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Hi @scaryb – there may not be much time looping but….

there’s a really ostentatious and unnecessary squealing of wheels in tBoSJ when Clara and the Doctor are on the balcony of the cafe.

Unless its a Chekhov’s Herring (of the reddest kind…)?

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Hi @scaryb – I know, the poor lamb mistook agreement with agreeableness.

and yes, this place is still organic – we’ve just simply pointed out where the main tracks are, rather than laying down pavement and “keep off the grass signs” (that’s an oblique ref to “desire lines” to make @craig smile!)

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@craig – that’ll have been tough for you as I know you’ve wanted to keep this space as organic as possible. However it’s a great page and needed to be done, so well done!

I remember someone on the guardian snidely saying here was where everyone agreed. I couldn’t be arsed replying and setting them straight as they may have taken it as an invitation.

Here is not where we all agree – there’s quite a bit of disagreement.

They just didn’t recognise that, as here we are polite.

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@htpbdet please do keep rambling on.

Really enjoyed reading your memories and what the show means to you.
I love the fact that we have many voices here, from the tender to the silly, and so glad people know they can be both (and so much more in between).

Ah, @whohar has said it much much better than I

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@haveyoufedthefish – brilliant but that’s enough now.

the meme is over.

You’ve jumped the shark.

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.

.

[oh bugger]

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not only important but educational – I had never even heard of Chekhov’s Gun before now!

as for Chekhov’s Duck – inspired!

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Oh @whohar, do keep up.

Strax is the Doctor’s daughter

Tsk, it’s like people don’t even follow this thread…

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Here’s something that my brother (or should that be “me bruvver” if we have this North/ South thing going on…. which reminds me….. here’s a link to a North based song for all you Fall fans).

anyway (back on track), something brilliant my brother did for my birthday several years ago, was to buy me the single of what was number 1 on that day.
Simple idea, but bloomin’ lovely!

So here’s what was number 1 when Dr Who first aired 23rd November 1963

so – what was your number 1…?

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Hey @satsumajoe – music has indeed been pondered before!

Quite a few people here have had theories involving it – one great one in terms of the dualities throughout the series (red/ blue; good/ bad; heart/ intellect; love/ hate etc etc) was:

silence / music (kudos to @bobbyfat for that one!).

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ah @fulcanelli – you managed to get through more pf that film than I obviously!!

You have a strong constitution (or weren’t ~6 when you saw it!)

;¬)

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btw – I think I know who Clara is…..

Well, lets take two of Clara’s attributes (no sniggering at the back there)
She looks after children. Even as a meta reference to ‘being’ the show, she looks after the kids.
She dies more than once.

So who else in the show looks after the kids, and has died more than once…?

Well, Strax of course – he’s gene-spliced himself to produce magnificent quantities of lactic fluid to look after babies and kids, and ‘died’ in AGMGTW.

Clara is Strax!!

my god its so obvious it’s almost a spoiler!

(though of course, this could apply to Rory too…. could Clara be Rory?)

;¬)

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btw – that’s not to say I haven’t had a plethora of other bonkers theories and will gladly grab back into the bag to wave them, should any even remotely make an appearance!!

;¬)

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Hi @confuseus,
Looks like @juniperfish and I are thinking along similar lines!

I have Clara as being in the Tardis when it explodes, sprinkling her across time. We’re watching the ‘original’ and they ‘remember’ stuff from these adventures (milk, eggs, chin…). We encountered them before we encountered the ‘original’ so are seeing Clara out of sequence.

I also have the Doctor’s name being the password to the Timelock. My guess was that he set up the Silence to guard the Timelock for him – the perfect sentries – whoever finds it forgets instantly.
If his name is uttered and opens the Timelock, the Time Lords and Daleks will escape and reap havoc.
Thus everyone wants him to not open the Timelock (even the Daleks, as at least some are not in the Timelock and could do without the TL’s!).

So….. no one wants the Dr to fall…..

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I must say, I love Starkey as Strax (more than just the character of Strax if that makes sense).
And the 3 of them would make a great short series (not sure it has legs for lots of adventures but maybe).

But, I don’t remember which interview it was, but when the interviewer asked Moffatt about Starkey, there was a… well, it felt as though Moffatt didn’t like the fact that Starkey had taken the role out of the hands of the writer. He ad libs, he’s naturally comedic…. but maybe just my imagination.
Just felt that Moffatt would only allow backing a spin off under duress…. (public campaign anyone?)

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“morning” all! (ah, we’re all a bit timey-wimey here…).

Loved the episode! And you’ve all mentioned the great stuff I liked (as well as a lot lot more as ever!).

May I just say though, that Gatiss has now taken 2 deep nods to “Horror Express” a film I mentioned in relation to Cold War.
In Crimson Horror we have the red monster, but also the belief that “the last image seen, is retained on the retina” (which is why they dig up the prehistoric monster in Horror Express).

Now, if I knew more about that film, and hadn’t walked out of the room in deep fright at the tender age of 6(?) then I’d probably put it in the spoilers for the next Gatiss script!

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as for the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah underspin lob…..

Beautiful Zelda????!!!?????

are you serious????!!!!???

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right.

@scaryb – its late (ok ok I know we now have a follow-the-sun participation here but as with the Tardis – its relative!).

But….
Sister Rosetta Tharp – Godmother of Rock!
yep, that is one awesome woman!

All I can do as a return is a bit lazy (like a forehand smash) as you’ll know this but… like a forearm smash here is a return of the same song but I give you the greatest gospel singer of all time – Mahalia Jackson at Newport 1958.

And yes – it was raining!

http://www.wat.tv/video/mahalia-jackson-mat4_2fgqp_.html

(better quality than Youtube but turn it fully up!).
great pianist too!
(this is also on the magnificent film Jazz on a Summer’s Day – Newport ’58)

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ok ok, late to the party but wow!

not sure I can reply to each of you properly tonight, but you’ve made me hunt YouTube etc for stuff tonight even though I desperately needed an early night!!

I have sooooooooooooo many other tracks to try to return with (Ball & Chain??!!!???? the version I have in my head is from a Real Summit Meeting CD I have, but this is a different live Big Mama Thornton version I’m hearing for the first time as I type this!! what a voice!!!).

and ScaryB – Great female voices in music….. oooh now THERE’s a thread!! I have loads…….
another time!!

but for now, the track I’ll try to embed is another I’ve heard for the first time due to the posts above and me looking for tracks I know via YouTube (ie not finding what I wanted but discovering new stuff when I should be in bed!).

This is a good place to start for the trippy psychedelic rock/trippy vibe (but not what you might think).

but below is a live thing I found of the same band which, if you give it a minute-and-a-bit of the ‘intro-setup’ (yeah – kinda Moffatt-esque), the actual piece makes a tiny bit more sense, although try the first link for an album track that is far easier to get into.

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hmmm…. ruminates….. [gotcha]

so, the next Doctor as far as I can tell from this forum is either going to be:

a) Black
b) Forty-ish
c) Female
d) a fish

or a combination of the above.

hmm…… regurgitates further……

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A(my) R(iver) C(lara) of Infinity?

Omega??!?

Although I’m reminded @bobbingbird of the story that people (like us??!?) surmised that HAL from 2001 A Space Odyssey was one step ahead of IBM (H – A – L).

which (surprisingly??!!?) was nonsense!!

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ah – Dalek meme.

well, a few I had in mind have gone but…. to carry on the egg theme….

“Ov-ul-ate!

OV-U-LATE!”

[ahem]

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btw – if it is an illumination that Clara has seen in the History of the Time War, then yet again we have “paintings” being important….

as for why it falls open on that page…. well, a well thumbed page will always fall open on it (he says covering over any dramatic license of Clara having enough time to scour all the Books in the Library!!)

btw#2 – When Clara says “…in a tiny corner..” she might just mean “in a tiny corner of that bloomin’ enormous Library”.

sigh… very tired and no new insights (but lots of nodding as I’ve been reading through!).

I’m just glad the red/blue isn’t connected to Bluebeard and that Clara doesn’t stumble into the wrong room….

[eek! waayyyy too dark!!]

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for exploded but frozen things, here’s what sprang to mind for me (but has nothing to do with the series per se or even bonkers theories)!

Cornelia Parker’s Cold Dark Matter – an Exploded View

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its a while back now (busy thread!), but just wanted to say thank you to @whohar for your collected list of theories in post #7140

for me its:
1d (though I was once a 1e and 1p via poor anagramming)
2a although also like 2c; 2f (my Silence theory which may be connected to 3b) which is all rather opaque to anyone reading this but does give me the chance to also thank you for one of my favourite quotes from a post:

“one parent is dead and the other is plastic.”

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@haveyoufedthefish – oh yes!

Like it – you’ve done well neatly summing it up there (confirmation bias be darned!).

the Dr’s burnt version protecting his name is indeed a reason for ‘zombie attack’ rather than ‘reaching out for help’ as other ‘zombies’ may have been doing.

As said before, if this Clara is flung back in time, she’ll have echoes of recent memories (big chin, ostentatiously-drunk-milk, eggs) and these are then remembered in AotD, etc.

Hi @timeloop – yes, there’s been much musing on his different ages (suggested by how long he’s been in the Tardis). I’ll admit I haven’t a clue – I can imagine the nightmare of continuity between old Who and Nu-Who but these ages have been wobbly in the last series!

I’ll leave it to smarter people on here to tell us both!!

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btw – if we’re looking for eggs then there were two pretty key ones in this episode.

I’d try to embed the images, but they might bust the site so I’ll link instead (to official BBC site, production artwork for the Big Friendly Button and then the Room beyond value)

(apologies if already posted but didn’t see mentions of both yet)

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y’know, if you have a Tardis that is ‘infinite’ then there might be a single Eye of Harmony that all Tardises can have ‘within’ them, in much the same way as different rooms having a window on the same sun.

It being a Tardis its a bit more 4D and so appears ‘in’ the Tardis but is a single sun; a bit like the eye of the storm.

ah well….

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@bluesqueakpip – Roger Moore as a future Doctor????!?!!??

YOU’RE MESSING WITH MY MIND!

no, I think it was sadder that it wasn’t wild!

[sob]

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not sure if this is the right thread, but….

I predict in tonight’s episode (JttCotT) we will see a white goose!

.

Though hopefully not a guilty Doctor!

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the scary thing is….. I’m piscean, so @juniperfish‘s avatar has an odd effect on me…

[snaps out of it]

darn – I think the fish have an equivalent to the telepathic pathweb.

yep…..

.

a fishnet

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he he @Iamnotafishiamafreeman – and a fine memory I’m sure it is!
(and I guess kinda the point of this thread…!)

Now, @juniperfish, my return to Starman is a weak gag, a Dr Who link, and a band I know you like:

yep – Roxy Music and Casanova

I’ve been looking for the album version but the only one is ironically a barred one similar to your original Starman link!

ah well, those music industry idiots miss the point again…

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ah – was going to send you the URL @juniperfish, but the Edit function went away (been re-editing posts recently – great feature!).

Must’ve run out of time as I was looking for the “Message” feature (I’ve never used), to send you the URL when I found it worked (its to the totp footage).

hey ho – what I do need to do though is figure out a return!

great choon!

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hmmm….. yep – that link won’t embed like others do….

[mulls]

actually – the link isn’t working (video taken down?)

I can try and find another for you @juniperfish but I don’t know which version you were linking to – I’m guessing top of the pops?)

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hey @zaphod – Completely agree – this is a lovely space.

(say it quietly, but I think I love the theorising more than watching the show!!).

;¬)

Can’t wait to hear your first bonkers theory (or musical memory – yep, there’s threads on all sorts here!)

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Hi guys,

Completely agree as to spoilers (I think I’m even more paranoid about them than anyone!).

There was a question as to how to create space in posts, or somehow ‘hide’ posts on the spoiler thread.

I don’t think just hitting Return a lot is respected by WordPress, so I tend to use pointless full stops.

.

.

.

.

.

Not sure how this would hide anything though – you’d still have to scroll past it, but….

The other brilliant suggestion someone here had months ago, was to colour the type White. Hidden in plain sight! But can’t see a way to do it…

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hiya – skim reading.

Is the new theory that the Doctor is a biscuit?

(trying to keep up)

😉

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erm, @rob – not sure if you’re still interested, but I have another “new foe of the Doctor”.

I’m pretty sure that the Sontarans were originally meant to be a scary war-mongering big-bad.
In Nu-Who that’s mellowed somewhat, to being a bit more funny/dangerous (though I am a huge fan of Strax).

However, how about introducing something that represents the true horrors of war?
As we know, the Sontarans are based on the ‘nobility’ of war. ‘Glorious’ battle and death.
But war is not really like that.

A Sontaran would never stoop to massacre innocents, rape, pillage, torture people simply to spread fear, and generally do what happens in all wars – attack the support networks of armies.

What if the Sontarans had created a beast that did this ‘dirty work’ of war?

‘Dogs-of-war’. An amoral species, capable of anything they’re ordered to do.

In itself, a ‘nasty’ (rather than a ‘big-bad’), that could even scare the Doctor.
And, as its so ‘anti-glorious battle’, it would have been hidden/forgotten by the Sontarans as a bad idea (an embarrassment).

However, if severed from Sontaran control for an extended period of time (eg left to fight a battle the Sontarans forgot), one of them could even start to wonder if all this terror made sense.

It could even become a companion that learns humanity (Leela-style)…

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Hi @vizier – you could try this –

As you know, use the “@[name]” so they get an email and think “ooh.. what’s that?” but I reckon you’re thinking “my reply will be weirdly 37 comments and 2 pages away from what I’m commenting on – even they won’t know what the hell I’m on about!” then I can only think of using a link to their post.

eg it was great that Juniperfish’s request to @craig was taken on.

(using the numbers on the top right of the post as the link).

But there may be better ways – just can’t think of one that other people can see what’s being commented on!

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I’m with you @phaseshift.

Don’t weaken.

Whishtfish would also lead to more spittle than “HTPBDT” (or “Huhtuh-ber-tuh-bra..” as it goes in my head…)

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y’know (this is a massive aside) I should show the designers I work with this blog, for them to appreciate how sometimes their work is analysed.

all too often “erm, i erm well on the left seemed better and blue was y’know thingy’s colour wasn’t it?” is what you get.

This would raise their game….

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ah well that’s a pain. a finely written reply to @wolfweed is lost to the ether as my laptop decided to shut down.
And no, this doesn’t mean the rewrite will be better.

[sigh]

So, Wolfweed apologies, I’ll try to remember the wit, but I know the songs at least (and if you’ve ever read a reply of mine, losing the wit may be actually preferable!)

Kid Creole and metal – can’t find one track to link them, so instead I’ll try the original Dropout (sans Blues Brothers).

However, Kid Creole does end with some rather good sax so… I’ll reply properly with some sax (god I did that better the first time).
Although I seem to remember the band (hey Phaseshift I’m doing memories!) doing it better on Jools Holland, I can’t find a link so instead, although live I think there’s more energy in their live performance on Jools, I’ll go with this example of their driving brilliance:

very saxy.

Live they really shine, but not for the first time you wanna hear them (unless I could find a killer performance!). [if you follow that link, the thin saxophonist is the one you want to wait for… but stil, I’m sure there are even better examples if only I trawled away from yuotube…)

Its one of the few times (maybe Art Blakey) where its so obvious the drummer drives and spurs the band (though I’m sure it happens a lot elsewhere more subtly).

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@haveyoufedthefish – look, you’re getting silly.

next you’ll be saying that Clara’s deaths are all the fault of the Cartman Masterplan.

.

“oh my god – they killed Clara!”

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@haveyoufedthefish – if it isn’t a dalek giving themselves a black(stalk)eye then the universe is a far far colder place than it was yesterday.

you’re having rather a good evening methinks!

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hey @htpbdet

haven’t said yet, but hope you’re feeling better.

(btw – is it just me or when people say your name in their heads, is there quite a bit of mental spittle in the inner ear?)

anyway, in terms of the Doctor’s name, well, I’d hardly want to point you to my earlier post (yeah obviously I would otherwise why the link??) but, erm…. its unlikely, but still.

actually I think that post was me flushing-the-tanks of theories I hadn’t yet put out there, but realised that the series was staring agains so I might as well shoot them off before actual episodes made them irrelevant (ie speculation is far more interesting!).

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@juniperfish – of course!!!

I missed it before, but how about its actually 11 Tardis’ piloted by 11 Matt Smiths – each of the Doctors crashing into each other!!

@ardaraith – erm…..

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a tad late replying, but I’ll try forlornly to pong back great pings(!) so…

@janetteb – Ghost Town – yep, absolute classic! Almost perfect pop(?) with a political message.
Now, in deference to @bluesqueakpip, I had thought to pong back a political song which is just amazing in either version but instead will try a return which links a bunch of previous stuff – cover versions, the Fall, and ghosts (keeping it who related!)….

yep its

(sorry @phaseshift – few memories of this, except this was an early intro to the Fall, yet I was still amused/ bemused by the ferocity of the cup throwing from the crew at Smith, as he walked in front of the wall!!

btw I’ve just discovered that the embed only seems to work for youtube. I tried a better quality muzu.tv version url and it just had the URL as a link (similar to what happened when @juniperfish was trying to embed).
Just saying in case Juniperfish was still struggling to embed the video player… anyway, for a ‘better quality version’ of Ghost in my House there’s the link (though the Fall were hardly ever about recording quality!

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enjoying this!

;¬)

and agree as to following the bonkersness in as few places as possible (I use the Recent Posts on the right but have missed stuff when we’ve been particularly active on multiple threads!)

oh, and @craig, you’re absolutely right to [cough] desire lines [cough] start delineating paths when you see them.

😉

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ah @bobbyfat and @shazzbot – the well was the ‘black hole’ timey wimey thing I think (which as @bobbyfat rightly says is on that exact spot).

While I’m at it – @bobbyfat really liking your interpretation.

erm, not much to add but really liked it!

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@phaseshift – you think you’ve got too many balls to return! I want to reply to everyone’s posts and I’m deluged!!

And there’s so much fun over on Hide, its a bit of an aside to come here. No doubt midweek will mean a bit more musical activity as we wind down from Hide and before we gear up for JttCotT!!

so….

I won’t link to my first bought single (which I think was Money for Nothing by Dire Straits). There is just nothing cool or nostalgic or even particularly good about that song.

As you demanded ‘memories’ with the music (and for cuteness) I was once told by my mum, that when I was a toddler and my brother just a bit older, he had to be in eyesight of her or he’d cry. However I was fine in my cot, if she just stuck a stack of LPs on the gramaphone arm and they’d just play, one after the other. On being told and more-than-slightly proud of myself (though I actually don’t remember it happening) I asked what music would have been playing to the 2-3yr old me.

Not so cool, is all the Irish albums (eg Jimmy Shand etc).
However, one was Orange Blossom Special by Johnny Cash which I’ll take (even though I’m only fond of this live version):

btw – has anyone else ever said how much Mark E Smith looks like Johnny Cash?

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btw @badwolf, @haveyoufedthefish – I kinda prefer your outlandish-but-poetic-more-scientifically-accurate take on Clara.

[sigh]

.

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and @haveyoufedthefish – JLC is smaller on the outside.

mainly.

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