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@haveyoufedthefish – yes.

just yes. thank you.

;¬)

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as others have said (I’m forgetting who came up with which theory – so many!) – we’re seeing Clara out of sequence.

If she was in the Tardis when it exploded (was this @haveyoufedthefish?), then the Claras we’ve seen in AotD and Snowmen, are echoes of this Clara (the Clara of CW, RoA, Hide).

They’re people just as real as our Clara, but as they are the echoes of her, they remember what is happening to her in CW, RoA etc.

For example, Clara sees the Doctor rather ostentatiously drinking milk from the bottle, and it is ‘remembered’ in AotD; she thinks of his chin in Hide, and ‘remembers’ it as “chin-boy” in AotD.
“Os for the win” is a (somewhat childish) phrase of Claras that’s echoed as Oswin in AotD…
I’m sure there are other examples…

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btw – being ‘normal’ means I wasted a disproportionate amount of time trying to figure out an anagram of Clara Oswin Oswald.

[sigh]

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@badwolf – loving your theory, but… I have a slightly simpler theory based on your and @haveyoufedthefish‘s (and others’) great insights:

She’s normal. And being normal, she’s incredible – like all people (including everyone here, awww).

But seriously – her main character trait is Love (ie compassion, human empathy etc). And so far, love has saved the day (not the Dr per se). So naturally she saves the day.
How? by doing what people do – by showing compassion, love, care, worry, acts of kindness etc.

as @haveyoufedthefish asks:

It’s just her presence alone made history shift on a different course, like she’s a big, walking, timey-wimey butterfly effect.

or person (we’re all beating our wings in butterfly strokes, though some of us are a bit more doggy paddle and others splash around quite a bit).

And Clara as the programme – again, no problem there – you could say that the programme has been about how humans do (or more usually don’t) get along. Its allegories of how people are and should be.

Its also defined by the love of the fans (which brought it back to life a couple of times as @bluesqueakpip says so well).

so…. I think that Clara is normal – but like us all is capable of amazing things because we all are.

(apologies – almost needed to get a hanky as had something in my eye….)

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Btw, just before I rush off, I really think the Clara-was-in-the-Tardis-when-it-exploded theory has loads going for it.

If we think of the Clara of Hide etc as ‘our’ Clara, then if she is scattered through time, it is those other Claras that have echoes of ‘our’ Clara (though it feels to us she is echoing them). Eg “Oswin” is an echo of “Os for the win!” in BoSJ.

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Mornin’ all.

Hopefully will get more time tonight, but just wanted to say all this blue and red made me think of 2 more things…

The Tardis is blue.

The old fashioned glasses for watching 3D films had red and blue lenses.

Hmm…

And great spot by @phaseshift in the return of purple.

Though I fear choosing between red and blue things is gonna lead @juniperfish to madness!

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ah – haven’t much time, so a short post.
Loved ‘Hide’.
As with others, I think Clara is a ‘normal’ person, but one reason why I like JLC’s characterisation so much, is because she is obviously intelligent.
I don’t think this companion will be saying “But Doctor, I don’t understand…” in a whiny way.

Which is a darn fine thing (awaits to be proven wrong, so won’t eat my fez when it happens!).

But honestly – if there’s a good role model for kids, its that you can b smart and not be ashamed of it.

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@haveyoufedthefish – loved these!

Made me think that in a parallel universe, Tintin may have been a young cyborg adventurer….

with a K9 called Snowy.

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thanks @craig

[/ awkwardbutwellmeaningfistbump]

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Final one for tonight.

@bluesqueakpip – massive apologies but classical is (yet another) blind spot for me, (I’ll re-read The Rest is Noise as I loved it!).

This guy is more well known than I had realised (I came across him randomly years ago and then buy anything I see of his as its just too achingly beautiful). Not Russian, true, but Estonian.
Cantus in Memoriam Benjamin Britten.
Is a cantus bell the same as a cloister bell…?

I never tire of this music:

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Right – so many to reply to!

However in fear of being Modded by @phaseshift (though I’ll skank with the best of them!) I’ll try this whimsical straight-forward forehand return to @craig‘s The The.

yep – this song and album by The The was a big deal! I remember watching and taping the ‘film’ of the album (on Channel 4)? Matt kinda plowed the same furrow but what a furrow!
I was thinking of either a Neneh Cherry link, or another choon from 1986. Checking iTunes I spotted some corkers (what a great year!) but then saw this –
Talk Talk and “Life’s What you Make it”.

My memory of this song though is a bit different.

I was with my brother and his mates – they were in a rather good local band, and we were in a local pub/wine bar watching them. By this point they knew I could play a bit of harmonica and invited me to play on a song, which is almost certainly the first time I ever played harmonica in public! My brother was just amazed that my cheeks puffed out so much!

Anyway, in that gig, the keyboardist started playing the Talk Talk riff, and the guitarists (who were twins) started playing along, not knowing the song. It was all rather brilliant improvised interplay.

Anyway, obviously no tapes from a pub in the 80’s so here’s the real thing!

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Oi @craig – keep to the topic or you’ll be Modded!

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ah, good.

My votes for 4.

or 2.
3 in a tie-break.

.
.
.
.
Polls don’t work like this do they?
.
.
I’m being silly aren’t I?

.

a) Yes
b) No
c) shut up Whisht

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Hi @chickenelly – I agree – I saw the episode blog and went when there were a few posts (well done @phaseshift) but just couldn’t be bothered.

It just didn’t seem as engaging as here.

I kinda feel bad about that but not too much.

Heck, I’ve only got so many minutes to type and stuff (and lawd knows I’m a slow typer) and I haven’t even replied to any music today!

I just don’t think I can be bothered (but then again, I have few if any thoughts on Pertwee)…

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ah, thanks @bluesqueakpip –

btw on looking for something else on this, I got this from the tardis.wikia:

‘As Oswin remembers being converted, she repeats “Where am I?” multiple times.’

which echoes BoSJ.

hmm…. “where am I?” “Who am I?”…

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hey @jimthefish – is that a poll in itself?

are there multiple answers…?

;¬)

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hmmmm….. [ponders]

btw, is it important that (I think) that “Clara’s” role in AotD wasn’t Clara originally?

That actually the role was simply a genius female human, who falls into the clutches of the Daleks, keeps them at bay with Love, and in the end saves the Doctor (but dies doing so).
Pure tragedy – but Moffat saw a chance (same way he spotted not using the GI for the villain of “House”) to use ‘Clara’ instead of a random genius girl.

In AotD she’s simply an example of Clara Oswald.

or am I misremembering something else..?

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ah @bluesqueakpip – I agree that its interesting, what with this season being all about remembering (expected for the 50th).

Music and smell are both keys to memories (stronger than words or sights).
They seem to knit the memory better. Lock it in some way.

And we’ve had both music and smells this season. And of course memory is essential to answer the most basic question – “who are you?”.

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btw if we had a “thumbs up” button on here, I’d have fucked my keyboard up in the same way me and my brother did with Daley Thompson’s Decathlon.

thanks one and all (especially @htpbdet with his “can I just list the insanity in one place please?”)

;¬)

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oops – I really need to get back to the other thread – I’ve mixed up @bluesqueakpip‘s numerology with @juniperfish‘s Ossirian obsession!

so sorry!
;¬)

[must regain focus – Who Who Who…..]

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@wolfweed – holy shit (and though I swear a lot day to day, I rarely swear when I type!). That’s an incredible clip of Delia!! I’ve never heard that before (ie I’ve never bothered to listen to the Radiophonic Workshop stuff). More fool me.
In terms of a response, I’m thinking Autechre Brochus 2 is (off top of my head) similar. and short (for those dipping in!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZOS5v3K3MA

Not their best work at all, but I’m returning the Delia track (otherwise I’d use something prettier by them like Eutow). Or less techno but more interesting stuff from Four Tet.

really really great lob from you.

[edit – after failing to connect originally, here is a little something from Sonic Boom who befriended Delia later in life… a tad psychedelic if you wait for it…

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@bluesqueakpip – I am remembering correctly and you’ve gone all Egyptian on us….. right?

well, I could go all Bangles but c’mon, you throw an Egyptian shape and I’ve only got one album I can think of!

and luckily for me, I just discovered while looking for this that there’s a film of the magnificent Sun Ra

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so, keeping it sci-fi related (cough cough) here is something for @phaseshift (who almost certainly knows it but might be fun for those that don’t):

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@craig – that’s just brilliant! laughing all the way through!

I was looking for something on youtube that someone I worked with did, but I can’t find it! If I could it would be at least vaguely useful as a return!

Now, you have (rightfully) reminded me that I’ve been off-topic from the start(!) and not been entirely sci-fi thinking!

🙂

so, I have no chatroulette rejoinders, and will only cheer @juniperfish and possibly @scaryb up if I link to this which is referenced at the end of your clip. Obviously, its great but entirely sci-fi free. You could almost say FREE BIRD (hint hint). Can’t even link it to Who (unless I misquote the aria from Carmen).

The fact its a deliberate riposte to Neil Young’s Alabama is a link, but only to my own post!

Actually speaking of which – @juniperfish if you simply type the URL and not click the ‘link’ button, then the browser will do the rest (hopefully this post has at least been vaguely useful!). I think that’s how you’re doing links (in same way I highlighted “this” above, clicked ‘link’ and pasted the URL of the Old Grey Whistle Test into the Link dialogue).

So, I’ll have to have a think, but I’ll try some easier sci-fi related things to some other posts….

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Blimey -you’re all bonkers!!

Next you’ll be saying that the Doctor’s put his soul into the sonic screwdriver just before he hands it to River!

.

Oh…

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he he @craig – yeah why not? I’m in (as long as both online and offline identity not known!)

and no @juniperfish – I’m not RTD, even if my ideas are as naff!

:¬)

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@craig – well that Feeder video is brilliant!!

I’ll admit that its not my favourite song (:¬) but the video is full of really lovely moments of fan-dom!

I have absolutely nothing in response!

An ace!

Your serve again!

;¬)

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@wolfweed – my first reply to you is just a tad po-faced (Boe-faced??)

Slightly better would have been this:

But you have me properly stumped by your original posts which are perfect!
I actually loved the Soviet music! Honestly, I really liked it! and laughed. But genuinely liked it.
Really hard to find a response!

This may even be a bit more po-faced (apologies) but it at least is quite beautiful and joyous and links to Kate Bush as the Mysterious Voices of Bulgaria were featured on one of her albums (they’re quite brilliant on Rocket’s Tail).

But forgive the last song in their set! They had to get bums on seats at their gigs after all (and the genuine warmth of the audience is gorgeous!)

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ah @wolfweed where do I begin..?
I need to do better the the link below, but as a response to your remix, I’ve linked to what I think is the original version, but its hard to tell (i was minus some years) and this is far far too original-sounding.
I’ve never really listened before, but if you didn’t do it electronically, and instead with small orchestra it would sound a bit Robin Hood. (tah dah….. tah da da, dal la laaah) [imagine it on horns].
But Delia ups the driving bass, alienates the parping of hunting horns and instead gives us the future.

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Ah, @phaseshift – completely agree how a song will ‘mean’ whatever it meant at a particular time and its hard to shake it. Its as if music stitches together the neurons which are firing when a strong moment is being remembered and all it takes is for that song (or smell) to come again and that memory is fired back afresh.

As for Soft Cell – you won’t believe me but I didn’t really think of them as gay! Yeah I know – sheltered life.
However, its quite sweet how a bunch of manly heterosexual guys can all jump onto the dancefloor together for Tainted Love!
And if Marc Almond and Jimmy Sommerville dance like this – then we will too!
(So, here’s ‘I feel Love’ for all you lovers out there….)

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nice work @Bluesquaekpip, @scaryb and @juniperfish (and of course @craig all-praise-him).

that by-line made me laugh!
(and after a perusal of the Guardian blog, we need far more of that!)

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blimey @craig – lobs and multiple shots!

will need to listen to these to get proper replies!

But will start with the Orbital serve!
I’ve only got one EP/CD of theirs – Belfast – and I do like it. As you obviously know them well, a bit pointless replying with what I know of them(!).

So, in ping pong style I would try and find something else in it (eg Dr Who related) but… nothing springs to mind! (KLF has been erased from my mind).

So…. a coupla options. Either a piece of dance that uses beats and blips with warmth and beauty (ie something from Anokha: Soundz of the Asian Underground – this is really rather good) or something backhand backspin and based on Orbital’s love of weird headgear.

yep, had to go with this:

If you can get over the ridiculous opening (with “roadeyes” which is why I’m linking this!) then you have a bit of classic Neil Young!

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@craig – I also loved Road to Nowhere. It was great and props to you for buying it!
In shame I think the first single I bought was Money for Nothing!
Unfortunately I listened to their other stuff around that time and though I liked some (Blind springs to mind) I should’ve headed straight to their older stuff. ah well, made it a few years later!

As a response, I could be a bit obvious and put Sledgehammer (for the animated sequence in the videos) but seems a bit lazy and anyway, the Intruders at the Palace concert I mentioned above had David Byrne headlining with a brass band called Les Miserables.
This song is 2/3 of the way through their performance and is kinda the highlight, so if you’re a completist then head to the first track.
However, life is short so here’s “In the Future” which begins with some of the most beautiful poetry I have ever heard.

hope you enjoy it:

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Ok – Haven’t given this enough love yet so… how about some ping pong?

Actually, my next ‘big’ memory also gives me the ability to play ping pong but… here goes!

@phaseshift – really liked the violinist. I hope the small kid taking a picture goes away thinking music can be anything and looking like a Rocker doesn’t mean you’ll only play rock!
In response, here is a cover of the Kink’s Fancy by Hugo Largo. I came across them on the TV in a thing called Intruders at the Palace. Incredible. No drums, just bass, guitar, electric violin and an incredible singers dive bomb vocals. This concert really opened my ears!
Also, this version of Fancy is “my” Fancy in the same way that the first Dr we watch is usually “our” Dr! (and just to try and show how non-muso I am, “my” version of Tomorrow Never Knows is by Phil Collins).
anyway, my ping pong to Ed Alleyne Johnson is Fancy by Hugo Largo:

Most of their stuff was a lot softer (which is almost a shame!)

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Would I be right in thinking that we’ve had the potential for other Drs to be weaved in (a la Big Bang time hopping) in all 3 episodes so far?

The screeching traffic in Bells (while they’re in the cafe terrace).
The Dr disappearing in Rings (coming back eating the blue cake).
Clara unconscious in Cold War (who pulled her out – though probably over-thinking that last one).

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Actually as mentioned before, the oldest question may be the one we all have – “Who am I?”.

I think on the Fields of the Nephilim, that we may learn who Clara is as well…

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Hi @Bluesqeakpip – yep, you’re right, and Warner had none of the preening ego of the Valeyard.

to be honest was throwing it out there grenade style!
:¬)

oh and btw (to be screamed Braveheart stylee):
“I am not a card game – I am a quiet man!”

😉

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hmmmm…. have we had the Professor as the Valeyard yet?

If he’s an incarnation of the Doctor as others have suggested (and I’m happy to believe from his questioning of Clara), then would the only Dr who’d happily use a gun, be the Valeyard?

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1981 – end of the better Baker’s era…. regeneration years…??

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btw I think I spotted a reference to Horror Express (though that may be as its the only film I had to stop watching as a kid as it was so scary!)

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loved it!
Will say something a bit more insightful if I can think of anything(!) but just wanted to say that if you liked the Alien reference as @craig did and are in the mood, Alien is on 4 Film tonight at 9…

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wow @phaseshift! I’m surprised/ honoured you remembered my little question on the TV Memories thread!

For everyone else, basically I was liking reading about everyone’s TV memories so much, that I wondered if a similar music thread would work.

I have a few pretty clear memories of hearing something for the first time at formative moments in my life (as people had done on the TV thread) and I guess I wondered if others had the same.

So, for me, the first clear memory of being affected by music, is aged 10 at home with the family (I’m the youngest with an even 8-year spread of 2 brothers and a sister. And probably conventional for a youngest, in terms of being the ‘weird’ one, in my own head-world).

Everyone was bustling around, setting the table and readying for tea and then I stood stock-still in the dining room and started going “Shh. Shhhh. Shush! SHUSH!!”

This was a first even for me and everyone stopped, not knowing what the hell was going on, trying to work out why I was staring at the wall.

“What? What’s the matter?”

“Shhush”

Incredulous looks and mild impatience.

“What is it?” [what’s he doing this time?]

“The music”

“huh?” A general shrug of ‘what music?’ until they actually heard it.

The radio had been on in the background all this time, but as with radio, everyone was ignoring it.
But a song had come on and I was transfixed because it was alien, strange, unlike anything I’d ever heard before.

As everyone began to actually ‘hear’ the music, they were just incredulous and said “oh for goodness sake – you’re weird!” and finished getting ready for tea.

All this took place in about 10 seconds, but the feeling of standing there, not knowing why but feeling like something important was happening, has been an abiding memory.

The song was O Superman by Laurie Anderson.

Later in life I had other events that transfixed me, but I think this was the first.

So – anyone else got memories of music/ a song changing everything?

If not, no matter and sorry for boring you, but even if this becomes a place to recommend good stuff then great!

.
.
Thanks again @phaseshift – loved the violins btw and kinda links to another memory of music I have…

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Ellie….. LE…… Ravenwwood…. Torchwood…. Oswald…. god-wood…. goodwood/badwood…

dammit – I could never do cryptic crossowrds.
.

.

or spell

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thanks mate – offer still stands.

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Ah @phaseshift that was brilliant! Tom Baker was ‘my’ Who too and I couldn’t agree more with what you said.

I can’t really remember Pertwee (I’m not sure if my memories of him are of the time or from repeats). I have to admit that I don’t really have a memory of Baker’s stories, but what I do have is a feeling of him – he just seemed to have an enormous appetite! (not that I’d have known how to describe it at the time!).

The grin, the petulant look – basically a grownup who’s really a big kid!
Amazingly, sitting here typing this, I realise for the first time that I think that that’s me at my best – when I’m being a big kid, making those around me see things through that lens, having fun.

That’s the impact he had!

Also I agree when you say:

“As a kid during those years I always had the feeling that I was watching something that I shouldn’t be watching. A marvellous feeling.”

Absolutely! – though maybe for me looking back, I think I sensed his appetite extended to more than fun and food, to feelings that hit you in the gut, but no idea to what!

But thanks for putting it all better than I!

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Hi @craig – echoing @juniperfish, unfortunately I have no tech know-how but let us know if we can help.

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btw – has anyone suggested 11 Matt Smiths appearing, each ‘as’ one of the previous Drs?

or (echoing my own Spartacus riff) a whole crowd of Smiths, Malcoviching the whole scene…?

Not Who? but Which…?

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ah @juniperfish, yes….. whisht!

;¬)

Actually, my parents were Irish and not sure but I think it was my dad where “will yer whisht” came from!

Hadn’t thought of the Silence though!!

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@htpbdet – I had a similar thought/theory where the Silence were guarding something dangerous for him. They made everyone forget about it if they ever saw it.
Even the Dr’s forgotten it was that dangerous.

His name being the password for them to fall and stop guarding it…

and @bluesqueakpip – snap! Though I had it as him revealing his name as…. Gallifreyan symbols with a big “Ta Dah!” and everyone going “huh? wha?”

;¬)

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Hi @cariad – you’ve come to the right place!

;¬)

and what I mean by that is that like you, I find people here genuine and friendly.

Unlike me, there are those who can genuinely recommend some great shows (I merely have warm memories of Tom Baker but nothing much specific, except him crouched over two wires, wondering if he has the right to destroy the Daleks). Thankfully not everyone’s got encyclopaedic knowledge (otherwise I’d have been scared off by now!) and there’s people here whose early memories of Who is from the books, which is really interesting.

If anything, I think what’s shared is a fondness for having fun solving a puzzle!

there’ll be loads of good suggestions and I’ll leave it to the those who know loads about the shows, but on getting snared into this place I’ve learnt that even the show runners tell each other to watch the Talons of Weng Chiang…

[Author]

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