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    you think I wouldn’t give you THIS ONE?????!!???

    c’mon….. pretty sure its a fave of yours


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    Hi @craig

    My maths is usually wrong but I think that this was number one when you were born.

    And actually, I think this sums you up as well (and possibly the thoughts of those here who are here because of you, too)

    Happy Birthday

    (I chose the live version as maybe has a bit more warmth if that’s possible!)

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    @craig – a belated Happy Birthday.

    Left you something on the jukebox…

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    @thane16 – soooooo good to hear from you. Really really good. Hope you’re keeping well.

    @miapatrick – really sorry to hear about your situation. I have no wise words, or advice or anything of use. Others here have said far wiser and compassionate things so just know that even the tongue-tied and those who never post and simply read are thinking of you.

    @blenkinsopthebrave – happened to me too (off-licence that is!). I’m bereft. [btw should put it on appropriate thread but not yet seen Picard – need to find a few days I can max-out the free CBS trial to see the relevant STNG episodes!]

    Great to see other names here again too.

    Here in my area of London its a mixed picture. Streets are pretty empty. Orderly distanced queues waiting to get into corner shops and chemists. But a major park closed and too many people (like me!) thinking a walk on the canal would be good exercise (sadly can’t do that again!).

    Last night the 8pm applause I only heard about 10mins before while watching the news.
    Leaned out the window and was amazed to hear the cheers, clapping, whistling (I added some of my own).
    My area is quite mixed (£1+m apartments; council flats; quite even mix of ‘social grades’ etc); people don’t know their neighbours (even next door flat) so to hear so many people clapping and whistling and cheering and then hooting horns… was quite amazing. Never heard something like that before – closest would be New Year’s but that’s groups of people, parties etc.

    I hope our appreciation extends beyond a crisis. I hope the Tories never use the words “economically valuable” when talking about immigration ever again. I won’t hold my breath.

    Stay safe everyone

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    I know I’m massively late on this but just watched DotD and loved it completely (again).

    Maybe its unfair to compare it to the recent couple of seasons as it feels like a ‘special’ but…. ah, the warmth of writing and acting is just enveloping.

    But also the switches of emotion.

    And as others have said – Hurt’s Doctor is instant. Not sure any have achieved that except Hartnell.

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    ahh, I have Music to attend to!
    I’ve already managed to share both the teacher-guitar-player and Lehrer!

    Not sure who to share REM with (stop sniggering at the back!) but will enjoy it nonetheless!

    As the DoTD will be something to entertain people over next couple of days I’ll ration my music posts but just had to thank @blenkinsopthebrave ‘s link to a wonderful Canadian resource!

    here’s a nice tune I guess….

    But perhaps the title of this one is more in touch with the times:


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    So, while walking through Trafalgar Square on Friday and seeing it empty(!) I got a shock.
    But I can only imagine that that will be amplified over the coming weeks.

    Now…. @mudlark has shown me that it is possible to do humour and a message but.. I’m a simple person, so here is all I got.

    fwiw I thought this music was simply from ’28 Days Later’ but on looking for this, it seems it was originally from ‘Day of the Dead’ and was a meta reference.
    Who’dve thought about media-meta-references… certainly not Doctor Who!


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    @mudlark – bravo!

    and there was me wondering whether the choon I was about to put on the Music thread might be…. problematic.

    fuck it. We need a laugh AND we need to know what fucking egregious stupidity is being done to us.

    the music is mainly a laugh though, so thanks for the ‘these arseholes are killing you because they don’t’.


    But you managed both the message and the humour – I need to raise my game….

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    Hi @bluesqueakpip – sorry to hear you’re having to self-isolate.

    Its being referred to as “social distancing” but is more accurately “physical distancing”.
    We shouldn’t socially distance ourselves and thankfully that is one of the strengths of online (and this forum!).
    Hope you feel better soon.

    And @nerys – although your symptoms do sound slightly different, its still horrible having a cold. Hope you feel better soon and also that you see your parents at some point this year.

    I haven’t stocked up. I will pick up some pasta etc (if I can find any!).

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    So, an odd post for people that have died recently.

    Max Von Sydow – titan of acting. I only know of one musical piece that his voice is used in.
    Its good, but probably better to remember him through his work!

    “Klytus I’m booooored…. What plaything can you offer me today?”

    Also after mentioning Industrial music I had thought to mention Throbbing Gristle.
    However yesterday Genesis P Orrige passed away (or laid down their body).
    Its not music that is easy to share, so I won’t inflict it (especially as I don’t listen to it myself!). But still, a passing worth mentioning.

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    ah – I thought I’d come to the Pub to say a shout out then realise I forgot to mention Sydow!
    I will make amends to him and another on the Music thread.

    All I wanted to say is that I know that everyone will be having to deal in different ways with the Covid-19 pandemic. Some here will be at risk more than others, but we all can help through hygiene (wash your hands whenever you can with soap eg when entering a building/ home etc) and self-isolation if feeling even slightly ill (when that’s the advice relevant to your specific situation – ie for some of us here it might be go straight to emergency services).

    This situation will be affecting us acutely for the next year, so just wanted to say take care everyone, take care of others locally, and hope everyone stays safe.

    sorry – too many words.
    Don’t wash your hands of others.
    Wash your hands for others.

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    maybe it was this (but with more ‘clang’) – but maybe it wasn’t Depeche Mode at all that I’m thinking of.

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    Hi @peacefrog – apologies for delay in responding!

    Loved the Charlie Brown / Pink Floyd mashup!
    Before I heard it I was wondering “oh my god, the characters sung this??!?” which led to thoughts of the Langley Project! And then I thought “actually that’d fit with Floyd in terms of Another Brick in the Wall!

    I’m sure someone’s done it – but I must Google harder!


    Yes the Industrial music sounds I mentioned were the music that accompanied the Cybermen in recent episodes. There’s a definite ‘clang’ sound that I know but can’t find the song I know it from.
    I’m not big into the German Industrial scene (eg Neu!) so although I’m sure the sound is there I doubt that’s where my memory is. Hence me thinking it must be more mainstream like Depeche Mode.
    But although I like them I’m not deeply into them so… ah well. I’m sure someone will learn me!

    Anyway, in terms of DM here’s an obvious one with shades of the ‘clang’ if not the thing that’s rattling around in my head (my memory is probably from DM music from a mate from Uni days but that was all on cassette!)

    Thanks for the Ministry though!

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    Interesting discussion – thanks @phaseshift for the insight into ‘franchise’.
    And thanks @bluesqueakpip for giving me reasons to be a bit kinder to this story (arc?).

    For me, I like that Whittaker’s Doctor has developed over two series. I think it was conscious – almost a reverse of what they’d planned for Colin Baker.
    For WhitDoc she’s Fizzy at first. Now she shows Fission. Perhaps Fury in Series 3?!
    Agree with you it feels like a planned 3 series Arc (forgive me if you didn’t mean that).

    I’m still a bit uncomfortable that the Doctor is ‘super’/ ‘special’ in some way (more than being a TL!).
    I always thought part of the charm was that the Doctor was considered a somewhat mediocre Timelord, but who showed their qualities through kindness, heroism, selflessness (while also being tetchy, selfish, pompous etc). A ‘renegade TL’, a rebel. We can all identify with that (especially if we ourselves don’t rebel).
    Just feels a bit ‘oh s/he was special all along – maybe their virtues are due to their specialness, not their decency in overcoming their background’.

    I’m also really a bit mixed with how I see her deal with violence in this series. I guess the First Doctor had their rock, and selfishness. Now we have a pre-Hartnell Doctor that is fine with guns, viciously ripping horns off Judoon and allowing Ko Sharma to kill all life on Gallifrey.
    Unlike Blue I don’t see the Doctor learning to allow Ko Sharma to take responsibility for his actions.
    I see it as giving up on saving Cybermen and Master (oh well) but far worse in killing all life on the planet. While watching I assumed Shobogans were still alive and maybe miniaturised TLs ‘saved’ by the Master for use by the Cybermen.
    I guess it doesn’t feel a natural development for this Doctor, but I’ll re-read Blue’s logic and maybe it’ll win me over.

    However, what is really good is that Whittaker is playing the Doctor in a nuanced way now and I like that. Also Chibnall did seed much of the final denouement through the series (DNA tampering, mind-wipes, everyone-seems-to-be-the-Doctor, etc). [btw Ko Sharmas had a very Doctor-ry hand flutter over the controls before being told not to touch!]. The production especially of the finale is incredible (maybe a lot of focus and effort went into the first and last two-parters and poor ol’ Orphan 55 was left… an orphan).

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    So – The Timeless Children.

    Peacefrog has already done The Robots earlier this series so I’ll do the song I’ve held back on as I assumed we’d get to Gallifrey.

    btw enjoyed the Industrial theme for these Cybermen again.
    May post some more Industrial music like that!

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    So… must admit I agree with so much of what @jimthefish (and @badwolfalice ) said.
    I think it’ll be retconned soon enough, but that’s a writer’s preserve (maybe that the child was a TL child dropped back through time eg the Great Boundary; so a paradox, seeding the ability to regenerate upon themselves).
    They’re adding ‘mystery’ as they wanted to do around McCoy’s time (is this a version of Cartmel??).

    There are odd inconsistencies but no odder than most stories(!) [though I dislike her running away to allow Ko Sharma to kill everything on Gallifrey – that feels very wrong to not allow/stop him from doing that – she gave him the bomb]

    I agree the Lone Cyberman had a lot more potential but then, that’s maybe because he was the Cyberman’s Davros.
    I’ll admit that I don’t much like Dhawan’s Master – I happen to dislike whispering on a mike and with that added to his over-the-top-ness, its just not as interesting as what Gomez gave.

    But the Doctor’s aim is “to make a difference”. Fair enough.

    Someone was asking about Tectuin’s name and it sounding similar to someone – maybe the Great A’Tuin or an Aztec god…

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    though my link-stepping now leads me to Cybotron with its very Kraftwerk-esque piano chords (synths?) and overall sound (though a lot more dance-y).

    Its electro – so connects to Tesla too…

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    So – Ascension of The Cybermen

    I’ll go with this as the soundtrack had a definite clang/ industrial techno but not too weird edge to it.

    However I could also have gone with this one from Depeche Mode (there may be even more appropriate songs by them). But this one does deal with getting through bad times and having support to get through those. Its a great track.

    oh, and yes, the Metal on Metal track by Kraftwerk was sampled on this by Afrika Bambaataa.
    An absolute classic.

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    Lots to say about this episode but mainly I really liked it. Pacing was better, several strands but easy enough to follow each.

    So this week’s episode was brought to you by the subject Religious Fundamentalism, refugees are ordinary people, and the sound of metal (I’ll do that on Music Thread).

    The Lone Cyberman is great. He is a believer. He volunteered (to be upgraded). He was rejected (shades of “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone” ?)
    But now believes he is “chosen”, the “perfect vessel” for the “death of everything is within me”. What is that death to everything…? Just being an even ‘better’ Cyberman that can feel emotion – which in his case is hate? [hope not as that’s what the Daleks are!].

    Brendan – the Boy in the lane.
    While watching I had thought the Doctor had left him (that would be revealed at the end of the story), but when at the end of the episode his father and the Gardaí took him in (appearing as they looked 40 years before he looked like this), then I thought “is Brendan something that needs to experience human life and then repeat that?” perhaps in order to learn what humans are – their emotions – and how to defeat them.
    Maybe his life is purely virtual and not real (the sepia glow being even more appropriate).

    His ‘torture’ is reflected in the Cybermens’ torture by the Lone Cyberman “that makes other Cybermen scream”.
    Brendan’s having his memories wiped (!!) they’re having their memories returned.

    In Utopia Professor Yama said that he was discovered as a baby (on the coast of the Silver Devastation – which could then be fudged/ retconned to Cyber massacre?). And his watch/ Brendan’s clock…? But… nah.

    The Boundary – refuge for whoever approaches (so Doctor sees Gallifrey).
    Ko Sharmas as guide/ psychopomp(?) (especially with that Druid-y staff).
    Now I read here that its the same actor as ol’ Brendan?? Really? erm… not sure what to make of that!

    But beginning to think that the Master really is The Wizard of Oz…

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    @craig – thanks for that anecdote. I appreciate how his ear picks up on stuff (though absolutely not saying mine could). In fact I appreciate it because my ears couldn’t!
    Your posting of both tracks for me really showed that too.
    The Guardian linked to various tracks; they’re all dance/ dubby and most are new to me 30ish years later, but they’re all really good. Two Lone Swordsmen especially – and I’m not even a clubber as I know you are. I was only ever on the fringiest of fringes and would probably say “ooh, I like the Orb” and then get told “yeah – Weatherall’s part of that too”.
    He had an ear and could hear something that could become something else.
    A sad loss.

    I’m now lost in Youtube listening to Happy Mondays – Hallejujah and even James Come Home remix.

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    btw… has anyone been keeping check (or stripe!) on the Doctor’s clothes?

    I noticed that she was wearing a Fourth Doctor-esque striped scarf at the end of this episode.
    I haven’t been looking too closely in other episodes and before I do (or fail to do!) if anyone else has then pile in and mention!


    Maybe its nothing but… maybe there are clues (oh for the days of Blue and Red!)


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    The Haunting of Villa Diorati.

    Seems Chibnall has remembered his overarching Kraftwerk connection…

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    @craig – christ I can smell that weird perfumey smell from the dry ice like it was last night.
    I must’ve danced to it loads.
    Mates had the album and I just couldn’t figure how that band that I was never that impressed with now sounded so damn funky/ dancey.
    Thanks for the link to the original song as shows what an amazing ear Weatherall had to find/ create something original out of that track.
    Far too young and still making great music.

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    I enjoyed this one too.
    I liked that tonally the guests and Doctor and Companions were quite distinct. For me that worked.
    Also agree with @blenkinsopthebrave that the pacing was better (and allowed them to split up but not to the point of splitting storylines).

    Also loved the line “Is it too late to choose another group?”

    Agree also that some bits jarred but overall enjoyed this one.

    Off to post the obvious music (Chibnall seems to have remembered the music-thread that links this series!)


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    so, I’m assuming “Can You Hear Me?” is a reference to a song.
    There are loads of songs with this title but looking at some of the lyrics they don’t seem particularly linked to the episode themes (so no links from me to Bowie or The Who!).

    I did find this – it ain’t really my ‘thing’ but its ok (yessirree I can damn with faint praise!).


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    I’ve not really been commenting much on the episodes.
    Usually everyone here covers all (and then much more!!) of my thoughts.

    Oddly with this episode I find myself agreeing with @jimthefish but also with those more disposed toward it.
    Personally I found the Graham and Doctor interaction at the end jarring, but not because of past Doctors and how they might have handled it.
    To be honest I don’t mind Doctors differing wildly from one regeneration to the next. Is Davison like Pertwee?
    But I thught I’d seen Whittaker very empathic in previous episodes (maybe last season) so it felt odd for her to be unable to interact.
    However maybe that’s my bad memory as I don’t have examples to hand!

    I guess overall for me this episode was ‘better than some’ of this series (which is hardly insightful, which is why I’ve mainly been struggling to think of music tie-ins!)

    In terms of arc… I can absolutely see one or two or even all the companions being separated from the Doctor (an each other!) at the end of this series (though maybe not separated forever).

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    so, music for ‘Can You Hear Me?’

    Obviously there’s a Kraftwerk connection, though I’ve struggled to find one.
    I mean, there must be – its not like Chibnall would go to the trouble of finding links and then just forget or use other songs by random bands.

    I mean, that kind of lack of consistency would be…

    I’ve struggled and am avoiding the obvious ‘home’ one as I’m guessing that’s for the finale (not a spoiler, but surely The Doctor goes home at some stage??).

    So, here is the eerie Mitternacht

    These songs by other artists did pop into my head, but I’m not really very good with lyrics so maybe they’re not good choices!
    However, here is The Hurting by Tears For Fears and Lost & Found by Lianne La Havas.
    Both quite sensitive in their way.

    But if you like your geetar alt/Rock (Post-Rock?) then turn it up to full volume for this nightmarish piece by Slint. Honestly, loud.

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    I am truly sorry for your loss.
    I’ve lost parents, relations and friends but not a sibling.
    I don’t have words. But I also don’t have appropriate music.

    @thane16 rightly gave Arvo Part. If she hadn’t, that particular piece may have been what I would have posted here.

    I tried finding music and am here crying: for you, for my parents and for friends.

    This music (lyrics etc) is probably inappropriate, but its the music that I have that brings me yearning for someone that is beyond reach.

    take care and all my love.

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    @beechgirl10 – welcome!
    Feel free to chat about any of the episodes, but in case you didn’t know, if you wanted to tell how you came across Who, then there’s a ‘Memories’ thread.
    (though it ain’t obligatory – I don’t think I ever did!)


    Hope you have fun!

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    @blenkinsopthebrave – thank you so much for this!
    Will watch these ones specifically.
    I’ve seen random ST Next Generation episodes but probably not the later ones, so was curious if there were storylines that would enrich (or make sense of!) the new series.
    Might even watch something tonight! Thanks again

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    @thane16 – hey you! Hope everything is good with you.
    Love the music!
    Da Pacem is just…. {sigh} and now I realise there’s an entire album called Da Pacem and not just the opening piece! Usually I wait for serendipidy when buying music (ie it turns up at a charity shop) but on this occasion I reckon I need to actually get it!

    Sometimes I have Arvo Part on headphones when I’m reading but if this comes on (or a few others) I have to stop and listen.
    Then I stick a bit of Eno on, as its less likely to intrude!

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    @peacefrog – indeed, if I hadn’t found the Florian one I was planning on that ol’ Auton fallback Showroom Dummies and say “well, the Doctor did mention them!”

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    he he @peacefrog – I have my bonkers theory and will flog it till it stops moving!

    Then i’ll kick it and cry “see – it’s still alive!”


    But you’ve got me on that Kraftwerk track – I can’t make it fit with the series or episodes (I should think harder I know!). I’m sure it will be a face-palm moment!

    But yes, I guess I’m hoping at least one of the next episodes deals with motorways, cycling as environmentally friendly or… Autons!

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    Hi @blenkinsopthebrave
    I’m thinking about watching the Picard series, but wondered if you had thoughts on which Trek films/ episodes I should watch first.

    I’ve seen a random selection of Star Trek, never a full series. So if you happen to know a storyline that might make sense to watch (in terms of Picard) or film where its kinda necessary to know so-and-so did this, I’d be grateful.

    However, that might also be like someone asking “hey – I want to watch this thing called Doctor Who. What should I watch first?” and the answer being ‘dive in, they’ll use exposition (sometimes well and sometimes clumsily!)’.


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    So, for Praxeus (bold as love? nah, though what it does reference I’m a bit mystified about…) it seems that Chibnall is a real geek of Kraftwerk.

    He’s referencing Florian Schneider’s solo work!


    (The beginning made me think of this but these songs are very different)

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    ha ha @peacefrog – I love a lyric that is completely exposition!
    Though I think I’m more of a Swamp Thing person myself (though not as cerebral!).

    Weirdly I don’t think I’ve ever seen the video for Hit.
    Which makes me think just how did I ever hear those Sugarcubes songs??!?

    I guess I must’ve bought them or had someone make a mixtape for me.
    Its all a bit blurry now….


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    I can only think of one other main character from the Wizard of Oz film and I’m now beginning to hope this theory will happen!

    Toto – Dorothy’s pet.
    Based on what the Master said about pets before… Clara is coming back!!
    Clara and Whittaker Doctor… I reckon that chemistry could work!


    “Fangasm” is probably what I’m now being guilty of.


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    Ooh never even heard of the Toadies before! Thanks for that!
    And always love a bit of Bjork – even when I don’t like some of her music, I love that she writes it! Always pushing herself. Wonderful. (and always brings back watching a bonkers interview she did when in the Sugarcubes talking about a TV… When she says “city” I fell in love a bit more!)

    Oh, and wasn’t saying anything to diss Tom Petty. Certainly not the Paul Simon “oh did Carty play that to me?” thing ;¬)
    I guess its just the folky tinge made me think of other folk songs (but can’t figure which). But love hearing new songs and reading about it just now it seems it came to him fully formed too!

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    @blenkinsopthebrave – methinks #2

    Glinda – Good witch who appears at convenient times (early on and at the end) to nudge Dorothy along.
    With Dorothy being The Doctor, and Captain Jack appearing with a nudge and then promising to be there at the end… but surely they wouldn’t do that gag.
    Glinda is kind’ve the Fairy Godmother….

    yeah, actually – Glinda is Captain Jack


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    @blenkinsopthebrave – he he ;¬)

    Glinda – Good witch who appears at convenient times to nudge Dorothy along; RuthDoctor methinks!

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    @blenkinnsopthebrave @rob

    I kinda now think this theory is less ‘bonkers’ and more ‘I kinda hope not as it’d limit the characters’ so I’ll leave it alone and try something more daft (like following up on RuthDoc being the Master ;¬) ) but to belabour this one, there were two major characters I forgot to do…

    Dorothy – she wants to go home (and presumably grow in most adolescent-hero-journey terms); The Doctor (ie WhittakerDoctor) wants to go home but is also now in a reality that feels slightly odd.
    The Wicked Witch of the West – she’s just nasty (though she wants something from Dorothy) so makes sense just to think that’d be the Master. However…
    The Wizard of Oz – is a powerful, frightening ruler yet… is revealed as a sham, someone with no power at all. If this were the Master, perhaps that’d be closer to him realising about himself that all the shouting, the seeming power and control of others are “all a lie”. Such a thing would crush him…

    Scarecrow – wants to be smarter; has Graham had a habit of thumping his head and saying “I know this” while trying to think of something?
    Tin Man – wants a heart (empathy) – Yaz has loads of empathy but riffing on @bluesqueakpip ‘s earlier thought as to whether Yaz might want to suggest a ‘for-the-many’ solution by sacrificing one, this could be a moment to ‘learn’ this is ethically…. dubious (at least arguable!);
    Lion – Ryan constantly battles his nerves and lack of self-esteem. But like all the companions in Wizard of Oz, they already have the gifts they always thought they needed…

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    @blenkinsopthebrave – I wholeheartedly agree and truly hope none of my bonkerising is anything like the actual storyline!


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    Now this band may be considered (cruelly) as Flaming Lips-Lite but they do prove that really good choruses are a bloody good thing.

    This song is all chorus.

    And its a bloody good thing.

    And makes me smile


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    @peacefrog – not heard Wildflowers (Tom Petty) before; its rather pretty and it oddly sounds familiar, so I wonder if its a traditional melody..? (I won’t invoke @thane16 ‘s or @arbutus ‘ and others’ insanely hooge knowledge of earlier music – its not just SNL skits! ;¬) )
    btw I agree that only fans of Pearl Jam knew they were on the Neil Young album at the time, and as you say maybe not much wider than that.

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    @rob @blenkinsopthebrave
    I think that if there any allusions to Oz then I hope(!) that they aren’t too literal (as I think it’d reduce the companions rather than extend them).

    However… not wanting to leave a bone or catnip alone…. one could have:
    Scarecrow – wants to be smarter; has Graham had a habit of thumping his head and saying “I know this” while trying to think of something?
    Tin Man – wants a heart (empathy) – Yaz has loads of empathy but riffing on @bluesqueakpip ‘s earlier thought as to whether Yaz might want to suggest a ‘for-the-many’ solution by sacricing one, this could be a moment to ‘learn’ this is ethically…. dubious (at least arguable!);
    Lion – Ryan constantly battles his nerves and lack of self-esteem. But like all the companions in Wizard of Oz, they already have the gifts they always thought they needed…

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    @arbutus – I was trying to find some Chinese/Scottish mashup and wasn’t able to!
    But thanks for the Gung Haggis Fat Choy link – they have haggis wonton (and no, its not one tonne of haggis!). They even manage to have dim sum turnip!
    And there was I thinking there was no way to mix haggis and Chinese food!

    @peacefrog – thanks for the Deep Purple… not a band I know much of (obviously they’ve always been around!). I guess I just never developed that heavy prog thing, though I did dabble with Floyd and other things… But its always good to listen and see if it finally bites!
    Oh, and that Creature from the Black Lagoon at least has more motivation than the Dregs…
    I know the Red Hot Chilli Pepper song but didn’t know its name – nice ‘parallel universe’ track!
    Thanks for the Neil Young song too – not heard that album and interesting to not use Crazy Horse (who are stodgy at best). I’ll check it out.

    @bluesqueakpip – didn’t know the Master liked Scissor Sisters! Hilarious (good choon though)!


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    @blenkinsopthebrave – its an interesting Oz allusion.

    I wonder if the lone Cyber/Tin Man will be important?
    A chopper-down of trees… (back to Orphan 55?? gawd hope not) who asks for a heart… but should not be given one (because it means the ‘end’ of Cybermen and so is an echo of Genesis of the Daleks “Do I have the right?”) or because they would be unstoppable…?

    tbh it may be just for throwaway lines and spinning houses in the air; more catnip-clues-for-bonkerising.

    Generally I think that if they’re trying to give the Doctor some ‘mystery’, then answering all this would actually leave us with no mystery, so I’m resigned to loose ends!


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    So – I think I have it.

    RuthDoc is The Doctor. But she won’t always be.
    She’ll become The Master.

    So… now for some timey wimey effwittery to get this bonkerising to be the case….

    There once were two friends at the Academy on Gallifrey.
    One was a bit more distracted than the other. This one had to re-do their exams etc and stay at the Academy an extra year.
    But the other friend was smart and she passed as expected, became a Time Lord and was given the title/name… “The Doctor”.
    This name was one that called for the TL to be wise and caring and helpful etc etc.
    Unfortunately this TL was none of these – in fact she was a bit of a git.
    So bad in fact that the TLs had to ‘recall’ The Doctor to Gallifrey and remove that title/name from her (oh the indignity!).
    They gave her another title/name and mind-wiped the memory of being The Doctor. And then had to give her another title/name as she failed to live up to that one either (and another mind-wipe). And again, over and over going through various title/names with various mind-wipes. She wasn’t up to any of them.
    In the end the TLs sarcastically gave her the title/name “The Master”*.
    [Obvious the multiple mind-wipes did nothing for her mental stability.]

    They gave the title/name The Doctor to the friend at the Academy who had finally passed their exams and was ready to become a Time Lord. They told this one “you need to make sure the name ‘The Doctor’ only means good things etc”.
    We know The Doctor, this Doctor, as its our Doctor, the one we first met as HartnellDoc.

    The O’Master has returned to Gallifrey and discovered the terrible truth of how s/he wasn’t good at living up to any of the names s/he’d been given and how all the TLs laughed at him and its all a lie… (and then went and invited the Daleks in for tea to destroy Gallifrey).

    RuthDoc hasn’t yet been recalled for being ‘a bit of a git’ so thinks of herself as The Doctor, but knows she shouldn’t really shoot people/ rip their horns off etc.



    * yes this entire season is all a gag about being a jack-of-all-trades and…

    Whisht @replies

    @bluesqueakpip – so is your theory that the Doctor has mind-wiped herself (or allowed herself to be mind-wiped)?

    I’d go for that!

    But still wonder if a choice needs to be made at the end, between ‘our’ Doctor and RuthDoctor – that a choice needs to be made ‘for the greater good’ (as you’ve suggested about Yaz) that changes the relative future.

    Methinks RuthDoctor would say “do it” (even though it means she never existed), our Doctor hesitate, and Yaz…. hit the button!


    Whisht @replies

    So, For Fugitive of the Judoon, methinks Chibnall is again channeling his inner Kraftwerk.

    Two Doctors you say?

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