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Hey – thanks @bluesqueakpip!

Unfortunately the full image can’t be put into the avatar (ie its not square), but hopefully its enough for people to at least say “huh, is that…? wha?”

Which is generally the feeling I like leaving!

;¬)

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Hi @bluesqueakpip – I’ll trust you on Whithouse!
I’m not a writer so unfortunately only see the surface. Completely appreciate how hard writing must be and writing arcs even more so, so not trying to kick his shins for poor writing!
Just feel that the stories he writes aren’t that interesting – he’s more interested in witty dialogue and so relies on actors a lot more (to deliver it).

But as I say – I’m a glib viewer and I’ve agreed with so much of what else you’ve said elsewhere, so I’ll watch again with a better eye (or ear!)!

:¬)

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hi all – just trying out a new avatar.

Thought my previous one was just a tad…. sinister.
But not necessarily in a good way!

Happy to change back, or try new ones once in a while (though I don’t have many scans of old pictures so… well, they’ll get very random after this…. red bra avatar anyone??!??)

[ahem]

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Hi @miapatrick – yep – agree that’s how the characters started out (ie needing the supernatural to make the shared-house setup ‘tick’ and not be Thirtysomething!) though I’d always thought the werewolf was an alcoholic (not sure why, except for ‘explosions’ of anger every once in a while).

Love your insight into the new characters. Funnily enough, based on that I’d say that they’ve gone ‘back’ to a “supernatural Friends” setup (with they-fancy-each-other and Ross/ Joey partnerships). Maybe the simplicity of this makes it better as well as better actors..? but I still think its maybe down to just having better actors!

but god that whole story arc of the baby was awful. Makes me shudder to think Whithouse is taking over DW. If he tries a grand story arc then we’re doomed. Lets hope he goes old-skool with something far more episodic!

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@jimthefish – Wagon Wheels have jam in them now??

hmmm…. perhaps you can have too much of a good thing….

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blimey &miapatrick and @bluesqueakpip – I don’t think I’ve ever done anything that well!

well done – whatever you (don’t normally) do when excelling, reward yourself now!

;¬)

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Hi @phaseshift,

In terms of Being Human, I’ll admit that I agree its a shame this is the last series.
That’s not because the last couple of series have been particularly good (even though I watched them), but because the actors of the werewolf and the ghost are so much better than the originals.
As I think I mentioned somewhere else, there seems to be a helluva lot of whining in Being Human (if Toby Whithouse takes over DW gawd help us). The previous actors whined in an annoying way, whereas the newer actors are just a bit better and able to do a bit more with it.

This is not (definitely not) because I fancy the ghost.

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Hi @jimthefish,
In terms of Utopia, I think it worked for me mainly due to the great cast and great direction/ art direction. It was beautiful – sumptuous and drenched in colour, wonderfully framed shots, it really hit a comic-like feel (while not going down the “Dick Tracy” route). Also the soundtrack was fantastic – delicate and disturbing and witty.

I can’t really comment on the writing – I’m not a writer, my background is more visual.
The first few episodes I kinda had no idea what was going on; no idea what the individual characters wanted (so no idea why they were doing things). I don’t know if this was the fault of the writing. It was however the actors and the ‘feel’ that won me over.

By the end, I was actually excited about watching the final episodes.

If you do watch it – wear headphones if you can. It will help with some of the dialogue but especially the soundtrack which really comes into its own on headphones.
I may try and watch it again (if only to figure out what was going on!)

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wow – thanks @jimthefish / @phaseshift (especially for the background to his time on Who),

though not a ‘surprise’, nice to know there’s some more to read (pun groan-punishingly intended). Sounds similar to his time on 200AD doing the Future Shocks perhaps..?

btw I think I read that Steve Moore was a bit of a mentor to (the unrelated) Alan.

Anyway, haven’t got all his stuff, but when its good, its very good.
thanks again, really helpful

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ah, really Jimthefish…. not a surprise they’re better than average…. will hunt them out!

thanks for the tip!

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(as jimthefish says)
anyone been watching Utopia?

One of the only programmes I’ve recently made an effort to watch real-time.
actually hands-clappingly good.

visually stunning and though the twisty-turny plot has been done better elsewhere, it was thoroughly good through great direction, art direction, great casting and acting.

hey ho

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ah @haveyoufedthefish, I was wondering if anyone would mention Alan!

Seems to me his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is all about time hopping and wondering who’s around at the time (albeit fictional in that series).

His stint on the Dr Who comics is probably not that memorable (I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone suggest reading them), but surely he’s a better writer now…? I’d love to see him be asked to do something (anything!).

though the ire of his “oh, and you had to make my comic strip into a TV programme…” might wear thin even with him! (btw I loved one interview where he said he did the whole dis-owing thing in a huff and then had 3 or 4 films get green-lit over the same weekend, waving goodbyw to much needed and unexpected money call-by-call!).

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ah but @bluesqueakpip, after seeing Craig’s link of the Daleks, wobbly sets in high-definition 3D just wouldn’t be right!

(though I think you are!)

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I agree @blenkinsopthebrave, but we’ll scare them off with our avatars…

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As ever you’re right JimTheFish!

Quick – over to the Speculation Board!

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ah @bluesqueakpip, I had Omega slowly lifting his helmet to reveal.. Davison!

You can put on a bit of weight in Negative Space (or wherever it was) can’t you?

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They should’ve blown the budget on a 4G version…

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in terms of wild speculation, and although I actually don’t really believe it, and I’ve said before that I was giving up on the anagrams(!), an anagram of “Clara Oswin Oswald” is:
“DW is now also Clara”

a regeneration at the end of the year into JLC??? As I say, even I don’t believe this but just wanted to give @blenkinsopthebrave a bit of bonkersness.

And another for blenkinsopthevbrave could be a tie in to the Hand of Omega.

Dr HoO?

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nice @jimthefish – really like that real imaginary friend.

kids not being believed is a constant for them. Yet they often make stuff up! So there’s a great story in there (a la Cry Wolf) about a kid making stuff up, but then coming across a ‘real’ imaginary friend – who isn’t a monster to the kid, but who somehow feeds off the situation.

Or how about an alien who has a human imaginary friend! Told from the alien’s point of view as well as the kid’s.
Both are seen as ‘monsters’ by the others’ worlds (the alien might have a habit of making human people who annoy it/the kid disappear; the human kid would be a monster for verbally teasing/bullying other kids to an alien for whom conflict and nastiness are horrific which is why they simply make others who threaten it disappear).

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hey – some really nice monster ideas here (and thanks for not tearing mine to shreds!).

I always thought Who’s monsters worked best when they reflected kid’s anxieties – eg Blink (being basically a children’s game), the one where the person repeated exactly what was being said, or the monster-in-the-cupboard/ under the bed.

so, what other kid’s games or anxieties are there? Horribly now, it will probably be based around body image (too fat/ too thin). Or cheating (either for exams, sports drugs etc).

So, how about a monster tempting kids to take a drug/or other ‘magic’ to transform their body, or get smarter… and if that monster is something that themselves once fell to temptation and now tempt others then all the sweeter…

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I’m with jimthefish on this I think.
Though I watch Being Human, I always found it incredibly patchy.
Some great acting (Herrick), some appalling.
And the script is so often people whining which is grating with poor actors.

So even as a Head Writer role I’d be disappointed, let alone a producer, story-arc role (the war baby arc has scarred m I’m afraid!)

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ah – a challenge laid by @rob, so here’s a try at a ‘monster’ who is morally ambiguous (as I agree with @juniperfish that that is far more interesting):

How about a male companion (doesn’t have to have been with the doctor for long) who takes a shine to whoever the female companion is. (not too hard to imagine!)
On a planet, he is attacked by a local baddy (irrelevant who it is), and is left for dead by the Dr.
However, the male companion survives the attack and runs to the Tardis for safety just as it’s dematerialising; jumps ‘into’ it as its fading and… screams… [screams are heard by Dr and companion from inside].
As Tardis materialises elsewhere, Dr and companion rush out to find the male companion in a steaming heap, gibbering and phasing in and out of time. Obviously torn apart from jumping into a dematerialising Tardis…
Dr can’t treat him. So, decides to take him to New Earth and Sisters of Plenitude to heal (before they were doing their nasty experiments). Even gets the female companion to ‘drop him off’ (as otherwise they might recognise the Dr in the future).

However, its the presence of a time-phasing human that actually inspires the cat-nurses to experiment on someone who ‘phases’ the virus out of their body. A human petri dish that rejuvenates…. a necessary evil for the greater good etc. But he suffers decades of pain…

This time-phasing man is finally able to break out (heart-rendingly after everyone else was freed by the DR and not him) and… learns to control the phasing (now that he no longer is in constant pain from time-phasing and virus experiments) and decides to find/follow the Dr through Time to punish him for leaving him for dead. He even suspects that the Dr left him for dead as the Dr was jealous of the companions’ feelings for each other…

So we have a Time Monster – no longer ‘human’, no longer able to love or be loved, torn apart by jealousy of the Dr and female companion’s friendship, able to interfere across timelines… and yet we feel sad for, and slightly unsure if the Dr really did do wrong by him.

somewhere in all that you could have quite a bit of fun with the interplay with characters and notion of what ‘is’ a monster (ie it is the-thing-that-is-not-Human and the Dr made him so).

blimey, is that the time? [gets coat and goes to bed – hope i don’t have nightmares!]

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Ah, @juniper fish, did yo mean “green egos and ham”?

An envious, slightly overacting Intelligence?

(slips out door)

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on another thread, @blenkinsopthebrave was asking for more bonkers theorising, so here goes…

Clara is a manifestation of the Great Intelligence. Have we had that one before?
So, what basis for this… well, I’m on thin ice (reaches for coat) but Oswin (“I snow”) was never enough of a clue but got me thinking…

The GI was able to infect/take over computers before… did it take over the Tardis and make it explode… scattering itself (“I snow”) throughout time… but still not quite right…

But if I was a Great Intelligence trying to find the Dr in order to battle him, appearing as the ‘same’ attractive young woman throughout time, would be the bait I’d use!

bonkers enough?

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hmmm…. Warner heh?
Love the actor but my initial feelings are he’d be less ‘fun’ and more dangerous. There’s a real steel to the actor.

certainly no jellie babies…. he’d make a better Master or First (slightly crankier).

but its always nice to see the big heavyweights of acting happy to be in Who!

Maybe Terence Stamp for Master?? (I kid, I kid)

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ah @craig – I’m afraid I not only know of any books, but I’m not sure anyone else has ever made the connection!

Maybe there is no connection – it only occurred to me when chatting to a mate who’s a parks manager and something about emergent patterns and behaviours made me think of navigating forums and knowledge bases but… it never went much further than that (story of my life!).

To be honest, you’ll be able to tell me more based on your experience!

oh, btw I could never stand Nielsen (no concept of what “design” means – he conflates it with images), but Krug is better, but I’ll see if I can find a booklist a colleague lent me (she’s far more thorough professional than I!).

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oh and righteous vituperation is a wonderful thing PhaseShift

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he he @scaryb, I’ve now realised my avatar is a bit sinister too (thouh maybe i chopped off too much of the letters….

[its not a picture of me btw!]

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Hi guys – I have no suggestions, but just observations!
@craig – obviously you’re a star, @everyone else – you’re obviously stars too!

I just wanted to mention a design process called “desire lines” which I think we’re adopting and it’ll be fascinating to see what happens.

I work in/’do’ user experience and have always wanted to convince a client to create an unordered system; for behaviour to create the ‘experience’ but, well… clients kinda want to know what they’re paying for, and what I just typed either sounds wanky or scary (or both!).

oh, btw – if it matters, if I post to one topic and any moderator happens to think “actually this should be moved to another topic, or cross-posted to multiple topics” it should be fine, as I’ll basically either go to the thread I had posted to and am interested in, or simply look at all recent activity (wherever it is) – which is what i do as i can’t remember where i posted anyway!

oh and btw again – love the Faces thread.

this is fun – thank you!

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ah @phaseshift – its great to have your illicit needs provided for at the corner(shop).

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these seem so….. anachronistic.

Which is somehow… appropriate?

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good call @Pahseshift – whether the writers wrote for her abilities or not, she definitely was able to be a ‘moral’ balance to that Dr. And I was just as dubious about an actress I’d always thought of as shouty rather than intelligent (and I was happy to be proven wrong).

thanks for the link – will watch with interest!

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ah, @jimthefish yes…. erm… no. Really?!??
Mad Mel the mad middle aged Dane??!!?
;¬)

anyway here’s a Facebook update from a mate of mine in Brisbane:

‎31c , 8:30 am, phew … It’s going to be a scorcher today

weirdly, the very next update is from another unconnected friend:

Got visa for Siberia at last!. Next stop thermal underwear shop!

I guess, take care everyone!!

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ah, @janetteb, don’t be so hard on Aus actors doing iconic British characters – Mel Gibson’s done brilliantly (Hamlet, Fletcher Christian, William Wallace).

though you’d obviously Mad Max and Lethal Weapon are far cooler than that effete Hamlet kid.

btw no idea where in Australia you are, but hope the heat and fires aren’t affecting you. take care

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@scaryb and @bluesqueakpip

yeah, I smiled when I read that Tennant and Moffett had had a kid.

So…

the doctor’s daughter is the daughter of the doctor’s daughter, who is the daughter of the doctor’s daughter.

[I’ll get my coat]

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bit before my time but…

Victoria Waterfield?

just because of “water” connections and such.

honestly.

[ahem]

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hmmmm… well, @everyone(!), great theories and not that I’ve read it, but when I looked up previous ‘multiple Drs’ stories I came across “The Eight Doctors” book, which is about the Dr forgetting who he is (due to the Master) and visiting each previous Dr in turn to remember who he is.

um, not particularly going anywhere with this! Just curious how similar storylines develop (and not surprising really).

loving the “50 year gap” incidental reference btw – must look out for next one!!

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@rob – what a brilliant idea!

@craig – are we allowed to use something like a span style with white font?

Personally, it’d be nice to be able to avoid spoilers (however we do it).
It might be to have a separate thread, but Rob’s idea or similar to let people ‘hide’ anything here too in case they’re not sure.

really reall like that idea – like the old-school “accessible” links…

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@phaseshift – ha ha!

there was me trying waayyyy too hard for anagrams like:
now DW is also Clara;
DW now L; CALs OS Aria;
but I hadn’t thought of comedy anagrams…. might have to look again…

DW saw CIA so ran, lol
?
:¬)

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Hi @phaseshift – thanks for that.
As you say, its normal to lurk (I was thinking of the 90:9:1 ratio). And thanks for the invitation to provide some massively ill-informed theorising – I agree it should be fun!!

However I will admit – I’ve practically given up on the anagrams (boo!). Although its been frustratingly fun, so many false leads (Aria, tardis coral, snow, latin numbers, CIA etc) its all too forced.
For instance, as I was trying anagrams and wiki-ing words, I found that that Rory’s name could have come from ‘roric’ meaning “like dew”.
And it was at that point, that I thought I might drop the anagrams!

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Hi all,
not sure how representative I am, so just letting you know what kind of people are here!

Me, I like Dr Who, I’m Tom Baker era, watch it when its on but would never consider myself a Whovian (I don’t know enough about the shows).
However, weirdly(?) the 50th anniversary, the xmas special, JLC, the xmas-holidays-landing-on-a-Tuesday-and-having-time-on-my-hands-needing-something-to-think-about, all mean that I’ve wondered far more than usual as to what’s happening and crossed the lurker to commenter Rubicon!

Given that, the Bookclub idea is quite interesting. It might push me to try and watch to take part in the problem-solving aspect as much as anything. But even if the real Whovians jump in and give actually credible ideas info etc, I’ll probably lurk and read.

Not sure if that helps anyone, but maybe just a wave to lurkers out there who also think of themselves on the periphery!

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of course, there seem to be those who suggest the current Dr is not the ‘real’ Dr (though I don’t know why), so Clara’s program to wipe all records of the Dr (not just Dalek’s) would also affect the memory of whatever he is.

But raising an idea to shoot it down, that’d be the worst kind of “and it was all a dream” type story arc to do.

And although this ain’t Kansas anymore, it surely ain’t Dallas??

;¬o

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@phaseshift – love the spot about telepathy!

To me, that suggests Clara as an incarnation of the TARDIS (telepathic circuits as you say)… most important ‘person’ in DRs life etc…

though perhaps they tried the revolutionary “she’s actually not anyone or anything else and we just invented a kick-ass character” – its a thought at least!

but good spot (and mirrors as a signifier of memory, another good spot as @scaryb says – and thanks for letting us know you can edit recent posts! I’d have cleaned up my original blatherings on re-reading!)

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ok, that was a barmy idea, and prefer ScaryB’s idea that maybe she’s River out of the CAL world (oh, “CAL world” was another bit of anagramming… gawd that stuff mucks you around…).

Anyway, even though my working out is rubbish, I actually quite like “Aria” but no idea if its going anywhere!

Only things I can add are from insomnia and Wikipedia (so not gospel!):

I think Moffat was looking at other anniversaries and groupings of multiple DRs.

Clara’s birthday is the date first and 20th broadcast (the Five Doctors) went out (23rd November).

In the The Five Doctors, we are where it all began, Omega, Rasillon, Eye of Harmony, and why he stole the TARDIS and had to run… (do I remember it right that the TARDIS told him to “Run you clever boy” as he was a ‘boy’ when he stole it?).

The Eight Doctors (book) has Master, memory loss, visiting each DR incarnation to ‘remember’ and crosses into Trial of a Time Lord.
The Three Doctors has Omega, Brigadier and mention of the Yetis.

BTW was it the Great Intelligence that took over the TARDIS and exploded it/crashed it into Amy Ponds garden? I’ve probbly missed something there(!)

And for no other reason than throwing in another red fish, I came across a companion well before my time called Victoria Waterfield (water again!), who would go on to have computer experience… this isn’t massively serious, and I know its not right as the actress actually bears a resemblance to Clara which is way too much of a coincidence!

I wonder if “insomnia” is a good name for wiki for daft thoughts…?

;¬)

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Hi all.

I have a slightly bonkers addition to all this.
best sit down with a glass of something methinks (or is this how this idea started…?)

If Clara is River’s daughter, I think she’s the daughter from within CAL.
Meaning that Clara is an OS (of sorts), but completely capable of sorting out Dalek’s OS’s etc.
Now, how did she gain form..? No idea (but whatever it is, its how she gains ‘form’ throughout time).

How did I come by such an outlandish idea? Well, I’ve been trying to anagram her full name (Clara Oswin Oswald), which has addled my head, and have got 2 that gave me the idea (which surely means I’m barking up the wrong timestream):

DW now L; Clara is a OS
DW now L; CAL’s OS aria

Has anyone ever spotted aria in relation to the Library/CAL story?

right, I need another drink….. (or maybe not)

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Just wanted to say thanks Craig!
Not sure if I’ll post anything, but happy to be along for the ride!

[Author]

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