid, I feel sorry for the actors as at the end of the day it’s not their fault but even with saying that the acting is no were near as good as it used to be and I think people will have my back on that one, I think Chibnall needs to get his arse into gear like he tried to do in the new years special and you know what I sat and enjoyed that episode as obviously Captain Jack returned, we got a mention of Rose, our favourite Daleks were back and we got to see some bad guys we hadn’t seen for a long time like the ood, silence and sykorax I don’t know how to spell it lol, so for series 13 I really hope Chibnall continues this as the season 12 finale was a joke I think any fan who actually knows the show would write a better story. Moreover, I’d very much like to hear what other people my age or older think about new who as its just in the gutter at the minute we need another RTD or Moff Chibs isn’t the one.

    cheers for reading, wanted to voice my opinion, also I have thought up a theroy that legitimatley brings the 10th Doctor back into Who to reprise his role but before revealing that I’d just like to see if anyone reads this lol.

    Macca

    #71783
    OsdfFdsfg @osdffdsfg

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    #71794
    syzygy @thane16

    @macca

    normally, I welcome newbies but I haven’t been around in awhile, so welcome.

    You mentioned whether people would read your stuff?

    If you try paragraphs, it’d help. As a good friend once told me, they’re your friends. 😁

    I’m in my 50s and disagree with some of your analysis and I checked in with my son and his friends who are 1-2 years older and they loved the show post -Tennant.

    Moffat’s tenure from the opening scenes with Smith til the last episode with Capaldi is roundly considered the best in this household but it could be a minority opinion in the big Bad Wolf World.

    This site was formed because of the complexity within Moffat’s stories, and an undeniable energy or forward progression within plots and character arcs.

    Personally, any story captivates when the relationships between people are investigated by the writers and intuited deftly by new actors. The love between Amy and Rory was genuine and no amount of timey-whimey whimsy would’ve encapsulated the whole if the love story remained unconvincing. Even standalones like the Van Gogh tale broke our hearts all over again.

    Whilst I thought Tennant introduced much needed energy into the role, he wasn’t my favourite. The stories were good, at times. Some in the Donna era – the Vasta Nerada; the spectacular Tennant/Rose/capt Jack: “are you my Mummy?” and in Martha’s era, our first look at the Weeping Angels.

    My biggest concern was the love ‘triangle’ in space: Rose loves the Doctor, he loves her, then Martha loves the Doctor, he can’t reciprocate.

    My favourite character, though, was Missy as the new Master. How did you find her, compared with, say, RTD’s Master?

    Anyway, check out some of the posts on Smith/Capaldi on the different Forum areas and enjoy. There’s also great posts on the Tennant episodes. Hope you find what you’re looking for.

    Kindest, Puro.

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