The Well

[Craig @craig Emperor]

Well, (sorry, couldn’t help it) this should be an interesting one. There are rumours that this is connected to the rather brilliant “Midnight”, one of RTD’s best and spookiest.

Far in the future, on a tough, brutal planet, a devastated mining colony has only one survivor. To discover the truth, the Doctor and Belinda must face absolute terror.

It’s written, once again, by RTD, and is directed by Amanda Brotchie, who I think did a great job on last week’s “Lux”.

And it guest stars the lovely Rose Ayling-Ellis as the one survivor. She is the deaf actress of “Eastenders” fame who won the hearts of the public on “Strictly Come Dancing”.

Let’s hope it lives up to the standards of its predecessor.

[Devilishrobby @devilishrobby]

Hmm ( I couldn’t copy our Lord Emperor’s opening as much as I wanted to), so it’s a sequel to the episode Midnight but did RTD slip-in that the midnight entity may be one of the pantheon of mad gods with the brief reference to the laugh. Also I’m also wondering if May 25th is supposed to be a fixed point that may have been changed which is why the Tardis can’t reach/access it. Also I see we had our Mrs Flood encounter though she sounded pleased that the Doctor had been able to activate the transponder device. I’m trying to work out if that’s supposed to be a good thing or bad thing.

[Craig @craig Emperor]

I thought it was the best so far – but then I do love a spooky, scary one. I mean, it ripped off “Aliens”, but did it’s own thing with it. And it was almost a bottle episode again, like “Midnight”, with them all stuck in one room. RTD done good this time.

And for those (maybe not of these shores) who don’t know Rose Ayling-Ellis and how she won “Strictly” here’s the winning dance. She’s a star.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

Good old fashioned Base Under Siege, complete with arsy squaddie who knows best. Yes, a hint of Aliens. Also the drop over Vulcan from Star Trek reboot. And more than a bit of Under The Lake and Waters of Mars. Companion gets shot through the chest and survives. Somehow. Just as well Shaya didn’t have a Varron T disrupter.

But yes, it’s planet Midnight.

Mind you, you know what else can’t stand mirrors? Yes, you do! Which one do you reckon? Dukkha, Anatta or Annica?

They’re on a little list.

Looks like Mrs Flood is going all Susan Triad on us.

Terrific. A B+ and 2 A’s so far.

[blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave]

Very well done. And very creepy. Given that no one on the ship has heard of Earth or the human race it taps into the question wether we are watching fiction or reality.

As for the appearance of Grand Moff Triad at the end, I reserve my judgement.

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

I enjoyed it. Some random thoughts:

1. It works, even without the Midnight tie-in.

2. Pretty bleak for a Who episode. Multiple violent deaths, a suicide, a companion being shot and having to be revived, and the monster gets away.

3. The Doc cries again. This must be a plot thing.

4. The Doc loses. It’s a bit of a theme now that he’s been rather ineffective (and reliant on others) in several eps, but to completely lose a battle is unusual. Everybody dies.

5. Why wasn’t the Doc in danger when he was chasing the commander at the end? He was right behind her?

6. I didn’t understand the logic behind the Mercury waterfall. Any ideas?

7. Did the Doc leave his sonic behind on the video monitor?

A solid ep I thought. The season is shaping up much better than the last one.

[WhoHar @whohar]

Some further ramblings:

Mrs Flood. Tears. Floods of tears? Dunno what this means but I’m sure it means something.

The monster in this ep had a different way of working. In Midnight it was possession / taking over speech. Here, it was much more visceral and physical. Like the change seen in  the Weeping Angels behaviour post Blink. I can’t see this being significant, but it’s interesting to me.

Are we sure this is the same monster? It said it knew the Doc but that doesn’t mean it was the same entity.  We know about the Greek gods, but we’re not Plato.

And yes, as mentioned above, I think there was a reference to this monster being a Pantheon member. God of backpacks?

Why did the Doc cry? Didn’t seem to be any reason in-story.

Is the continuing mention of Bel(inda) anything to do with the Bel from Once, Upon Time in the Chibnall Flux run?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

The Snowmen: the intelligent snow became tears when that iteration of Clara died. You had the snow. Now you get the wet stuff.

Midnight: no we don’t know that this IS the same critter. Though The Doctor said that before it was ‘having fun.’ Times change. You asked about the ‘Mercury Fall’… I’m not sure it would form a mirror, but that’s Russ’ logic.

There is a monster/species which can’t bear mirrors and also delights in having fun with trapped people, unguarded minds, wind chimes, animated tattoos. And they’re on the Harbinger’s list. I’ve previously named names. One may have gone down with Shaya. That leaves another two.

I just hope there were no ‘eye-booger’ monsters on the Harbinger’s list.

[winston @winston]

I really liked this one, a little creepy and a few nasty jump scares (I hate those ) plus some excellent acting by all. We never get a good look at the thing but that adds to the creepiness. The mister said the next day that he kept seeing things out of the corner of his eye and being startled. Great reaction from a non- whovian. I’m sure there are things that don’t add up but it kept me on the edge of my seat from the start to the WTF ending.

Midnight was a very disturbing episode ,maybe better than this one but this was a good sequel.Maybe the Doctor is crying because he remembers the 2 women who died that day, one to save him. He was the most helpless I have ever seen him, unable to save himself or the women from an invisible monster. Maybe he cries because he knows how helpless he is to save the people around him. Lots of people died in this one.

Mrs Flood again. why?

stay safe

 

[WhoHar @whohar]

Are we (the audience) being played like a fiddle by RTD? We are all looking at Mrs Flood as the mystery, but what if it lies elsewhere?

All through Season 1, Ruby was the “special” companion, who turned out to be ordinary.

In Season 2, Belinda is the ordinary companion who just wants to get back home. What if she is, in fact, extraordinary?

A couple of things I noticed in TRR:

1. When Belinda enters the Tardis, her reaction is a bit muted. Like she’s seen one before.

My reaction at the time was that maybe RTD was trying something different / setting up the character. Then…

2. Later on she says to the Doc something like “Is this your Tardis?”, but this was before the Doc had mentioned what it was called.

I found this a bit odd at the time but put it down to an editing issue.

Then in Lux, she says something like “Let’s get home to Gallifrey”. This is strange phrasing to use, and I took it initially that she meant “let’s get you (the Doc) home to Gallifrey”. But maybe Gallifrey is also her home.

There are a number of scenarios potentially at play here:

– she may have known the Doc / another TL before.

– she may be a TL herself but be hiding it, or not realise she is one.

– she may be another version of the pre-Hartnell Doc.

– she may be another version of Mrs Flood (who also knows about Tardises (Tardi ?), and can time travel, so may be a TL.

There is some counter evidence but it could equally be misdirection and explained away.

Also, it’s late here, I’m  tired and I’ve spent far too long thinking about this, so I’ll just leave it in the ether…

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whohar

Well observed.

… also is this the reason why she was quite so forthright about dna sampling? Though why shouldn’t she? It’s a contrast to Rog of the William’s bunch for instance.

Alternatively, for those who may have ah kinda been following my erm… song and dance over the critter from Midnight, one germanic etymology for ‘Belinda’ is bright serpent.

[syzygy @thane16]

Interesting thoughts. I also noticed how Belinda’s fond mention of her dad’s routine at the pub on Friday turns to an interest in the wardrobe with barely a tear after the Doctor promises her she’ll get home, he will “sing” and Bel’s mum can “whistle” at his behind. I thought it a strange reaction?

So, is Belinda the new Master or Mrs Flood?
Puro.

[Mudlark @mudlark]

A bit late on the scene, but I may as well add my pennyworth.

As it was a very long time since I last watched Midnight I decided to watch that again before tackling this episode so that I could compare the two directly. It seemed doubtful that a return to the theme of an isolated group of people facing the unseen and inexplicable could match up to the original, but in the event I think the approach was sufficiently different to ensure an equally shocking impact, and for my money it was the best episode of the three so far this season. Rose Ayling-Ellis was particularly impressive in her portrayal of panicky desperation and terror.

The idea of possession by an unknown and presumably malign entity, as in Midnight, is always creepy, but equally so is the sensation of something following you, sensed but not seen, as with the traveller on a dark and lonely road who  ‘ …. turns no more his head, Because he knows a frightful fiend Doth close behind him tread’  *  And like the Balrog in Moria when the dwarves dug too deep, this monster rose out of the pit the miners dug to reach the diamond layer.

Here, as in Midnight, someone sacrifices herself in an attempt to get rid of the monster, but where in the former case all ended well for those who survived, here we are left with no such assurance.

* Coleridge, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner,  also quoted in the MR James story The Casting of the Runes 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@whohar

I agree that there are hints of something a bit odd about Belinda, as if she knows things that, on the face of it, she shouldn’t. The answer, though, may lie in a crucial incident in The Robot Revolution. When the two time-separated instances of the document registering the naming of Belinda’s star touch, Alan regresses to conception and is swept up by the polisher bot, but Belinda and the the Doctor experience a scrambled review of her life past and (potentially) future. This, on top of the time fracture (schwup effect) could well explain why she sometimes ‘remembers’ things prior to experiencing them.

Incidentally, it seems to me clear that the time fracture, which the Doctor thought he had resolved but which clearly he hasn’t, has shunted them into an alternative time stream in which the earth has been destroyed , which is why they can’t get back.

 

[Mudlark @mudlark]

@whohar @winston

Yes, the ongoing enigma of Mrs Flood. First the ubiquitous slightly nosey neighbour who knows more than she should, with a tendency now and again to break the fourth wall like a Greek Chorus, now she does seem to be doing a Susan Twist, popping up in different guises and in wildly different times and settings. My latest hypothesis is that she is the Harbinger for the Really, Really Big Bad of the pantheon; or, alternatively, she is an arch manipulator, Time Lord or otherwise, pulling the Doctor’s strings in furtherance of some grand design in which the v(ortex)indicator plays a key part.

[WhoHar @whohar]

@mudlark

Belinda and the the Doctor experience a scrambled review of her life past and (potentially) future.

That’s an excellent point and not one I’d considered.

I suggest it may still point to Belinda being in some way special, given the dialogue I mentioned previously. What it does do, however, is to open up other solutions for her significance outside of the TL / Gallifreyan connections of my hastily-written conclusions from earlier. I need to think again.

That sequence also harks back to the Toymaster saying he had made a jigsaw of the Doctor’s life. Perhaps we are now seeing that scrambled version where things don’t fit together correctly.

[Whisht @whisht]

Hi all – I am really tardy this season!
Nice and creepy and Rosie Ayling very good.
She knew the monster was ‘attached’ and lied.
But also the pain she displayed when she begged “Don’t turn your backs on me” was poignant.
The Midnight Monster enjoys playing games…

As for Mrs Flood – my first thought was this

but that was me just being silly.
;¬D

However, maybe Flood needs the Doctor to use vindicators to get ‘back’ to May 25th because she can’t get there either (yet seems to be able to travel through time).
Did the Doctor want to lock her out but is now unwittingly letting her back ‘in’ because he has forgotten?

Who nose?

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@whisht

The still of Balok, from Star Trek’s The Corbomite Manoeuvre, is on the nose. A puppet as it turned out. The protagonist was in fact a hyper intelligent baby.

The potential use of puppets is worrying for anyone who saw the Bandrill ‘video link’ from 1985’s Time Lash. However, the Bandrills look nothing like Anita Dobson, unlike the Balok puppet.

[winston @winston]

@whisht  I didn’t think about Mrs. Flood being unable to get back to earth and needing the Doctor to get her there somehow. Food for thought. Thanks.

By the way that guy in the picture freaked me out as a child.

stay strong

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

Whew!

How does the Doctor know what clothes to wear 500,000 years in the future, before he even looks outside? When Earth fashions change completely in 50 years. And are the same clothes worn all over the Universe at that time? (Incidentally, 500,000 seems a bit – excessive, wouldn’t 5,000 have done?)

I would have jumped – straight back into the Tardis. It’s starting look like that would have been the safe thing to do.

That airlock is remarkably roomy if it only takes six.

‘Nuke this site from orbit’. Yay!! Ripley cheers in the background.

Quite why they need signing when they apparently can understand spoken English, I can’t quite fathom. Still, it doesn’t derail the plot so I don’t mind. Oh, and it seems Aliss is just deaf and lipreadding, OK that explains it.

Carbon-46?? Carbon normally has an atomic weight of 12, with isotopes of 13 and 14. The element with atomic mass of 46 is titanium. Just what the heck carbon-46 could be, I can’t imagine. Maybe the episode will tell us.

Anyway, this episode is seriously gripping me so far. As tense as Oxygen. Or, did someone mention Midnight? Alice is maybe starting to sound a little like Sky Silvestri.

… and this planet is quite definitely Midnight. Xtonic radiation and all. Oh, the Doctor says so. And Shaya says Carbon 46 is diamond – I absolutely cannot make sense of that. Can anyone explain?

All that mercury – which is presumably giving off mercury vapour – is probably not good for anybody’s health. However, it’s a very slow poison, main hazard is it’s cumulative, so not immediately toxic. More immediate, there are six of them, plus Aliss, how are they going to fit in an airlock with a limit of six?

So only four of them got in. Plus the Thing, on Belinda. And then Shaya shoots through Belinda very accurately so as not to kill her, and does what the stewardess did in Midnight, only this time she lets herself fall backwards down the Well. This is a remarkably similar shot to Ripley falling into the furnace in Alien 3. R.I.P. Shaya.

Um, shooting Belinda so accurately she survives is very reminiscent of Mary Watson shooting Holmes accurately and non-fatally in Sherlock. I wonder if Moff noticed the borrowing.

And it ends, as all such episodes must, with Val seeing – nothing – behind Mo’s back.

This was a cracker of an episode. Really, one of RTD’s best.

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

Hmmm.   Only 19 posts before mine.   The Intertoobz should have been erupting over this one.   With enthusiasm, I mean.   Yes, I think it was that good an episode.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@dentarthurdent

This was probably my favourite thus far, regardless of my will to spot continuity.

[janetteB @janetteb]

@dentarthurdent

Just a day or so before watching this episode our youngest observed that there is no emotional tension in current Who. this episode proved him wrong. I was in tears on the edge of my seat. yes @ps1l0v3y0u says, definitely one of the best episodes of the season.

cheers

Janette

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@ps1l0v3y0u   @janetteb    Definitely my favourite episode since, um, Boom or Wild Blue Yonder.

I’ve just noticed another similarity to Aliens in the plot, in the ‘dropping down to scout a base which has been massacred by some unknown enemy’.  Though I guess it’s a common enough scenario.

Quite aside from ‘let’s take off and nuke the site from orbit’.

These troops don’t give me the queasies in the same way that the Unit troops did in Lucky Day, probably because they’re on a different planet.

[TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit]

I thought I’d commented on this episode before, but I see I haven’t, so I will do now!

I think that Midnight is one of the worst Doctor Who stories ever, and this was almost as bad! It’s all based around the idea of looking behind someone at something almost invisible, but not quite. This was done before in “Planet of The Spiders” as well as “Turn Left”. The difference between these and “The Well” is that there’s actually a story apart from looking behind someone at something almost invisible, but with “The Well” that’s more or less the whole story. The writing technique was similar to “Boom”, where one part of an old story is reused and becomes the whole story. Total crap! After this, it’s no wonder the whole future of the series is under threat.

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  TranslatorCircuit. Reason: Added a sentence about "Boom"

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@translatorcircuit

Yes. You don’t like Midnight or The Well.

Who resounds with superficial resemblances and echoes. But some ideas may be deliberately referenced. Paranoia is facilitated by people talking over you or continuing looking over your shoulder. It’s powerful stuff.

Where Midnight and The Well wins out is we are shown neither a man in a rubber suit nor a shonky arthropod on someone’s back. Turn Left is actually one of my favourites but then the bug was ostensibly borrowed from one of Russ’ kiddie spin-offs. The Spiders in PotS were laughable and the story was knocked together in a rush; the planned Master story was stymied by Delgado’s untimely death. Curiously PotS is a March 11th story so accords with my significant date theory… but never mind.

Personally, I think you’re looking in the wrong direction. If Russ’ Who does survive and, yes, the show may be under fire, expect Chris Bailey to get a credit, alongside Barry Lets and Pip and Jane Baker.
Clearly The Well is no more of a problem than The Woke. However, rushed writing and the decision to base whole arcs on VR may well be.

[TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit]

@ps1l0v3y0u

“Planet of The Spiders” was a brilliant story! Criticising the spiders themselves is just a criticism of special effects. I’m also happy that the Master has continued since that era. Being able to knock something together in a rush is also what’s needed NOW, instead of pretending it’s too late, so no Christmas Special and no new series next year.

I don’t know if RTD will continue in Doctor Who, or why Chris Bailey might get a credit, but he wrote the Fifth Doctor stories “Kinda” and “Snakedance” which were both brilliant, featuring the Mara. The special effects were definitely good enough. I think the Mara should return, especially because that would be more believable than Omega returning after being totally annihilated TWICE, involving anti matter.

I think people should watch the fan made series DW2012 to see what can be done.

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

@translatorcircuit

Planet of the Spiders is serviceable but not Robert Holmes playing with tropes because he’s the MAN and he CAN.
Yes, Chris Bailey = The Mara. I’m a huge devotee of the Mara stories, yet so sad we only ever saw hints of a full BAMF Mara Empire. But then you really don’t want a rerun of Stupid Sutekh.

Anyway the Mara are on Harriet’s list. They don’t like mirrors and they loved mind games. To judge from Tegan’s issues, I’d worry about Belinda. And Poppy. But I’d love a reworking of the Dukkha meets Tegan in featureless mental wilderness. Want to be creeped out just like that.

I hope we get RTD back. You may be worried about the last series and the future, but 16/21 hit rate isn’t too bad. I think Russ will realise he needs some good writers and concentrate on script edding.

[winston @winston]

@janetteb  @dentarthurdent   @ps1l0v3y0u         The fear and menace was as thick as butter in this one. There is something behind you, no don’t turn around ,don’t look! Wait, what? What is behind me? We don’t know but don’t try to find out or it gets angry. I wouldn’t last a minute.

While Midnight was a study in group behaviour under extreme duress , The Well was more a sci-fi /horror episode with a killer on the base. Both excellent episodes that kept me on the edge of my seat( I’m too old to hide behind the couch).

stay safe

[Dentarthurdent @dentarthurdent]

@winston   Well, this one, as well as Midnight, reflected the fact that a hidden monster is often scarier than one you can see.   ‘Listen’ also used this technique (and in fact, was there even a monster there)?   Still, the noises on the moonbase when there should be no life anywhere, really made my hair stand on end.   Literally.    Alien (the first one) also used this, where you never saw the alien until the last couple of scenes.   Though in that movie, the alien monster was entirely as scary as anything one could imagine.

But I think the scariest one I’ve watched was an old movie ‘Play Misty for Me’, in which Clint Eastwood as a swingin’ DJ was being stalked by a past, um, jealous girlfriend who was completely insane and who had just stabbed a detective to death, unknown to him.   He returned to his house and the camera followed him as he walked casually from room to room completely oblivious to what we knew was going to happen – but we didn’t know when.   The tension built up to the almost unbearable.

I entirely agree with you about this episode (and Midnight) – two of RTD’s best, IMO.   I think it’s the general consensus too.

 

[ps1l0v3y0u @ps1l0v3y0u]

The key to understanding Midnight and The Well is the attack on identity: you’re talking over me: you’re not looking at me.

I have my own theory about where Russ is taking this. Let’s hope he gets the opportunity to see it through.

[TranslatorCircuit @translatorcircuit]

Apart from being a sequel to the crappy “Midnight”, I think “The Well” where only one member of a crew survives is copying a Star Trek: TNG episode, as well as a Star Trek: ENT episode. Details on  https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Night_Terrors_(episode) AND https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Impulse_(episode)

It looks like RTD has run out of ideas. I wonder which Star Trek episode he wants to copy next? I don’t really believe the claim “There are only seven drama plots” which JNT once said. BTW, which Shakespearian play is “Rose” based on?

 

 

 

 

[Author]

Posts