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  • #18015
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip Glad it’s a bit better.

    I had no idea there was a problem with dyslexia and white backgrounds. I think I may work on a grey background version. Just for you.

    …and the other dyslexics out there of course.

    I kinda like greyish websites anyway. They can still be minimal.  Give me a couple of days.

    #18016
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – grey works extremely well – I originally bought my Kindle for the text-to-speech facility. Then I discovered that the grey background meant I very rarely needed it.

    It was quite astonishing what difference the grey background, and being able to adjust the text size and spacing, made to my reading ability.

    #18017
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip

    That’s good to hear.

    Now, are we talking grey like the footer is currently? Cos that’s what I was thinking of.

    #18018

    HOLY CRAP!!!!! Who put the new wallpaper up?

    #18022
    Anonymous @

    @pedant – wasn’t me.  I hate wallpaper.  Me, I like a lick of paint (once the blood spatters dry, it’s quite easy to cover them up.  Use emulsion, it’s easier for the paintbrushes to wash out after … 🙂  ).

    #18023
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip

    Better?

    @ Everyone else.  I kinda like it but is a work in progress. Will be better tomorrow.

    #18024
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig 😀

    Yes, definitely much, much better.

    #18025
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @bluesqueakpip Cool.

    I don’t think I’ll ever design a white website again. I had no idea.

    #18027
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – grey is the new white. 😉

    #18029
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Liking the grey a lot. And my education on this site continues 🙂 I have friends who are dyslexic but I’d no idea about white backgrounds.  I like the font, size is good, no complaints if bigger

    #18031
    janetteB @janetteb

    Wow. Looks so different. Think I’m going to like the new look, (once I’m over the shock of it 🙂  )

    Cheers

    Janette

    #18035
    chickenelly @chickenelly

    @craig, yes the grey is much better thank you.

    Although I wouldn’t consider myself to have dyslexia, when I was at art college we all had to do one of those questionnaires to see if there were any undiagnosed dyslexics in the year.  If I recall correctly, if you answered 10 out of 20 questions ‘yes’ you were likely to have some form of dyslexia – I got 11 out of 20.  Most of my ‘symptoms’ involve not being able to remember numbers or tell left from right (tip: never ask me for directions), but I do find large white spaces behind text can be a bit problematic if I’m tired.

     

    #18050
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @chickenelly- sounds more like dyspraxia to me… there is a tendency to lump all the ‘dys’s under ‘dyslexia’ which irritated me when I was younger, because  I read very well (I am however very clumsy, so dyspraxia suits me far better…)

    @Bluesqueakpip- yes, I love my kindle for that. I’m increasingly worried that when my current one breaks/wears out I won’t be able to get a new one with grey background and a keyboard.

    @Craig- the website looks great now. I usually hate it when things change, but I like this. 😉

    #18053
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @miapatrick – yes, they seem to have shifted to ‘virtual’ keyboards. But the e-ink Kindle with the grey background is still the cheapest; which suggests to me that it’s still selling.

    They also seem to be marketing it as ‘easy on the eyes’; sensible, as people are much more likely to realise that screen glare is a problem than they are to have been tested for dylexia or dispraxia.

    I think the modern definition for dyslexia is whether your reading level is below the level expected of your general intelligence.

    #18054
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @miapatrick Thanks. Change is always a risk, but it now works better on narrow screens like phones and on wider desktop screens too. Also, because I built this myself rather than using a template I can quickly change it if need be.

    @ Everyone else. Talking of change, I’m thinking there’s still work to be done. I’m not a huge fan of the Homepage (just a big list of links) or the sidebar (another big list of links that also hides the blog links unless you can be bothered to scroll down).

    So if anyone has a better idea for a new home page, sidebar, or whole new site design/layout, it’s most welcome.

    #18055
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @pedant

    Not just new wallpaper but upgraded WordPress (as you suggested) and finally a proper forum search. Try searching Chekhov (always stuck with me that one).

    #18067
    Anonymous @

    @craig – re the sidebar – I always wondered why we have Recent Forum Posts and Recent Blog Comments when both are combined in the Activity view.  As a bonkers suggestion, what about losing those?  Then the Blog Categories and Recent Blog Posts would be more prominent.  (And maybe increase the number of Blog Posts displayed?)

    Re the Home Page, what about categorisations of episodes?  It might be nice to keep the General stuff there.  But my suggestion might be to list the Doctors with links to the Forums -> Forum -> Episodes page.  (And, list both the Doctors on Home, and the episodes, in numerical Doctor order.)

    This, however, begs the question of how we highlight special categories like the SM Retrospective and BG Episodes.  It could lead to the necessity to update multiple pages every time you drop a new episode into one of those categories (or future special categories created).

    What about Non-Doctor Topics?  Should they stay on the Home Page, or should there just be a link to a page which contains all the thumbnails, descriptions, and links?

    #18071
    Anonymous @

    @craig – another thing I’ve noticed with the upgrade –

    When text is block-quoted, it’s in a different font (fine, helps distinguish it more) but it’s also much bigger.  An example is my post 18064. Is it possible to reduce that font just a tad?  It looks a bit odd to my eyes.

    #18072
    ScaryB @scaryb

    If you want to simplify the Home page –

    how about making new pages (a step back from the home page, but have a link from the home page) – for eg the various retrospectives. That would free up a lot of space while still keeping the current topics easily accessible. (I think that may be what @Shazzbot suggested above, in which case apologies for repetition)

    Personally I like the news feed at the side, but I could adapt if it was felt to be replaceable!

    PS You made this from scratch? Even more impressed with your mightiness 😉

    #18082
    Whisht @whisht

    Hey @craig – loving the new styling!

    its really interesting to me the way the interface has developed over the last couple of days in terms of “honing it” (ignoring the many hours it took you getting it to this point!).

    You’re right that on a mobile the font works very well, but weirdly on a laptop it felt a bit ‘wide’/ airy/ I-have-to-step-back-a-bit-to-read a day ago.

    Until the very light grey was applied as background. Now I find legibility is great on laptop and mobile!

    Its really interesting to me to hear how people actually experience the changes as whether people have a diagnosed condition or not, getting the design better helps everyone (as you might infer, I have an interest in accessibility).

    thanks again (from me at least) for making such an effort for everyone here.

    we’ll have to catch up one day in a pub or something, so I can buy you a pint!

    ;¬)

    #18084

    @craig

    Oh my Lord, I’d forgotten all about Chekhov’s Duck. What larks!

    #18089
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @pedant 😀

    I never forget a complaint (sorry, I mean constructive suggestion).

    I may take a month, or even a year, to fix it. But I will get there. Thankfully, on this occasion, the good people at BBPress decided to build in a better search.

    #18091
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @whisht I thought, was hoping, you were gonna make the Friday meet up in November.

    If not, next time you’re down London way, drinks are in order.

    #18106
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    @craig – just popped in to echo the above praise for the redesign – much better on iPhone and easier on the eye in general.   I had a uni lecturer who insisted that any web pages should be dark backgrounds with pale yellow writing for ease on the eye.  This was early era html with few pics or graphics, so it all just ended up feeling very oppressive.  Grey with black text feels much better to me – neat and easy to read.  I’m gonna pay homage by switching some of our work stuff to a grey background (bandwagon jumper?  Me!?)

    As far as the home page is concerned, I tend to use the activity bar / blog posts / blog comments etc boxes rather than the direct links into the forums, to see where the conversation is at present and what’s new.  Would it be possible to use the top of the home page to highlight the latest blog post, currently most active topic etc,  possibly even a live view of an ongoing conversation in an active topic?  Then below that a few links to sub menus (so just one link on the homepage for the SM retrospective etc) to quickly access the rest.

    Or – to live up to the site byline – could there be a rotating ‘highlight’ reel of comments to emphasize some of the bonkers theories that have been put up – I guess this would need moderators to flag comments they think suitable for this in the db though, so may require too much manual intervention but it would give newcomers an immediate view of what the site is all about.

    Anyway, good work 🙂

    #18234
    FishComBobulated @fishcombobulated

    @craig – Loving the redesign. Worlds better. Gray is the new grey. Could you please add “Web of Fear” to the BG episodes section now that it is released? I imagine I’m not the only old goat giddy to discuss it. Thanks.

    #18236
    Anonymous @

    @osakahatter – I’m glad to see someone else uses the ‘Activity’ stream primarily, and not the recent posts list in the sidebar.  (nudge nudge @craig  🙂   ).

    Also, Craig, it’s different to flip to a particular forum post from the sidebar – you click on the Topic name, than from the Activity stream – you click on the ‘View’ link.  I keep clicking on the Topic name in the Activity stream by accident.

    I know you made a custom hack for the ‘View’ link in Activity (which is so much better than the old way of clicking on the ‘N hours n minutes ago’ time link) but can that same customisation be added to the sidebar?  If not, or if not easily, I’m still thinking the sidebar list is superfluous to requirements …

    #18297
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @fishcombobulated New topics added.

    I was in slightly two minds as not everyone will have watched, but we’ll see how it goes.

    #18308
    Anonymous @

    @craig – in terms of doing an autumn clean-up of your site, I’ve been wondering if the ‘Doctor Who Memories’ topic could be merged with ‘The Faces of the Doctor’ topic.

    Let me know if you’d like a SQL update statement to accomplish this.

    #18322
    FishComBobulated @fishcombobulated

    @craig

     

    Thanks for adding it, and I understand both minds to which you referred. I’m slightly trepidatious adding the first post, but there’s such a wealth to discuss about it that it will be spoiler free (after breakfast and tea).

    #18329
    OsakaHatter @osakahatter

    @Shazzbot – I use both.  When I’m able to visit regularly, I use the recent posts links in the sidebar, but as I’ve been rather overloaded at late and only dipping in and out, the activity logs are great for getting a feel for where the conversation is at.

    #18389
    TardisBlue @tardisblue

    @craig,

    looking good.

    thank you for all that you have done to make this a great forum.

    FWIW, @Shazzbot, I’m with @osakahatter…ambidextrous in my use of both options.

    TardisBlue

    #18404
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @craig

    I like the sidebar. But I could relearn 😉

    I like the links to SM Retrospective and BG Episodes on the Home page – I don’t have to scroll down forever on my phone (usually hitting the wrong bit of my phone at least once, and necessitating a restart).

    #18406
    Anonymous @

    @scaryb @osakahatter @tardisblue

    My argument for losing the ‘Recent forum posts’ from the sidebar is that the Activity stream shows Forum topic posts as well as Blog comments.  It’s better for that; and, crucially, it shows you what someone said.  This is where the various elements composing this site are laid bare – blogs are a different software element to forum topics.  Craig has already added a ‘More site-wide activity’ link at the bottom of the sidebar which is a good start.

    ScaryB – yep, condensing the topics into their own separate pages was a very good change by @craig.  And if you’re accessing the site via a mobile device, your feedback is important for Craig’s vision of how the site can be improved for members like you – and for all members.

    Osaka, that’s an interesting point you make about regular visiting v dipping in-n-out irregularly.  Making this site work for all kinds of members / regularity of visiting is important.

    #18409
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @Shazzbot – I like the sidebar. It tells me who’s chatting about what, where – the Activity page is ‘too much information’.

    I agree that changing all the different topics into BG discussions and the Moffat retrospective was a good move. I suspect we all imagined one or both of these would die a death after a week or two – and didn’t allow for our ability to Just. Keep. Talking. 🙂

    #18411
    Anonymous @

    Have to agree with @bluesqueakpip — I tend to use the sidebar of recent activity as opposed to going to the activity page, which I almost never use. Hopefully I won’t miss too much though now it’s been truncated….

    #18412
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip @jimthefish – what do you think about the ‘Recent forum posts’ being reduced to 5 items?  Would you like to see it expanded back up to 10 or 15 items again?

    The reduction was done in hope that the Blogs might be more highlighted to users.  Of course, @craig could simply change the order of things in the sidebar to accomplish that.

    On the other hand, a completely re-designed Home Page could take care of all of these issues.  This site has been static since its inception in terms of how the Home Page is organised – and I’m one of the ‘I like how it looks now, don’t change it’ brigade – but your feedback Bluey on how the site could be better organised is valuable, especially because of your specialty knowledge in this area.

    #18419
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @Shazzbot @scaryb @osakahatter @tardisblue @bluesqueakpip @jimthefish

    Hi all, I am in two minds about shortening the Recent forum posts sidebar, but I thought I’d try it and see if people can live with it. If not I will of course lengthen it again. Despite my new title I’m in no way a dictator.

    The length was fine before we had blogs, but now that we do, it does mean they are diminished, and I’m trying to find a balance.

    Another thought I had was to put a big “Recent forum posts” box on the Home page. Let me know if you always go to the Home page first and if you think that might help?

    And yet another thought was perhaps not even having any sidebar at all and putting everything in a big footer – that’s what WordPress have done with their latest blog design, and part of me actually quite likes the idea as it puts content front and centre. The footer looks something like this (depending on what you put in it)

    Wordpress footer

    But all thoughts are welcome. It’s still (and probably always will be…) a work in progress.

    #18420
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – I wouldn’t go with a footer, myself. Generally, the first thing people see is the top of the page – if they have to scroll down all the way to the bottom they might not even realise there is a ‘recent posts’ section.

    With the Blogs – I think the problem is that you’re thinking logically. 🙂 That is, you’re thinking ‘Recent Blogs’ must come before ‘Recent Blog comments’. It can be the other way round: recent comments, recent blog comments. THEN ‘Recent Blogs’.

    Or you can even go all wild and whacky and have ‘Recent blog comments’, ‘Recent forum comments’, ‘Recent Blogs.’

     

    #18422
    ScaryB @scaryb

    I do like the sidebar, as I said, and I miss it being longer.

    How about moving Blogs to the main part of the homepage, with its own icon, so it gets a bit more emphasis.  That links to a page which has links to the individual blogs, in whatever order you want to put them, You could then delete the Recent Blogs bit from the sidebar, leaving just the Recent Blog Comments

    The intro on the Homepage could inc something like – Blogs include… (add titles of a selection). Or if it’s not too much trouble to update when a new blog is posted, include the titles of the most recent 3 Blogs

    #18423
    Anonymous @

    Hi @craig – My 50p worth:

    This site is a breath of fresh air when compared to other Doctor Who sites – and other forum sites in general.  It has a USP which in my mind means, it shouldn’t look like other WordPress sites, at all.  Our USP is that we have lengthy, thoughtful, detailed posts which are critiqued, commented upon, criticised, replied to, and expanded upon.

    I know you gave that screenshot as an example to start a conversation; so can I say, it exemplifies everything your site IS NOT.  And should never morph into.

    The challenge is to refresh your site but retain the flavour of its erudition, scholarship, and theorising (bonkers, insane, or otherwise!).  Can I gently suggest that looking to other WordPress sites for design influence might be a mistake?  Unless you’re looking in a negative aspect, that is to say, to see what other sites are doing that are Just.So.Wrong when it comes to designing this particular haven.

    #18424
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @craig

    Perhaps I am missing something fundamental to a web designer, but would one simple list on the right side bar, called Recent Activity, work?

    As there are many of us operating on non-UK time, when we wake up and turn on our computers a lot of activity has taken place. In the past I used to look straight at the right side bar and read the posts. Now, it is broken up, so I go to the Activity link at the top of the page to see what has been happening. I think what I am referring to is that the way UK posters read the site (more “in real time”) and the way those of us in the colonies in both hemispheres read the site is slightly different. At least, that is the way I see it. I may be as wrong as most of my bonkers predictions turn out to be.

    And, of course, many, many thanks for all your ongoing work.

    #18426
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @ All, okay, will scrap the ‘footer only’ idea. Was just an idea 😀

    @bluesqueakpip @scaryb @blenkinsopthebrave

    Yes, maybe I AM just being too logical, too literal, thinking like a programmer rather than a user.

    I think you may be on to something Blenkinsop. I’ll look into it and see if it’s possible. It’s not an in-built option but there may be a plugin.

    #18427
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @blenkinsopthebrave

    I have found a plugin that does mix everything together. However it’s not quite right. It basically just replicates the Activity page in the sidebar.

    I think I can do something better so will do some programming this evening – in your honour I’m now going to pop out for a bottle of wine – that’s how I do my best programming.

    #18461
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    @Shazzbot @scaryb @osakahatter @tardisblue @bluesqueakpip @jimthefish @blenkinsopthebrave

    and everyone else.

    So I spent most of yesterday evening building a new sidebar widget that combines all recent activity together – forum posts and blog posts and comments. It’s basically a simplified version of the Activity page.

    I’ve therefore taken the other widgets away, but have put them prominently on the home page so that you will still see if there are new blogs or new blog comments etc quite easily.

    I think this is the best solution so far and I’m reasonably happy, but would still be interested in your thoughts.

    #18462
    Anonymous @

    @craig – nice new Home Page!  And all the Activity (Forum replies and blog posts) in the sidebar.  Good work.

    I know this is a work-in-progress but I’m as eager as you to hear what other people think of the incremental changes …

    #18466
    Anonymous @

    @craig — yep, I think that looks ace….

    #18467
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @craig – it looks brilliant. The new version of the Home Page is excellent as well – it prioritises what we’re discussing right now.

    #18471
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Just adding my agreement with the general approval re the website revamp. That bottle of wine worked well @craig

    #18475
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @craig

    Just awoke in one of the northern colonies, fearful that I would have to navigate a cluttered front page completely unaided by wine from the blenkinsop cellar (which, I hasten to add, is reserved for evening viewings of the site), and, lo and behold, a simple, clear and elegant page!

    All hail the Emperor!

     

     

    #18486
    Anonymous @

    Nice @craig!  New Matt picture on the Home page.  Things keep get better ’round here.

    (ps: you might want to look at the multiple apostrophes … 😉  )

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